A lot was made of the new Korg PA5x Arranger on this forum so, as no one has mentioned it so far, I thought I would start this thread about the forthcoming flagship arranger from Ketron called the Ketron Event.
So far, Ketron has only released this video teaser:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igss1qU9_8c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igss1qU9_8c)
* Professional Arranger. 76 half-weighted keys keyboard.
* New dual processor
* 128 Notes polyphony. Top quality Orchestral Sounds. 2 Voices ( 3 Sounds each )
* Performance. User Voice, User Style. Registrations.
* 3 Groove Section3, with new Loops and Midi Patterns
* New Digital Drawbars are back.
* 4 x DSP Effects. External DSP controls with potentiometers.
* More than 400 Styles. Full Audio Arrangements, featuring Live Drums, Real Bass and Real Chords, Live Guitars and 5 Midi Chords. 3 Lower Voices.
* Phrase Recording. Midi Song recording.
* User Sample Editor with 32 Splits, Stereo samples, up to 4 Layers
Other than the above highlights listed on this teaser, Ketron has not yet released any futher details on specs and features, but it has been inferred that it contains 'exciting' new creativity features.
To this right of the keyboard, there is a collection knobs which give real-time physical control of a number of DSP effects. i dont kno why this has any thing to do with Genos
It has everything to do with the Genos. Basic business principle.
Competition makes a company great...
The more TOTL arrangers, the better 😀!!
why on Earth has this got any thing to do with genos >:(
Technics and Rowland Discontinued their Arranger Keyboard lines
as sales were very poor.
Yamaha will do the same, as creating new build keyboards
for production line is very expensive, when Arranger sales are poor.
... in example 'Chat about other brands'. Think it got thumbs down...
Technics and Rowland Discontinued their Arranger Keyboard lines as sales were very poor.
Yamaha will do the same, as creating new build keyboards for production line is very expensive, when Arranger sales are poor.
Genos is due for DiscontinuedTrue. Genos 1 would be discontinued when Genos 2 comes out 😉.
Genos is due for DiscontinuedDear @Genosmusic, nobody knows if you are right and you don't know either. Since you just signed up and made your first post, you might know that everyone (including myself) yells every now and then. I suspect most are saying this out of 'frustration' or 'disappointment' because Yamaha hasn't communicated with its customers for so long and some of them are getting impatient. Understandable. Of course you are free to mention such 'certain' statements in your post. There are plenty of those in this forum. Is that bad or do I find that disturbing? No, as far as I'm concerned: it's part of the game and sometimes adds some color to the discussion. After all, it's not about earth-shattering topics and every forum member is perfectly capable of finding their own. It only becomes more credible if you cite a verifiable legitimate source, which you probably won't have. The future usually shows which speculations have become truths. ;)
Genos is due for Discontinuedi dont thinks so this is false >:(
The Ketron EVENT looks nice and impressive....
However, If it sounds like it looks like, perhaps it might become a commercial success...
Very interesting, though pretty moot point for us "USA" players since ketron has no market presence over this side of the pond.Heck, I never thought of that. I assume it's the same in Canada? No dealers? They could ship us one but the cost of shipping would double the price of the keyboard, nor would we able to demo it.
Very interesting, though pretty moot point for us "USA" players since ketron has no market presence over this side of the pond.
Apparently it looks like Yamaha will announce a new high end arranger soon,Don't know how you deduce that, it might or might not turn out to be the case, but there is currently zero evidence to support such a statement.
Kind regards. JH
And will you be the first to buy one Jeff as you have written so many hopes that it comes out soon.;D
;D
But I'm somewhat concerned that what we're hearing may be .mp3 (compressed) audio not .wav (uncompressed) audio....not to mention that YouTube applies its own compression. They need to get into the modern world of sound and make sure every video's audio track plays back at about the same level. One minute, you're hearing a low signal, the next minute, you're killed with high dB!!
I challenge everyone above the age of 30, to recognize the difference between wav and hi quality mp3 just by listening.This.
NEW VIDEO https://youtu.be/u3Ab71Rf77U
This.
A 128 kilobit per second constant bit rate MP3 may be discernible from a wav audio file if you do a direct A/B comparison. But 192 and 256 kbps MP3s are almost impossible to distinguish from the original wav. And 320 kbps sounds exactly as the wav, even if you have golden ears.
Maarten
💡 I really like the Event from what I've heard and seen so far but I'll wait and see what Yamaha has to offer on the Genos successor. I'm hoping the Genos 2 will have 256-note polyphony across the entire range of the keyboard no matter what section you play from i.e. Preset/Legacy or Expansion.
All the best,
Mike
Isn't polyphony a moot point when you're dealing with audio styles? A minimal amount of polyphony would be adequate for the right hand playing function?
..But, of course, you can record/listen at a higher bit rate i.e. 24-bit @192kHz, etc...-yes, one can do that, but the quality will still be the same (as coming from keyboard). In short: quality of the sound depends on source. We can't change that afterwards by increasing recording parameters.
Mike,
Do you have definite release information for Genos 2 soon, or like all of us, hoping/guessing?
:)
Uday
Another great demo of breathy Sax sounds from Ketron Event.This video has been removed. Anyone else able to see it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE1G7Gfz_Ww
I don't believe so.
New Ketron video ...
Jazz players in a keyboard
https://youtu.be/QpzKndCMOkg (https://youtu.be/QpzKndCMOkg)
Interesting! I looked for the video online and couldn't find it. What would make AJ remove the uploaded file? I guess some people heard it before it was yanked and supposedly it sounded great. Did anyone that listened to it before it was deleted notice any anomaly in the recording? If that's the case, maybe AJ decided to redo it. It's the weekend so maybe he was stretched for time and had other commitments. Or it could be that Ketron Italy told him to slow down and let them trickle out more slowly. FWIW, most keyboard manufacturers i.e. the Big Three, Casio, Kurzweil, Nord, etc., when they have a new product ready for release they'll usually leak some info about the product to notify the public, and then comes the official announcement and we're all inundated with a LOT of information, demos, videos, etc. Not Ketron. ;D Anyway, since most of us haven't heard the "Breathy Tenor Sax" demo yet, I thought I'd post a demo of the Genos "Breathy Tenor Sax" in action. It's a rendition of a Sonny Rollins/John Coltrane number from the 1950s.Hello.
Genos S.Art2 Breathy Tenor Sax (https://www.dropbox.com/s/s4lafokustzd9ob/S.Art2%20Breathy%20Tenor%20Sax.wav?dl=0)
All the best,
Mike
Hi Sokratis 1974 :Sorry my friend but this is a HUGE MYTH.
Your new Event ( Ketron ) has Audio styles and voices only.
A nice looking arranger with good sounds ....
BUT ....
No Midi styles, no Midi voices might be a huge problem to convince Yamaha customers, IMHO.
Best regards, JH
While the short Ketron Event clip sounds very good, I am very cautious with Audio Styles. It's very inflexible. I love MIDI styles, where you can change the sound of a style track.
I made songs with the Audio drums on the Tyros 5 and now I can only play them without drums on the Genos. I am sooooo glad Yamaha stepped away from Audio Drums and started using Revo drums! These are the best of both worlds: they sound very realistic, yet are still 100% MIDI and you can do whatever you want with them.
Same for the voices: I would rather have Super Articulation than audio phrases. Full control, 100% MIDI.
Maarten
Hey Sokratis 1974 :Dear Jeff.
I refer to Maartenb's above mentioned comments.
Best regards, JH
Thank you for your reply, Sokratis 1974 ! :)I don't know dear Jeff. I hope soon.. :)
When can the public expect the Event spec's, price(s) etc. ?
Best regards, JH
Thanks for that list, Sokratis. Many of those features are what we can only do in a DAW program. I'd buy that keyboard just for the live drum editor - something that was totally missed on the Genos! Yamaha has a lot of homework to do, although it wouldn't surprise me if they have it all set to go already 😁.
Questions
1- Is there any mention of seamless sound switching between registrations?
2- Will the Event be available in Canada?
Hey Lee :Exactly!! You are right dear Jeff.
As mentioned by Sokratis, he has signed an NDA with his employer, Ketron Italy. Am I right, Sokratis ?
It is obvious he cannot answer ( our ) questions ( for the time being ), I guess.
Best regards, JH
I hope soon.. :)
2- Will the Event be available in Canada?Lee- I don’t know if things have moved forward with Ketron, but when I was interested in one some years back, all they had was a very loose arrangement of part time local representatives working from home. Not employees. The guy they had in Houston was pretty useless, not knowledgeable and couldn’t even play worth a darn.
Sokratis' answer, as far as Event's Midi styles etc. are concerned, is confusing to me.I wasn't specifically referring to Event Midi Styles, but I'm writing in my post (Ketron Midi Styles)
BUT ...
I am respecting his NDA and his other obligations.
No problem. Future will tell.
Regards, JH
If 'soon' have the same meaning today as when Ketron 'leaked' the arrival of Audya, we'll probably see an updated PA5X and a Genos successor (if any) before Event is out to the stores. ;D ;D ;DHi Jonny
Was going to replace my lovely SD1 that I sold, but the looooooong wait brought the G70 in as replacement......
Must admit I am not keen on the look of it as it seems quite bulky to me. No mention if it has a touch screen. Not very impressed.Hi EileenL
Lee- I don’t know if things have moved forward with Ketron, but when I was interested in one some years back, all they had was a very loose arrangement of part time local representatives working from home. Not employees. The guy they had in Houston was pretty useless, not knowledgeable and couldn’t even play worth a darn.Hi Mike.
They have AJ who seems to be Mr North America for Ketron, whom I met at Don Mason’s get together in Shreveport. AJ is a nice guy, based I think somewhere in the north east, and he is pretty expert, and a fair player. But I wasn’t sure if even he was a Ketron employee or just a gig player who represented them as a sideline. Mind you he did talk as if he had some input into Ketron design/development.
I think if you are interested in a Ketron, you would have to contact AJ, and find out if they have anyone in your area. But even if they do, when he would have a keyboard to bring to your home to try (apparently that’s how they work) is anyone’s guess. I think it’s likely that Sokratis is one of these local representatives, so he has an inside track.
Basically, although the Ketron Audya seemed a great keyboard in many regards, their distribution and support network appeared pretty primitive. Reminded me of selling Tupperware. So good luck if you want to pursue it.
Mike
Sokratis - You are in Greece I believe, so I am guessing you work from your home, maybe as a contractor on testing/product evaluation and feedback.Yes dear Mike. I live and work in Greece (Crete) and I am Greek. For Ketron, yes, I work from my home. Now with the internet everything is possible. Unfortunately I cannot answer your question because I am not competent in this matter. Perhaps it would be good to send an email to Ketron Italy.
Can you tell us what the North America sales distribution looks like for Ketron? Don’t think that information would cut across your NDA.
Mike
Hey Lee :Understandable. Thanks guys.
As mentioned by Sokratis, he has signed an NDA with his employer, Ketron Italy. Am I right, Sokratis ?
It is obvious he cannot answer ( our ) questions ( for the time being ), I guess.
Best regards, JH
Lee- I don’t know if things have moved forward with Ketron, but when I was interested in one some years back, all they had was a very loose arrangement of part time local representatives working from home. Not employees. The guy they had in Houston was pretty useless, not knowledgeable and couldn’t even play worth a darn.Okay, thanks Mike. I think the European market is of the greatest interest to most arranger makers, including Yamaha. In Canada, we're always last to receive new stock items. Kind of makes us feel like bottom feeders 🐟.
They have AJ who seems to be Mr North America for Ketron, whom I met at Don Mason’s get together in Shreveport. AJ is a nice guy, based I think somewhere in the north east, and he is pretty expert, and a fair player. But I wasn’t sure if even he was a Ketron employee or just a gig player who represented them as a sideline. Mind you he did talk as if he had some input into Ketron design/development.
I think if you are interested in a Ketron, you would have to contact AJ, and find out if they have anyone in your area. But even if they do, when he would have a keyboard to bring to your home to try (apparently that’s how they work) is anyone’s guess. I think it’s likely that Sokratis is one of these local representatives, so he has an inside track.
Basically, although the Ketron Audya seemed a great keyboard in many regards, their distribution and support network appeared pretty primitive. Reminded me of selling Tupperware. So good luck if you want to pursue it.
Mike
Understandable. Thanks guys.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Thanks, Christopher 😉.
JOE AMOEDO'S MUSIC, Niagara Falls Canada (905-371-3109)
PINO LORUSSO Terrebonne, Quebec, Canada (Tel:- 438-580-7182 - PinoLorusso@Hotmail.com)
Lee, these might have more info.
Can we please MOVE this thread to the KETRON part of our forum?
Thank you,
Drake
This.Hi Marten
A 128 kilobit per second constant bit rate MP3 may be discernible from a wav audio file if you do a direct A/B comparison. But 192 and 256 kbps MP3s are almost impossible to distinguish from the original wav. And 320 kbps sounds exactly as the wav, even if you have golden ears.
Maarten
Most of us will think twice before spending such an amount of money, IMO. ::)
I wouldn't be so sure about that, Jeff. If a new keyboard is important to someone, they'll find ways to have it.
Every month I put €60 in my Keyboard savings account. After three years, there is €2,160 in that account. Combined with the sale of my present keyboard (whether it was a Tyros 4, 5 or Genos) I have enough to buy the next Yamaha keyboard.
So if a Genos 2 offers important improvements (whenever it comes I don't care; I'm still thrilled with my Genos), I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
Maarten
After hearing the PA5X and Event, for me to put out that kind of money to upgrade my Genos, Yamaha would need to be leaps and bounds above these two competitors. While I know they're capable, the Genos 2 cannot be a simple "refresh" of the Genos 1 the way Tyros 4 was to Tyros 5 and earlier. That idea will not cut it in this new world of arrangers 😬. The technological demand alone is for a HUGE upgrade.
Good points, Jeff and Eileen. I agree with Eileen. Yamaha will be last to this party but they'll bring the best house warming gift 🎹! A few weeks after Genos 2 hits the market, the other two will be saying, "Why didn't we think of that??"Then I hope for a Genos with a 61,5 keys ... nobody has that yet ;D ;D
I have the impression your dealer probably wanted to inform you KORG will launch a PA5X in 3 key versions : 61, 76 and 88 ... or am I completely wrong ?That's what I thought, and bear in mind that nobody has talked about a 61/76/88-Genos, before the PA5X was released.
May be it works for Korg because they have no SX equivalent.
I understand your argument, Ton but ... keep in mind that each Yamaha dealer ( all over the world ) has signed an NDA ( = Non Disclosure Agreement ).Yes, you are completely wrong ;)
That means each Yamaha dealer is absolutely not allowed to give any new product information before these products are officially announced and/or launched by Yamaha.
I have the impression your dealer probably wanted to inform you KORG will launch a PA5X in 3 key versions : 61, 76 and 88 ... or am I completely wrong ?
Best regards, JH
Korg have the PA-hundreds series, like PA600, PA700, PA1000.Yes, but these models are previous generation and quite a bit of a downgrade compared to the new and very impressive PAX5. Whereas the SX900 was not all that far behind the Genos in overall performance at the time of its introduction. Yes there were some feature differences, but it was pretty close to being a Genos 'mini with 61 keys and a significant price difference.
Maarten
Cannot understand people wanting a 61 note Keyboard when you can have a 76 note keyboard.Neither can I and Tyros sales demonstrated that most people think this way. Some people claim that size makes a difference, but the size difference is so little that it's hard to imagine how that could matter to more than a very few.
It is a matter of having a choice, each for his/her own. How many sizes are there for a smartphone, a laptop, a tv, a computer monitor, a car, a tablet etc. etc.?? All those products can do the basic wherefore it is made.A valid point but you're comparing apples to oranges. When it comes to keyboards it boils down to how many octaves you need. The extra octave provided with the 76 key version requires very little space and yet offers so much more. Trust me - I would have to drastically alter the sounds I provide to the various bands I play in if I only had the 61 key version! In fact, it would be quite impossible to do some of the things I do now.
Genos is due for DiscontinuedTotal Rubbish >:(
I must admit a fantastic guitar sound on demoi dont think so ;)
I think that a new Genos will be out shortly 8)
Must admit I am not keen on the look of it as it seems quite bulky to me. No mention if it has a touch screen. Not very impressed.Same here Eileen ill stick with what we kno ;)
Yes I agree,Very true
If someone really want's a new model, they will find the means to buy it. After all there are no pockets in shrouds.
I doubt that any dealers anywhere know a thing about a new Genos. Yamaha are very strict on who knows what and only essential staff will know anything and will risk losing their jobs if things are released before time. Dealers are the last to know anything about new launches.
Looks to me like the sax part has been pre recorded so that you can play along with it. You can do this on most keyboards. Also the saxes on Genos are every bit as good if not better.
Of course they do. Most samples used in keyboards are sampled live from the actual instruments to give them their authenticity.
Nah... A machine could never compete with a Real-Live Saxaphone playerVery true. You can praise any keyboard as much as you like but, it's fantasy to think a keyboard can match a real sax player.
perhaps you havn't heard any live ?
Very true. You can praise any keyboard as much as you like but, it's fantasy to think a keyboard can match a real sax player.
You can go on YouTube and listen to sax players and think, "whatever possessed Yamaha to sample that one"
I had a good friend who played Sax & Clarinet. He wouldn't claim to be the best in the world BUT, no keyboard could match his sound.
So, do you know whether the SAX part is recorded or is it jamming live following the chords?
If it is live, that is an incredible feature!
:)
Uday
The more I listen to the Ketron Event the more I like it. Here is a new live demonstration of the KETRON EVENT - Sexy Ambient Sax played live. Short, but sweet.Impressive! Like I said earlier, Yamaha has lots of work to do, unless they already have something in the wings that will blow the Event out of the water. It wouldn't surprise me in the least.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5pD_dmm1t0
Best,
Mike
Impressive! Like I said earlier, Yamaha has lots of work to do, unless
they already have something in the wings that will blow the Event out of the water.
It wouldn't surprise me in the least.
I agree that the technology is on the plateau phase but
what Ketron has done with those live riffs
embedded in the style sand triggered by the chords is definitely new, so there is always something more. And there are things implemented on some models but not on others , like the visual piano room on the CVPs/. And then there are some things that are just not yet right on the current models - like smooth voice transitioning, final mixing on recording, that should be addressed.
Mike
I agree that the technology is on the plateau phase but what Ketron has done with those live riffs embedded in the style sand triggered by the chords is definitely new...Incorrect. Band In a Box has been doing this with their MIDI and now Audio styles for almost 30 years. Ketron has simply integrated that idea into their latest arrangers.
What more can be done that hasnt been done already.Again, untrue. There is still a ton of room to improve voices and styles. The next big addition (hopefully) will be FAR better editing capabilities for styles, rather than, the primitive "teaser" editor that the Genos uses now. In a perfect world, they'd have it so we could edit on our computers, audition the newly edited style, and then save it to the Genos User drive. There are a boatload of people here who are equally qualified to create their own custom styles. All they need is a less clunky way to do it.
In a way , Arrangers have reached the end of the road.
Lee - I don’t hear this feature like as a customized style with nice audio loops. On a style the riffs repeat at the programmed intervals. It appears to me that what is happening here is different because the sax riffs on the Ketron are much more random than that.
Seems like some sort sort of smart algorithm that calls up very different phrases like a real sax player would as the chord sequence is played. It almost seemed like there were no repeats. Not something I have heard from an arranger before.
I am not familiar with Band in a Box.
Mike
Well I am sure all this talking about what may or may not happen is utterly useless. What will be will be. We will buy or we won't bye.
Much sooner read about what people are doing now with their currant keyboards.
Much more interesting.
Genosmusic - Lee tried to excuse you on the other thread but I repeat here what I said, you are are a nineteen year old being a smart ***. This is an 85 year old long time, well respected member you are addressing here.
We are very tolerant and respectful here, and I think maybe you don’t belong on this forum. I’m thinking about it.
Mike
My comment was made in general use and not aimed at anyone as an insult.
Trying to guess what or will not be on anything is utterly useless. We must wait and see what is on New Flagships and decide if it is what we want.
Why waste time daydreaming? Much better things in life to do.
My comment was made in general use and not aimed at anyone as an insult.Eileen, Of course you did not insult anyone , - to say Bob is utterly useless would be an insult, to say speculating or daydreaming is utterly useless is just a harmless opinion. Everyone - or maybe I should say every reasonable person - knows this. We can’t legislate for unreasonable people, but what we can do is not invite them to our house - or forum!
I really wish they'd specify what "other problems" are 😖!!
I excused you for not apologizing to me
for interpretating one of my comments incorrectly.
Lee Batchelor, had the intelligence to understand , and spoke up in my defence,
but your pride didnt allow you to do that.
--------------------
Now your allowing someones AGE to over ride insulting comments like :
UTTERLY USELESS
-----------------------------
Your right, i dont belong here,
As a Moderator , your judgements are Flawed.
.
I think I'm quite sensitive to audio quality... But I challenge everyone above the age of 30, to recognize the difference between wav and hi quality mp3 just by listening. Saying that, the problem is not mp3 format itself. It's more about the quality of audio source before converting to mp3 and what compression settings are used.My 1/2 cent
Youtube is recommending to use high audio quality for uploading, but not every Youtube uploader knows how to do it properly.
Just my 2 cents,
Bogdan
Nah... A machine could never compete with a Real-Live Saxaphone player
perhaps you havn't heard any live ?
...
Flac files are better than Mp3 they can be 800kbps plus.
Wav files are King.
...
What attention to a self-playing keyboard, is that what you want???
Did not know it was a " self playing keyboard " ! ;DHello Jeff
Sorry, I do not know what you mean.
Plse advise. Thanks JH
Soundphase - you have completely the wrong end of the stick here. The video you refer to was to demonstrate the quality of the voice on the Event, not that the Event is a self playing keyboard. Doesn’t matter whether it’s a midi or a style part or some other function that lets the keyboard play automated parts, the voice quality is the same, so it demonstrates it well. And neither was it posted by Jeff.I don’t like arranger demos where the player is not playing the main melodic part and the chords I hear. I always think someone is trying to deceive me.
The Event is no more a self playing keyboard than any other arranger. They all have some capability of playing parts or even full songs ‘by themselves’ either by styles, midis or other features. But their primary purpose is to be played. I assume you already have an arranger which has some or all of these features, so some level of self playing, even if you are driving. That’s what arrangers do.
Mike
Received a message this morning the Event/Ketron ( 76 n ) would cost approx. US$ 4,999.-- and supposedly available for sale in December 2022.
Listening to these short demo clips is fascinating to know its superb sounds, but I cannot find a full review of the KB, which would be great to get to know the ins and outs of it.Agreed on the price. I'm definitely waiting to hear Yamaha's response. Arrangers are getting way out of some peoples' price range. They used to be pricy but within grasp. I'm starting to wonder if my current Genos will be my last arranger. All I need is for Yamaha to fix my registration issue 👿!
MSRP $6000, street price of $5000 is quite sobering.
:)
Uday
http://ketronamerica.com/dealers.htmlThanks. I didn't think we had any dealers. The one in Niagara Falls is about 2.5 hours away from me.
This website lists multiple dealers of Ketron in the US including 2 in Canada.
This may be useful information to some.
:)
Have you heard/seen this video ?Great sounds. That's not the Event though. He's likely a good player. Just wish he'd actually play something. Thanks for the link, Jeff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxYRuchkqw4
JH
You are absolutely right, Lee.Hello.
Their worldwide distribution and their after sales' service have always been a serious issue.
Will that change soon ? Hard to believe, I guess.
In Europe Ketron most musicians know some of Ketron's products but I have no idea how important their market turnover is.
I have no clue how active they are in Asia but it would surprise me very much they are well known in this part of the world.
BUT ... IF the Event would become an attractive arranger keyboard for many pro giggers ( like you ) and home players, there might be found dealers in the USA and Canada.
Wishful thinking, I guess. ???
Perhaps, our friend SOCRATIS, ( member of this PSR Tutorial Forum and one of Ketron's present Event's developers ) could tell us how Ketron's worldwide distribution strategy will look like.
I am afraid he will never answer this question due to his employment contract obligations.
Best regards, JH
There are none in Canada as far as I can see. We can't audition one from a distributor - I don't think.
That is stopping me from purchasing.... I have been in touch with AJ ....I have did the math and it would be $7600 Canadian with taxes...and probably another $250 for Customs. So approximately $8000.00 Canadian all in !!!! WITHOUT TOUCHING THE KEYBOARD.... + 20% restocking fee........Agreed. That price is nuts. I'd wager Genos 2 won't get that high.
I need to play one before spending that kind of money !
Hello Canadian Friends :Great advice, as usual Jeff. I'm still willing to wait for Yamaha to reply with Genos 2. Meanwhile, despite the shortcomings of my Genos, it still works and sounds great. It's not like I can't gig anymore until Yamaha figures out my registration issue, which I doubt they will. I haven't heard from my support guy for two weeks 😣.
Paper is patient.
I absolutely agree with your concerns about purchasing a Ketron/Event in your country.
It is very risky to buy blindly such an unknown and expensive arranger keyboard in a region where this brand/model is barely to be found.
There is no musician in the whole world who will order a not thoroughly tested expensive instrument.
IMHO it might be wise to wait for the new high end Yamaha ( Genos2 ? ).
If it takes too long before Yamaha will launch a Genos'successor or ... if you do not like it ... there is now a very good Japanese alternative, at a reasonable price, right ? :)
Best regards, JH
When you are spending a lot of money you want to know what the company you are buying from has in the way of Tech support and after care services. We all know that Yamaha are top notch at this.
In the past I had very poor service from Korg and had to get in touch with the Managing Director to get my faults put right. I did not keep my Korg long after that.
Have never had dealings with Ketron and feel I don't want to risk dealings with the unknown.
I always say better the Devil you know than not.
Yamaha knows what they're up against. They are also experts at reverse engineering a competitor's product. If the Genos 2 is delayed by 6 months or a year so Yamaha can surpass the competition, so be it.
The Ketron Event does sound good and has some spiffy features to break up the monotony of auto-accompaniment. I have to go along with Mark (and others) as to North American (NA) sales, distribution and support infrastructure. It's kind of a weak sales climate for top-end arrangers in NA already -- not a good business climate for Ketron.
I do respect Ketron products, BTW.
All the best -- pj
I doubt that any dealers anywhere know a thing about a new Genos. Yamaha are very strict on who knows what and only essential staff will know anything and will risk losing their jobs if things are released before time. Dealers are the last to know anything about new launches.same here Eileen ;)
My Money is on 76 note only.
Good points. One thing is for certain - any company who wants to go against Yamaha in the music business had better "go big or go home." Yamaha has the support and dealer network in place over much of the world. Ketron is up against two issues: 1) Producing a superior product and 2) Getting it out there so people can try it out and perhaps buy it. There's no money in a product that just sits as inventory 🤣.
Fretted Products $1,891M
Pro Audio 853M
Wind Instruments 611M
Percussion 374M
Acoustic Pianos 307M
DJ Gear 264M
Digital Pianos 182M
Keyboard Synthesizer 159M
Portable Keyboards 127M
Stringed Instruments 125M
Electronic Player Pianos 100M
Keyboards under $199 41.3%
Keyboards over $199 58.7%
I think I posted this breakdown of USA sales (by dollar volume) once before:
Fretted Products $1,891M
Pro Audio 853M
Wind Instruments 611M
Percussion 374M
Acoustic Pianos 307M
DJ Gear 264M
Digital Pianos 182M
Keyboard Synthesizer 159M
Portable Keyboards 127M
Stringed Instruments 125M
Electronic Player Pianos 100M
Market data from 2019, source: NAMM. "Portable keyboards" is subdivided by retail value:
Keyboards under $199 41.3%
Keyboards over $199 58.7%
That's NAMMs methodology, not mine. :)
Compared to guitars, we're chump change. ;D
All the best -- pj
From that recent video about Ketron's new release, it sounds like they are using Band In A Box (BIAB) styling technology. For those who have never used this program, all you do is insert the basic chords in a song and BIAB generates the correct styling complete with stylistic chords. It can be Country, Jazz, Blues, you name it BIAB will do it. That, combined with what sounds like round robin styling, will make the Ketron a most formidable competitor to the PA5X and Genos 2. But there's more...
It's one thing to produce perfect sounds and styles on a new arranger. It's another thing to make the device usable. Many have criticized the PA5X operating system as being clunky and too tech orientated. This falls under the category of "usability." For the better part, the Genos is easy to use, other than the Style Editor being similar to a bull in China shop. If Korg and Ketron have produced a superior product than the Genos, that's one thing. If their OS system is clunky or too complicated, Yamaha has little to worry about. I'm sure Genos 2 will give these two other companies pause.
It is not realistic to think anything until a new keyboard is launched and the price is then known. Then it makes sense to talk about it. All this Will it Won't it Dose it Doesn't it gets you know where.Hi @Eleen, your reactions to this are predictable and are also appreciated. If people are annoyed by it, they can just skip it and not read it. But don't deprive the forum members for some 'daydreaming', it's just for fun for many. It doesn't harm anyone and it keeps the 'jeu' in a bit. Usually the 'having' is the end of the pleasure... happy daydreaming ;-)
Just enjoy what you have and produce some nice music. Let the forum get back to what it is supposed to do and help one another get the best from what we have and enjoy trying new things. I bet half the people on here have not used all of the functions on their Yamaha keyboards that they could.
It is not realistic to think anything until a new keyboard is launched and the price is then known.But it is launched and the price is known…… this thread is about the Ketron Event not the next Yamaha.
This thread has been posted on the Genos section and seems to be about three different keyboards Korg, Ketron and Genos. It is Jeff that mentions the price of new Genos which of course is not known.Ok, but where's that 'General Chit Chat' section? I assume you know the policy of the forum owner/forum moderators in this regard?
Of course, knowing what else is out there is of interest to some and there have been links posted for us to see.
I am not out to deprive anything from anyone, but I think this thread is now going round in ever decreasing circles and maybe should be moved to general chit chat.
Agreed, Roy. If your topic had little relevance to most of us, it wouldn't occupy six pages of forum space 😉.
I used Band In A Box about eight years ago and even that version was and still is far superior to any arranger.
I am merely listing EVERYTHING I can find above.
What I find amazing is that even though the PA5X is relative new, for every one video that Ketron makes, there are 10 that are professionally made for the PA5X.Fellow Canadian here 👍. The Event is a no go for me. Too much money for an unknown and unplayable keyboard before purchase. If L&M knows nothing about it, no one else will. I'm confident Yamaha's answer to the Event and 5X will be amazing. I'm willing to wait.
I know that Ketron is small compared to "Korg" but surely they could spend some money on marketing to at least compete with Korg.
I have a huge interest in the "Event" but I cannot play one, I cannot see one, I cannot touch one ..... So all that I have left is the few videos that I can find on Youtube. I just got back from "Long and Mcquade's" and there is absolutely no info of its existence on their main Site.
I have done the math and if you order from AJ or any other American Company, they will happily send you an Event for approximately $7500/8000 Canadian total ( $4999.00 + State Tax + Shipping (?) + Customs + exchange rate )
That is a lot of money to spend on a keyboard unseen.
I have saved and put aside some monies and I am ready to purchase. The only Boards that interest me are:
Ketron Event
Yamaha CVP 809
Korg 88 PA5X
I have owned the Ketron S7 keyboard, the Ketron SD90 module, and stll ownPls. could you explain what did you miss in the Ketron as you bought e.g. all those yamaha's, even a Genos. Why didn't stick with tfhe Ketron sec. Maybe only for the soundquality etc. in those mudules? Or..?
The Ketron SD40 module. In the past I have owned Korgs, Rolands, ane
All the Yamaha arrangers starting with the
PSR3000, The T4, T5, and the Genos. Believe
me when I tell you NOT ANY of those keyboards
even come close to producing the realistic instrument
sounds as do the Ketron products.
Deane
Ok, I have been performing music professionally for 65 plus years and am now 82 and very happily retired.
As I got older some of the equipment was to heavy to carry out to 5-6 gigs a week and carry back into the house
so I moved on to something I thought was lighter. I still use my Ketron SD40 module and it is awesome! I also
have a Yamaha PSR SX900. I did not like the Genus because of it's weird shape. One of the best arrangers I had
for gigs was a Korg MicroArranger but it broke and the cost of a repair was way more than it cost to buy one.
I still play 3-4 gigs each week and some days I use the SX900 and some the SD40. I was blessed to play next
to some of the best players around in the big band days and like I said, Ketron by far has the best realistic sounds
for instruments.
Now, this Is not to say all the others are not good arrangers because they are. It all depends on what each player's
personal real life performance experience is and how there personal tastes swing. None of the arrangers I purchased
sounded bad.
Hammer
...Apparently it was/is much more a weight problem than a sound quality issue.-what hammer is saying (the way I read his post) is: he sacrificed good sound for lighter SX900.
...Ketron's global market share has never been important compared to Yamaha's and even Korg's...Market share tells nothing about quality -it only tells it's more affordable. As far I could observe, Yamaha practically doesn't exist in professional music scene (big live concerts). There, only Yamaha's synthesizers can be seen, but the rest of the keyboards are mostly Korg, Roland, Nord... or even Casio.
Hi Guys :
I think I understand Deane's words better now. ;)
Apparently it was/is much more a weight problem than a sound quality issue.
Cheers, JH
As announced by Sokratis ( one of the Event's developers ), it is Ketron's intention to produce and sell ( in 2023 ? ) an Event module and a 61n light Event version.Hello.. So..
The 61n version will have another brand name and might be available in 2024, said Sokratis.
The Event Module ( without keybed of course ! ) will have exactly the same Event's features.
In the past Ketron produced the Audya4 ( an Audya5 module ).
The Audya4 has never been a commercial success in Belgium or in The Netherlands. No clew what the situation was in other countries.
The price difference between the Audya5 and the Audya4 was ( too ? ) small and musicians preferred the Audya5 ( with keybed ).
The Ketron history will repeat itself for the Event and its module, I guess.
As far as I know it ain't easy to sell a second hand expensive module. ???
JH
It is interesting how people "read into" other's post. Yes, for me the weight of TOTL keyboards became a problem. But there is another reason for my changes-PRICE! Regardless of quality of build, sounds, and styles there is not an arranger made by any company that is worth $5000.00 to me. There is a point at which it is just not worth it. Someone mentioned a possibility of an EVENT Module. Well, that would be awesome I am sure but at what price. Right now I am perfectly happy and well served by my PSR SX900 and my Ketron SD40 Module and see no reason to upgrade at today's prices. The bottom line is simple-does what you own provide the things you need for our gigs if you play out. Or, are you happy with your homebased setup and does it do all you need from it.Hi Dean, does this setup looks like you referring to (sx900 + sd40)?
Deane (Hammer)
Dear Sokratis :
Subject : Event 61n wrong information.
I feel very sorry and would like to offer my sincere apologies for mentioning your name, realizing now it were NOT your words.
It has never been my intention to hurt a real gentleman like you.
Best wishes, JH
...If Yamaha bring a new Genos out in two years time how much would the depreciation be by then!!!! :P
I've thought the same thing for a long time, Ton. Genos integration to Cubase is (to be polite) pathetic. When the Motif series first arrived, integration was possible only after listening to a one hour video on how to do it. Otherwise, you had to be a Yamaha software engineer to figure it out. This deficiency caused a ton (no pun intended) of flack to be fired at Yamaha. They responded by creating an app that configured everything for Motif users with the press of a button.Genos target market is "sit and play" players, very far from DAWs.
If more people complained about this serious lack of Cubase integration with the Genos, perhaps Yamaha would do something about it. I wouldn't hold your breath though. They still look upon the Genos as a living room keyboard, when in reality, it could be a full production tool.
HiHello.
I know it is 4900Euros
Here you have a friend comment from my country.
<<<At this price, the keyboard is a joke.
1GB for samplers?
As 1.5 are for extorting money from users, probably through the sound banks sold by them..
Then, in the digital age, is there no digital audio output?
not even at Output Analog, it doesn't say that they are balanced...
... not even at the entrances.
Even the Medeli AKX10, a Chinese product, has 256 polyphony.
1280 user sounds, means about 10 banks of 128, but with 1 GB of sample memory... if you can't combine the internal oscillators with the sampler ones, in 2 banks you've finished the sampler memory.
Ah, I was forgetting...
Now, in Genos, I have 38 packages of 128 users..
And I still have about 700-800mb free...
And 4 layers per user sound, again, it's a bad, amateurish joke.
On the Yamaha you have 32 stereo layers.
The sounds he boasts about are actually a kind of S.Articulation from Yamaha. Anyone who knows how the Saxophone sounds on the Genos, or other instruments with Articulation, what glissando, or other effects it has, understands what I'm saying.
2 simultaneous effects can be inserted as an insert on a style?
"1 Insert to Arranger chords, 1 Insert to Real Chord."
On Genos, I play all 8 tracks, you can even combine them.
Genos has 27 inset fx simultaneously. 27!!!
Genos is right, only Audio Style as drums, Ketron would also be bass.
They say it goes directly from the ssd (direct streaming), which would not load the sampler memory.
But also with Genos, Audio Style goes directly from usb or ssd.
I don't see anything written about sampler compatibility, not even with the old Ketron series.
What am I kidding?
On 2 Main out and 2 auxiliary (which from the description are actually 1 stereo)? But maybe I'm wrong and Aux 1 is a separate stereo output from Aux2.
Then we have L-R (Main), Ls-Rs (Aux1) and C-Sub (Aux2).
But if they are not balanced outputs, it's a shame of the sound, goodbye fidelity.
But what are the specifications, I would only understand a Ketron fan buying something like this, instead of a Genos.>>>
Regards
Genos target market is "sit and play" players, very far from DAWs.
Genos target market is "sit and play" players, very far from DAWs.Agreed however Yamaha includes several "hints" about recording to a DAW. There's even a few MIDI patch screens that are very poorly documented. The Genos is touted as a pro-level keyboard, which implies that recording to a DAW is possible. Yes, it is possible but very convoluted. If their target market is the home player, then remove all documentation about recording to a DAW. It's terribly misleading. If they want to include a section on recording to a DAW, then write the darn thing properly! Just because the target market is the home player doesn't mean the pro players don't exist. Yamaha needs to do it right or go home!
Yamaha have owned Cubase for a while now.True, Eileen and yet they offer no easy to use instructions on how to integrate one of their best products into Cubase. What would it take? A half a day of engineering time and maybe two pages of instructions??? Give me a break!!!!
Agreed however Yamaha includes several "hints" about recording to a DAW. There's even a few MIDI patch screens that are very poorly documented. The Genos is touted as a pro-level keyboard, which implies that recording to a DAW is possible. Yes, it is possible but very convoluted. If their target market is the home player, then remove all documentation about recording to a DAW. It's terribly misleading. If they want to include a section on recording to a DAW, then write the darn thing properly! Just because the target market is the home player doesn't mean the pro players don't exist. Yamaha needs to do it right or go home!
One more thing...the documentation for onboard MIDI recording "assumes" an advanced level of MIDI knowledge. It is not written to a novice or intermediate audience. Don't these people count or is MIDI recording just for the pro-level folks? This too needs to be cleaned up for a significant percentage of their target audience. Of course, some novice audiences will figure it out but a golden rule in technical writing is, "Never force your audience to fill in the blanks. Do not assume they know everything."
Edit 1
Steinberg or any of the other DAW manufacturers are just as much to blame. They assume everyone uses a simple MIDI controller that triggers VST instruments. They need to include a chapter on how to record arranger keyboards and use the top level arrangers as examples - even a patch file that pre-configures the DAW for the Genos or whatever arranger you're using. Heck, there aren't that many.
Edit 2
I know it's been mentioned that the easiest way to record to a DAW is to just record everything in the Genos MIDI section, upload that file to Cubase, and then unpack the tracks. This works, however, assigning Genos voices to those individual tracks is very confusing and often doesn't work. Sometimes you have to reload Cubase or restart the Genos because the drum snares were triggering the piano!! We need clear, well written documentation and there is none.
Sorry for wandering way off track!
HiTheoretically, an airplane can go the route we want on its own, but if there is no pilot to chart a course and be in control, nothing happens.. That's the only thing that's certain. ;) ;D
I like one comment when one guy was demonstrating disco music on the ketron
" So the keyboard plays itself " ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
What else can it do?????
Hi LeeThanks for that explanation, John. Computing power is not an issue for me. If and when I get my registration issue worked out, I may take a deep dive back into recording 😉!
Record your song in Genos Sequencer.
Import into Cubase.
Set the inspector up In and outs (make sure Genos information is selected in Studio manager)
EDIT ALL TRACKS TO TIGHTEN AND SPLIT THE DRUM TRACKS TO SEPARATE TRACKS.
Record all tracks.
If you make program changes when playing and recording song on Genos it shows on the imported tracks in Cubase.
What i do is then cut the instrument changes on Track one to three, which is right 1,2 and 3 and put the different instruments sections on different tracks.
Once all done and named and colored gain stage in mixer and then you are on your way.
When i set the inspector up for each track i have had No Input and Yamaha Genos workstation 1
Now i can have All Midi and Yamaha Genos workstation. I do not know whether there is really any difference in that now.
Before if i had all midi over the Genos workstation in the inspector i would get bells and whistles if i stopped and started in the middle of editing Now i do not get that.
Steinberg seem to have improved the midi section. Up to now the mid notes are staying on grid , as they kept creeping forward before last update. That was annoying when you come back to a song for editing at a later stage.
Main thing today is have a good fast computer.
If one has the intention to buy a new high end arranger keyboard in 2023 ( like me e.g. ), it will not be easy now to make the right choice.
...I would say, as long you wish one, it is intended. But does it make sense?.. well, who cares ;)
I do not know whether a new arranger keyboard is still intended for me. Who knows ?
...
I do not know whether a new arranger keyboard is still intended for me. Who knows?
Best wishes, JH
Theoretically, an airplane can go the route we want on its own, but if there is no pilot to chart a course and be in control, nothing happens.. That's the only thing that's certain. ;) ;D
What about an Irish pilot???? ;D ;D
Hi Oxfordi think we might have John :) Genos throwe,s every thing out the window Yamaha is Better by Far
I bet we have confused our overseas friends ;D
KETRON EVENT VS YAMAHA GENOS V.2-such comparisons are totally useless (and deceiving at that):
I bet we have confused our overseas friends ;D
-such comparisons are totally useless (and deceiving at that):You are right.
1st Why?
We can get all that data from specifications.
2nd Why?
Number of styles (for example) means nothing. What I'm interested on is, the quality of the styles, how many actually different there are, and how flexible (for editing) they are.
I realized, that many romanian youtubers provide (comparison) videos without commenting -is just a waste of time watching.
Just my opinion,
Bogdan
+1
Totally useless YouTube video, Henni. Specs only, no playing. Waste of time.
Next time you place a link to a video, please include a small summary of the video.
Maarten
Hey Sokratis :Unfortunately not yet.
Thank you for your very interesting information. :)
BTW, is the English Event manual already available on the internet ?
Plse advise.
Thanks and best regards, JH
Incredible creativity with almost no midi programming knowledge required.
Through Style Modeling (more on this later) and combining Audio and Midi Loops we build a style exactly as we want and without the slightest need to edit.
We simply choose in each variation what we want it to contain, with the possibility in each different variation to have completely different options (in everything), even in the mix, fx, etc.
I think that this is extremely important because the term "Style Modeling" is so vague. But if I can just "copy & Paste" ( think simple ) to change the style a style , is exactly what I am looking for.No.
It all comes down to the number of options available.
As an extreme example, if I select a "Pop" style, can I change all the elements to a "Country" style just by copy & paste ?
If so, is this done in real time ? While the style is playing, am I able to hear the changes immediately ?
RonP
On Genos we do have the style assembly function and is very easy and quick to use.Yes you are right.
Taking parts from other styles and creating your own choices is fun. Then also you have the grove Function which gives a different feel to a style.
On Genos we do have the style assembly function and is very easy and quick to use.Of course Yamaha has a 'style assembly' function, but it makes little sense to mention it, without being able to compare it 1:1 with the Ketron Event. That will probably be possible in the short term? Only then can you properly judge which works best, most creatively and easiest. I don't find the style-assembly function of Yamaha very fascinating. You have to search a lot if you want to find something suitable and then ... nah ;)
Taking parts from other styles and creating your own choices is fun. Then also you have the grove Function which gives a different feel to a style.
Of course Yamaha has a 'style assembly' function, but it makes little sense to mention it, without being able to compare it 1:1 with the Ketron Event. That will probably be possible in the short term? Only then can you properly judge which works best, most creatively and easiest. I don't find the style-assembly function of Yamaha very fascinating. You have to search a lot if you want to find something suitable and then ... nah ;)
Here is a just-released YouTube video (in Italiano) of the Ketron Event. He purchased a Ketron Event recently and he goes on to basically explain the ins and outs of the keyboard in his lengthy 2+ hour video. The link I will post will be at the time when he starts playing the Event but I actually listened from the beginning but skipped ahead at various points. As I said it's in Italian but I was able to translate it to English using Google's translate 'transcribe' feature. I have an Android Moto One 5G Ace with Android 11 OS. There is no closed captioning for the video so I resorted to using my cell phone. The translation came out pretty good but your mileage may vary depending on your phone and what operating system you have. Apple Siri might work also if you have an iPhone if, in fact, you're interested in hearing what he's talking about if you don't speak Italiano. Without further ado...Dear Mike.
https://youtu.be/W9COE0QFkjU?t=2954
All the best,
Mike
...As you mentioned, style creation can be quite confusing on Yamaha, and I think, that's also partially the reason why some don't "mess" with that.
But of course it also begs the question of how much this will matter to the average arranger buyer, who might never mess with style changes, and who has access to a massive library of Yamaha styles, and custom styles on the internet.
...
Hey Sokratis1974 :Of course.
My dealer said today the Event's exact date of delivery ( promised for December 2022 ) is unknown yet.
BTW, is there a big difference ( sounds, styles, features, etc. ) between the Audya5 and the Event or ... can one call it a " usual " upgrade ?
Your reply would be very much appreciated. Thanks ! :)
Best wishes, JH
...
So here you will see how through STYLE MODELING we can transform a style without a trace of programming...
I realized, that many in this forum don't necessary agree with my opinions and that's ok. What's more important to me is, to make clear, that it's never my intention just to criticize everything in a negative way. And when I express my wish or opinion, I'm aware that that might not be everyone else's wish.So..
What is see in this video is, how easy it's supposed to be replacing instruments/riffs, while playing the style (in any key, I assume). And even disco/funk isn't my kind of music, I can recognize, that this really is a welcome feature compared to current Yamaha.
But what I'm more interested (about 5000€ keyboard) is, how easy it is to make style from scratch. However, not for some random disco rhythm, which purpose is only to sound "cool". As example, some "real" well known music should be chosen, which would demonstrate how close to original we can get and how much work is needed for that.
What I'm saying is, if only some random rhythms are chosen (for sake to impress), then that's only "just another demo" for me.
Probably not related to this topic, but still... By looking at internet shops (in Europe), I have an impression that there's some "crisis" in arranger keyboard industry:
Korg -for latest Pa5x one needs to wait 3+ months, while midrange (Pa) series keyboards many times aren't even listed anymore.
Ketron -actual release of Event model is pretty much unknown and at least price wise, there are no midrange keyboards.
Yamaha -nothing new is going on here (having Genos in mind), although existing keyboards are available.
Bogdan
Hey Sokratis :This will come in future tutorials :)
I would be very grateful if you could show ( or tell ) how midi parts are created and how the final ( short ) midi file would sound like.
Only do it if it is possible for you, if you have time and if you feel like doing it. ;)
I do not want to force anything.
Thank you very much.
Best wishes, JH
hi Eileen,This specific technique (Style Modeling) is not only used in DANCE Styles but there is also an Audio and Midi Palette for many categories (Ballads, Pop, Country, Jazz, Rock etc.)
That's exactly what I wanted to say in my previous post, when I mentioned that "real" music should be used. I'm aware that (very) young people do listen to disco/funk/whatever, or they just don't care as long there's enough "boom" (and melody is many times irrelevant). But then, at such parties, DJ usually don't use arranger keyboard at all.
Even many of us in this forum are in "mature" age, that doesn't mean we play "old-fashion" obsolete music. Actually I'm sure, that younger audience is very much interested in "Classic" dance music we play... to dance & sway on rhythms of songs they're familiar with.
This demo was fine if all you want to do is play dance music but a lot of us especially home players who are the ones who buy these keyboards a lot, would not want to play this type of music. We sometimes find the styles are to busy for the melody lines so cut them back a little. I will defiantly be sticking to my Genos as there are hundreds of styles available to use and many are song specific. I wonder how you have time to play a descent Melody when you are busy changing all the style parts.I couldn't agree more, Eileen. I estimate 99% of Genos or other arranger users are still interested in playing "human music." It annoys me to no end when any company demos their new keyboard using Funk, Rap, or Dance styles to entice me into buying one. With all due respect to those musicians, I find it takes FAR more talent to play the tunes we were all raised with than a bunch of repetitive noise that hinges itself on the technical prowess of the engineers who created those styles rather than, the musical talent of the player.
I couldn't agree more, Eileen. I estimate 99% of Genos or other arranger users are still interested in playing "human music." It annoys me to no end when any company demos their new keyboard using Funk, Rap, or Dance styles to entice me into buying one. With all due respect to those musicians, I find it takes FAR more talent to play the tunes we were all raised with than a bunch of repetitive noise that hinges itself on the technical prowess of the engineers who created those styles rather than, the musical talent of the player.I won't argue. But I should also remind you of the Genos campaign that we never learned about and what its purpose was. If you remember well, with these three DANCE tracks Yamaha did the Genos campaign and until today we didn't find out what these tracks had to do with the Genos.
Once you've mastered those styles, there seems to be little room for expansion. You've conquered the genre. Learning to play Blues and then taking on the Ray Charles or Oscar Peterson styles requires one to live about 200 years to even scratch the surface - and that's just two artists!
[quote author=Sokratis1974Bill, You don't have to apologize for some members who, with some short-sightedness, do not wish to have an open discussion because they feel that their 'Genos' should not be subjected to criticism in any way. Anyone can read the posts and sees what's happening. After all, we're all adults, right?? Just check out a Ketron forum, just as easy. ;)
But I would say it's better to close the issue of the Event here because I'm also starting to feel uncomfortable since this is a Yamaha Forum and not Ketron.
So please don't ask me any more questions about the Event here.
If anyone would like more information, please contact me personally.
Thank you very much.
Hi Sokratis
I can only apologise if some members make you feel uncomfortable (I would too). However I would like to thank you very much for all the time you have taken to give us a little understanding of the new developing technology. I really appreciate it.
Regards
Bill
The purpose of the three video's mentioned before was that Genos was being used along with the Berlin Orchestra to play some of the Drum patterns and style parts using some of the Knob assigned effects to these showing how easy it is to use in live performance.Dear EileenL.
Dear Sokratis, live up to your name: be wise ;). In my opinion you are right on quite a few points, but save your energy trying to convince some of the 'Genos' hardliners on this forum with correct arguments. Hopefully we will see more results from both the Korg and the Ketron in the foreseeable future. Whether Yamaha is still in the picture to surpass, I highly doubt. It will be more of the same as Korg. Ketron steers its own course. Next year, around this time, we can compare the Yamaha Genos 3, the Korg Pa5x and the Ketron Event. Ultimately, the consumers decide. Happy keyboarding ;)My friend ton37 I'm not trying to convince anyone. Personally, it is enough for me that opinions are expressed wherever they come from.. Everyone evaluates and draws their own conclusions.
I admit, that I never saw these three "Genos campaign" videos before. But watching them now, I see no relation to Genos whatsoever. Yes, there are few very short Genos flashes inside, but then, there I can also see flash of Mercedes and Renault cars... From what I read in the post, Yamaha used those video clips for Genos campaign? I ask, because (again) I see no relation to Yamaha there.Yes, these three videos were the official Genos campaign..Isn't that really weird?... No problem my friend. I didn't see any criticism. It's all opinions..
Back to (Ketron) topic...
@sokratis
I am aware, that Event isn't on market yet and that things are still being polished -means, at this point, certain details can't be shared in public.
As I mentioned many times, I really am impressed by Ketron Event and that's because of two reasons: visual appearance (obviously) and because, from what I can read, it's quite easy to get very good results on it (compared to competition). But "from what I can read" just isn't enough -it's still just a rumor. And that's why I said, that I would like to see more "specific" video content. But I get it: it's probably too early for that.
In short, it wasn't my intention to criticize your video -I was only telling what I'm personally interested on.
Best wishes,
Bogdan
Dear EileenL.
*snip*
VIDEO FIRST DATED SEPTEMBER 15, 2017:
https://youtu.be/jHdbmEGyyNg
After establishing the genre “Orchestral Dance Music” with volumes 1-3 of Classical 90's DANCE, Alex Christensen is now back with Classical 80's DANCE: The DJ, producer, talent-scout and songwriter now builds new homes for smash-hits of the 80s , timelessly staged. Catchy melodies, which are firmly anchored in our collective memory, combined with new orchestral arrangements. Besides Felix Räuber, who is the former frontman of Polarkreis 18, “Classical 80s Dance” hosts many national and international artists such as Ronan Keating, Sophie Ellis-Bextor, Gary Barlow, Bonny Tyler and many more:
All videos of Classical 80s & 90s Dance by Marcel Brell.
Odd. You said they're official Yamaha Genos teasers, but they're both published by Alex Christiansen. Moreover, none of the hashtags include Yamaha. Which would be antithetical for a Yamaha Genos promo, no? Nowhere do any of the videos claim anything but an actual orchestra. Ok, the EDM drums are electronic, I supposed that could've come from a Genos. But they didn't claim Genos *anywhere* on all of those videos...?My dear friend, I'm sorry, but I did not create in my mind all that I am describing. I've experienced all of this (as have others) and I've never been able to explain it.
As a dealer, *this* was the only teaser video we were given prior to launch:
As you can see, published by Yamaha.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Sva8QktXf0
My question is, why do you say these are Genos promos? (Could have been, but as a dealer in Canada, we were never given these links, and the links you provide don't hashtag Yamaha or Genos at all)
Incidentally (I know mikf will get a kick out of this) we've had the Pa5x side by side with the Genos since launch (technically July of 2022). We've since sold significantly more Genos than Pa5x (they've somehow made the operating system even more obtuse and difficult to navigate). But yes, I think the seamless patch switching, the piano, hammond organs, Classical guitars, lead and pad synths, and drums are even better than the Genos (it's pretty slight in either direction at this point; with the exception of strings: Solo strings Korg has a *slight* edge, but ensemble strings ensemble choir, the Genos is *quite* a bit ahead).
Mark
My dear friend, I'm sorry, but I did not create in my mind all that I am describing. I've experienced all of this (as have others) and I've never been able to explain it.
Ah...from facebook. I guess that helps explain it... I don't think I've ever looked at any official ads from any corporation through facebook; Nor did Yamaha Canada every mention/show us that. Yes, if they linked it from an official page, that is an absolutely baffling campaign... as I said, the videos themselves don't even reference Yamaha or Genos save for a flash of the corner of a keyboard. But watching them, nowhere did I get the impression that the music was coming from a Genos (Berlin Orchestra was plastered all over the videos) so I still don't understand your "deception" comments.You didn't understand again. The campaign did not start from Facebook but from the official Yamaha site (I think Yamaha USA) I don't remember exactly. The slogan GENOS IN ACTION and the videos there were posted. So later there was also a publication on Facebook and it is in the screenshot that I have attached to you.
I mean, no, the Genos is not as impressive as an actual orchestra (no keyboard is... yet) but I think the Genos is still ahead of the curve there. As per my actual live demos (that I can't recreate on any other brand key because I don't have full style programming control and instant registration switching)
Yes my playing is sloppy :p And yes I cheated *slightly*; on half of these registrations I swapped out the Yamaha default Tutti for the CMS Orchestra (so I could create different levels of crescendo), except for "PoTC" because I hadn't thought of doing that yet. That's just Yamaha's old "Tutti" -- which is getting a little long in the tooth, I hope they add a new one in the G2. Korg's PA5x has several versions of the Tutti crash, and they are wonderfully similar to the CMS one. Shame about the upper register of strings, though. PA5x even has one with a Tutti Crash combined with bass notes from a piano... absolutely perfect for Cliff Eidelman/ Danny Elfman scores!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-UBkmhTW9c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NRr4Npi_ds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOSmEEX-5Ks
However, Sokratis, thank you for finding a pic of that! Hah, no wonder Yamaha Canada has ever mentioned a facebook page!
Mark (the #fatguyonkeys on youtube)
Nice video, Henni. Does the Event use round robin backing tracks? They are far more interesting than the Genos. Less repetitive.No.. Nothing more than a simple (new type) Audio style. Combined of course with the new excellent VOICETRON (for vocal harmonies)
The YouTube video regarding Sokratis' demonstration is interesting, but I noticed when the audio samples created with VSTi's and Cubase 12 were used in conjunction with the Event audio style (Epic_Rock), there was some degradation in the sound of the audio style when it was playing along with the user created audio samples. If there was no discernible sound degradation when combining user audio samples with the Event audio styles, then I would say a fantastic innovation. But with the noticeable sound degradation, I will give my honest opinion and say somebody should go back to the drawing board. Either Ketron Italy software/sound engineers need to tweak things on the Event, or it could possibly be the user created audio samples are somehow not fully compatible with the Event audio styles format and this could be the fault with producing/recording with Cubase 12 and/or the VSTi's used with Cubase 12, or both potentially. Btw, Cubase 12 Pro costs $579. :o FWIW, it is a very interesting concept, but seems very time-consuming and work intensive. If it worked seamlessly and flawlessly with no degradation in sound quality, then it would be another great reason and incentive to purchase a Ketron Event. Cheers.Dear Mike. I have not understood what kind of degradation you have detected. But I must say that within the Event I have made some kind of intervention through EQ in order for them to (stick) between the other elements. But, if you want I can make you a completely flat demo on the audio part (Real Chord) so you can hear the differences. I think up to a point there will be some difference because I don't think the Event AD/DA Converters are any better than the RME UCX ones I have.
All the best,
Mike
I only see a display and hear the sounds , show it real-time played.So, my friend if I wanted to deceive with this video, I must have been too stupid to do so because it would be easy for someone who bought the Event later to find out that I had deceived the people. The practices used by Yamaha with the Genos campaign (Alex Christensen video) which we analyzed a little earlier in this post, I will not neither I nor Ketron will use them. The fact that I didn't put a camera is purely for technical reasons because I have a very serious problem in my home studio where the space is very limited, and I don't have a good place to set up the video camera properly. So, what I did is I got the video and sound of the Event via OBS (HDMI for video and Stereo Line Out for sound) and I recorded it.
Then I believe what I hear , video editing is so easy
the Event seems to be a very professional arranger keyboard with a great sound and a high price ( EURO 5.000, -- !!! ) ;).
I have no idea what the final street price will be.
At Thomann (https://www.thomann.de/intl/ketron_event.htm) listed price is 4999€. But at this point (no available yet), the exact price is irrelevant. Except, it's an high end keyboard: feature- and price wise.
In addition to the price, availability is perhaps more important at the moment. ;)
For the time being Yamaha's Genos has the lowest enduser selling price yet.
Availability : only 1 week.
ok.. about 1st and 3rd video (made by "alma tom").. I will only believe that's hand made style, if I see him playing (plus showing/playing separate tracks). Until then, it's a fake in my eyes.
Bogdan
Yes, I guess Sokratis' style is also "fake"....I haven't mentioned Sokratis's videos, so please, don't misuse my words.
Is there such a thing as a Ketron forum where we could read about the attributes of their keyboards, rather than a Yamaha keyboard dedicated forum 8) ???
Is there such a thing as a Ketron forum where we could read about the attributes of their keyboards, rather than a Yamaha keyboard dedicated forum 8) ???
Cheers
If I'm following this properly, then what you are saying is that in effect each chord can have its own pattern within the part. So while on Yamaha you define one pattern per style part / variation, and it transposes according to the chord, the Ketron can use a selection of different patterns.
Could be interesting - but could also be overused if you're not careful
Hello all.
Please take note that this thread has been read by almost 29,000 guests and members.
To me, this topic is interesting and also relevant
Just sayin'
regards
Ron
Where are the speakers on this keyboard.
I would not be interested in anything that requires you to hook up a computer. If you can't do it on the keyboard then it is not for me.Dear Eileen
As for taking parts of a style to make a new one this is very easily done on Yamaha Keyboards and on Genos has been make even easier.
SokratisDear Mike
I agree with you that everything I have seen so far indicates that creative use of the keyboard functionality is much improved on the Ketron compared to a Yamaha.
But the bigger question is how important is that to the average arranger buyer. The vast majority of arrangers are currently bought by people who want the instrument to be easy to operate and play, and sounds good when they do play, even if they have limited skills. They often have little or no interest in spending time becoming creative via the keyboard operating system. They would rather this was all done for them so they can just press as few buttons as possible and put their effort into just playing. An good example of this is that there are many more posts asking for a suitable style for a song than posts asking how to make or change styles.
I don’t dispute that there are also number of potential buyers who wish to be able to produce better styles, midis, voices etc etc. But they are a relatively small number. You can see it on this forum where deep discussion of keyboard functionality attracts a lot of posts - but from the same small number of members and not from the majority. And the danger is that the technical people - advanced users like yourself - that are driving development may not think like the person that is and has been the main arranger market target. Truth is, Eileen may be much more representative of the main arranger market than they are.
It’s a thought.
Mike
I quite agree on what Mike just said. But still I wonder... let me explain:Dear Bogdan, you expressed with this opinion exactly what I had in mind!!
Many of us are curious when will Yamaha release next keyboard. And so we make guesses about date, pricing and improvements. But what kind of improvements are we hoping for? Sometimes I have a feeling, that (at least for majority here) there are actually no specific wishes -it looks like the only wish (or hope) there is, is that Yamaha would "surprise" us. From what I have read, Genos has very good voices, plenty of styles, keybed is good, connectivity is good... So, on what department do we hope for the surprise? Where can Genos (and it's cheaper cousins) be improved?
Speaking for me (PSR-SX that is!), besides better keybed, I would appreciate better voices. But what would really make a big change for me, is much easier style creation. And I don't mean creating drum or bass pattern. I wish for better (more authentic) styles than those on 450€ keyboards. For example, I wish my style would contain crescendo (https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/crescendo) or glissando (https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/glissando), but it's impossible to make that -at least not in a reasonable manner.
Some say "I don't care about creating styles.. there are plenty available" and I respect that. But my guess is, many didn't even try it (or they did and gave up), because it looks too complicated -which it is. What I'm saying is, if style creation (which is basic attribute of arranger keyboard) would be more intuitive, then maybe more owners would be encouraged to try it.
And that's the main reason why I'm interested on what competition does.
Just sharing my thoughts,
Bogdan
Delivery status of Event has changed at Thomann from "2-3 weeks" to "Available in several months" (same as for Korg Pa5X now).
I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that. As soon Genos was released, R&D team started to work on it's successor -it's nothing like "let's wait and see see what Korg does and we make it better". At the time Pa5X came to market, Yamaha probably already had "a working" example of next keyboard on the desk. That is, all fundamental decisions were already made -changing them would mean throwing away years of work and tons of money.It takes a long time to industrialise the manufacture of a motherboard and such specific components. This explains why when the keyboard came out, it seemed to us to use old generation components.
Bogdan
I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that. As soon Genos was released, R&D team started to work on it's successor -it's nothing like "let's wait and see see what Korg does and we make it better". At the time Pa5X came to market, Yamaha probably already had "a working" example of next keyboard on the desk. That is, all fundamental decisions were already made -changing them would mean throwing away years of work and tons of money.Thnx for your reply: I don't mean 'from scratch'. It is only logical/commercial, if you have not put your product on the market yet, to investigate whether you can make some adjustments. Something like: hey, that's smart of our competitor: see if we can implement something like this here too? So a kind of adjustments that can be implemented in the prototype without too much effort. Nothing wrong with that in itself, of course. Sort or advancing insight. Common in 'competing' products.
Bogdan
I am not impressed by Henni's video's either. ???
I do not speak Italian and have no clue what this gentleman is doing or explaining.
Wished there was at least an English translation/subtitling though. ;)
JH
Henni, Please show me how to use the english sub titles on the last 5 Videos..... Would love to read the english Sub Titles
Okay.
1. Open this link
https://youtu.be/QScDR98EKNY
2. Click on the gear icon right bottom of screen which says "settings".
3. Select subtitles/cc
4. Select Italian(auto-generated)
5. Select subtitles/cc again.
6. Select "English"
7. Watch the video.
I do not understand why the Ketron is not widley available in all countries with backup if it is that good .They are a small company and just don’t have the resources, width of offerings or financial power to establish global networks. Maybe they will get there but I doubt it because that takes so much capital and time. The shareholders may be happy to stay as they are rather than invest at big risk to compete toe to toe with the giants, or they may hope they get acquired by a mega Corp by having desirable technology or products …. That’s the way it works.
My pennies worth here.
I do not understand why the Ketron is not widley available in all countries with backup if it is that good .They are a small company and just don’t have the resources, width of offerings or financial power to establish global networks. Maybe they will get there but I doubt it because that takes so much capital and time. The shareholders may be happy to stay as they are rather than invest at big risk to compete toe to toe with the giants, or they may hope they get acquired by a mega Corp by having desirable technology or products …. That’s the way it works.
Mike
They are a small company and just don’t have the resources, width of offerings or financial power to establish global networks.And yet they want to compete with the big guys. They should do it right or go home 😀.
Henni
The discussion on the Event has been interesting, I have followed and participated in it myself. But I am beginning to think that your barrage of Event videos may be taking it too far and starting to seem like promotion rather than information or discussion.
I think it’s time to cut this back.
Mike
Henni
The discussion on the Event has been interesting, I have followed and participated in it myself. But I am beginning to think that your barrage of Event videos may be taking it too far and starting to seem like promotion rather than information or discussion.
I think it’s time to cut this back.
Mike
what i still cant understand is to why this Ketron Event Rubbish was ever posted on the Genos Part of the forum >:( >:( enough said on the Matter
Delivery status of Event has changed at Thomann from "2-3 weeks" to "Available in several months" (same as for Korg Pa5X now).
... i still think Genos is the best by far..-can't say which is the best, but that blues accompaniment on Ketron (near the end of video) is simply stunning -never heard similar before. I think that's not only because of Ketron's different style approach, but also because of extremely good voices. I'm very impressed to say the least.
what is inside is Band in a boxAnd ehhh .. the recent Yammies are inside Cubase? 🤔
My Yamaha is certainly not inside Cue Base or any other programme.Neither is mine :)
HiAnd there's my point, John. I know you and I have tossed the idea of recording the Genos into Cubase for three years now. It's taken you a lot of that time to figure out how to do just that. Between that and the lack of discussions on the Cubase forum, Yamaha REALLY needs to provide a decent interface for such purposes or take the information about recording to a DAW out of their manual! Yes, it can be done but like their Style Creator, it's so confusing and full of trap doors that the time it takes to learn it is just not worth it. I like to spend my time behind my Genos trying to become a better player. I'm a good enough player to be recorded but I simply refuse to spend 90% of that time as a computer geek instead of a musician. To those who have mastered these things, my hat's off to you. Perhaps you could write out the procedure better than Yamaha does in their manual.
Cubase and Genos work well for me.
Cubase is mainly for vst instrument midi and wave editing. Midi keyboards and Steinberg supports the Genos but asking questions about Genos on their forums gets very few answers. You have to figure it out for yourself.
The midi side for Genos has improved and editing is a breeze.
I used to have to set every track up, but now it recognizes each midi track without a template.
The time for templates is once in wave format. That would be for setting up an effect chain for tracks and master bus.
I am now getting the hang of it all and it is slowly coming together. Trying to find your workflow is the thing. also priming your ears is takes time when your older. :P
With Cubase you need a fast computer and a decent amount of ram for processing and then your problems are very small.
Hopefully the new Genos is not too far away now.
:)
All i want is better electric and Acoustic guitars, Strings and certain brass instruments. I cannot fault the rest.
For me The Genos is worth keeping until the next release.
All the Best
John :)
I am still waiting to see a good demonstration of what all the sliders and buttons do on the Ketron and what advantage it has over other keyboards.
is it really something that Yamaha needs to have high on their list to address??Obviously not. Then, they should de-emphasize it in their literature.
Ah yes.. Ketron. I watched some videos and nothing changed: I still think it looks nice.. and that's pretty much all. I'm still waiting for "in-depth" review (impressions, opinions) from end user who's coming from Yamaha. And untill that happens, I kinda lost interest on Ketron "news" for now.
I paid nearly $6,000 for a keyboard you're supposed to integrate with a DAW. So much for that idea >:(!
...-that's an important factor for sure: one can start with few hundred bucks and make very good music. And maybe more important, "upgrade" path is much cheaper as well! -in that sense, an arranger keyboard is almost a luxury.
I have been told it looks like younger musicians prefer midi controller keyboards due to the much lower purchasing price and the limitless software challenges.
Ketron Event ManualThanks for posting.
... he has a midi controller keyboard, and most of the time, it sits in the corner drawing dust. It is rarely used, mainly because of the complexity of the software and the horrendous editing time involved...Agree on that.
...
There is no instant gratification, with a midi keyboard..
An other very important group of professionals, the giggers, will mostly go for a high end pro arranger keyboard.This is one of the best comments on this thread. Well put, Jeff 👍.
This instrument offers them the choice between a one man band, playing in a band ... or both.
These people expect to play a pro instrument that is very trustworthy with a real professional sound to offer their audience an unforgettable evening.
Looking forward to a new Genos when it comes along.
I am hearing "rumors" that there will not be a Genos 2 as Yamaha will be going in a new direction altogether regarding arrangers. :-\
... new high end arranger keyboard in September ( ? ) 2023.Jeff... could you send a letter to Yamaha and ask them to delay a little?.. I'm not sure I can save that much money in such short time.. thank you ;D
I am hearing "rumors" that there will not be a Genos 2 as Yamaha will be going in a new direction altogether regarding arrangers. :-\I have to agree with you. I think the new TOTL Arranger will amaze us all, however I think a lot of people will be really disappointed at the same time. Why. In my opinion the new board will be a total departure from the old Tyros and Genos operating systems. In order to make significant improvements they have no choice but to scrap the Style definitions and method of using sounds.
Mike, even if Ketron blows Yamaha and Korg totally out of the water with the Event, it's totally moot until they can set up a decent dealer network. I don't know why a company would invest in such an undertaking but exist in a vacuum marketing wise. It makes no sense whatsoever!About dealership: perhaps nowadays it is no longer always necessary to have or organize 'physical' dealership. The internet shops are flourishing worldwide for a reason. The delivery partners arrange the logistics part. Dealers are price-increasing elements in the sales markets. There are enough products (also relatively expensive) that you can only buy from the company itself (via an internet shop). Or an international internet shop (Thomann, Bax, Guitarcentre etc. etc.) An example is the computer market: parts are sold worldwide ... and a keyboard is in fact also a 'music computer'. So Ketron could certainly take such an approach. It is better to try such an instrument at home for a few weeks than to spend an hour in a physical store with a few hours drive! If you don't like it, you can return it within 30/60 days... you almost don't have to go out the door. Welcome to the wide world of internet shopping...
The north American market consists of about 366 Million people. You'd think it would be worthwhile setting up something!!!!!
Mike, even if Ketron blows Yamaha and Korg totally out of the water with the Event, it's totally moot until they can set up a decent dealer network. I don't know why a company would invest in such an undertaking but exist in a vacuum marketing wise. It makes no sense whatsoever!
The North American market consists of about 366 Million people. You'd think it would be worthwhile setting up something!!!!!
I am hearing "rumors" that there will not be a Genos 2 as Yamaha will be going in a new direction altogether regarding arrangers. :-\where did you hear this Donny :)
I have just watched the two Ketron videos and am now less impressed. Will defiantly be sticking with Yamaha.same here Eileen :)
Most, but not all, online stores offer a 30-day return policy, however, it often comes with a price, or 15 percent restocking fee and you pay the shipping charges, sometimes, both ways. That could amount to nearly $750 plus another couple hundred bucks in shipping fees and shipping insurance. Grand total for that online tryout could amount to $1,000.
Think about it!
Gary 8)
Maybe a bit out of topic,
but I was thinking, while waiting something more up-to date arranger from Yamaha, perhaps it should be a good idea to change the Genos "mickey mouse" ie. GNS-MS01
speakers to something that sounds more realistic. I was wondering if these https://www.krkmusic.com/Studio-Monitors/ROKIT-5-G4 (https://www.krkmusic.com/Studio-Monitors/ROKIT-5-G4) studio monitors would be something
to test. Well, unfortunately KRK G4 only have balanced input, while Genos has unbalanced output. Any suggestions, are they any good for
Genos (with extra hardware)?
..perhaps it should be a good idea to change the Genos "mickey mouse" ie. GNS-MS01 speakers to...Disclaimer: I haven't (couldn't) decide for external speakers yet.
However as with any audio backing, the novelty for me wore off rather quickly once I had heard a selection of the styles and a few videos using this feature. Real performances of solo instruments such as harmonica and sax in the intros and endings clearly give that 'whooo' factor the first time you hear them, but seriously I cannot see that novelty lasting very long. However if there's some highly intelligent arranging that completely changes those solo lines then it would be interesting.
Thank you Sokratis.
I'm not that familiar with voice "structures" and so I'm still tapping in the dark. If someone says keyboard has two voices for right hand, then for me (Yamaha owner) that means just that: I can play two different voices at once (i.e. Piano and Strings). At this point I'm not that interested on complexity (layers) of voices. As far I understand, voice layers improve voice reproduction (i.e. for expression & articulation), but outcome is still a single voice/instrument (on single channel). I know there might be more behind this, but my point is: Yamaha has 3 right hand voices and Event has 2, which shows Yamaha in better light -at least for "average" keyboard player.
But now comes "each voice has up to 3 sounds" and here I'm lost.. what exactly does that mean?
Bogdan
Thank you Sokratis.Ok, I'll give an example. In Genos we have the Voice section where there are presets or user (expansion) sounds. Each Voice requires one or more multisamples to play. Genos theoretically has tremendous potential that I don't need to elaborate on.
I'm not that familiar with voice "structures" and so I'm still tapping in the dark. If someone says keyboard has two voices for right hand, then for me (Yamaha owner) that means just that: I can play two different voices at once (i.e. Piano and Strings). At this point I'm not that interested on complexity (layers) of voices. As far I understand, voice layers improve voice reproduction (i.e. for expression & articulation), but outcome is still a single voice/instrument (on single channel). I know there might be more behind this, but my point is: Yamaha has 3 right hand voices and Event has 2, which shows Yamaha in better light -at least for "average" keyboard player.
But now comes "each voice has up to 3 sounds" and here I'm lost.. what exactly does that mean?
Bogdan
Is the Event a real plug and play instrument ?I would be very surprised if it isn't Jeff.
Watching AJ's last video ( #3 ), I have the impression the Event is not. Am I wrong ?
JH
..Mmmm...because one doubt if such an old horse will still winn..? ;D ;D
............
Why should I kill a winning horse after more than 22 years ?
JH
...I just wanted you to see a video of me playing Live with the Event....Nice playing and good piano sound.
Hey Bogdan :Hahaha No don't get confused by what I do while playing. It's just my way of managing. It has nothing to do with Event difficulty. Event behaves like a standard Arranger when playing. There is nothing special here.
I agree with you Sokratis presented us a nice piece of piano music here. :)
It looks to me the Event is not such an easy instrument to play though.
Sokratis is continuously touching knobs and sliders to change voices and other functions ( while he is playing ).
In other words it might take a lot of time before a player, ( who is not used to play a Ketron ), is capable to manage and operate this high end keyboard, IMHO. ::)
JH
I don't understand why they make such a fuss of a board which they think is inferior.
...In this particular instance, it's the player - not the keyboard...Kindly disagree in this case. In this video Alois actually doesn't play much at all.. there's only small saxophone improvisation with right hand and with left hand he only changes chords (which also act as fill-ins to my ears -if you pay attention on harmonica).
Alois is a great German professional musician and one of the best arranger keyboard players I know.👍👍👍I'd like to hear him actually play then 😀. He didn't really do anything in that video. I'm sure he's very good.
It seemed to me like the keyboard was playing more than the player.
I'd like to hear him actually play then 😀. He didn't really do anything in that video...
I can't really understand such comments... If he would play an actual piece, then there would be comments like "good keyboard player can make any keyboard sound good".
It's just a short excerpt from keyboard presentation, where we can get an impression of how keyboard sounds -that's what we are interested about. And here I can only say kudos where kudos is due.
Bogdan
I can't really understand such comments... If he would play an actual piece, then there would be comments like "good keyboard player can make any keyboard sound good".Point taken Bogdan. No offence to Alois. My whole point was based on Jeff's comment, which was, "Alois is a great German professional musician and one of the best arranger keyboard players I know." It would have been nice to hear him play something interesting - not some cheesy sax solo that most beginners learn after a few months. There's nothing more pleasurable and inspiring to a musician than to hear another musician play better than him or her. I'm certain Alois is a great player. If so, then play something! If he actually played something very interesting and it was not shown, then it's the fault of the videographer and person who posted the clip. It would be nice to hear Ray Charles play Chopsticks, but I'd rather hear him play Route 66!
It's just a short excerpt from keyboard presentation, where we can get an impression of how keyboard sounds -that's what we are interested about. And here I can only say kudos where kudos is due.
Bogdan
Then later on the first day of the PA5X's release Tony from Bonners came along and posted the perfect demo. He can often sell a keyboard better than the manufacturers themselves. A bit like Peter Baartmans' excellent demos for Yamaha. They make you want to play and sound just like that, even if you are never able to do so.Good point, Andrew. I think any keyboard maker who releases their new product and lets a bunch of rank amateurs post terrible demo videos before the manufacture hires a pro to do that job, is just plain stupid.
I agree that we're still tapping in the dark about Event (same goes for Korg Pa5X though). It's just that if we're lucky, sometimes we can catch some interesting detail. In this case (at least for me) it was that blues accompaniment in A. Müller's video. Are there just some random phrases playing in style? Is it some audio file used for accompaniment? We don't know yet.
Right now I just assume that's how Event works and that player can modify/create styles and voices accordingly -if that's true, then Event seems to be a darn good keyboard. Because sound-wise it sure is. I have impression that Event is in many ways "different" to what we (Yamaha owners) are used to and that might be the reason to stay with Yamaha. That has nothing to do with which is better, though. I say that because there's a big chance that next Yamaha keyboard will be totally different too -is the only way to make a progress.
Just sharing my thoughts,
Bogdan
Hi Bogdan :
When I am listening to the Genos' songs played by A. Müller and compare the sound quality with the Event and the PA5X, I have to say the Genos' sound quality is still very good for an arranger made in 2017.
JH
Thank you for your interesting feedback, AndrewKeyz. :D
It looks like the Genos ( 2017 ) is still a not to be underestimated competitor for the PA5X and the Event made in 2022/2023, right ?
Reason enough to wait for the Genos' successor before an enduser is able to make his final, best and right choice, IMO. :)
Best wishes, JH
Totally agree, Bogdan. It all comes down to, "What do you need in a keyboard?"
At the moment, the Event fulfills some serious gaps in Genos technology. On the other hand, all the demos I've seen have shown the player sitting back and listening to the Event basically play itself - kind of like two pilots in a heavy aircraft monitoring everything while the airplane is on autopilot. These "players" are listening to a fancy CD player and when they do play, they don't exploit their own talent. They seem to be fascinated by the sound of the styles 🤣, which I must admit may also compel me to just sit and listen.
We'll just have to wait and see what Yamaha provides as a reply. Didn't someone already say that 🤣?
...But where does it start approaching where the keyboard is essentially playing itself, and you might as well be playing a CD or MP3 of the song?...That's something that many (who don't know about arranger keyboards) already think it's happening. That is, they think that accompaniment is pre-recorded. And the better the accompaniment (style) is made, the more they're convinced about that. And I don't blame them for thinking that way.. because we actually can use audio track that way.
Absolutely, no one should discount the Genos if considering between that, PA5X and Event.
I got frustrated with the PA5X after about 5 months so went back to the Genos.
The styles sound good on the PA5X, really good in certain places even, very funky basslines and inspirational, and they sound even better on the Event going by demos but if your playing isn't enjoyable then that will matter much less.
Another stupid thing on the PA5X; it can only record to MP3! No Wav! ::) I hope this is addressed in the future but maybe not as it's written into the manual MP3 only. With all the extra expansion space (two small sd slots at the back that can take a 1TB each I believe) I don't understand why.
The keybed is also disappointing on the 88 key version, the main reason I got it. Very noisy and it is getting worse. I reckon any Fatar one will not suffice for me personally. Now looking at swapping the Korg for a Kawai or Nord Grand and use that in conjunction with the Genos. I think that might be the perfect setup for me.
Hopefully we can see the Event screen registration buttons in action. But with styles taking the attention away this may stay hidden from us.
All very true (from a dealer perspective). Yes, the Korg weighted keys are good in terms of weighting, but they are relatively slow (compared to any Yamaha with wooden keys, like P515, CVP800 series, etc) and yes they get clickier as time goes on. Not just Korg, Nord keys, and yes, any Fatar keys are like that. Not for me either; once I had a wooden key Yamaha, there was no going back to sluggish keys. I had a customer who originally pre ordered PA5x 88, but before he did I had to show him what the keys felt like (same as on Korg C1Air/G1Air. Decent, but not as fast as his acoustic grand piano) so he switched to the 76 (and immediately refunded it because it's even more complicated to use than his PA1000). On Yamaha you just pop in your USB stick and read a style, on Korg, due to being forced to read from a fixed array, you actually have to individually* copy the styles you want into the internal fixed array, and then overwrite one of those slots (you *can* batch copy, but it overwrites the entirety of each bank, so really only useful to batch copy the 1st set of styles for each bank, the rest you have to individually copy).
Having said that, the PA5x piano sound is *fantastic* and schools the Genos, the solo strings (and even the combination string layers) are quite good, except for the higher octaves which still sound distinctly "synthy", same problem as the predecessor. And the modern pop/R&B styles are second to none. The build and finish are also far superior to the Genos... but as a consequence it weighs 10 lbs more.
I like the Classical guitars slightly more on the Pa5x (but Genos still has better steel string guitars, and shockingly, electric distorition guitars, which Korg has traditionally been superior in). Both have great electric clean guitars. The PA5x Shakuhachi is also *miles* better than the default Genos one. EP's and Organs are good on both, but you won't have people complaining about rotary on/off being baked into the sound, as they use DSP's on all organs. And instead of having to hold the stick up for fast? You just tap the stick up once to speed up/slow down the rotary. *however* it would've made more sense to use one of the 3 assignable (articulation) buttons :p
Oh the Nord Grand is the only one that doesn't use the standard clacky Fatar keys, and the piano samples are *fantastic*. However, still not a wooden key. If you're looking for a better key feel and a better piano sound than the P515 (which is middling), try the CP88. I would've suggested one of the new wooden key Casios (PXS5000-7000), but oddly, they only offer USB B midi out, not standard 5 pin, rendering them difficult to use as a master KB.
One of my customers tried slaving a PSRsx900 from a Casio PXS1000... and weirdly it *worked* using a custom USB B to B cable. But it's not supposed to! :p
Baffling decision to leave out 5 pin midi, but *wow* are they ever compact and light. Wood/resin hybrid 88 keys weighs 25 lbs *with* built in speakers... the next lightest with built in speakers is the P515 which comes in a 49.5lbs.
If sound is more important than the key action, I'd go with the Nord Grand. If key action is most important I'd go with the CP88. If you want good key action (not as good as the Yamahas but superior to everyone else) and lightweight portability? Try one of the PXS5000/6000/7000. Crazy light. But you'll need to buy a USB B to B cable if you want to run a master/slave setup on your Genos.
Mark
I'd expect a Genos followup, which I think will have a completely different name again, so not to confuse with the 2.0 firmware upgrade on the Genos to have this quite a bit more. :)
Hi Guys :
Do ( some ? ) Genos' owners still expect a last Genos' update before Yamaha are going to launch their Genos' successor ?
Or ... did I misunderstand this message ... age problem perhaps ? Sorry !😮
Best regards, JH
Hey Andrew :
A long time ago Yamaha offered all their expansions free of charge.
Does it mean it is the end of these expansion packs and will the successor be completely different than the Genos with a new engine, a new styles' concept and a new brand name or
am I dreaming ?
Hey Jonny :
Interesting ... why should Yamaha consider to leave the high end arranger keyboard market ?
I show Yamaha arrangers on my YouTube channel. Last year's analytics show that 70% of visitors are under 54 years old.
I hope Yamaha will have a new model by the end of this year and I'm sure problems like this won't happen.
https://youtu.be/SpN5qRDwLjE (https://youtu.be/SpN5qRDwLjE)
Thank you, Guys for this very useful / interesting information and your attachments. :)
Yamaha will announce a brand new, spectacular high end arranger ( 76 keys ) in September 2023.
Estimated Delivery : November/December 2023, early 2024.
I would not be surprised a new SX successor ( 61 keys ) will follow a year later ( 2025 ? ).
Take care, JH
Personally, in my opinion, the fact that Yamaha are taking this long against their usual practice - which would have been the usual increment after 2 or 3 years, I think could suggest a different direction.
Well they better otherwise if all the hoo har everybody has been giving the Pa5x and Event then Yamaha brings out a Genos2 with 10 additional styles, another USB port,3 new SA voices and the keyboard in Pink, I think most people would be totally ****** with a gesture update where we've building up Yamaha to expect something spectacular to arrive - that may never even happen at all.
My Dutch dealer told me this morning he has no information ( from the Italian manufacturer ) when the Ketron/Event will be available for sale.
On his website he says : Delivery time unknown.
JH
Thomann says 6-8 weeks whilst DV247 (many products usually ship from Germany overnight via DHL) still has 3rd of Feb launch date for me.
Both have no trade in option.
Ketron make surprisingly good instruments and then make them almost impossible to buy.That's true and very surprising. Makes you wonder why they're even in business. Developing these devices is not cheap.
That's true and very surprising. Makes you wonder why they're even in business. Developing these devices is not cheap.
AJ at Ketron USA said Ketron Italy will NOT be shipping any more Events until sometime in March. Apparently Ketron is a much smaller company than I realized. There could be just a dozen or so people assembling the Events, and they probably want to have a couple of hundred or so on hand to ship out by March, which means they could be working around the clock to accomplish their goal. Now, as far as Yamaha goes, there's really no telling what's going on behind the scenes at Yamaha Japan unless, of course, someone at Yamaha USA/UK/etc., breaks the NDA or Yamaha personally starts leaking things to the media to give people a heads-up about a possible new high-end arranger coming down the pike. Remember, Yammie hasn't even hinted about a Montage replacement yet, and the Montage has been on the market a year longer than the Genos has. Now, if you've got deep pockets and don't gig and want a stellar high-end "digital piano" arranger keyboard, there's always the Yamaha CVP-805/809 to consider. It sounds better than the Genos, has new voices and about the same amount of voices as Genos, 675 Styles, has VRM (Virtual Resonance Modeling) technology used for the CFX Pianos also with Binaural Sampling (also included is the Bösendorfer Imperial Grand), 256 note polyphony with no mention of the polyphony being relegated to separate sections/areas e.g. Preset and Expansion sections on the Genos is divided i.e. 128 note (Preset) & 128 note (Expansion). So that's another huge plus regarding the CVP line, if true. 88-key Linear Graded Hammers, which is the bee's knee's if you're mainly a Pianist at heart. And the nice thing is, it doesn't seem to affect the users' ability to play other voices effortlessly.
Here's a recent video demonstrating the CVP-809 that makes that point. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RQS5fdSy6U The CVP-805/(809 is top-of-the-line) are rather expensive, but I'm talking to those with deep pockets who no longer gig. Set it and forget it since it weighs 185 lbs (Polished finish) 181 lbs, Matte Finish. So in conclusion, if Yammie has decided to exit the TOTL arranger market, then we would still have the very popular and fantastic sounding CVP line...for people with deep pockets. ;) Everyone else can either keep the Genos until the cows come home, or chuck the Genos and get a Pa5X or a Ketron Event that have newer technology and also sound great. Your choice. 8)
Btw, I mentioned a while back that Yamaha employees sometimes peruse the PSR Tutorial forums. When the Genos first came out, a Yamaha employee by the name of Heratch Touresian posted a few times on the forum. Previously, I had forgotten his name. He's an expert in the digital music industry (both hardware and software) who has been working for Yamaha as a technical sales specialist since 2002. I'm sure there are other Yammie employees who also check us out on occasion to see what we're up to and to get ideas of what Yamaha customers are looking for in future Yamaha keyboard products. Thought I'd throw that in. PS: If you want a fantastic deal on a Yamaha CVP-809, look no further than the Piano Guys Piano Store out of Gilbert, Arizona. They have a website: thepianoguyspianostore.com. They're currently having a sale on the CVP line. Furthermore, they beat Sweetwater.com price by a lot, FYI. I'm not sure if they ship internationally, though. Enjoy whatever you play! And let's all hope Yamaha hasn't given up on top-of-the-line arranger keyboards. September 2023 sounds okay with me, if true. :) Remember the NAMM 2023 trade show runs April 13-15 so perhaps Yamaha will reveal a Genos successor there? 👍
All the best, Mike
Amazing demo of the CVP! I can't help thinking that some of those tunes were pre-scored with MIDI tracks and played along with. No matter - it still worked!
Wish he'd play a whole song and once again insist that the video camera be installed over the top of the CVP. Who are the people who shoot this stuff? Of course, our main focus is the sound but we also need to see what the CVP looks like!!!!!!!! Duh!!!!!!!!
Hey Mark :
Thank you so much for informing this forum about your pros and cons findings between the Yamaha Genos and the Korg PA5X/88.
BTW, is it your intention to add the Ketron/Event to your arrranger's product range in the near future ?
If that might be the case, an objective, detailed dealer's comparison between the Genos and the Event would always be very welcome ( to whom it may concern ), I guess. ;)
There is no enduser's reaction of this new arranger available ( yet ).
I am still waiting for Ketron's English spoken pro video presentation. Wonder if it will ever come ? ;D
For your information, I have no intention to buy a competitive arranger keyboard. I am a traditional Yamaha customer for more than 22 years. ;)
As usual I am always reading your educational comments. :D
Best regards, JH
Next week ::)
https://www.musicstore.com/en_NO/NOK/Ketron-EVENT/art-KEY0005700-000
A lot of money though ... ;)-It sure is! But compared to Genos launch price, it's not that "bad" ::) Ok, Korg Pa5X 76-key is 300€ cheaper and it also has 61-key option (additionally 300€ cheaper).
Ketron however, is still not really clear to me.. especially styles stuff. But on the other hand, voices on Event sound just stunning in my ears.
Bogdan
...-agree on that.
At least he/she wants to hear, play and test the instrument ( in the shop ) thoroughly before he/she will decide whether or not he/she will spend more than 5,000,-- Euro's.
...
An expensive arranger NEVER made a person a better musician.Actually it does, Jeff. Of course, I know that you meant - practicing is the true key to mastering the keyboard. You're 100% right. But having a TOTL keyboard makes it easier to explore music you never thought possible.
Mark :Well, I found this:
Thank you very much for your feedback.
It looks like only a few ( worldwide & European ) dealers
might have the intention to sell the Ketron/Event in the near future ?
🥺
Time will tell ...
JH
That CVP809 demo is pretty awesome! For me it actually doesn't seem THAT much to have dropped an additional 5K on top of the PA5X I bought and to then have a near perfect digital piano with speakers as well. I'm pretty dissatisfied with the Korg for the price I paid. I keep telling myself to give it a go again but I'm just too obsessed with the Genos. I see the CVP has reg buttons. It would have been a deal breaker if it didn't. The PA5x I just find almost unusable without it. I can't setup songs the way I want.
Edit:
Hmmm this doesn't look good for me personally. Nothing seems to beat the digital Kawai actions... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEKFGkR6KAk&t=278s&ab_channel=BonnersPianos%26Keyboards
Hi AndrewKeyz, the video link you posted is a comparison between the Yamaha CLP685 vs Kawai CS11, 5 years ago, which is before the CVP-809 was released to the public. I haven't played a CVP-809 myself, but looking at the YouTube video I posted previously seemed to suggest the key action was not overly heavy. If there is anyone on the forum who has played a CVP-809, maybe they could chime in and fill us in regarding the key action. 🎹Thanks Mike, ultimately the best thing for me to do will be to have a go at these keybeds myself. Hopefully I can manage to try out a number of keybeds this coming Saturday: CVP 809, MP11SE, ES920, Nord Grand etc. I was extremely disappointed with the RD2000 (too heavy action and the light setting didn't really improve things), that came highly recommended and I didn't like the usage at all, and now the PA5X88 which in my opinion has an awful keybed that is breaking after very light use. I feel a huge disconnect with playing on that and making music. It seems a struggle somehow, which I'm not sure is just the PA5X or the keybed ruining it. I've heard other complaints about Fatar in general, especially from pianists. I'm surprised it is so bad to be honest after all they are used in many controllers etc. I wish Korg would have gone with something that was universally more liked, like a Kawai ES920 keybed maybe? I've seen some mentions that Korg's own 88 weighted keybeds on some of their recent products are quite liked, so really don't understand the Fatar thing at all. Maybe a weight, cost or resources issue. Best one I've used in the past was a Kawai CA67, which I appreciate is a near real piano action and would never go into a portable arranger.
PS: Correction: price for the CVP-809 at the Piano Guys Piano Shop in Gilbert, AZ is actually the same price as on Sweetwater.com. Sweetwater does have the Polished Ebony Finish in Stock and they do ship internationally and they have free shipping on most items, but I'm not sure about the CVP-809 since bulkier items don't ship free but arguably @ 185 lbs the CVP-809 doesn't seem that heavy compared to, say, a Hammond B3 organ, etc. ;)
All the best, Mike
I think Yamaha had gone as far as it wanted with expansion packs and there are so many third party packs around now to buy. They probably decided they could invest the money spent on this side into the development of future keyboards.
True, Mike. I wouldn't have used the word, "amateur."
Perhaps, "recreational players," "home players," "off stage players" or "for fun players."
It's a shame that the word "amateur" has taken a negative connotation. It once meant "lover of art". And the way it is now used and abused in sports! :o Yikes! >:(
-- pj
It's a shame that the word "amateur" has taken a negative connotation. It once meant "lover of art". And the way it is now used and abused in sports! :o Yikes! >:(I have seen it written many times on the forum that the amateur and professional should be used to designate those who make a living as a musician, or those who do not, rather than competence level. But in fact this is incorrect. Although that is one meaning, use of the word professional to denote someone who has high level of skill, even if unpaid, and amateur to denote incompetence even if they are paid, are both legitimate uses of the words. English Dictionaries have contained those definitions for many years. I don’t know when it first started to be used that way, but I would think, more than hundred years, and it is now very common.
-- pj
I have seen it written many times on the forum that the amateur and professional should be used to designate those who make a living as a musician, or those who do not, rather than competence level. But in fact this is incorrect. Although that is one meaning, use of the word professional to denote someone who has high level of skill, even if unpaid, and amateur to denote incompetence even if they are paid, are both legitimate uses of the words. English Dictionaries have contained those definitions for many years. I don’t know when it first started to be used that way, but I would think, more than hundred years, and it is now very common.
Mike
Hi John :Thank god that takes the amateur away out of the equation ;D ;)
Some people call " Mixing and Mastering " an Art not a Science. :)
All the best, JH
Hi John :
Some people call " Mixing and Mastering " an Art not a Science. :)
All the best, JH
Hi John:True Jeff. Mixing and mastering is an art but those who do must use science as a tool 😀.
Some people call " Mixing and Mastering " an Art not a Science. :)
All the best, JH
I’ve heard people listen to music and say “what a great song”, or “boy that guy can play” or “what a great arrangement”, or “ what a great voice” - but never heard anyone say “what a great mix”.!!
Mike
Not anymore it's simple to do with a free AI online service.Thanks for finding this!
https://www.bandlab.com/mastering
This guy's video convinced me. I could tell the difference in the A/B test at the end of his video.
The time he spent verses the final result wasn't worth the difference (IMO). 8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfev8CifjRY
Regards
Drake
Shame these videos are never in English but obviously you can get the gist easily here after initial minutes of blabbering.
I do like these lock features I must say. I think only really useful if you can quickly select with registrations for certain parts in songs and then move on. But a good feature anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVKfSpCd5ug&ab_channel=BartekKrzemi%C5%84ski
Hi.
Yes, has being postponed, once again. But, the good news is the new price ;D ;D ;D
https://www.musicstore.com/en_NO/NOK/Ketron-EVENT/art-KEY0005700-000
"Ordered, estimated to be in stock: Apr 21, 2023 "
... and why they have drasticly decreased their unit price without prior notice.Another opportunity for speculation... First, price might (and probably will) change again when Event actually becomes available.
An unusual policy, IMHO. ;)
Another opportunity for speculation... First, price might (and probably will) change again when Event actually becomes available.
But other than that, according to current keyboards market, I see no reason why they did that. When Event "came out", Korg Pa5X was already (kind of) on market, so Ketron could position it's price accordingly and price of Genos also didn't change since then. So first possible reason could be, that Ketron realized that Event simply isn't competitive at such high price.
The other reason I can imagine is ... attention please! .. Ketron might heard something about Genos successor coming soon enough? I mean, it would be a shame if Event would need to reduce price at Yamaha arrival -you get the point, I'm sure.
Bogdan
I wonder how many musicians are ready to place an Event order now ... and pay in advance ? 🤩🤩🤩
JH
At least Korg got that right with the Pa5X.
Hopefully Yamaha will do the same. Not: allow to sell straight after NAMM, drip feed some videos that raise more questions than answers, and not be able to actually have it delivered till Sept/Oct!
I disagree. It took about a month or so after Yamaha announced the Genos that we started to see a few Genos show up at music retailers in the USA. Not sure about Europe or Canada, but I was able to purchase a Genos in November 2017 at a local Guitar Center. If companies wait too long before actually shipping an adequate amount of product, many people might lose interest, which is what's happening with the Ketron Event and the Korg Pa5X, in my opinion, because of their obvious slow to market strategies and minimal deliveries to music retailers, online and in stores. The Pa5X is still not available in the UK if I'm not mistaken. If Yammie releases the Genos 2 at NAMM 2023 on April 13-15 in Anaheim, California, there will be a lot of hoopla and excitement, needless to say. If Yamaha is quick to the draw and the Genos 2 is available in stores soon thereafter, and if it's a worthy contender and/or pounces the competition, that would mean a lot of people who are waiting for the Pa5X and Event to show up in stores may in fact turn their attention to the Genos 2 because of its relatively rapid availability. And that means Yamaha would have a leg up on the competition and could secure a significant bump in market share and leave the competition eating dust. Bottom line: The Genos 2 could be a real barn burner and if it sells like hotcakes, it could increase Yammie's bottom line big time. In other words, a win-win situation if I ever saw one. 8)
All the best, Mike
Not sure about Europe or Canada, but I was able to purchase a Genos in November 2017 at a local Guitar Center.The Genos showed up in Canada about two months after the US, because Yamaha doesn't think we count, even though Canada produces some of the best entertainers in the world. I received the second one sold in Canada but that was after many phone calls to Yamaha, including their Ontario regional manager who told me, "I just love my new Genos" which arrived in her hands around the same time the US got their original shipments. She had the nerve to tell me, "You're going to love the Genos!"
The Pa5X was available on 30th of June 2022 though, the day the embargo was lifted, I bought it on that day and had it at home 4 days later. Probably could have been quicker if I had wanted to pick it up.
Interesting since you live in the UK and from my understanding, no retail shops in the UK currently have the Pa5X in stock the last time I looked, anyway. Did you buy it online from Italy? As we know Ketron arranger keyboards are made in Italy too and I noticed a few Italians were able to purchase an Event when the first shipment went out. Korg really messed up too. Yes, they shipped possibly a few hundred early on but many countries have not received any going on 8 months now. I did source one 76-key Pa5X here in the USA a week or so ago at the standard retail price if anyone is interested. But as I stated previously, I want to wait a while to see what Yamaha will deliver. Especially now that NAMM 2023 is only a couple of months away. If Yammie doesn't reveal a Genos 2 (or whatever they call it) at NAMM, I will probably still wait to see what transpires in 2024 before considering a move. The Genos, of course, is still top-shelf soundwise, in many regards, but technology has rapidly advanced over the past 5 years and a new hardware model will hopefully address some of those concerns. Which have been addressed in some ways on the Pa5X and the Event. But knowing Yamaha, I think when the Genos 2 is finally released it will likely blow the competition out of the water. Just like they did when the Genos came out. 8)
All the best, Mike
Well it may or may not be a sign that Yamaha will be launching a new model later this year, but the fact that the Yamaha Club is sadly closing in July due to retirement of the organiser Glyn Madden, however the annual Club Weekend Event that takes place every year at the end of October has been taken over directly by Yamaha UK and pushed back to mid November.Here's an idea. Let's put a hidden camera inside Peter Baartman's house. I bet he has the Genos 2 right now and is learning all about it 🤣!
This year there will be special guest appearances by Martin Harris and Peter Baartmans, could this indicate that Yamaha have a new model to show off ?
There are other big keyboard shows earlier in year here in the UK, but this yearly event which is quite large could be a good time for Yamaha to stage an event 8)
Cheers Terry
Well it may or may not be a sign that Yamaha will be launching a new model later this year, but the fact that the Yamaha Club is sadly closing in July due to retirement of the organiser Glyn Madden, however the annual Club Weekend Event that takes place every year at the end of October has been taken over directly by Yamaha UK and pushed back to mid November.
This year there will be special guest appearances by Martin Harris and Peter Baartmans, could this indicate that Yamaha have a new model to show off ?
There are other big keyboard shows earlier in year here in the UK, but this yearly event which is quite large could be a good time for Yamaha to stage an event 8)
Cheers Terry
...
There are other big keyboard shows earlier in year here in the UK, but this yearly event which is quite large could be a good time for Yamaha to stage an event 8)
Cheers Terry
I've never been but it sounds great. Sorry if this completely off topic.Not at all. This whole thread could be graphically represented by a snake's back 🤣. I enjoy the various tributaries this thread has taken. It's all good discussion among friends.
Is this the official booking for that Yamaha UK club weekend?
https://www.cavalcadeproductions.co.uk/yamaha.htm
I've never been but it sounds great. Sorry if this completely off topic. :-[
You're probably both right, but I'm just wondering why Yamaha is also so quiet.Yamaha is not so quiet. I looked at the electone ELA-1 (new) user’s guide and older ELB/C/S-02 user’s guide.s. It’s clear for me electone and Genos lines are currently converging.
...-that's the only way for you to actually end up with better keyboard. I say "for you" because at the end, it will (probably) be subjective opinion... it's just the way it is.
I'm trying to be open minded and objective and forget about my problems with the Korg...
...ELA-1 is compared to PSR-SX600 on another site.-I agree on that: it's an two-keybed SX600 with added pedals.
3. Just put it on the market (limited number). Solve the problems while doing so. The first customers are then a kind of 'test subjects'. Unfortunately, that happens all too often these days.
All parties already knew about the world's problems, etc., when they were launched on the market. That risk was deliberately taken.
It comes to answer the question, what do you want: 100 hi-quality voices or 500 good-enough voices? Your guess is right: keyboards with 500 voices will sell better.
-I agree on that: it's an two-keybed SX600 with added pedals.That globally means that Yamaha continues to invest on the Genos arranger line as now it is common with electone evolutions.
Reading all these opinions & the fact that it's been so long a wait I still think Yamaha will break away from traditional arranger keyboards from the past we all know too well & venture into a new design & focus direction that will surprise many of us. :-\
Possibly use a brand new name like Helios or Yamaha Cosmos. ;D
This horse has been beat to death,
Gary 8)
I have to agree with you Gary, why some people believe in flogging a dead horse is beyond me, especially when they have no real interest in the technology and have zero intention of buying any new keyboard. I suppose they are like my good wife, she never stops talking because she like the sound of her voice. However she never actually say’s anything that she has not already said a thousand times.Okay...., that's why you bought you a Genos (or any other brand should help too, with headphones mostly on) ;D ;D ;D
Bill
Ketron Event in stock?
https://www.opushangszer.hu/ketron-event-szintetizator-9take
Around 5.500 Eur
Well,
Genos is some yars old now (close to 5?), and is not that much cheaper than the newcomers.
https://www.thomann.de/de/yamaha_genos.htm
So? What's your point?
So? What's your point?
I think one reason is it has something to do with MIDI 2.0 implementation.
maybe the new arranger is called Zeus, Vulcano or Titanic, ;D you never know! 8)
Hans
The point is, if the prices for new models such as Event (and PA5X) is a joke (as stated in the post above mine),The technology and components used are from almost 10 years ago... That's why, for example, the connectivity is a bit modest. Midi 2.0 could be an interesting solution.
the price for (the 5 year old) Genos certainly a joke as well.
The technology and components used are from almost 10 years ago... That's why, for example, the connectivity is a bit modest.
Midi 2.0 could be an interesting solution.
However, Midi 2.0 has not been very popular in any devices ::)
-Kiplis-
Practically, can someone give one or two examples of things that would be possible on Genos with midi 2.0 that is currently not possible ? (Avoid technical only description like « each note will have its own effect value…. »)
...I noticed Ketron is still using obsolete USB 2.0 on the Event. Unacceptable, in my opinion..USB specification is irrelevant the way current (Yamaha) keyboards work. For example, Genos & PSR-SX use USB 2.0. Copy a 500MB pack from PC to USB 2.0 stick. Now compare how long does it take, if you copy from USB stick to PC or if you install pack to keyboard and you'll see, that the process is much longer on keyboard -because keyboard can't store the data fast enough (=USB 2.0 is much faster than keyboard).
Good point @bogdan. It's right, usb2 can be fast enough, provided that the other hardware (chips, boards, OS, memory) reacts with almost the 'same' speed. That is unfortunately not the case with the current Yammie's.
...Where specifically is there a problem with the hardware 'speed' regarding chips, boards, OS and memory?When installing package, you can see how LED on USB blink.. that is, when LED is lit, data is read from USB and when LED is off, USB stick is just waiting (because keyboard is busy writing data on internal storage).
Since I am very interested in midi, I would be very grateful to know what midi 2.0 exactly is and what the advantages are for all of us.
When installing package, you can see how LED on USB blink.. that is, when LED is lit, data is read from USB and when LED is off, USB stick is just waiting (because keyboard is busy writing data on internal storage).
Only guessing here, but my first suspect for slow transfer would be NAND Flash (probably used for storage), which is relative slow at writing data. But then it can be combination of many things: internal clock, bus width, CPU speed, firmware, etc.
Why am l getting that sinking feeling? ;D
Perhaps this will help: https://www.midi.org/midi-articles/details-about-midi-2-0-midi-ci-profiles-and-property-exchangeI understand that with higher resolution, effect transitions will be smoother.... more natural.
-Kiplis-
Ketron, I wonder if they have many styles available ?
And what about Ketron song styles ?
All audio styles, I guess ?
The Event seems to have a nice sound, I agree but I like midi styles.
Easy to edit in the pc.
...I can fully understand that! -we don't need "the best" keyboard: the one that suits our needs is enough (and is, in that sense, the best).
Personally, I like the Genos so much that I seriously doubt a company other than Yamaha will beat it (for my needs)..
..Yamaha guarantee quality, easy to use, reliable and very stable in value...-from what I can see on web, it's no better or worse than other reputable brands.
For all Yamaha arrangers there is a lot of software available ( including software, free of charge, specially made by our own experts ) and ... last but not least the presence of thousands of styles made for Yamaha arrangers.The only software Yamaha provides is YEM, because keyboard needs it to function as an arranger keyboard. And because of YEM limitations, we're practically forced to use additional software. In that sense, Etienne (MixMaster author) and J.Sorensen deserve more credit than Yamaha: they do it for free, while the cost of "free" YEM is included in keyboard price.
I am no longer interested in buying a competitors' new arranger.
I will wait for Yamaha's new baby ... 2024 might be the right time, I guess.
IMHO Yamaha are in the best driver's seat to maintain their #1 global position in this market now that Yamaha are aware of what the 2 competitors are offering. ;)That might not necessary be the case... for example, Yamaha needed 10+ years to catch up with Korg on touch display. Every company has different priorities targeting different customers.
...
Is that your final decision Jeff ??? ::) ::) ::)
I have been told the Genos came 5-6 years ago with a complete new software concept : better sound and better drums than ever before ...
Indeed the Genos is built on a different operating system than the Tyros series...We will never really know, but ... my impression is, that only interface was adapted to touch screen. Yes, there were few options added, but at the same time Genos inherited limitations from previous generation: clumsy style editor, only partial voice editing possibility, YEM dependence & limitations, etc. That is, maybe OS is "new", but from users perspective, not much has changed. Or if I make a parallel comparison, it's similar difference as is between PSR-S970 and PSR-SX900 -which is not that big.
We will never really know, but ... my impression is, that only interface was adapted to touch screen. Yes, there were few options added, but at the same time Genos inherited limitations from previous generation: clumsy style editor, only partial voice editing possibility, YEM dependence & limitations, etc. That is, maybe OS is "new", but from users perspective, not much has changed. Or if I make a parallel comparison, it's similar difference as is between PSR-S970 and PSR-SX900 -which is not that big.
And that's why I said I wish (for sake of competition) Yamaha to come with something actually new.
I expect many to disagree with my opinion.. I respect that :)
Bogdan
.......Do you mean the Ketron-horse or the Yamaha-horse? ;)
Is this horse dead yet?;)
Gary 8)
I guess I look at this in a different light. Why make drastic changes to a great product? Think about the Volkswagen Beetle, a car that went unchanged for decades, other than some very minor exterior modifications. That product stood the test of time, and continues to sell like hotcakes every new year model. The same goes for the Genos, it looks great, sounds fantastic, does more things than most members of the forum are capable of accomplishing, and is extremely reliable, which is a great asset for full-time musical entertainers who put it to work for them every day of the week.
I agree, there are a few individuals that want things their way, new features that would rarely be used by the masses. Some of those changes would be easy to facilitate with software updates, while others would require more drastic undertakings and additional hardware modifications. From the standpoint of practicality, I sincerely believe that Yamaha is on the right track, with only minor modifications with new, TOTL models. Korg seems to be headed in the right direction as well, while Roland got out of the arranger keyboard business and is trying to keep it's head above water with it's current models.
Is this horse dead yet?;)
Gary 8)
I think BogdanH is 100% correct.
The UI may have had a facelift, and perhaps the actual OS code was rewritten, but in terms of what it actually does - what we'd call the "functional specification" - very little is different from Tyros 5.
(Some exceptions - Chord looper, assignable knobs and buttons, storing DSP parameter settings in registrations, search, playlist)
It is all, fundamentally, based on the XG specification that's been around for many years.
(For the avoidance of doubt I am very fond of my Genos, as an overall package including content it's better than the Tyros 5)
Is this horse dead yet?;)
Gary 8)
Bartek Krzemiński - Polish Ketron Event presenterFinally, a quality demo. Thanks for the link, Erbis. Bartek is a good player and provides a wide variety of styles. Here are my thoughts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YLBPAmFXhg
Nice summary posted by rphillipchuck.
The bottom line is that these 3 keyboards are all excellent state of the art products, with some different strengths, and all capable of great performance in the right hands. These are the Mercedes, Lexus, Porche of the arranger world, not the VWBeetle. The TOTL models of these brands are all excellent yet still strive for constant improvements with with each new issue, and still have enough differences to all grab their own market share. There is no “best” between them. Just preference.
Mike
https://youtu.be/7ILXMhnqabEHello.
Hi Jeff, someone posted this on Korg forum. The guy mentions something about being able to turn a .kst Ketron style , into a .mid file for editing. Then changing it back to a .kst file. That really peaked my interest.
I got someone to send me .kst file. Changed it to .mid. It showed up in xgworks , markers included, but , had no luck changing .mid extension back to .kst. Maybe I was doing something wrong, but I couldn’t get it to work.
(Tried it with an old Ketron .pat file, just out of interest , no luck at all with that one )
I had asked on Synthzone if midi styles could be event listed or imported/exported as midi files, answer was a bit cryptic, but I think he said no.
If your manual is the same one as I downloaded off Ketron Italy a while back, I couldn’t find a great deal on style editing. Maybe there’s 2 versions , a simple and an extended. The one I read was about 200 pages.
Thank you very much for your feedback, Rikki ! :)Hi Jeff.
I hope Sokratis ( from Ketron ) would tell us more about the Event's midi styles and features ... the manual's midi information seems to be too superficial, IMO.
For you, me and many others it might be important to know, I guess.
To my knowledge the Event's styles are mostly ( 90% or more ? ) audio styles ... and cannot be extracted for external editing, am I right ? ::)
Best regards, JH
I think that there is a lot of awkward must do's and must not's. All looks crammed to me.
I still think that our Genos is much easier to understand and better spaced out when it comes to changing this and that.
I will stick with the Genos as i have no compaints about it, only,when are we going to get the next one 8)
With the Genos if people utilized the pads to enhance tracks and got stuck into all the effects it is surprising what you get out of this machine. :)
Hello.
You probably did something wrong. The Ketron way via file extension renaming trust me works great because it's something I deal with every day. So this way is quite similar to that of Yamaha (.STY) with the difference that in the case of Ketron we can create directly in the midi file, and different versions of Minor, Major in Intro and Endings, which is particularly difficult with Yamaha, complicated and of course requires third party software (not free). When we complete the process in the daw we are working on (Cubase, Logic, Reaper etc.) we just export midi file as (0) 480 PPQ midi file and not (1) midi file.
In the cases where it didn't work it was my fault, as for example there were some cases whereas a style in the Event, it didn't play when I played Minor but only in Major. Trying to find out what's wrong, I went into the Event's onboard Style Edit and saw that there was a separate Minor version without me having created it. Then I did the very simple thing: I deleted the Minor version, saved the style again and everything was fixed now. By the way as you well know this kind of editing is simply a no-go (on board) on any Yamaha Arranger keyboard and I honestly don't know why they are so (closed) on editing.
Anyway, out of curiosity (to avoid a similar mistake in the future) I reopened this midi style project in Cubase 12 and I discovered that within a variation some notes had escaped a little to the right of the Major Marker and had entered the Minor Marker resulting in (accidentally) creating a minor version which I deleted directly in the Event.
And I'm sorry to say it again but it doesn't make sense to call something a Workstation without providing all the tools needed to create something on board.
And unfortunately, Yamaha at this point (when it comes to on board edit on arrangers keyboards) he is not doing well at all.
I apologize if I upset some friends about this. As you know I still have Genos and I'm still working with it in my Lives (since music is my main job) because I haven't prepared the Event yet.
And since our friend Jeff above asks about Midi files in the Event, I'd like you to watch a video I uploaded a few days ago about this item.
Thanks
https://youtu.be/cdXv_usWa54
I would say the Genos is much easier/more straightforward to use than the Korg Pa5X. I couldn't figure out how the Matrix pads on the Pa5X worked at all, or at least how to customise them with your own recordings. I looked at a video and understood it even less afterwards. No joke. If you want to give yourself a headache try following along: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B70jZuqEXzI&t=2s&ab_channel=ForeverLearning
Hi Sokratis,Hi Riki.
actually, pretty sure it wasn’t my mistake after all, the guy who did the video ( at roughly 6 minutes in) said to change extension from .kst to .mid , do the editing, change extension back to .kst . That of course doesn’t work.
Makes one wonder what else he may not have quite correct. I don’t think he actually has hands on experience with it yet.😀
So thank you. Basically I’ve been trying to find if Ketron event midi based styles ( not audio) could be created and edited in a Daw and if there is some sort of import/export function similar to my Korg .
So if I’m understanding correctly, I would just have to change .kst to .mid , load into daw , edit, re-save as .mid 0 and load back into Ketron ? if so ,that is super easy.
What is Event’s “onboard style edit” ie is there some sort of event list editor ie for notes, controllers etc or are you referring to something else altogether.
The guy in the video also mentioned something about creating your own audio styles ( about 5 min in). He was talking about hiring musicians to help record your loops ( maybe a bit expensive 😟), but could you actually create an audio style using your own audio loops ie just say strumming guitar.
Where would these loops have to be saved ie in Ketron itself or external storage.
My Band in a box software springs to mind as a possible loop source. They do take up a lot of storage capacity, hence the question, is it even possible? I might have misunderstood what he was suggesting.
Last question, towards end of video he said it has a sampler. I thought it was only capable of editing samples, if it does have one, then brilliant.
https://youtu.be/7ILXMhnqabE
Thank you
Question for Sokratis...
I look at english Event manual (page 154):
A Sample is a WAV file, suitably treated and cut with a maximum duration of about 6 seconds
Maybe I understand above in a wrong context, but 6 second is kinda short time for a sample. For example, if creating custom piano voice, then a single piano note may require a sample length of 15+ seconds. Can you elaborate? Thank you.
Bogdan
Wow! What an eye-opener. Many thanks to Bojan Bojovic of Dynamix Audio for his no holds barred approach to the Ketron Event. The Event is now entirely off my purchase list. From the look of things, Ketron engineers seem to have never played an arranger keyboard. Engineers themselves are highly technical mathematicians in many cases but if they don't know anything about music or more importantly, playing a musical instrument, in this case, an electronic keyboard, the results can be hugely disappointing as is the case with the Ketron Event, apparently. Unless someone who works with Ketron would like to refute Bojovic's review and critique of the Event. Ketron started way back in the 1980s, so it's not like they're starting from scratch with little experience. Ketron is of course a very small company that employs between 26 and 39 people depending on the economic circumstances, I reckon. They have a small presence in the USA, but the Ketron USA website has NO information about the Event whatsoever. Even the Ketron Italy website which does have information about the Event has stated it's OUT OF STOCK for the last couple of months or longer. Apparently, Ketron's second shipment of Events will be in March, but if they only have around 40 people putting them together, I imagine there will only be a couple of hundred or so that will eventually ship in March. And if this new YouTube video gets a lot more traction i.e. a lot more views from the keyboard community, Ketron might not be able to sell all the batch they do ship out. We all wish Ketron well from a business standpoint, but facts are facts and if Ketron can't cut the mustard then obviously people will look elsewhere for their arranger keyboard needs. Once again, it's always best to play a keyboard first, up close and personal, before deciding to lay down your hard-earned cash. Which would include the Genos2 unless a person has no way to play one beforehand. That could have been the case with Bojan Bojovic. Lessons learned.
All the best, Mike USA
hi Rikki,
As I said, maybe I understood that 6sec limitation wrongly.. anyway, it should be clarified to avoid confusion.
I don't know if there is a length limit on my SX700.. there probably is, but I never hit it -so, it's non existent for me. Pa5X has limit of 21sec? Well, I could easily live with that, I guess :)
I wish to emphasize again, that's not my intention to bash any keyboard or brand and I also don't try to convince anyone. Everybody should make his own conclusion and decision based on available information.
Now stop reading my blubbering and go practicing on whatever clunky keyboard you have ;D
Bogdan
Question for Sokratis...Dear Bogdan.
I look at english Event manual (page 154):
A Sample is a WAV file, suitably treated and cut with a maximum duration of about 6 seconds
Maybe I understand above in a wrong context, but 6 second is kinda short time for a sample. For example, if creating custom piano voice, then a single piano note may require a sample length of 15+ seconds. Can you elaborate? Thank you.
Additional thoughts...
I think Ketron should make it's web page much more international (english) friendly. As it is now, even if switching to english language, a lot of content is still shown in italian only. There can be no excuse for this and only presents Ketron as some "garage" company (no pun intended).
On main page I see "New Event software available" (since 14th of February), but if I click on link button (written in italian), I get "Page not found" -again, such things shouldn't happen.
Bogdan
I realize more and more, how difficult is is to get a complete picture of some product (not only Ketron Event). The thing is, big majority of so called "reviews" and "honest opinions" are actually advertisements (paid one way or another). And then we have reviews or opinions coming from actual owner. Here we need to be careful again. Many times his previous keyboard is some older model, or is entirely in different (lower) class. And when that's the case, it's to be expected the reviewer to be over-excited and so, not really objective. The third thing that happens is, the reviewer mostly emphasizes on positive aspects of his new toy (and many times bashes competing products at that). Why? Don't know... maybe they feel better if they can somehow justify (and hopefully get confirmation about) their decision.
Why I made so long introduction? It's because of the following video, that just appeared on Youtube:
Ketron Event! Is it better than Medeli AKX10?! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XPpodkpiGg)
And so, as always, there's no bad or good keyboard. What matters is, which is the best for our needs -and no matter what we choose, there will always be a compromise.
Bogdan
Don't think I could use the Event based on that video. It's worse than the Pa5X. Endlessly farting around with the menus.
Hey Sokratis :Hi Jeff.
What is your reaction on Andrew's impression of the Event's screen use ?
Plse advise. Thanks, JH
Hi Sokratis,Thanks Bogdan.
Thank you for explaining, I really appreciate. I'm not some piano player and I'm aware that it's quite rare to play single piano note for longer period of time. However, I do think that 6sec could be a limitation for those who play Classical piano pieces -in that case, it's not only about recognizing that the piano is being played. The thing is, piano basically only has two articulations that player uses: touch sensitivity and sustain -and both are equally important. I think, that's less problematic in case of accordion voice or similar, because here, voice is usually looped (and so 6sec is more than enough).
Now about Event vs Medeli video... Here I agree with Mark (above). We should interpret that video carefully -that was the reason for my longer intro in that post. What I'm saying is, Medeli is basically an SX700 class keyboard (at astonishing price, though) and as such, it can't be compared to any TOTL arranger. However, author of that video did make some valid points... I still think, that Yamaha has by far the best interface (incl. panel buttons) among arrangers: it's very aesthetic, logical, informative and easy to use. Korg has similar approach, but not there just yet in my opinion.
Event however, as soon we go into some options/settings, all we see is buttons, which all look the same, without any icons or similar (so we could differentiate them quickly). It somehow reminds me on control room of some nuclear plant (I never been there, though). And I also noticed that all names (buttons, voices, etc.) are written in capital letters and so they appear even more similar. Also, words are separated with underline ("_") character... which again, reminds me on old DOS times.
From what I've seen and heard so far, I do believe that one can make exceptional performance on Event. But for many, that alone just isn't enough (considering the price).
Bogdan
...Yamaha... However, here too there are weaknesses and limitations (mainly on board) and I don't think we need to mention them again.Absolutely agree!
Hi Chris,
I made a really big mess tonight. I feel very embarrassed. Can you remove and delete my profile. Thank you.
Another question, Sokratis :
Does the Event have midi multipads like most Yamaha's and Korg's ?
Thanks for your reply, JH
Hi Danny, hope you’re not planning on leaving 😞I'm not leaving either but thanks for asking. After 3,000 or so posts, it didn't seem logical.
I'm not leaving either but thanks for asking. After 3,000 or so posts, it didn't seem logical.Hi Lee
Danny made an interesting comment about Genos players of all levels just being button pushers - or something like that. I can't remember the whole comment because the way this forum handles replies that invoke conflicts is to just press the Delete key, which makes all things just go away.
...
Hi Jeff, couldn’t find anything on multipads, so don’t think so, has got an interesting feature, think it’s phrase. Think it was on one of AJAMSONIC demos. A saxophone appeared to be playing a solo, bit like the soloists in BIAB. I wasn’t playing that close an attention, I was trying not to burn dinner at the time😀 anyway whatever was going on sounded pretty amazing. If Sokratis is still around, maybe he can tell us about it. ( hopefully I wasn’t just daydreaming 😶🌫️ )Riki and Jeff.
Riki and Jeff.
The Event does not have a Multiband (for now). However, there is a possibility for something very powerful, but this is not of the present. However what you heard (with the saxophone) was just an Audio Real chord which normally accompanies our chords as if they were midi chords.
This is the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaAwJCnEeLg
By the way, because it's always been heard that Ketron only has Audio styles and although I've said that she's also very good in midi, listen to a 100% midi style from the Event.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrW_6sM8qTQ
Thanks
Hi Sokratis,hahahahah Sorry.. This was the (keyboard demon) Multipad I meant. ;D :)
I have no idea what multi band is.
That sax clip is what I was referring too .
That midi styles sounds great, takes me back. Haha, (showing my age ) . Talented performer.
Thanks Sokratis
Hi :
3 new high end arrangers in 2023/24 : ( 1 ) Event, Ketron, ( 2 ) PA5X, Korg and later on this year ( 3 ) a Yamaha Genos' successor ...
What is the best choice ? : # 1,# 2 or # 3 ( = we do not know yet ).
I absolutely cannot answer that question ... only the individual customer is the real decision maker. ;D
but if I am not mistaken I've seen people on the Korg forums call on Korg to add audio drums in their keyboards.
I personally prefer midi styles ... I hope a lot of new midi styles will be added in the new high end arranger. I think most people would be very happy.
BUT ... only time will tell. :D
Take care, JH
Hi Danny are you sure it’s audio drums? not something like revo drums,
Hi Rikki,Hi Danny, didn’t spot the bit on the drums. A number are upset that some of the Pa4x functions haven’t been implemented (YET) on PA5x, new operating systems take time I suppose. They have quite a few scheduled for next update may/June. Looking forward to getting a number of the style editing functions back onboard, most of my style editing was done in xgworks, so hasn’t affected me personally, either way.😀
I am pretty sure I read the comments after the Pa5x was released from some forum members who were disappointed with the Pa5x compared to the Pa4x, this is also with the knowledge that Korg had implemented the "Revo" drums system called Round Robin, but I guess users were still not happy! I think the Pa5x drums already sound great as they are to me.
Hello Sokratis :Hello Jeff. I'm not entirely sure but I think towards the end of 2023.
Will the Event Module be available in 2023/2024 ?
Thanks for your reply.
Best wishes, JH
Most of my style editing was done in xgworks.
Hi Rikki :
Do you use XGW for your Korg too ?
It might be possible if you made a separate PA Voice list in XGW.
Did you ? ... Or do you use XGW for the SX900 only ?
IMHO there is not an SX900 available, right ?
Best wishes, JH
It would be incredible if Tony of Bonners did a full demo of it, I think it could get me curious.
True, if Tony does a demo and evaluates the Event, it could be really important, both ways....
...-you didn't watch whole video (the talk about registrations) and so it's kinda unfair to give thumb down.
I didn't watch the whole video but I'd be concerned about the lack of Registration buttons, unless they're somewhere else. I didn't see any 👎.
-you didn't watch whole video (the talk about registrations) and so it's kinda unfair to give thumb down.Agreed, Bogdan. Actually, I finished watching the video. You can create registrations but only through the screen and in a somewhat convoluted manner, unless I missed something. The Event still looks like a "computer first and musical instrument after." That doesn't work for the serious stage player. We need access to key functions through dedicated buttons, not touch screen options and menus. We simply do not have the time to do these things any other way.
I totally understand that not everyone might like Event.. same can be said for Korg or Yamaha -it's just great that we have choices.
Bogdan
New video about Event was just published:
AjamSonic: Event Q&A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dULXT00bnJM)
I find it quite informative. As I always say, it's not about which keyboard is the best in the world -it's about which is the best for you.
Bogdan
...I really like the OS, it's very similar to my SD60 which I find easy and intuitive to use so I'm glad to see that the system is retained in the Event also.-now that is interesting that you say that. Ant that actually proves, that it's hard to "judge" things without trying them for at least few days. As you noticed, we tend to criticize every OS if it doesn't look like on Yamaha.. and if it does, then we say "eh, is a Yamaha copy". On the other hand, when I bough my first Yamaha, it also wasn't everything that obvious to me -means, certain time is needed to understand the idea behind.
...
My opinion about Event user interface is mixed... but one is for sure, it would help immensely, if it would have more graphical elements: icons, different sections coloring/shading, etc. Now it looks quite monotone and confusing -one can easy get lost in various options.
Bogdan
but it will be very hard for Ketron to convince Yamaha customers to change their mind.
Best wishes, JH
But, like most musicians, I'll buy whatever instrument is best for me.
Agreed, Bogdan. Actually, I finished watching the video. You can create registrations but only through the screen and in a somewhat convoluted manner, unless I missed something. The Event still looks like a "computer first and musical instrument after." That doesn't work for the serious stage player. We need access to key functions through dedicated buttons, not touch screen options and menus. We simply do not have the time to do these things any other way.It strikes me that you talk about the lack of Event switches when many of you (like me) have Genos.
So, we're going to play a question and answer game and I'm just going to put in real facts.
The price at Bonners is about the same as a Genos, so pricewise what is the advantage of this over a Yamaha?
The price at Bonners is about the same as a Genos, so pricewise what is the advantage of this over a Yamaha?
The price at Bonners is about the same as a Genos, sopricewisewhat is the advantage of this over a Yamaha?
I have purchased an Event and it's arriving Monday :)Congrats Danny! So far I'm quite impressed by Event and I really hope it won't disappoint you :)
Thank you Guys, appreciate the warm comments :)My congratulations Danny. If you need any help, don't hesitate to contact me.
Yes of course I will give feedback on the keyboard. I will stress that this is not replacing my Genos or any of the other current TOTL's that I have although I will offload some of my older keyboards to make up for it.
I think the fact that Bonners are stocking it was what tipped it in it's favour because I initially had no intention of getting one as traditionally the Ketron's have always been hard to get hold of in the UK, eg, when I bought the SD7 and SD60 I had to wait many weeks before it arrived in the UK from Italy as the only way to get one was from the Ketron UK distributor. So its refreshing that I can order a Ketron to arrive a couple of days later, that's more like it! I think it would pair up very well with the Genos.
Dear Sokratis :Thank you so much Jeff. I find it difficult to create a new forum for many reasons. The main reason is that it requires too much time which my professional and personal obligations do not allow.
Herewith I would like to thank you for your kind intention to help ALL people who are going to buy an Event.
That is absolutely wonderful and very encouraging for all new owners.
IMHO It might be a very good idea to start a seperate, new Forum : EVENT SUPPORT.
Take care, JH
I have purchased an Event and it's arriving Monday :)
Mike,I would like to hear "real voices" in solo mode.
I got my EVENT from AJ last week. I eagerly awaited its arrival as the demos were fabulous, and the riffs that followed the chords were intriguing.
Alas, my fascination was short-lived. I was disappointed, so I sent it back today and got stuck with a 20% restocking fee.
There are no multi-pads while Genos & PA5X have 4. The factory styles & sounds are much less than the other 2 KBs. The riffs that follow the chords are in very few styles, they are recorded in the styles, like the Sax & Harmonica in 2 different styles I found.
Although you could save 4096 registration in the machine, accessing them is a major problem; data wheel browsing, selection by a number, or scrolling through pages were the cumbersome options.
There are two main voices are selectable easily by buttons; other voices are there, but selecting them is not quick.
There are three intros & 4 endings, and breaks; selecting them on the fly could be done only through the touch screen by selecting the Intro/Ending button, which brings up the screen buttons that has to be kept on screen for it to be used.
The real voices, real bass, and real everything are fabulous; nowhere else have I found this feature.
The learning curve to master the touch screen functions is likely to be not short, as there are hundreds of functions and customizations available, but I cannot see them being done on stage, live or even in a studio unless one spends enough time to program your set completely in the studio first.
So, please don't take my word for it as I am a hobbyist, and a professional review would really be valuable & helpful from stage artist.
It appeared very complex for someone like me who did not want to spend time diving deep into the machine, but would like to enjoy playing it quickly.
Hopefully, the upcoming Yamaha flagship arranger would do the trick most adequately, and I will be waiting for it with bated breath.
The EVENT would be the ultimate KB for specific musicians, but not for me. Again, it boils down to what works for you!
Uday
:)
@Rikki,
Yes, I did keep the PA5X and am loving it even more now. The monthly webinars from Korg UK(Adam & Luke), and the cost free soundpacks/styles from Korg UK are fantastic( 2 so far).
Uday
:)
Besides, I'll have no choice but to wait at least three months because I'm a Canadian. We don't count when it comes to Yamaha's distribution model. We're always last and yet we produce some of the world's best performers. Go figure...
----
Oh the Nord Grand is the only one that doesn't use the standard clacky Fatar keys, and the piano samples are *fantastic*. However, still not a wooden key. If you're looking for a better key feel and a better piano sound than the P515 (which is middling), try the CP88. I would've suggested one of the new wooden key Casios (PXS5000-7000), but oddly, they only offer USB B midi out, not standard 5 pin, rendering them difficult to use as a master KB.
One of my customers tried slaving a PSRsx900 from a Casio PXS1000... and weirdly it *worked* using a custom USB B to B cable. But it's not supposed to! :p
Baffling decision to leave out 5 pin midi, but *wow* are they ever compact and light. Wood/resin hybrid 88 keys weighs 25 lbs *with* built in speakers... the next lightest with built in speakers is the P515 which comes in a 49.5lbs.
If sound is more important than the key action, I'd go with the Nord Grand. If key action is most important I'd go with the CP88. If you want good key action (not as good as the Yamahas but superior to everyone else) and lightweight portability? Try one of the PXS5000/6000/7000. Crazy light. But you'll need to buy a USB B to B cable if you want to run a master/slave setup on your Genos.
Mark
This is the second Event that had to go. ???Sadly, maybe not up expectation.
What is the problem ?
JH
Sadly, maybe not up expectation.I wonder that two. Every demo I've seen has been through YouTube. Even with top quality speakers, YouTube can sound mediocre due to their compression modes. Once these guys got the Event home, it may have sounded only marginally better.
Make's me a bit wonder (from an other site) ::)Hi. I also saw this ad which was published in two Ketron Facebook groups. If I remember correctly (because he probably deleted them) there was an Italian guy who said in his description that he was selling it to buy the Pa5x 76. When people started asking him in the comments why he was selling it or if he had a problem, he said that he had no problem. Simple curiosity. So, I will speak to you as always as a person who is still working with Genos and preparing the Event for work. I personally cannot know what everyone is thinking or how they are thinking when they buy something. But as a professional musician which is my main job, I can tell you that I too have been in this position, (much earlier) buying an instrument which I finally realized was not for me, so I sold it in two months. It was a Korg Pa1x, and if I remember correctly, it was 2003. But the problem then was different. I don't know how many of you know that I'm Greek man and I live in the Greek island (Crete), so it wasn't easy to try an instrument because I had to travel by plane 35 minutes, or 10 hours by boat, to go to Athens where the Korg representative is located.
"Ketron Event two and a half months dj life in perfect condition with purchase invoice and original packaging
Selling due to non-use I can ship it €3950 not negotiable"
I cannot fault the Genos and the next one is surely worth the wait. (5 years now) Something will happen for sure.
I do not like the sound of the Korg PAX5 and too many if's and but's attached to the Ketron
"Will they spill the beans at this years NAMM?? 8)
Andrew, you are most welcome!
Since you did end up with the cp88, make sure you download the latest firmware... it includes both a Bosendorfer and a Steinway sample. Both of which sound really great! Detailed and expressive.
Mark
Very well summarized Sokratis -one can't repeat these things often enough.Hello Bogdan.
Most here are hobby musicians and too many times we (wish to) buy new keyboard just to have new toy to play with. But if we don't know why exactly we need new keyboard, disappointment usually follows. What I'm saying is, someone can be happier with PSR-SX600 than someone with Genos. Not because PSR-SX600 would be better, but because he made right decision for him. Yes, Genos has "this and that", but who cares if "this and that" is later never used. When buying, we shouldn't look for "the best" keyboard... we should concentrate on things that matter to each one individually.
Having SX700 for few years now (and two Yamaha's before), I know quite well what I like, what I'm missing, what I wish to be better and what I need. If I find such keyboard and I can afford it, I'll buy it -doesn't matter who makes it.
Finding objective information is not easy... because nobody talks about limitations and explains them (as practical consequences). Yes, if lucky, we can tryout keyboard for few minutes in local store. But let's be frank, the only thing we can check is keybed and panel buttons -and that's it. There's not enough time to get an impression of style & voices management, style & voice creation, connectivity flexibility, recording options, etc.
And then, there are "little things" that we many times don't even notice. For example, on Ketron Event, wav sample length is limited to 6 seconds, which in my opinion, is extremely short. I don't know, maybe long sustain is solved differently on Event, but nobody talks about that. Ok, I'm not some pianist, and so 6sec is probably not an issue for me... but it's an 5000€ keyboard, where piano (or any voice) is expected to be flawless -it's simply assumed at that price. That is, Event might be excellent keyboard for me, but how can I know that, if nobody honestly talks about it's limitations and workarounds?
I think above is the main reason why we tend to stick with brand we have... we just try to avoid bad surprises (especially at high priced keyboards). On the other hand, by doing that way, we maybe miss having "the perfect" keyboard :)
Bogdan
In 2002 Yamaha lauched their Tyros and were the market leaders in a blink of an eye.
Since then Yamaha never lost their #1 position and are still the market leaders today ... for the next decades. :D, IMO
JH
And being at that, every keyboard brand/model has some limitations.. the only question is, which of them we are ready to accept. And many times we must also be ready to adapt, so we can benefit of having some features which doesn't exist on another keyboard -we shouldn't be afraid of learning new things.
As for Yamaha being a market leader... Casio might be market leader in wrist watches, but Rolex is still considered as better brand
@SokratisCasio might be market leader in wrist watches, but Rolex is still considered as better brand 8)
Bogdan
I just checked and all Rolex watches come with only a 5 year warranty. For $5,000 or more for a watch, that ought to be a LIFETIME warranty. Rolex warranties are now totally untransferable.
By the way ... all the Rolex watches I viewed only have the TIME and DATE (the same as a TIMEX watch). My $22 Casio has the TIME, DATE and tells most importantly what "DAY" it is. Also it came with a 7 year battery. ;)
I just did the math: By purchasing a $22 Casio verses a $5000 Rolex, I earn an average of $448 every year (for life) by getting the Casio.
Another example would be for Korg PA5x, where song recording (onboard) is only possible in mp3 format. For me, that's not a problem at all (if really needed, one can still record in wav format by using Line out)
Bogdan
Hi Guys :No reason when there is no reason.
I absolutely agree one has to buy an arranger he wants and he likes. Why not ? We are all free people. ;)
At the end of this year we might expect 3 highend arrangers : Ketron, Korg and hopefully Yamaha.
However all individual arrangers have a different OS.
I am very familiar with Yamaha's OS for more than 22 years now. Never let me down.
I have gathered so much Yamaha software during all these years.
Gimme one simple reason why a happy customer should go for another brand ... :)
Best regards, JH
Hi Bogdan, it does have a 16 track sequencer, ( doesn’t do quick record currently) or are you referring to the audio recording side of things , where it does only record in mp3 format.I was referring to on-board audio recording of the song that musician plays, which can only saved in mp3 format. As I mentioned, I don't see that as limitation -it's good enough for listening and online (Youtube) publishing. As for "serious" work, it's expected that keyboard will be connected to PC via separate mixer/audio-interface and in this case, we can record in wav format (for further mixing and fine tuning).
...Yeah, is funny with these things... now imagine: For 5000€ TOTL keyboard one needs to buy loudspeakers separately, while 700€ SX600 has them already built in -I'm sure you get the point :)
By the way ... all the Rolex watches I viewed only have the TIME and DATE (the same as a TIMEX watch). My $22 Casio has the TIME, DATE and tells most importantly what "DAY" it is....
Hi Rikki,Hi Bogdan, thought that might be the case. For me mp3 would be more than enough
I was referring to on-board audio recording of the song that musician plays, which can only saved in mp3 format. As I mentioned, I don't see that as limitation -it's good enough for listening and online (Youtube) publishing. As for "serious" work, it's expected that keyboard will be connected to PC via separate mixer/audio-interface and in this case, we can record in wav format (for further mixing and fine tuning).
And again, I just mentioned mp3 "limitation" as an example.. to show how different wishes, needs and priorities we all have.
Bogdan
Hello Danny :
It would be very interesting to let us know why you are happy with your new Event.
BTW ... I am only interested in the pros. :D
Thanks in advance.
Best regards, JH
Speaking of speakers (haha), the SX900 speakers are pretty good for internal speakers, I can keep up with a band.Must be a pretty quiet band ;D. At any rate, good to hear (no pun intended).
Let me first thank for your very interesting reply, Danny. :)
It looks like you are very pleased with this new high end arranger.
It also sounds like you have received what you were expecting and even much more. I am so happy for you.
CONGRATULATIONS !
I would be very grateful to let me know your net purchasing price.
If you can share this amount with me plse
be so kind to send me a PM.
If that is not possible for you I will understand and respect that.
Enjoy your new instrument !
Best wishes, JH
... a different OS requires a new investment from you to get to know it...-straight to the point. We shouldn't expect different brands to have similar OS or workflow -if that would be the case, then there would be no progress.
being a Yamaha keyboard player for more than 22 years, I have never been disappointed.
I am not convinced why I should go for another brand despite all pros and cons.
I actually expect that the new Yamaha will be more different (also with regard to the operating system) than the transitions between the various models. Even more than the transition between the Tyros 5 and the Genos. So there will be quite a learning curve in that as well.
...The Genos is the first keyboard model after ten years to have a completely different OS (and user interface).-kindly disagree Maarten.
...
why was new name (Genos) chosenA new CPU generation (the same as Montage). PJD is the expert.
Hi :
If the Genos2 is just an extensive Genos' update instead of a real upgrade most customers would be very surprised and perhaps really disappointed.
IMHO most Yamaha fans, after 6 years time, are expecting a complete new high end arranger that will beat all competition. ;)
JH
hi everyone,I also like information about other brands in threads, but I also like to let people talk about the Genos, and comparisons to the Genos in a thread initiated to discuss other hardware. Some disgressions can't be prevented.
I know that this is Genos section and that some are getting tired reading about Korg or Ketron, but I think it's good for everyone to be informed.
Here's a the latest relative short video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zZdLtvu7As) about Ketron, which answers some questions.
Bogdan
hi everyone,That's about the SD90 module ... not the Event ..
I know that this is Genos section and that some are getting tired reading about Korg or Ketron, but I think it's good for everyone to be informed.
Here's a the latest relative short video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zZdLtvu7As) about Ketron, which answers some questions.
Bogdan
Hi :
Since competition starts to be more and more active in the market now, it would be wonderful if Yamaha should start to tell the entire arranger world a little bit about their new Genos' successor plans.
Even if this news is just a tip of the iceberg ...
On the other hand I am suspecting Yamaha are obliged to sell their present Genos' stock first.
Not too late yet ?
JH
hi everyone,
I know that this is Genos section and that some are getting tired reading about Korg or Ketron, but I think it's good for everyone to be informed.
Here's a the latest relative short video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zZdLtvu7As) about Ketron, which answers some questions.
Bogdan
It looks like the UK dealers are usually the first people who are receiving the first new arranger shipments, right ?
JH
If they can give updates for the YC series, why can't they do the same for the Genos?To sell YC series to Genos users.
If they can give updates for the YC series, why can't they do the same for the Genos?That's called, "Shooting yourself in the foot." If Yamaha gave the Genos those new voices, I wouldn't even bother looking at Genos 2. Many other pro players may feel the same.
That's called, "Shooting yourself in the foot." If Yamaha gave the Genos those new voices, I wouldn't even bother looking at Genos 2. Many other pro players may feel the same.
How Yamaha can provide such stellar orchestral voices, a half decent OS, and touch screen but such terrible primary voices is beyond me. Worse, when Genos 2 arrives, it will likely come with these voices upgraded but the price tag will be stupidly ridiculous. I'm considering my options at this time because I need really good B3 voices. The current ones are an embarrassment.
A 61 key Ketron Event is on its way.
https://www.dv247.com/en_GB/GBP/Ketron-EVENT-61/art-KEY0005802-000
Seems a bit of a lousy price difference / discount to opt for the smaller one at the moment. I guess people would only go for it if they absolutely need the compactness.
Bit strange there is still no Bonners demo from Tony. The Event seems to be out of stock there. Other stores seem to be getting the 61 key and the original 76 key back in stock in the next few weeks.
After saying that, I agree with you: Yamaha needs something better than just an "upgrade" in next arranger generation. And I don't only mean "new piano and sax".. complete voice set must be new. As it is now, I think that quite a lot of "main" voices are actually taken from XG/GM2 voices, with only different settings (effects) applied -because, as you said, some are just embarrassing.
Yes, I do believe that next Genos will actually be new arranger -it must be, because Yamaha has no choice.
Just sharing my thoughts,
I am dreaming the Genos' successor will be a " NEW " arranger, a significant difference compared to the latest models of the competition.
I am hoping it is not a dream but a fact. ;)
I'm confident Yamaha will release a block-buster in the Genos 2 but I fear the price will be so far out of reach due to many of the world's issues at the moment.
Hey Danny :
Reportedly it is Ketron's intention to manufacture/add another new arranger ( in 2024 ? ) that would be lower in price than the Event 61n and 76n ( less bells and whistles ).
Not true or ... just a rumour ... I really do not know, sorry. :P
Best wishes, JH
As far as Yamaha's new high end arranger is concerned : a much higher price ? ( comparable to the price increase of the CVP 900 serie ? ) :D :D :D
Best wishes, JH
If we listen to the music, played on a high end Yamaha arranger by Peter Baartmans ( during a dealer's demo e.g. ), the sound quality of his instrument is always so good.
Why ?
I cannot answer that question.
Apparently arranger manufacturers are obliged ( for their own benefit ) to show the best of their newest baby.
Only professional audio equipment will be connected and all these arrangers are played by professional musicians to persuade their potential customers the latest model is the best ever made.
It is what it is.
That marketing tool will never change, I guess.
JH
The same thing happens with the Demo songs loaded onto the Genos. There are several MIDI tracks used to produce these songs. It can be done on the Genos MIDI recorder but good luck editing to that final audio stage.
l have been to a few of Peter Baartmans concerts, and Peter is upfront and states he records additional tracks to enhance the performance.I thought so. He's still a stellar player but I think Yamaha should insist on him playing the raw Genos. That's borderline deceitful because many users don't realize he's using additional tracks.
Russ
I watched Event Part 3, but it doesn’t convince me to give up my Yamaha. Should Yamaha produce a new flagship, I’ll be curious the check out the styles closely. How realistic will they be? Do the style programmers alone decide on the final choice of instruments and mix of each style? For realism, I’d hope that Yamaha would consult with experienced recording engineers, producers, or mastering personnel for decisions on panning, reverb/effects, default tempo etc. to reflect what they might do in an actual recording studio, given the style under consideration.
It is also a public secret Peter B will receive the newest Yamaha high end arranger in June, July 2023 and will show it to the public at the end of 2023.Hi Jeff. This is interesting and suggests that we could see a Genos 2 by late fall. How accurate do you think this idea is? Where did you hear this? Thanks...
As usual he needs approx. 3 months to find out all ins and outs ( even the weaknesses ! ) of the newest Yamaha arranger.
"You have a lot arranger keyboards of most well known brands.
About more than 20 models, am I right ?
Are all of them arrangers?"
Are you a collector ( hobby ) or are you buying and selling them too ?
"What is your favourite brand, model and why ?
Are you playing daily ?"
Hi Jeff. This is interesting and suggests that we could see a Genos 2 by late fall. How accurate do you think this idea is? Where did you hear this? Thanks...
I found the biggest problem with Yamaha audio styles was the inability to edit them. They were very amateurish as well. They either need to go big with this concept or go home.
Incidentally, Ketron has just released a massive O.S. update for the Ketron Event, the second update in three months time. I guess Korg PA5X players would wish they could say the same for their arranger......
greeetings,
John
...Changing tempo of preset style, or changing voice or volume of particular track, is not really style editing... I would call that adapting only. Editing style in true sense is changing key sequence (and key parameters) in particular tracks -and this can not be done with preset styles on Yamaha arrangers (at least not officially).
I just read that the Genos Preset Styles cannot be edited or copied.
This is incorrect.
...
@ Bogdan & Danny :
Last but not least ...
If Yamaha are launching some of the " older styles " in their newest arranger keyboard, Yamaha are mostly " upgrading " these older styles due to the newest technology of that new arranger, correct ?
JH
Just an update to my Event Return story.
I received my refund check from AJ 3 months after I returned the KB, after numerous emails. He was in Italy for 2 months! And no one could sign and send me a check until he returned to the US!
I returned it within 4 days of its arrival but I had to shell out a 20% re-stocking fee ($1000) and get paid 3 months later, but I am glad that I received my money, EVENTually!!(Sorry, I couldn't help that), a mixed happy ending.
Moral of the story: I look forward to the new Genos, whenever it is released, and Yamaha's excellent customer service in contrast, as I am sure that Yamaha would never treat a customer with such disdain!
Uday
:)
Sorry to hear of your unfortunate experience, this is why I always would buy from trusted retailers, and I guess for myself I have been lucky since I would never have bought an Event if Bonners in the UK weren't stocking them, I would have just done without. I feel very assured that should I need any support from Bonners they would respond with the highest regard to customer service, as do others such as ePianos, A&C Hamilton, Keysound and so on.
Hi Danny,
again this is one of the differences in the NA experience vs Europe: There is only 1 Ketron dealer in the USA, and 1 in Canada. Which for me, means driving about 4600km* each way just to try one out. Or buy without trying, and deal with restocking *and* shipping fees. :P
*fun fact, if you were to drive from one coast of Canada to the other, it's almost 7000km. By comparison, driving from the northernmost tip of the UK to the southernmost is about 850km!
Mark
Their Event seems to be a nice high end arranger though but completely different ( maybe too complicated in use ? ) than
a Yamaha high end arranger.
Just an update to my Event Return story.
I received my refund check from AJ 3 months after I returned the KB, after numerous emails. He was in Italy for 2 months! And no one could sign and send me a check until he returned to the US!
I returned the KB within 4 days of its arrival but I had to shell out a 20% re-stocking fee ($1000) and get paid 3 months later, but I am glad that I received my money, EVENTually!!(Sorry, I couldn't help that), a mixed happy ending.
Moral of the story: I look forward to the new Genos, whenever it is released, and Yamaha's excellent customer service in contrast, as I am sure that Yamaha would never treat a customer with such disdain!
Uday
:)
Hey Sokratis :Hi Jeff.
Is there a particular reason why the Event has no (multi)pads like Yamaha and Korg ?
Are there alternatives now or ... might there be ( secret ) plans (multi)pads will be installed in the near future ?
Plse advise. Many thanks :).
All the best,
JH
Genos is due for Discontinued