Topic: Click noises

[wibem]

I've read in another forum, that there are click noises, if you switch on  or  off the keyboard. Some people even said that the click noises often occur in special cases. Can you, who have the Genos 2 , confirm these noises? 

[BogdanH]

hello,
What we hear at powering keyboard on and off, is not some click noise... it's just click. It is mechanical sound produced by relay at switching. Relay is used to connect/disconnect audio section (outputs, speakers), which prevents disturbing "thump" sound in loudspeakers when we turn on/off the keyboard.
Almost all audio amplifier (receiver, active loudspeaker, etc.) use the same solution.

Bogdan

[overover]

Genos2 contains only one Relay (that mutes the Headphone Output). The relay is controlled by a special Mute circuit followed by a Relay Control circuit.

All other Mute circuits (for the remaining Outputs) are designed without Relays, i.e. only Transistors are used.


Best regards,
Chris

[wibem]

Does it mean that you hear the relay-  click for the headphone output? I wonder why there is no click on other keyboards, even the Yamaha ones.
Best regards
Wilhelm

[BogdanH]

hi Wilhelm,
I have PSR-SX700 and it does click at power on/off (same for PSR-S775 that I had before).
As Chris mentioned (above), for low power audio connections (i.e. Line-out) that's usually solved electronically. For higher powers (=higher current -->higher capacitance capacitors) that's needed so audio section is (dis)connected with little delay -because (electric) audio signal needs certain time to stabilize.
There exist electronic components (transistor, electronic relay, etc.) and so other solutions are possible as well. However, for higher current, only mechanical relay (=switch) provides galvanic electric separation between audio components.
Btw. you don't hear click trough speakers (or headphones)... what you hear is relay inside keyboard (electro-mechanical component) at switching.
I have no idea how that's solved on cheaper keyboards.

Bogdan

[pjd]

Does it mean that you hear the relay-  click for the headphone output? I wonder why there is no click on other keyboards, even the Yamaha ones.

Hi Wilhelm --

Yes.

Yamaha products are designed by engineering groups/teams which have their own best practices. The headphone output carries more electrical current. The arranger team decided to use a relay, a design which Yamaha has used forever (or so it seems). MODX uses two transistors (roughly in parallel) presumably to handle the higher current. MODX does not click when turned on.

Hope this info helps -- pj

[wibem]

Thanks for your explanations. It's always good to understand, what's going on in this complicated technical world.
It's kind of strange that these clicks don't seem to exist on all Genos 2 keyboards. In a German keyboard forum some people are writing that there is no click at all  on their keyboard. Other people are complaining that these clicks can be heard not only  during the  switching on or off process. 

[robbiedoes]

Well, I can confirm that I have a very loud high tick noise coming out of the amplifier over my speakers when turning on the Genos 2. Even on another PA installation on another location.
Also have a (delayed) very low punch when turning of the Genos2. All by using the power on/off button on the Genos.

I’ve planned to communicate this problem to my dealer. As my Genos 1 is as silent as it should be. So I don’t accept this from the (expensive) Genos 2. In other words: I really want this to be resolved 

PS: it is NOT the click of the internal relay

[EileenL]

To me there is no difference between my Genos1 to Genos2 of the click of the relay cutting in when switching on or off. As instructed by Yamaha I always turn volume to nil and hold the on/off button down until I hear that click which is only very soft.

[d73]

Good morning,
French user
I questioned Yamaha in November 2023 about this problem, who answered me that there was a single relay in the G2, specific to the headphone or speaker output, and that this had no impact on the operation of the G2. They still told me to ask Yamaha Japan what it was.

For my part, these relay noises (not that of the keyboard starting which is normal) appear randomly during the installation of extension packs, copying, moving, deleting files whether on the G2 internally or with USB keys connected. I also have this relay noise from time to time, for example, when manipulating the screen or function buttons while playing a style, which causes a micro cutting of the sounds... (Example I play a style of an extension folder, and during the game I come back to another folder in user or on a usb key)
This happens randomly, as if at a certain moment the G2's memory saturates or fails to manage these "multitasking" functions.

I have just received again, 4 months later, a new email from Yamaha Europe inviting me to take my G2 to after-sales service without any further information...
Having asked the nearest after-sales service (LYON) to me if they could contact Yamaha with my file number to have more information before making the decision to send it back to after-sales service, I received two days ago a response from this after-sales service which informs me that they are awaiting receipt of parts to be changed recommended by Yamaha following my request.

Apparently, it's a direct motherboard change... So I'm waiting for them to confirm receipt of this card to send them my G2.

This problem does not seem to affect all G2s, and on a French forum (Tyros.fr), I identified 4 people who noticed this problem of relays clicking randomly.


Edit: French text removed by overover.

Welcome to the forum, d73! Please respect our forum rules and post here only in English. Thank you, Chris (overover)

[Akki]

Apparently, it's a direct motherboard change... So I'm waiting for them to confirm receipt of this card to send them my G2.

This problem does not seem to affect all G2s, and on a French forum (Tyros.fr), I identified 4 people who noticed this problem of relays clicking randomly.

I was told the same, just decided not to post anything here to avoid arguing, considering many "professional" (personal opinions) previously posted in regard to this/same topic.


P.S. in 5 months, I had hardware problems with 3 Yamaha's, PSR-SX900 (there is my thread in SX900 forums having motherboard issue causing Live Control Popup randomly showing on the screen), and later motherboard problem with 2 G2 (this thread)


Edit by overover: Removed edit notes from quoted text