Author Topic: Transpose Part (voice)  (Read 4524 times)

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Offline jimlaing

Transpose Part (voice)
« on: February 06, 2024, 03:55:07 AM »
I can't seem to find where one can transpose a single 'part' (such as Right3) ... I can see how to "fine tune" the voice, and how to change the octave of the voice, but I can't seem to find (on keyboard or in the manual) how to 'transpose' a voice or part, such as going up 5 semitones or 7, for a special effect I'm trying to do.

Can some one help?  I'm sure it's in the manual, but I looked up 'transpose' and 'pitch' etc., and can't seem to find where to do this. 

Thanks!
Jim
Raleigh, NC, USA / Genos / Tyros5-61 / Lucas Nana 600 / other stuff
 

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2024, 04:43:29 AM »
Hi Jim,

As far as I know, Transpose is a global function. It affects all parts. I've thought of trying to create harmonies the same way but I don't think you can do it. Maybe someone has cracked the secret?

"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2024, 10:27:19 AM »
As you have found out, on keyboard we can only transpose single note for up to (less than) one semitone. This is used to fine tune certain tones of the voice to make it compatible with instrument (i.e. guitar) that some other musician is played. Btw. I don't think that we do that often on keyboard, because the keyboard is usually perfectly tuned -unless voice creator wasn't careful.

I assume, what you wish to create is harmonies -sorry, I'm not that familiar with terminology. For example, when you press C key, R1 should play C note and R2 should play E note. That way we can achieve interesting effect: for example, by playing single notes, it sounds like two clarinets are playing in duet.
Someone would say "why not simply use R1 voice and play both (C and E) notes?". Well, that's just only imitation of real duet: because two clarinets (played by two different musicians) will never sound the same. Beside that, what if we wish diatonic sax and clarinet?

Anyway, we can only achieve that in YEM (particular voice must be unlocked, obviously). Depending on what kind of harmonies we wish to create ("thirds" are quite often used) it can be more or less complicated to achieve desired result (see example in this video).

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline DerekA

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2024, 01:10:34 PM »
It's a very standard option in a synth which has multiple oscillators to be able to set them at intervals (5th, 3rd being most common). So I can understand it being a surprise that this is not possible on the Yamaha arrangers via the panel, much like restricting the voice to only sound over a certain range. It's another one of those things that you would think it would be simple to be implement, but it's never made it onto the final feature list.
Genos
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2024, 01:21:23 PM »
I know what you mean Derek.
Such things actually show the main difference between synth and arranger: synths are primary voices oriented, where arrangers are more composing (rhythm) oriented.
But yeah, I really have no idea why transposing a voice by certain amount of semitones isn't implemented on arrangers.. at least not on Yamaha.

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline DaPaleRider

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2024, 02:14:44 PM »
Maybe you can use the harmony feature if your keyboard supports it.
Yamaha CK61, Yamaha MODX7, Korg Pa5X, Yamaha YH-WL500, Roland Fantom 07, Roland Boutique D-05/TR-08, Logic Pro
 

Offline jimlaing

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2024, 02:58:25 PM »
I'm fairly sure I used to be able to do this on Tyros ... I was indeed going to create a 5th for a synth sound, or I wanted to play a harp glissando on all-black-keys (pentatonic scale) but I wanted to transpose the voice up a certain amount to get the notes I wanted etc. 

It's a bit different from using the "Harmony" effect, which can somewhat do some of this but not quite what I want. 

-J
Raleigh, NC, USA / Genos / Tyros5-61 / Lucas Nana 600 / other stuff
 

Offline ton37

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2024, 03:01:18 PM »
I can't seem to find where one can transpose a single 'part' (such as Right3) ... I can see how to "fine tune" the voice, and how to change the octave of the voice, but I can't seem to find (on keyboard or in the manual) how to 'transpose' a voice or part, such as going up 5 semitones or 7, for a special effect I'm trying to do.

Can some one help?  I'm sure it's in the manual, but I looked up 'transpose' and 'pitch' etc., and can't seem to find where to do this. 

Thanks!
Jim
Could this be something for you? <STYLE CREATOR><SFF EDIT><PLAY ROOT/CHORD> along with the <HIGH KEY/NOTE LIMIT> ?. You can set this for each channel of the style
« Last Edit: February 06, 2024, 03:02:36 PM by ton37 »
My best regards,
Ton
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2024, 03:52:29 PM »
@Ton
No, those settings serve totally different purpose -it doesn't transpose notes.

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2024, 03:56:00 PM »
You might be able to do this with software on the PC using MixMaster or StyleMagic.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline pjd

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2024, 01:00:34 AM »
Hi Jim --

Seems like we ought to know how to do this...  :o  :o

Yamaha usually calls this function "note shift" as distinct from "transpose" as others have noted. The XG synthesis engine knows how to do this (See the XG MULTI-PART MIDI definitions). The trick is setting the note shift for a keyboard voice.

Gotta run, but I hope this comment points in the right direction -- pj
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2024, 08:56:54 AM »
Just so we don't slide into wrong direction... Jim (OP) was asking about shifting/transposing notes for RH voices.

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline DerekA

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2024, 10:29:53 AM »
Perhaps there is an undocumented SYSEX?

I can see this (possibly) being supported in some way for MIDI file payback (via the XG spec) but Yamaha often surprise us with things being different on the panel parts.
Genos
 

Offline ton37

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2024, 10:33:11 AM »
Just so we don't slide into wrong direction... Jim (OP) was asking about shifting/transposing notes for RH voices.

Bogdan
You're right @Bogdan, I thought it was about style editing. Althought I don't read exactly what @JimLaing wants, I have discovered that the new functions assigned to knobs/sliders and joystick are worth studying and trying out. As an example: you can lock a voice on <right3> to an x number of pitches higher or lower using the <HOLD> function on the assigned effects using the Joystick (or the sliders?). This means that Right 1 and 2 remain at the same pitch and Right 3 is then an x number of pitches higher. It is a relatively undiscovered area I think, so one has to delve into it to see the possibilities. Maybe it meets what the OP wants?? ;)
My best regards,
Ton
 

Offline terryB

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2024, 01:36:02 PM »
Jim, I believe you have or used to have a Vconsole, Is it possible to do what you wish to trial using an altered tuning on this ?
Cheers
Terry
 

Offline DerekA

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2024, 02:05:43 PM »
You're right @Bogdan, I thought it was about style editing. Althought I don't read exactly what @JimLaing wants, I have discovered that the new functions assigned to knobs/sliders and joystick are worth studying and trying out. As an example: you can lock a voice on <right3> to an x number of pitches higher or lower using the <HOLD> function on the assigned effects using the Joystick (or the sliders?). This means that Right 1 and 2 remain at the same pitch and Right 3 is then an x number of pitches higher. It is a relatively undiscovered area I think, so one has to delve into it to see the possibilities. Maybe it meets what the OP wants?? ;)

That is *very* interesting. Can you give some step-by-step instructions on how you achieved this "lock" ?
Genos
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2024, 03:51:29 PM »
Ok, I've been thinking about this and came to conclusion, that there would be no benefit if we could transpose a single voice by fixed amount of semitones -because intervals don't have fixed number of semitones between two notes.
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline Wim

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2024, 04:38:08 PM »
I know what you mean Derek.
Such things actually show the main difference between synth and arranger: synths are primary voices oriented, where arrangers are more composing (rhythm) oriented.
But yeah, I really have no idea why transposing a voice by certain amount of semitones isn't implemented on arrangers.. at least not on Yamaha.

Bogdan
[/quote
I don't know if I exactly understand what you mean? Maybe this video help you. It is in German but with Google Translate you can follow it.

https://keyboard-akademie.de/2023/12/13/mull-of-kintyre-so-erstellst-du-den-fast-perfekten-dudelsack/

rgds
Wim
 

Offline ton37

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2024, 05:08:58 PM »
That is *very* interesting. Can you give some step-by-step instructions on how you achieved this "lock" ?
Open the Live control display: <Direct Access>+<touch a slider>

Hi, a short explanation, as there are quit some possibilities with the knobs/sliders and/or joystick.

In this example one can set the Right3 and control the 'Pitch' or 'octave' with the <SLIDER>
Just pay attention to the botomline in the display to (un)check the <RIGHT 3>.

For any effect/assignement to various sliders/knobs ther are zillion other settings.  ;)
« Last Edit: February 07, 2024, 05:10:35 PM by ton37 »
My best regards,
Ton
 

Offline KurtAgain

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2024, 06:13:21 PM »
Ok, I've been thinking about this and came to conclusion, that there would be no benefit if we could transpose a single voice by fixed amount of semitones -because intervals don't have fixed number of semitones between two notes.

I don't understand what you mean. A major third, for example, is always spanning four semitones.

Edit: I think I understand now what you mean: The distance between two notes of a given scale is not the same for all notes.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2024, 06:19:32 PM by KurtAgain »
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2024, 06:28:03 PM »
...
In this example one can set the Right3 and control the 'Pitch' or 'octave' with the <SLIDER>
...
'Pitch' is actually 'Pitch Bend Range' and so valid only for joystick. It's the same as MENU->Menu2->Keyboard/Joystick->Joystick setting -except if Genos has something drastically different.

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2024, 06:35:34 PM »
@Kurt
Yes. For example: C+4semi=C+E =ok, D+4semi=D+F# =not ok (correct is D+3semi=D+F)

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline pjd

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2024, 07:35:48 PM »
@Kurt
Yes. For example: C+4semi=C+E =ok, D+4semi=D+F# =not ok (correct is D+3semi=D+F)

Bogdan

Hi Bogdan -- 

Please r(re)consider "major 3rd" vs. "minor 3rd". Major 3rd is 4 semi-tones, minor third is 3 semi-tones. I have to agree with Kurt.

-- pj
 

Offline ton37

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2024, 07:37:53 PM »
'Pitch' is actually 'Pitch Bend Range' and so valid only for joystick. It's the same as MENU->Menu2->Keyboard/Joystick->Joystick setting -except if Genos has something drastically different.

Bogdan
I know: It was purely intended to draw attention to the possibilities offered by the use of 'programming' the live knobs/sliders etc. It does offer many uses. Whether you want to use it or delve into it is of course your own choice. ;)
My best regards,
Ton
 

Offline pjd

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2024, 07:41:27 PM »
Just so we don't slide into wrong direction... Jim (OP) was asking about shifting/transposing notes for RH voices.

I agree, although I should let Jim speak for himself.  :)

RIGHT1, RIGHT2, RIGHT3 and LEFT are so-called keyboard parts. Yamaha neglected to expose note shift for the keyboard parts. There may very well be undocumented SysEx to control this. Yamaha calls this kind of SysEx "Clavinova compliance".

This is a useful facility since one could set RIGHT1, RIGHT2 and RIGHT3 into a major triad, for example. Or set RIGHT1 and RIGHT2 to an instant, one finger power chord.

All the best -- pj

Dromeus posted some undocumented SysEx, but no note shift, alas: http://keyboards.dromeusik.de/en/sysex/keyboard-part/

« Last Edit: February 07, 2024, 07:43:54 PM by pjd »
 

Offline jimlaing

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2024, 05:43:15 AM »
Hi - as the OP I'll explain a bit more what I want to do.  What I want is simply to 'transpose' (in a similar way that the Transpose works on the whole keyboard), but for a specific part (or parts) that I choose.  I'm feeling 95% sure I did this on a Tyros!  At present, we can 'shift' L, R1, R2, R3 by octave (-2, -1, 0, +1, +2).  But I can't find a way to transpose a part or parts, by semitones.  I could have sworn that we used to be able to do 'transpose part' on the Tyros.

Example: If I want to take the Diapason voice (Classical organ voice) and use it at and 8' and 4' and 2-2/3' (to make a simple organ combination), I put the Diapason voice in R1, R2 and R3.  I leave R1 alone, but I use the Settings to make R2 an octave higher (easy to do).  Then, I'd want to make R3 be "an-octave-and-a-fifth" higher than standard pitch.  That is, I'd have R3 be up one octave AND shifted by 7 semitones.  It would be like playing the Diapason so each note played sounds at 3 different pitches, like a "unified" pipe organ ... I'd experiment with different organ voices to maybe get some unusual/interesting combinations or 'mixtures'.

Another example: I want to play a "black-keys-only" glissando on a Harp voice, to get a "harp arpeggio" type of sound, as harp players often do.  But I want to play a pentatonic scale easily (achievable via playing a glass on only black notes).  But I want to transpose the Harp voice (maybe on R3 for example), up 6 semitones so that when I play an F# it sounds a 'C' note (etc.).  This way I could play all black keys on the Harp, and get a nice harp-sounding arpeggios in the key of C.  This would be easier to demonstrate than it is to write about! :-)

Jim
Raleigh, NC, USA / Genos / Tyros5-61 / Lucas Nana 600 / other stuff
 

Offline ton37

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2024, 06:25:14 AM »
@Jimlainng, than the above mentioned solution to archieve that by using one of the the live functions could be an option, right? ;)
My best regards,
Ton
 

Offline jimlaing

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2024, 07:11:25 AM »
It could be; will have to try it.  I ideally wanted to save whatever I had done (pitch-shift-wise) into a Registration.

-J
Raleigh, NC, USA / Genos / Tyros5-61 / Lucas Nana 600 / other stuff
 

Offline ton37

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2024, 07:55:18 AM »
Indeed, that are Memory Registrations meant for. Pay attention to tick what you want to be stored in Memory Bank and/or use the freeze function to protect your settings  ;)

PS. the link that @Wim quoted in his post above (#17) is also very informative!
« Last Edit: February 08, 2024, 09:26:32 AM by ton37 »
My best regards,
Ton
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2024, 10:25:22 AM »
Hi Bogdan -- 

Please r(re)consider "major 3rd" vs. "minor 3rd". Major 3rd is 4 semi-tones, minor third is 3 semi-tones. I have to agree with Kurt.
"Major 3rd is +4 semi-tones"... that's only a rule for first note for specific key -but that's not true for whole scale of particular key.
For example, if we wish to play major thirds in C-major scale, then it must look like this:
C+4semi=C+E
D+3semi=D+F
E+3semi=E+G
F+4semi=F+A
....
Take a look on video that I mentioned above, specifically at 10minutes.

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline DerekA

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2024, 11:30:22 AM »
@Jimlainng, than the above mentioned solution to archieve that by using one of the the live functions could be an option, right? ;)

I don't think it will work -I'm not convinced it can do anything other than a full octave shift, or +/- 50 cents.
Genos
 

Offline DerekA

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2024, 11:33:43 AM »
I'm feeling 95% sure I did this on a Tyros!  At present, we can 'shift' L, R1, R2, R3 by octave (-2, -1, 0, +1, +2).

I don't this option has ever been possible on the Yamaha arranger lines - only ever the full octave or +/- 50 cents.
Genos
 

Offline ckobu

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2024, 11:43:40 AM »
Unfortunately, we don't have a note shift in any Yamaha arranger that would solve the problem @Jim is having.
We call it TERCE and there is a way to adjust the background tones, but the process is a bit complicated. I explained it in this video.

https://youtu.be/RfmEVpMV-78?si=fCg_KZz9Huderzho
Watch my video channel
 
The following users thanked this post: BogdanH

Offline ton37

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2024, 12:26:50 PM »
I don't think it will work -I'm not convinced it can do anything other than a full octave shift, or +/- 50 cents.

Have you tried? It worked for me. @JimL. wrotes he will look if it works for him? We'll see/read his reaction.  ;)
My best regards,
Ton
 

Offline KurtAgain

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2024, 02:49:38 PM »
"Major 3rd is +4 semi-tones"... that's only a rule for first note for specific key -but that's not true for whole scale of particular key.
For example, if we wish to play major thirds in C-major scale, then it must look like this:
C+4semi=C+E
D+3semi=D+F
E+3semi=E+G
F+4semi=F+A
....
Take a look on video that I mentioned above, specifically at 10minutes.

Bogdan

Sorry Bogdan, but I think you're confusing something. A major third always comprises 4 semitone steps, regardless of the note and regardless of the key - at least in Western music. D+F and E+G in your example are not major thirds, but minor thirds.

In the video he changes the Scale Tuning. And that's something different.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2024, 02:53:17 PM by KurtAgain »
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2024, 03:27:12 PM »
hi Kurt,
I'm far from being an expert and maybe I do miss something.. but watch first 30seconds of ckobu's video (above).

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline KurtAgain

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2024, 03:49:24 PM »
Bogdan, I think we mean different things.

By major third I mean this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_third
And by minor third I mean this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_third

From Wikipedia:
Quote
[...] the major third is a third spanning four semitones [...]
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2024, 05:01:29 PM »
Wikipedia is right, of course. However, there's only example for C note of C major third:
C+4semi =C+E

By strictly following "four semi-notes rule", let's try to play D note in C major third by adding 4 semi-tones:
D+4semi =C+F#
-but that's not D in C major third: it's D in D major third.

Again, I have no musical education and so I stand to be corrected  :)

Greetings,
Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline KurtAgain

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2024, 05:34:24 PM »
Bogdan, maybe I understand the misconception now. Intervals do not depend on a scale. Not all thirds in a major scale are major thirds.

From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scale_(music)):
Quote
For example, in a C major scale the first note is C, the second D, the third E and so on. Two notes can also be numbered in relation to each other: C and E create an interval of a third (in this case a major third); D and F also create a third (in this case a minor third).

Without wanting to sound unpleasant, I have some musical education. I think we shouldn't continue to misuse this thread and better play on our keyboards.  :)

Offline pjd

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2024, 08:00:17 PM »
I looked for a note shift solution, again, and came up empty. The only assignable is "tuning" and that tunes the part up or down in cents (not semitones).

Jim, one potential solution is to create a custom voice in YEM. The custom voice is shifted up (or down) the desired number of semitones. For sure, this is a bit of work...

Your example of defining drawbar footages is a good example. Wish I could suggest an easy solution.

-- pj

Offline ckobu

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2024, 09:29:02 PM »
If Yamaha would enable the simple Note Shift in the Scale setting, which has existed since the old DX7, we could easily and quickly create our own Harmony as desired.
https://youtu.be/hAWWso-kwC4?si=F8yJvicFJ2iuSd6F&t=438
Watch my video channel
 

Offline DerekA

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2024, 10:00:01 PM »

Have you tried? It worked for me. @JimL. wrotes he will look if it works for him? We'll see/read his reaction.  ;)

Yes, I have.

The only options are to shift by octave, or +/- one half semitone.
Genos
 

Offline ton37

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2024, 10:20:41 PM »
Ok, if this doesn't work for the OP's question he will have to look for alternative solutions ... or stick/accept with what the Genos can  archieve  ;)
My best regards,
Ton
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2024, 11:06:05 PM »
I agree with pj, the only way is to create a custom Voice in YEM and save as a single Voice pack. He could create several Voices like that and then save as a custom pack.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline KurtAgain

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2024, 11:11:26 PM »
Just a thought: Don't the DSPs of the Genos have a pitch shift effect? I don't own Genos myself so I can't try it out.
 

Offline Amwilburn

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2024, 11:53:26 PM »
Wow, I feel like I should've jumped in much sooner...

Bogdan is 100% correct. You don't use the same exact distance between notes in semitones due to the nature of scales (+2,+2,+1,+2 +2+2,+1, etc) not having the same number of semitones between *intervals* (which Kurt also correctly pointed out).

When you Harmonize in C scale, even if you use a drop 6th harmony (requires the least amount of variation to maintain), at some points the harmony will be 8 semitones below the melody (C/E), at some points 9 semitones (B/D) and that's just music theory... Intervals are not the same as fixed semitone rangers *unless* you want to play in a 6 note, atonal scale? Which I doubt!

No, there wasn't an *additional* way to do this on T5 per se; but it *can* be accomplished on any Yamaha arranger. The simplest method I can think of is to assign pitch bend to a foot pedal, then specifiy the pitch bend up range (in the case of the OP's desired effect, +6 semitones) and then depress the pedal when needed.

And since you can assign pitch bend to 0 for the other 2 right voices, this is a simple way to produce the intended effect. There are other ways, including reassigning a mod wheel to do the pitch bend, and just leaving it shoved to the top (but as the Genos no longer has a mod wheel, maybe that's what you were thinking of). However, if you hit "lock" with the joystick all the way up, after assigning the Y axis to pitch bend, you'll get the same result.

And yes, you could use a pitch change DSP, but the effect won't be quite the same, as the notes, as you're shifting the sample at that point (try it, it soudns terrible). Actually, pitch bending the note is also shifting the sample (but in a midi triggered way, so it's better). Best of all would be if they allowed us to program a midi harmony with 0 source and 100 for the midi transposed notes (which you also have to do for the pitch shift dsp)


Mark


Offline pjd

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2024, 12:08:11 AM »
And yes, you could use a pitch change DSP, but the effect won't be quite the same, as the notes, as you're shifting the sample at that point (try it, it soudns terrible). Actually, pitch bending the note is also shifting the sample (but in a midi triggered way, so it's better). Best of all would be if they allowed us to program a midi harmony with 0 source and 100 for the midi transposed notes (which you also have to do for the pitch shift DSP)

Thanks, Mark and Kurt.

I tried the pitch shift effect and, as Mark noted, and you get an interesting effect. (Try +7 for a fifth.) "Interesting" might be useful, depending upon your state of mind.  ;)

I also tried inserting a note shift SysEx message into a VCE file: F0 43 10 4C 08 00 08 47 F7, where the 0x47 is +7 semitones. In theory, this should work. But, it breaks something really fundamental in Genos1. [Don't try this at home...]

-- pj
 

Offline jimlaing

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2024, 02:34:31 AM »
If it's not possible (in a simple way similar to how we now can Octave shift or de-tuning of a single 'part'), that is OK, and I'll happily keep enjoying playing my Genos.  It was just something I *thought* (perhaps mistakenly) that I'd done on an earlier arranger.  Maybe it was on my Technics KN arrangers that I have this memory!  :-)

Thanks for the responses and discussion!
-Jim
Raleigh, NC, USA / Genos / Tyros5-61 / Lucas Nana 600 / other stuff
 

Offline ton37

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2024, 08:46:17 AM »
........

No, there wasn't an *additional* way to do this on T5 per se; but it *can* be accomplished on any Yamaha arranger. The simplest method I can think of is to assign pitch bend to a foot pedal, then specifiy the pitch bend up range (in the case of the OP's desired effect, +6 semitones) and then depress the pedal when needed.

And since you can assign pitch bend to 0 for the other 2 right voices, this is a simple way to produce the intended effect. There are other ways, including reassigning a mod wheel to do the pitch bend, and just leaving it shoved to the top (but as the Genos no longer has a mod wheel, maybe that's what you were thinking of). However, if you hit "lock" with the joystick all the way up, after assigning the Y axis to pitch bend, you'll get the same result.

And yes, you could use a pitch change DSP, but the effect won't be quite the same, as the notes, as you're shifting the sample at that point (try it, it soudns terrible). Actually, pitch bending the note is also shifting the sample (but in a midi triggered way, so it's better). Best of all would be if they allowed us to program a midi harmony with 0 source and 100 for the midi transposed notes (which you also have to do for the pitch shift dsp)


Mark
Correct, that was what I pointed out. Even you can do this with a slider or joystick+ hold. (Thought only the G2 has a new joystick function ?) It is the 'simpliest' way to try to  come 'close' to the specific setting that was asked for.  Oh well, it was good to delve in this 'practical theory'. The Genosses can do a lot, but not everything ... ;)
My best regards,
Ton
 

Offline KurtAgain

Re: Transpose Part (voice)
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2024, 08:48:54 AM »
Jim, one last thought:

At the very beginning of this thread you wrote that you want to transpose a voice by seven semitones for a special effect. This is exactly an effect you can achieve with the Harmony function:

Activate:
  • R1
  • R2
  • Harmony

Set Harmony to:
  • Type: 1+5 (that is seven semitones, the so called "Power Chord")
  • Assign: Multi (not Type Multi Assign)

Now the "1" is played by R1 and the "5" is played by R2.

And this always sounds good on every note because "1+5" is a "Perfect Fifth", it is neither major nor minor.

You can even realize your organ voices example by also tuning R2 to "Octave + 1".

Is that what you wanted to achieve?
 
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