Topic: The best arranger that doesn't have a touch screen?

[TheodorHK04]

Hi everyone,
I'm considering getting a high quality arranger keyboard. Since I'm completely blind, touch screens are pretty much unusable for me, so I've narrowed my choice to either the PSR-SX600, PSR-S975 or the Tyros 5. Some of those I would have to buy used, and since I live in Iceland, I would have to pay for some expensive shipping so that the keyboard wouldn't get damaged. So, my question: Should I go with the SX600 or try to find some older model used? Do the styles sound better on the SX600 than for example on the Tyros? The S975 also seems a good option, since it has the DJ styles and the vocoder, but the Tyros had a better flamenco guitar last time I checked, a voice that I would probably rarely use, but I'm a voice hoarder, and it also has S.Art2 voices, more drums and styles.

I was able to try the SX600 at an instrument store. It was the most fun I've ever had with a keyboard, but the voices and styles don't seem as well organized as on the more expensive models, and it worries me that there are under a thousand voices, and only a couple of those are S.Art. Choosing is sooo haarrrd. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[pedro_pedroc]

Hello.
Among sx600, s970 (which is almost the same as sx700), and a tyros 5, I don’t have a doubt I’ll go for a tyros 5.

That’s my choice.

Pedro

[Toril S]

Hello! I have both the S975 and the Tyros 5. Both are great. The Tyros 5 came out in 2013, the 975 in 2018. Depends on how importan the S. art voices are for you. I would stay away from the 600, because you will be more dependent on the screen using it. Note that there is a voice guide function on the newer models, but other blind users say this is far from perfect.

[TheodorHK04]

Yeah, the Tyros 5 is the best option, but I'm slightly worried about the condition of the units after so many years of use. If I find the S975 somewhere, shouldn't I take the chance before it's too late? Is it against some forum rule to ask if anyone knows of a good place to buy these online?

[Toril S]

No, that is OK. I  live in Norway, so I really do not know. You can also consider the S970. This came out in 2017, and is exactly like the S975, only minus some styles, and with a little less memory space.

[LaHawk]

Not sure how having a non touch screen helps with visual impairment. Perhaps button layout?
 
The SX900 and SX700 has both buttons and touch screen, with some help using the voice guide.
Maybe using registration buttons would help linking voices and styles?

Has anyone actually tried voice guide?
https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/psr_sx900_700_vg.html

Demo: https://youtu.be/5kHDPO1z_CE?si=lQpUzEV2W2G1f_ND

[BogdanH]

hi Theodor,
Let me point out few differences between these three keyboards which might be important for you:

Tyros5 has three right hand voices (S975 and S990 have two). If that's important or not for you depends on music genre you wish to play. I could live with two right hand voices, but having one more can be handy sometimes.
Tyros5 has three foot pedal jacks (S975 and S990 have two). Speaking for me, in 95% two pedals are enough, although I sometimes wish I could attach a third one.
It is quite important to keep in mind that Tyros5 doesn't have speakers built in. If external speakers aren't included with used keyboard, then you will need to buy them separately.
Next important thing to know is the capacity of expansion flash card that keyboard has (this card is used for installing additional voices). There exist two capacities (512MB and 1024MB) and as far I know they were only sold by Yamaha.
If you can get 76-key Tyros5, then that can be quite an advantage over PSR-S series. The main disadvantage is it's age, which also depends on how owner handled it.

Among those three, I would pick PSR-S975. My reasons for it are:
It's the youngest and so there are less chances that something would go wrong due aging (keys, buttons,..). It has 768MB of space for additional voices which should be enough and finally, speakers are built in (no additional cost).

I hope that was of some help for you,
Bogdan

PS: just saw LeHawk's post... Yes, SX900 is obviously better. But if one can't benefit of using touch screen, then it's hard to justify much higher price -just my opinion.

[Amwilburn]

hi Theodor,
Let me point out few differences between these three keyboards which might be important for you:

Tyros5 has three right hand voices (S975 and S990 have two). If that's important or not for you depends on music genre you wish to play. I could live with two right hand voices, but having one more can be handy sometimes.
Tyros5 has three foot pedal jacks (S975 and S990 have two). Speaking for me, in 95% two pedals are enough, although I sometimes wish I could attach a third one.
It is quite important to keep in mind that Tyros5 doesn't have speakers built in. If external speakers aren't included with used keyboard, then you will need to buy them separately.
Next important thing to know is the capacity of expansion flash card that keyboard has (this card is used for installing additional voices). There exist two capacities (512MB and 1024MB) and as far I know they were only sold by Yamaha.
If you can get 76-key Tyros5, then that can be quite an advantage over PSR-S series. The main disadvantage is it's age, which also depends on how owner handled it.

Among those three, I would pick PSR-S975. My reasons for it are:
It's the youngest and so there are less chances that something would go wrong due aging (keys, buttons,..). It has 768MB of space for additional voices which should be enough and finally, speakers are built in (no additional cost).

I hope that was of some help for you,
Bogdan

PS: just saw LeHawk's post... Yes, SX900 is obviously better. But if one can't benefit of using touch screen, then it's hard to justify much higher price -just my opinion.

Yup, s970/s975 would be my vote as well, for the same reasons. Even if you do find a used T5, if expansion voices are important to you, there's no guarantee you'll even find a FL ram card (which is required for samples); and also, oddly, a lot of the YEM packs have voices that *don't* work on T5 (Indian voices for example; pretty much only the drum kits were installable). On the other hand, you will be sacrificing the S.Art2 voices from the T5 if you go for a PSR, as well as only 2 right hand voice layers vs 3, as Bogdan has already pointed out.

Mark

[Stubby]

Regarding where to buy, and if you can't find anything local, I suggest at least taking a look at reverb dot com, which has two s975's for sale at the moment.  I haven't purchased from that site but have made a few sales on that website, and think they do a good job protecting both buyer and seller.  A Hammond SX Pro I sold was damaged by UPS while on its way to the buyer, and they immediately stepped in to help, giving the buyer a quick refund and also letting him keep the nearly-new keyboard for parts (which would be worth a decent amount of money).  Also, as far as I know, the ratings shown for the sellers can only be generated by those buyers who have purchased from those sellers.  While I buy inexpensive stuff from eBay, I would advise against buying an expensive keyboard from that website from what I've heard.  Good luck!

[Divemaster]

I'd go for the SX600 purely because it has built in speakers, the likelihood of it having been gigged are remote, and the portability of it.

I'm against the Tyros for age, read also reliability related reasons. You'd be buying old technology, and it might have had the life gigged out of it. Unfortunately sellers can be less than truthful on sites like Ebay, so my advice would be to buy from a well known source. Although great keyboards, most are ridiculously overpriced. You can get a  Genos 1 for less than an older T5.

Which suggests S970 /S975. Which I'd only buy from a reputable dealer.

Personally I'd go for the SX600. Brand new and with a Yamaha guarantee. Latest technology and do you REALLY Need over 1000 voices?

Whatever you decide. Enjoy making music.

Keith.

[BogdanH]

..
Personally I'd go for the SX600. Brand new and with a Yamaha guarantee. Latest technology and do you REALLY Need over 1000 voices?

Absolutely agree! The only (but important) disadvantage SX600 has, is extremely small user memory, which can many times be the reason that owner starts looking for better keyboard after relative short period of using it. Other than that, it's an excellent machine -not only for learning: one can actually play good music on it.

Bogdan

[TheodorHK04]

After reading about the voice guidee, I'm considering going for a second-hand Genos actually. Is there anything that you can't do with voice guide on that model?

[Toril S]

The voice guide uses WAV FILES to read out the text on the screen. This is ancient technology. I have no idea why Yamaha would use such an outdated system! The people here on the forum that have tested the voice guide say that it does not read all the info on the screen when you are in menues, for instance if you edit voices, use multi track on the recorder and so on. You can select styles and turn channels on and off, and some more, but there is a lot of things that it won't read. Some users have been very creative, one user made templates that he put on the screen, so as to put his fingers on the right menu tabs. I am visually impaired, but have some eyesight left, so I do not use voice guide, but rather magnifiers to read the screen. If you are totally blind, I would try a Genos with the voice guide function before buying it. Let me know how it goes. With some more work from Yamaha, voice guide could be great. So I sincerely hope they will develope it further!

[TheodorHK04]

I ended up buying that used Genos, since it was only a 3rd of the price of a new Genos 2 here in Iceland. Yep, some screens aren't read. I'm thinking of putting these dots on the plastic frame around the screen to mark the cells; the screen is most often 8x7. I just didn't want to be without those extra voices and styles.

[BogdanH]

Congrats! -very good decision. I hope that you manage with touch screen somehow. Wish you a lot of fun and joy for many years 

Bogdan

[gabrielschuck]

Yeah, the Tyros 5 is the best option, but I'm slightly worried about the condition of the units after so many years of use. If I find the S975 somewhere, shouldn't I take the chance before it's too late? Is it against some forum rule to ask if anyone knows of a good place to buy these online?

In my case I was lucky to acquire a used Tyros5. The keyboard was very well maintained.
For me it was the best choice.
I've been dreaming about the tyros5's choir voices since the tyros4's release. The Sx600, although a good keyboard, does not meet my type of profile.
To work with it you need to turn it around more, as it doesn't have the A to J buttons that help a lot.
Either way, congratulations on acquiring your genos!
I hope you can make good use of it.
Regards,
Gabriel

[Amwilburn]

In my case I was lucky to acquire a used Tyros5. The keyboard was very well maintained.
For me it was the best choice.
I've been dreaming about the tyros5's choir voices since the tyros4's release. The Sx600, although a good keyboard, does not meet my type of profile.
To work with it you need to turn it around more, as it doesn't have the A to J buttons that help a lot.
Either way, congratulations on acquiring your genos!
I hope you can make good use of it.
Regards,
Gabriel

Um...? The choir voices on the T4 and T5 (and indeed, the G1, G2, and sx900, CVP609/709/805/905/809/909/CSP200 series) are all identical (minus some volume rebalancing issues, especially with the vocal shots) so that absolutely would not be why you'd upgrade from a T4 to a T5...? Or did you  mean you just wanted those voices since then? which makes sense, those are amazing choir voices.


Mark

[gabrielschuck]

Um...? The choir voices on the T4 and T5 (and indeed, the G1, G2, and sx900, CVP609/709/805/905/809/909/CSP200 series) are all identical (minus some volume rebalancing issues, especially with the vocal shots) so that absolutely would not be why you'd upgrade from a T4 to a T5...? Or did you  mean you just wanted those voices since then? which makes sense, those are amazing choir voices.


Mark

The main reason was really because of those choir voices.
Jokes aside, I considered several factors in the decision to acquire a Tyros5: Good
voices, good styles, and the issue of accessibility when using the keyboard.
Although the choir voices of the Tyros5 are identical to those of the SX900, the Tyros5 has other realistic voices that are not available on the SX900, such as the super articulation 2.
There's the fact that the SX900 is more technologically updated, but I was very unsure about the Voice Guide because I use advanced keyboard functions like creating styles, which is something I was already accustomed to on the S910 and wouldn't be difficult on the Tyros5. I think it wouldn't suit me perfectly.
And for a Touch Screen keyboard like these new ones, the Voice Guide needs to improve a lot. It wouldn't justify the high investment.
I didn't have a Tyros4, actually, I was going to buy that keyboard, but in the end, I ended up choosing the 5 even though it's not so far behind technologically compared to other keyboards.
Best regards,
Gabriel

[Toril S]

The Tyros 5 is a good choice. I have it, but, having some eyesight, eventually purchased a Genos too. But the T5 is not going out of the house, I love those buttons, and the sound is still very good in 2024.