Topic: PSR SX900 - Live Control Popup (New)

[Akki]

Good day group,

Please see video bellow and advise. Any suggestion is welcome.

I did reinstall the newest system twice, thinking it has to do something with that, but the problem is still there.
Live control (in menu1), Popup window is turned on as I need it. But actual popup is coming up randomly and that on its own.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AulY-fbvVosUhOUCXU3yAAUzOyFkOA?e=cr6WZS

2nd video: https://1drv.ms/v/s!AulY-fbvVosUhqRPMvG91Qas_UwyqA?e=vfkHkm

I have to add that the keyboard is a week old, and it's been sitting at home only.

Thanks in advance!

Edit Nov 13th - I did factory reset once again, installed the newest OS and did another factory reset - problem is still there.

[pjd]

Just some thoughts off the top of my head --

The pop-up arises when a change is detected on one of the live control knobs. The processor that scans the knobs may be detecting a spurious change -- big enough to trigger the pop-up, but not big enough to increment/decrement the final, displayed control value.

Since it's a new keyboard, maybe a loose connection internally? Yamaha designs often put live control and other panel buttons, etc. on separate printed circuit boards (PCB) that are interconnected via plugs/jacks. Maybe a plug is loose?

If the keyboard is under warranty, either the seller or Yamaha should make it good. Personally, I wouldn't want to void the warranty on a brand new keyboard.

Which specific model is this?

All the best -- pj

[Akki]

I hope it's not a biggie to be honest - to go through return process etc. It's just too much, lol

This is PSR SX900

[p$manK32]

I have seen this happen on mine as well. However it happens rarely and not sure if it’s related to something I am doing with panel button or touchscreen operations. It appears to be a bug that definitely clears up with a restart of the keyboard.

[Joe H]

If this reported to Yamaha... there may be a fix with a firmware update.  That was the case with a button problem on the PSR S970.

Joe H

[Akki]

I wonder it forum is followed/watched by Yamaha reps?

How can we report this?

[Amwilburn]

I wonder it forum is followed/watched by Yamaha reps?

How can we report this?

It is not. They have a specific place to report issues like this, but step 1 is supposed to be telling your Yamaha dealer.
https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,64439.0.html

Mark

[ikmusic]

The same problem with the SX700 was described on the polish forum.

[Akki]

The same problem with the SX700 was described on the polish forum.

Was there any explanation or solution about this?
May I have a link, please?

[ikmusic]

Unfortunately, it is still unknown what was the cause.

https://instrumentyklawiszowe.com/index.php?topic=50055.0

[Akki]

Unfortunately, it is still unknown what was the cause.

https://instrumentyklawiszowe.com/index.php?topic=50055.0

Need to be registered to see actual post

[Divemaster]

I have seen this happen on mine as well. However it happens very rarely and not sure if it’s related to something I am doing with panel button or touchscreen operations. It appears to be a bug that definitely clears up with a restart of the keyboard.

Hi Akki

I've also had this issue. Mildly annoying, but it doesn't happen every time I play. I've had my SX700 keyboard for about 14 months.

This MAY work for you. It does for me.

I find that by pressing the Exit button just once, it rarely happens again during my playing time which on average is about 3 hours daily.

I'll run this past my original supplier, see if anything has been reported to Yamaha, and I'll also give Yamaha UK and Ireland a call on Monday.

It's as though something has been set too sensitively. My PSR-SX700 is still under
Warranty, so if needs to be looked at then back it will go. I'm certainly not going to check it out
internally.
I'll update if I get to hear anything, and would be obliged if you would also do so.

Keith

[Akki]

Hi Akki

I've also had this issue. Mildly annoying, but it doesn't happen every time I play. I've had my keyboards for about 14 months.

This MAY work for you.

I find that by pressing the Exit button just once, it rarely happens again during my playing time which on average is about 3 hours daily.

I'll run this past my original supplier, see if anything has been reported to Yamaha, and I'll also give Yamaha UK and Ireland a call on Monday.

It's as though something has been set too sensitively. My PSR-SX700 is still under
Warranty, so if needs to be looked at then back it will go. I'm certainly not going to check it out
internally. I'll update if I get to hear anything.

Keith

Thanks Keith,.. i hope they will figuyre this out - for now i have tirned popup off,.. only thing is i dont see actual value when chaging

[Divemaster]

Hi Akki

How did you turn the pop up off?

That might solve my issue because I hardly ever use those wretched knobs anyway.

Keith.

[BogdanH]

...
... see if anything has been reported to Yamaha, ...

-my prediction: "really?.. that's the first time we hear about this happening... did you maybe spill water over keyboard?..." 

@Akki
My advice would be (because keyboard is new), that you return it to seller. That is, I wouldn't sent it to service, because it could take a while while before you get it back.

As for what could be the reason, it can be anything... defect Live Control potentiometer (happens),.. these potentiometers are soldered directly on board, so there could be (so called) cold contact (you'd need soldering iron and experience to repair)... could be some loose contact on some connector (quite hard to locate)...

PS. Just saw you saying you turned off the message popping. Keep in mind that this only solves visual part of the problem. The thing is, this message only comes up if Live Control setting changed (that is, keyboard act as you actually did turned the knob).

Bogdan

[Akki]

Hi Akki

How did you turn the pop up off?

That might solve my issue because I hardly ever use those wretched knobs anyway.

Keith.

MENU, Live Control , Menu On top then Popup window on and off.

But as Bogdan says,  this is only visual (possibly) and it's not a permanent solution.

PS. Just saw you saying you turned off the message popping. Keep in mind that this only solves visual part of the problem. The thing is, this message only comes up if Live Control setting changed (that is, keyboard act as you actually did turned the knob).

Bogdan

[Divemaster]

Thanks Akki

I'll try that, and check it out.

Update. Perfect. That worked great, and at least gets rid of the pop up window.  I'll ring Yamaha Monday.

Keith. 🙂

[Divemaster]

-my prediction: "really?.. that's the first time we hear about this happening... did you maybe spill water over keyboard?..."  :

Bogdan

No it's not that Bogdan, it's the spider that crawled in thru the USB port! 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

[Akki]

No it's not that Bogdan, it's the spider that crawled in thru the USB port! 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

Definitely no liquid or anything like that. As mentioned above, this maybe be common on all 700 and 900 models.

I'm expecting call back from Yamaha dealer rep right now.

[stevem]

As for what could be the reason, it can be anything... defect Live Control potentiometer (happens),.. these potentiometers are soldered directly on board, so there could be (so called) cold contact (you'd need soldering iron and experience to repair)... could be some loose contact on some connector (quite hard to locate)...

PS. Just saw you saying you turned off the message popping. Keep in mind that this only solves visual part of the problem. The thing is, this message only comes up if Live Control setting changed (that is, keyboard act as you actually did turned the knob).

Bogdan

Ah! had this twice. SX900. My No.1 LC is set to balance Style (i find some styles too dominant = quick fix). The first time the pop-up appeared i think it went away in about 3 seconds, on the second occasion my hand sort-of automatically ( )  touched the knob and pop-up disappeared. Obviously could have been co-incidental, but maybe Pot issue as Bogdan suggests? ( Headphones always used/very gentle touch, so vibration feedback not suspected as initial cause though).
Will follow post with interest. thank you.
steve

[BogdanH]

@steve
If it only happened few times (way back), then I wouldn't bother -but yes, it's always good to know what's causing that 

My SX700 is 3 years old now and this never happened to me and I must say this is the first time I hear about. If it would start to happen frequently now, then I would probably get new pot (original is ~10€, on free market probably 3- times less). Once I would have it, I would open keyboard and first check for (cold) contacts carefully and if I couldn't find anything suspicious, I would replace the pot. Besides that, there's a chance that problems is solved at re-connecting the connectors.
...I'm just thinking aloud here.

Bogdan

[Akki]

Thanks guys.

As suggested by dealer, I submitted the ticket on this form (https://inquiry.yamaha.com/country/?lcl=en_CA&act=2) and hope to hear back from them soon.
Dealer also offered help if they are not responsive.
@ikmusic mentioned that this is ongoing on Yamaha Polish forums, and I hope this it software rather than hardware (pot etc.) issue.

[Amwilburn]

Thanks guys.

As suggested by dealer, I submitted the ticket on this form (https://inquiry.yamaha.com/country/?lcl=en_CA&act=2) and hope to hear back from them soon.
Dealer also offered help if they are not responsive.
@ikmusic mentioned that this is ongoing on Yamaha Polish forums, and I hope this it software rather than hardware (pot etc.) issue.

Please note the link I gave was specifically for Yamaha Canada (and I also found UK and US links in my original post)

if you are in POland, I *think* it's
https://inquiry.yamaha.com/country/?lcl=en_PO&act=2

but googling their support page brings up

Yamaha Music Europe GmbH
Branch Poland
Sp.zo.o. Oddział w Polsce
ul. Wielicka 52
02-657 Warszawa
Phone: +48 22 880 08 88
Fax: ++48228800781
Email: Info-POL@music.yamaha.com
Steinberg Email support: Steinberg-POL@music.yamaha.com

Mark

[Akki]

I am in Canada 😂

Thanks too all!

[Akki]

Video link expired on service which was originally posted to - re-uploaded now to OneDrive.

[overover]

Hi Akki,

Please make sure that the latest Firmware (V1.11) is installed on your SX900.

There was a similar problem in the past with a Tyros series (I think it was Tyros4). In individual devices in this series, the parameters assigned to the sliders changed "as if by magic" without the sliders in question being touched. This error was corrected with a Firmware update (probably by slightly increasing the required reaction distance of the sliders).

SX900 Firmware Updater:
>>> https://uk.yamaha.com/en/support/updates/firm_psr-sx900.html


Best regards,
Chris

[Akki]

Hi Akki,

Please make sure that the latest Firmware (V1.11) is installed on your SX900.

There was a similar problem in the past with a Tyros series (I think it was Tyros4). In individual devices in this series, the parameters assigned to the sliders changed "as if by magic" without the sliders in question being touched. This error was corrected with a Firmware update (probably by slightly increasing the required reaction distance of the sliders).

SX900 Firmware Updater:
>>> https://uk.yamaha.com/en/support/updates/firm_psr-sx900.html


Best regards,
Chris

Installed Chris

I also did factory reset twice after, and reinstalling latest OS thinking it may fix/change, but problem is still here.

[DerekA]

Sounds to me like a hardware problem with the knobs, generating a spurious signal which the OS thinks is someone turning it.

I had a similar issue with a foot pedal which I had assigned to modulation+. After a few seconds of playing a voice it would start sounding "wobbly" which dove me nuts until I realised it was coming from a fault in the pedal suddenly setting the modulation to max.

[Divemaster]

The best way I can describe it is this.

When I'm in my car, if my hand goes anywhere near the Navigation screen, then the navigation menu shows up automatically. There's a sensor. Take your hand away and the menu disappears.

Exactly the same. The Live Control pop up screen just comes on even when you're not touching either of the knobs. Just close to them. They seem to be over sensitive for some reason.

But it happens very rarely.
I'm talking to Yamaha UK/Ireland soon, so will see what they suggest. I'll come back.

Keith.

[Akki]

The best way I can describe it is this.

When I'm in my car, if my hand goes anywhere near the Navigation screen, then the navigation menu shows up automatically. There's a sensor. Take your hand away and the menu disappears.

Exactly the same. The Live Control pop up screen just comes on even when you're not touching either of the knobs. Just close to them. They seem to be over sensitive for some reason.

But it happens very rarely.
I'm talking to Yamaha UK/Ireland soon, so will see what they suggest. I'll come back.

Keith.

Thanks Keith.
I am expecting response from yamaha support, hope today. Ill follow up here too to keep you posted.

[Divemaster]

Thanks Akki
Report has gone into Yamaha UK about an hour ago. I'll update with any response.
Keith.

[Innar]

Hello Akki.
I've also rarely had Live Control pop up for a second. Could it be due to heating of the instrument due to some bad solder or is it a Software error.
For some unknown reason, some of my files have been corrupted. For example, the SX700 makes the microphone sound terrible on some songs. I use Reverb a little, but sometimes it has turned into some sort of Echo effect. At first I just deleted this file and looked for the settings of the same song again in the copies. Finally I found the error.
By the way, the Laulu settings next to it had not changed. I suspect a flash drive. Now I try to turn off the instrument first and only then remove the stick. I'm not sure if there's anything wrong with that. Such nonsense is very annoying, especially when playing in a band. Turn the instrument off and on?
If you have such an error in the 000Setup file, it is nonsense.
Try making a new Setup file with a different name, then you can compare whether both are faulty.
With respect,
Innar

[Akki]

Hello Akki.
I've also rarely had Live Control pop up for a second. Could it be due to heating of the instrument due to some bad solder or is it a Software error.
For some unknown reason, some of my files have been corrupted. For example, the SX700 makes the microphone sound terrible on some songs. I use Reverb a little, but sometimes it has turned into some sort of Echo effect. At first I just deleted this file and looked for the settings of the same song again in the copies. Finally I found the error.
By the way, the Laulu settings next to it had not changed. I suspect a flash drive. Now I try to turn off the instrument first and only then remove the stick. I'm not sure if there's anything wrong with that. Such nonsense is very annoying, especially when playing in a band. Turn the instrument off and on?
If you have such an error in the 000Setup file, it is nonsense.
Try making a new Setup file with a different name, then you can compare whether both are faulty.
With respect,
Innar

Thanks for suggestions, I have edited my original post this morning:

Edit Nov 13th - I did factory reset once again, installed the newest OS and did another factory reset - problem is still there.

This all was done without anything custom on keyboard, not even USB drive inserted. Its like taking the keyboard out from the box and having this problem.

[BogdanH]

Out of curiosity I checked PSR-SX circuit diagrams (not that I'm some expert) and now I don't think this problem is caused by defective Live Control potentiometer (because Live Control works differently as I assumed). Besides that, your video is too short to be sure... for example, when message window pops-up, I think I see that Live Control value quickly changes and goes back to previous value. If that's true and depending on if it only happens to one knob or both, then one would have better chance to localize the problem.
Now I think it's either bad connection on one of the connectors that connect Live Control board with others... there are five connectors where (I think) two of them could cause this. The second possibility that I see is, that wires (of those two connection) are not placed properly and so they maybe catch distortion signal (interference) from nearby components.
All above is pure guessing, of course!
As I said, try to return the keyboard. It's impossible that problem would be solved here and the problem also won't just disappear over the time.

Bogdan

[overover]

Hi Akki,

As a next step, I recommend using the SX900's internal Test program. Test item #037 (Knob Check) can be used to check whether the Live Control Knobs 1/2 provide the correct values for MIN, MAX and CENTER position.

If this test can be completed with "OK", I suspect a hardware defect (e.g. a defective potentiometer on one of the live control knobs that happens to send unwanted values, or a loose contact on an internal connection cable, as mentioned by Bogdan). By the way, “NG” means that the test could not be completed successfully. I would definitely contact Yamaha Support regarding this error.

You are welcome to send me a PM (private message) and I will send you the necessary information on how to use the Test program.


Best regards,
Chris

[Akki]

Hi Akki,

As a next step, I recommend using the SX900's internal Test program. Test item #037 (Knob Check) can be used to check whether the Live Control Knobs 1/2 provide the correct values for MIN, MAX and CENTER position.

Tested OK - just wanted to update here (sent you pm as well)

[Divemaster]

As promised, here is the reply that I've received from Yamaha
“Dear Keith

Thank you for your enquiry.
For your reference, your case number is *********

This is not something that I have heard of happening before.

Can I ask if  'Live Controls' are set at the 12 o'clock position ?

Thank you and best regards,"

On SX700 it does it in random positions, so I have responded accordingly.

[BogdanH]

...
This is not something that I have heard of happening before.
...

...interesting 

Bogdan

[Akki]

...interesting 

Bogdan

As promised, here is the reply that I've received from Yamaha
“Dear Keith

Thank you for your enquiry.
For your reference, your case number is *********

This is not something that I have heard of happening before.

Can I ask if  'Live Controls' are set at the 12 o'clock position ?

Thank you and best regards,"

On SX700 it does it in random positions, so I have responded accordingly.

Interesting Indeed!

Interesting is the question they have asked. It shouldn't matter at all - 12 o'clock or any random position should make a difference - this should be happening either way.

Just as I was writing this post it started happening again, it's just..... 

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AulY-fbvVosUhqRPMvG91Qas_UwyqA?e=vfkHkm

[BogdanH]

I meant "interesting" with sarcasm, because I expected such reaction (see my first post).
The thing is, there's usually someone who doesn't have a clue and just says & ask generic stuff. Next question will probably be: did you try to reset keyboard? -it's like they're hoping the problem will disappear meanwhile.

Bogdan

[Akki]

I meant "interesting" with sarcasm, because I expected such reaction (see my first post).
The thing is, there's usually someone who doesn't have a clue and just says & ask generic stuff. Next question will probably be: did you try to reset keyboard? -it's like they're hoping the problem will disappear meanwhile.

Bogdan

Hahah, I know right...

Trust me Bogdan,.. i have tried everything I had in mind to do and what was suggested to me to do.

[Divemaster]

Here's my latest reply to Yamaha UK.

"If you check out the latest Video on the thread I've sent you, towards the end of the thread, you can see what's happening.
It doesn't matter where the knobs are set.  It's happening without any keys being touched. It's the ghost in the machine!
It's now been reported to Yamaha Canada, UK and Poland, so with respect there definitely IS a problem either software or hardware related.
Can you please log this to Yamaha HQ for attention. I look forward to hearing from you, as a warranty issue. It shouldn't be happening.
Thanks.
Keith. “

As before, I'll update as and when I hear anything.

Keith

[Akki]

Here's my latest reply to Yamaha UK.

"If you check out the latest Video on the thread I've sent you, towards the end of the thread, you can see what's happening.
It doesn't matter where the knobs are set.  It's happening without any keys being touched. It's the ghost in the machine!
It's now been reported to Yamaha Canada, UK and Poland, so with respect there definitely IS a problem either software or hardware related.
Can you please log this to Yamaha HQ for attention. I look forward to hearing from you, as a warranty issue. It shouldn't be happening.
Thanks.
Keith. “

As before, I'll update as and when I hear anything.

Keith

Thanks alot Keith!

I talked to a dealer earlier, and they offered replacement or full refund. So yes i kind of fell "covered"  but I still have a feeling that I need to wait for Yamaha response (maybe not? ⁣)


Edit by overover: Added an invisible character (unicode 2063) so that the smilie and the closing bracket at the end of the text are displayed correctly

[BogdanH]

Don't wait -take the offer from your dealer!

Bogdan

[DerekA]

Don't wait -take the offer from your dealer!

Totally agree Bogdan. It's not worth trying to track down the problem because - let's be honest - nobody at Yamaha (or any other big company) really cares about intermittent faults affecting a small number of customers.

[stevem]

Purely by chance, i revisited an old review and just spotted it happening twice on a 4 year old recording:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViCCIsGKIcU&t=352s

at 5:46 and a few seconds later.

Well, that's it!  i can't live with that. i'm off to order a Genos 2 now

Or not.
steve

[BogdanH]

@steve
Interesting... and "reviewer" doesn't bother to mention that (of course not!).
That's why I never make my decision based on advertisement videos or when I notice signs of fanboy-ism.

Yes, Genos2 is supposed to be pop-up free 

Bogdan

[Akki]

Purely by chance, i revisited an old review and just spotted it happening twice on a 4 year old recording:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViCCIsGKIcU&t=352s

at 5:46 and a few seconds later.

Well, that's it!  i can't live with that. i'm off to order a Genos 2 now

Or not.
steve

@steve
Interesting... and "reviewer" doesn't bother to mention that (of course not!).
That's why I never make my decision based on advertisement videos or when I notice signs of fanboy-ism.

Yes, Genos2 is supposed to be pop-up free 

Bogdan

WOW - and they say then have never heard about it :/
Bogdan, do you know if they have popup blocker available for SX900?

[Akki]

Another one.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AulY-fbvVosUi5lxLcVYapyZXpj_Ig?e=KyEuVA

I don't think ill keep uploading as its more regular now.

I am in the middle of conversion with dealer about exchange/return. Furthermore, I sent an email earlier, just to clarify something before I proceed.

[Divemaster]

Latest reply from Yamaha

I have been speaking to some colleagues in Europe today regarding your enquiry and we would recommend that one of our Yamaha Authorised Service Centres like E&M Electronics inspect the unit.

E&M can be contacted on 01908375699

E&M cover both warranty & none warranty repairs.

Alternatively you can use our Service Centre locator on the link below :-
https://uk.yamaha.com/en/support/service_locator/index.html

Yamaha Music Europe GmbH (UK) only advise qualified personal to attempt to repair any Yamaha Product.


I hope this helps and thank you for contacting Yamaha Music Europe GmbH (UK).

I'm not absolutely certain that they are accepting this as a warranty issue. It seems more like them wanting to pull my SX700 apart to try and find the issue that's causing this. Not sure I am happy with that, especially as they claim not to have previously known about the issue.
I will think about this over the weekend, but not altogether happy.