Topic: Genos Prog Rock Styles

[Curry Noodle]

hi, I realise that I might be a couple of years late posting here, but in the hope of finding what I'm looking for I'm going to try anyway... I'm looking for styles/user styles for the Genos or Tyros, specifically Prog Rock, so does anyone know of any?

For the life of me I can't understand why there are so many hideously cheesy styles such as 'Schlager' and 'Oberkrainer' yet there doesn't appear to be any prog rock across the entire Yamaha PSR/Tyros/Genos spectrum. Would love to get hold of anything in the style of Genesis, Yes, Pink Floyd, Steve Wilson etc to Steely Dan, Deep Purple, King Crimson etc.


Edit 2023-10-04 by overover: Added some text here from your second thread on this topic (at "Forum Comments and Suggestions" board) before I deleted that second thread.

Please do not multipost (same question in multiple boards). One post/thread per topic is sufficient.
Best regards, Chris (overover)

[BogdanH]

..yet there doesn't appear to be any prog rock across the entire Yamaha PSR/Tyros/Genos spectrum...

Reason for that is obvious: such styles can be very difficult to make -and usually also quite difficult to play.
Pedro Eleuterio (member of this forum) made some very good styles (also Pink Floyd, among others), which you can check on his Youtube channel -I believe he also sells them.

Bogdan

[Curry Noodle]

I wouldn't have thought they're that difficult to make? - the Korg M3 and M50 is loaded with complex combinations (styles) and that's 15 year old tech, but thanks for the info - I'll definitely check that out !

[p$manK32]

Genesis "In the Air Tonight" is in the SX900. But you are correct. There is for sure a lack of "progressive" styles on the Yamaha arranger platform for those that wish to expand into other genres. Yamaha Expansion packs and the presets are the same old stuff. StyleCreator is difficult to make styles from scratch if you have little experience doing it  However as a beginner, I am having some success recording (or copying parts from other styles) replacement phrases and rhythm patterns within existing Styles in StyleCreator. There are a lot of free styles on this website and if you dig around you might find something close for starting points. For me SX900 is more user friendly than synths for expanding into other music genres.  And Pedro, mentioned above, has done a few electronic/synth custom styles for me and I was very happy with the results. There are not many developers who offer this service.

[Curry Noodle]

Thanks p$manK32

I've checked out Pedro as advised by BogdanH, and as far as I can tell he's one of only a few that have had the inclination to broaden the horizon.

Great that you're having some success even as a beginner - as the saying goes: if you want something done properly, do it yourself ! so following your example in learning how to create/adapt styles is probably the way to go.

FYI: There is at least one style on the Genos called FunkyHouse in the Dance category which I would describe as a progressive style (prog jazz-funk) so don't understand why there aren't a few more for the discerning musician/composer to get stuck into.                 

[BogdanH]

.. if you want something done properly, do it yourself !...

..properly, in sense "to our liking" -agree fully.

Reality is, all onboard styles in arranger keyboards are generic and should be seen as examples. That is, they're not made for particular song, although it happens that some style reminds us on some song we know.
On the other hand, the possibility of styles creation is what separates arrangers from other keyboards and so it's expected that owner would use the advantage of that (to express his creativity).

Just sharing my thoughts,
Bogdan

[Amwilburn]

I wouldn't have thought they're that difficult to make? - the Korg M3 and M50 is loaded with complex combinations (styles) and that's 15 year old tech, but thanks for the info - I'll definitely check that out !

Oh heavens, yes... someone asked me to make a style earlier this year, and even using the existing drum beat from a midi file (thank you Jørgen Sørensen!) it took about 30 iterations to get something that sounded good; doing a style entirely from scratch is even more difficult. Korg M3 and M50 are *not* styles, but multiple arpeggiators (someone still had to program the drums the same way, but those are literally only 2 arpeggiators assigned to 2 or 3 parts)... no intro 1,2,3, fill in, main a,b,c,d. In other words, just 2 program elements needed per "style". The ones on the Genos are 15  parts x 8 tracks... so approximately 60 times more work per "style"

*but* once you get the hang of programming styles, it's actually quite fun!
Which you can't do on the workstations you mentioned because you can't add arpeggiator patterns. I feel like there may have been a workstation you could 'draw' arpeggiator patterns to, and due to the existence of the Yamaha Tenori-on
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzcpTMO0CrI
I assume that workstation would've been a Yamaha, but for once I can't remember if any ever allowed you to add arpeggiator patterns. pjd, can you remember?

Mark



Mark

[Curry Noodle]

I agree that style creation is tricky and time consuming for the user, but for an experienced team of Yamaha professionals and technicians??

I know the patterns on Korg are not technically styles, (they're combo's) but they are infinitely more varied, interesting and inspiring than the plethora of Yamahas oompah oompah Schlagers, Oberkrainers and same template derivatives.

It's disappointing that Genos doesn't have more edgy and imaginative styles (not necessarily prog-rock) which would better reflect on this fabulous piece of kit.             

[Curry Noodle]

..Reality is, all onboard styles in arranger keyboards are generic and should be seen as examples...
 
On the other hand, the possibility of styles creation is what separates arrangers from other keyboards and so it's expected that owner would use the advantage of that (to express his creativity).

Just sharing my thoughts,
Bogdan

completely agree that it's ultimately down to user creativity, but since the styles are intended as an important starting point, it's counter productive to have the same generic style from the same template repeated multiple times at the expense of more varied and imaginative styles.     

[BogdanH]

I tend to be quite critical to "what we get for the money" and so I'm not defending Yamaha (or any brand) in this regard.

Of course it would be nice to have a variety of better styles onboard, but making a good style costs money. Not only that: as soon some style becomes similar enough to some original song, that involves possibility of additional costs (licensing, fee per sold piece, etc.). Needless to say that all hardware manufacturers are avoiding such "unnecessary" costs.
As you can see, I'm relative forgiving about quality of onboard styles -because if needed, one can make his own styles for free.. or download them from somewhere.

Voices on the other hand, are totally different story. If we wish to have better than onboard voices, not only we need to pay for them (at least for good ones): we are also quite limited with amount of memory available for voices -ok, Genos doesn't really suffer space shortage.
Anyway, if I buy keyboard with "bad" voices, I can't avoid  additional costs later... or I must simply accept what I have. And because of that, I will never tolerate bad (or not "good enough") built-in voices.

But yes, arranger keyboards are expensive and so we also expect a lot for the hard earned money we pay. But then, there's always "my next keyboard" 

Greetings,
Bogdan

[pedro_pedroc]

Hello.

Thanks all of you to remember my work.
I had created some awesome Pink Floyd styles and they are not easy to produce. High hopes has a lot of riffs. Comfortable numb, coming back to life, and time either. My last one, wearing the inside out, you must listen to the song to realize what kind of work I could achieve - the style sounds like the original song. I’m very happy with them… Hey You is another style masterpiece - if you close your eyes, maybe you'll think you're listening to the original song.

I also created several Alan Parsons Project styles, they are considered "progressive rock" too.

Thank you for remember me, I can’t do any advertising here anymore - so I appreciate what you’ve done for me.

Best wishes.
Pedro

[Whitecolin11]

Have you an example i would like to hear them
Regards Colin

[pedro_pedroc]

Yes, Colin. I’m sending only because you ask - www.styles4k.com. The website is full of demos.

Pedro

[Taffinator]

Following this with great interest, expecting Genos 2 in next few weeks, an upgrade from my trusty old S970.

I wonder if this midi to style app might help as there are many free good-quality midifiles of songs by Yes, Floyd, King Crimson, Camel, etc.

I'm not overly concerned in always being faithful to the original recording as at 72 my voice has changed from earlier in my life; I also enjoy flipping styles.
 / genres, just for a change.

There are styles available to buy for Yes (Owner of a lonely heart), Floyd (Wish you were here), & some Alan Parsons - www.d-o-o.de,
they aren't bad & you can tweak them as you wish.

Is there a separate forum for sharing Prog Rock styles & ideas / mutual support.

Wishing us all much success with this.

Mike [UK based but internationally minded]

[ugawoga]

Go Midi to Style