Quality of Speakers

[BogdanH]

hi Antun,
I don't have dedicated external speakers for keyboard yet. When I'm in the "right mood" I connect keyboard to Yamaha RX-V581 receiver where I have a pair of JBL HLS810 speakers attached. It sounds great of course, but it's not really practical for everyday use because of cabling and speakers position. That is, I'm still mainly using built-in speakers.
I'm seriously thinking about to buy some smallish monitors for quite a while now... it seems I have problem with clicking on "Add to basket" 

Greetings from Slovenia 
Bogdan

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Bogdan :

I have 2 external pair of speakers.
They are approx. Euro 70 - 100,-- for a pair.

A. One pair is used for the TV Sound only. Sounds better than the built-in TV speakers but not brilliant.
B. One pair is used for my computer.
    Connection of two keyboards : Tyros4 and synth Korg Kross2 ( external sound card = Steinberg midi/audio interface ).
    The headphones' sound quality is acceptable but the speaker sound is absolutely underperforming.

It might be my intention to replace the computer speakers in the ( near ? ) future.
I do not know which speaker set I need to get a " natural and nice " keyboard sound.
Not urgent. For the time being I am mostly using my headphones ( 95% of my time ).
Your suggestions would be very welcome. Thanks in advance !

We are living in a small apartment which is very well acoustically isolated. Up to 100W might be acceptable ?, I guess ?

Bye for now.
Best regards, JH

[Lacko]

Hi guys,
I have only one external speaker - Peavey KB2. It is solid piece of furniture, so there is not enough place for second one in my room. :-(
But good sound, even in mono, is for me more important than stereo effect.

[Lije Baley]

hi Antun,
I don't have dedicated external speakers for keyboard yet. When I'm in the "right mood" I connect keyboard to Yamaha RX-V581 receiver where I have a pair of JBL HLS810 speakers attached. It sounds great of course, but it's not really practical for everyday use because of cabling and speakers position. That is, I'm still mainly using built-in speakers.
I'm seriously thinking about to buy some smallish monitors for quite a while now... it seems I have problem with clicking on "Add to basket" 

Greetings from Slovenia 
Bogdan

Hi Bogdan!

I sympathise! Having trouble adding something to the basket is something I can definitely relate to! 😊

I am thrilled to meet someone from Slovenia! Best wishes to you from Croatia! 😊

Regarding the speakers, I can definitely see the trouble of having to connect the keyboard to a HIFI system – too many cables lurking around and of course, you also need different adapters to hook everything up. In the past, I had a Roland GW-8 keyboard which had no speakers so I had to buy some. The monitors I got were M-Audio BX5. I believe it was the 2nd generation, it was quite few years ago. While they were good-sounding, the additional cables – 2 audio cables plus 2 power cables – which you could never buy in the appropriate length, of course, just made the whole setup a bit 'too much' for the small room. After that, I sort of regretted not buying a keyboard with built-in speakers. But as you've said, what's good for me, may not be good for someone else, or vice-versa. One thing I would not exclude, however, is buying a small amplifier and a pair of passive speakers. That way you only have one power cable instead of two. You also have more inputs and very often you have a remote control, if that's important to you. One thing I find very inconvenient with studio monitors is the fact, if you buy two, they each have their own volume control. It is usually on the back of the monitor but even more inconvenient than that, they have to be set to an equal position or you risk having channel imbalance. Having volume pots with 'notches' is very rare so it's difficult to set them right just by ear. You would likely need an SPL meter or a suitable measurement tool. Now, I can hear you laughing over there in Slovenia – I KNOW ALL OF THAT!!! 😉 In that case, I apologise – I'm just taking this from a perspective of someone who's just begun – my perspective! 😉

Best regards,
Antun

[BogdanH]

@Jeff
Here I share some of my thoughts at deciding about what speaker/system to buy for my relative small room. But first, in short about power... it depends on quality of amplifier & loudspeakers. If listening to good system at distance of 1m, a power of 1W delivers a loudness (or more precise: SPL =Sound Pressure Level) of about 90dB (which is loud!). At every doubling the distance, the loudness decreases by 6dB. In reality, decrease is less than 6dB, because we also hear reflections from walls. How much is 6dB? Well, listen at 1m and then step back to 2m and you'll hear the difference. It doesn't matter if you listen at 1W or 100W, the difference is always 6dB.

Why am I talking about this? Because a live band makes SPL of about 100-110dB (depending on where you stand). So, if you wish 100dB in your room, how much power do you need? If 1W speaker makes 90dB at 1m, then it will make 96dB at 50cm... and 102dB at 25cm distance. Yes, 1W at 25cm can have the same loudness as band playing live.
Or you can go the opposite way: you keep the distance of 1m and increase the power instead. To increase SPL by 6dB, we need to increase the power 4-times. Means, at 4W we get SPL of 96dB and at 16W we get SPL of 102dB. Btw. longer listening to SPL of about 120dB can cause serious hearing damage.
Conclusion... about 2x25W is more than enough for most homes, if sound system is of good quality. Now you might say, my keyboard has 2x15W and it isn't really that loud... True -because wattage alone means nothing. It's about efficiency, distortion and frequency response.. about data that we don't have for our keyboards.

We all know, that declared power of amplifiers is usually blown up (to impress buyer) and so there's even a bigger reason not to turn volume close to max -because it will sound awful. And because of that we usually decide for a bit more power than we actually need. In this case that would be (let's say) about 2x40W -by assuming that amplifier and speakers are of decent quality.

Bogdan

[BogdanH]

@Antun
hahah.. yes, I know all that, but is always good if someone reminds me 
Of course I'm also thinking to get an amplifier only, because I already have smaller passive Mission 731 speakers doing nothing right now. Actually I already narrowed my decision to Thoman S100-MkII amplifier. That way I would save some money and there would be one cable less -yes, I hate cables. The problem is, where do I put the amplifier? Ok, I have some attachments for my stand and so it's possible, but I don't like too busy look. Btw. as you can see, most amps don't have balance knob -each channel is regulated separately... is not really a big deal, because once adjusted, volume is regulated by keyboard (or mixer).

As you said, active speakers require one cable more and is also a bit more expensive. But still, it's easier to manage only one more cable than having additional amplifier (I have cable storage mounted on my stand). I'm not ready to pay some big money and If I decide for that route, I was thinking to get Presonus Eris E5 speakers.

Now you understand why "Add to basket" doesn't work for me 

Greetings to Croatia,
Bogdan

[Jeff Hollande]

@ Bogdan :

WOOOOW ... I knew you are very knowledgeable. 
Thank you very much for your detailed information and advice. I keep learning every day. 

In this case I would go for 2 x 40W, active speakers.
Plse let me know by return which brand(s) ( + model name or nr., if possible ) you would recommend.

Thank you so much for your help and support. Very much appreciated !
Best wishes, JH

[Lije Baley]

@Antun
hahah.. yes, I know all that, but is always good if someone reminds me 
Of course I'm also thinking to get an amplifier only, because I already have smaller passive Mission 731 speakers doing nothing right now. Actually I already narrowed my decision to Thoman S100-MkII amplifier. That way I would save some money and there would be one cable less -yes, I hate cables. The problem is, where do I put the amplifier? Ok, I have some attachments for my stand and so it's possible, but I don't like too busy look. Btw. as you can see, most amps don't have balance knob -each channel is regulated separately... is not really a big deal, because once adjusted, volume is regulated by keyboard (or mixer).

As you said, active speakers require one cable more and is also a bit more expensive. But still, it's easier to manage only one more cable than having additional amplifier (I have cable storage mounted on my stand). I'm not ready to pay some big money and If I decide for that route, I was thinking to get Presonus Eris E5 speakers.

Now you understand why "Add to basket" doesn't work for me 

Greetings to Croatia,
Bogdan

Hi Bogdan!

Well, I must say, I wish I knew about the K&M 18808 Cable organizer two days ago. I just placed an order with Thomann for some accessories and was wondering if there is such a thing to add to the stand. I think the K&M website does a very poor job of displaying all the available accessories. Still, because I have multiple supports (both default larger and additional smaller ones), it's possible this accessory wouldn't properly fit and generally, while K&M is good quality, I think the price can raise very quickly if you start adding accessories.

I checked the Mission speakers and they seem rather lovely. It's a bit of traditional British mini-monitor but 'with a twist' – the upside-down tweeter/woofer arrangement is typical Mission-style. Also, the paper woofer cone should produce some nice midrange! Congrats! 😉

I've also looked at the Thomann amplifier and must admit I like the design a lot. It's utilitarian, even Spartan, but very functional and no-nonsense. I am a bit unclear as to what amplifier topology it uses but my guess is that it is a class A/B amplifier since class D would surely pack more Watts into the chassis. However, 65 Wpc into 8 Ohms will be plenty powerful, certainly if you will be using the little Missions. The price of 155 € is also fair, I think. Prices have gone up dramatically in the recent years so this is still a good price. There's one additional benefit to this amplifier however – it can be bridged. So, theoretically, if at one point in the future you need more power, you can buy another and set them up as two mono amplifiers, providing greater power output. This is something not to be underestimated.

Greetings to Slovenia! 😊
Cheers,
Antun

[BogdanH]

...
Plse let me know by return which brand(s) ( + model name or nr., if possible ) you would recommend.
..

I can't... because I have no personal experience with any studio monitor. If budget would allow me, right now I would probably buy KRK Rokit R G4 (300€/pair) -but that's only because of info I could gather on internet. Why exactly this one and not i.e some Yamaha (by assuming that both have similar sound quality)? Because KRK has Class D amplifier built in -which doesn't heat up as much as classical A/B amplifier. Does that matter? Well, it can... I don't wish to heat up my room with speakers on hot summer days.
Anyway, I think you can't really go wrong with any speakers at a price above 200€.

Bogdan

[Jeff Hollande]

@ Bogdan :

Thank you for your feedback.

I fully understand and agree it is not easy to make a speakers' choice.
It is not possible to test them at home.
One has always to buy them first.
It is what it is.

Best regards, JH

[Lije Baley]

@ Bogdan :

Thank you for your feedback.

I fully understand and agree it is not easy to make a speakers' choice.
It is not possible to test them at home.
One has always to buy them first.
It is what it is.

Best regards, JH

Hi JH!

If you are looking for a pair of speakers or studio monitors, first try to answer these 3 questions:
1. what kind of a music do you produce, play or listen to? Is it something with a lot of bass (hip-hop, dance), something with a lot of acoustic instruments (pianos, guitars) or is it everything in equal proportion?
2. how loud do you intend to listen to them?
3. how much are you willing to spend?

With all the different manufacturers and models, it's very easy to make the wrong choice. Just because a speaker received rave reviews doesn't mean it's the right speaker for you. By answering these questions for yourself, you can narrow down the selection very quickly.

Depending on your location, you can talk to a sales rep from whichever store you plan on buying from but they can only steer you ever so slightly in the direction you need to go. It is always better to be as informed as possible and then, if necessary, ask a sales rep.

Cheers,
Antun

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Antun :

Thank you so much for your input. Very useful !

My answers :
1. Something with a lot of acoustic instruments (pianos, guitars) + electric guitars + background choirs + vocals.
2. Not too loud with a nice treble and bass sound when the volume is low.
3. Approx. Euro/US$ 250, --

Best wishes, JH

[Lacko]

Hi Jeff,
here are some keyboard amps reviews:
https://www.pianodreamers.com/keyboard-amplifier-guide/#amp-reviews
https://www.gawvi.com/best-powered-speaker-for-keyboard/
https://oldtimemusic.com/best-keyboard-amplifier/
As you can see, there are very different preferences. But is is interesting reading.

[BogdanH]

hi Jeff,
This discussion now actually belongs in Speaker and Headphones section... so I will try to be short.
I think there isn't much difference in sound quality (or sound characteristic) if we compare similar priced loudspeakers. All 200-300€ speakers have 5" woofer, all have similar box sizes, all have similar power and all come from China. So, unless you're unlucky (by buying a lemon), you can't really go wrong with any of them. That is, brand A isn't miles better than brand B in sound quality. And reviews today aren't a reliable source anymore: 90% is actually advertisement.

Narrow down to three models and then find out what you like or dislike on each of them. Something like this, for example:

KRK Rokit RP G3 -300€/pair
+modern design (if you like yellow membrane),
+Class C amplifier (is more efficient than Class AB amplifier: draws less power and generates less heat)
+has bass-reflex opening in front (means, doesn't matter where loudspeaker is placed)
+has built in equalizer for fine sound adjustment
+you can disable auto-turn-off feature (if you wish to)
+is considered as one of the best in this price range
-is more expensive and a little bigger than other two speakers

Presonus Eris E5 -210€/pair
+neutral design (doesn't look fancy)
+has bass-reflex opening in front
+all basic sound adjustments
+seems to have the best price/performance ratio

M-Audio BX3 D3 -200€/pair
+neutral design,
+slightly smaller than other two
+price
-has bass-reflex opening in back (bass will depend on where loudspeaker is placed)
-practically no sound adjustment possible
-heavier than other two

I hope that is of some help to you,
Bogdan

[Jeff Hollande]

Thanks, guys ... very much appreciated. JH 

[mixermixer]

I personally own the JBL LSR305 mk2's, they sound pretty good. I'm pretty fancy with my setup in that I augment a small sub and an external crossover so I have more bass on my setup.

[Lije Baley]

Hey Antun :

Thank you so much for your input. Very useful !

My answers :
1. Something with a lot of acoustic instruments (pianos, guitars) + electric guitars + background choirs + vocals.
2. Not too loud with a nice treble and bass sound when the volume is low.
3. Approx. Euro/US$ 250, --

Best wishes, JH

Hi JH!

OK, that's a start. At least now we know what to look for.

If your music is predominantly acoustic and not bass-heavy and you also won't be listening to it loudly, then I think a good 5'' monitor is all you will need. The price will be a limiting factor but no worries, there are some nice ones to choose in that category as well.

In no particular order, Here are some of the ones I'd consider:
KRK Rokit RP5 G4 ; an excellent all-arounder, with useful features and much better value than the 'Classic' model below, which is just slightly cheaper ; recommended
https://www.thomann.de/intl/krk_rokit_rp5_g4.htm
KRK Rokit RP5 Classic ; like the 'G4' above, it's a nice monitor but the 'G4' is only slightly more expensive and offers a lot more features, especially concerning EQ
https://www.thomann.de/intl/krk_rp5_rokit_g3.htm
M-Audio BX5 D3 ; a decent moderately-priced monitor, very powerful amplifiers for the size means this monitor packs a punch ; Kevlar (aramid fibre) woofer is uncommon at this price and is probably the reason why this monitor sounds good ; also, not to be underestimated, the amplifiers are SILENT which means there is no hiss coming from the speakers while the music is not playing and this too is uncommon, even with a VERY expensive monitor ; recommended as a cheaper alternative to the KRK
https://www.thomann.de/intl/active_nearfield_monitors.html?feature-47039%5B%5D=1x%204%22%2C%201x%201%22&feature-47039%5B%5D=1x%204%2C5%22%2C%201x%200%2C75%22&feature-47039%5B%5D=1x%204%2C5%22%2C%201x%201%22&feature-47039%5B%5D=1x%205%22&feature-47039%5B%5D=1x%205%22%2C%201x%201%22&feature-47039%5B%5D=1x%205%2C25%22&feature-47039%5B%5D=1x%206%2C5%22%2C%201x%201%22&feature-47039%5B%5D=1x%204%22&price-first=0&price-last=1500&gk=STMOAN&cme=false&filter=true
Presonus Eris E5 XT ; I don't much about this one but looking at the design features and specs, it seems like a good monitor
https://www.thomann.de/intl/presonus_eris_e5_xt.htm
Yamaha HS5 ; probably the most neutral midrange out of all of these which also means it can sound 'dull' and non-hyped – if it's for a serious production studio, this might be the right choice, but if it's for a home studio where you also need a monitor to inspire the senses, this is not it ; recommended with caution
https://www.thomann.de/intl/yamaha_hs_5.htm
Fluid Audio FX50 ; like the Presonus, this is a monitor I don't know but looking at the design feature, it seems rather interesting as it is unusual to find a coaxial driver array in a relatively affordable monitor ; the theoretical benefits of such a design mean coherent time-domain response which (usually) translates to excellent stereo imaging – this might be a good choice where there are lots of differently panned instruments or instruments that have a lot of motion within a stereo image
https://www.thomann.de/intl/fluid_audio_fx50.htm
JBL 305P MkII ; with JBL's reputation, this is probably a safe bet, but the others on this list should be equally good ; I am not certain whether that tweeter has a horn or a waveguide but I have a feeling this monitor can go LOUD
https://www.thomann.de/intl/jbl_lsr_305p_mkii.htm

Before you ask, I don't work for Thomann! 😊 I am just using their prices as a reference because more of often than not, they tend to be cheaper than other stores. If you're in the US, the prices will be lower than these, that's the way things are here in Europe.

I must admit, I am a bit disappointed that there are no monitors from Adam or Kali in this price range. Still, I believe these are worthy contenders. The decision will, of course, be based on what is available in your area and it goes without saying that you might find something not listed here.

I hope this helps you out! Perhaps we ought to consider starting a dedicated thread just on this topic. 😊

Best wishes,
Antun

[Nova227]

 

  The Bose S1 speaker is an excellent  speaker for the PSR . It is based on the Bose L1 array tower but smaller and lighter.

Nova 227.

[travlin-easy]

Take a look at the Logitech 5.1 sound systems - they are incredible and inexpensive. Many forum members used them for monitors at home, while other actually used them for restaurant and nite club jobs. https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/speakers/surround-sound-speakers.html

Good luck,

Gary

[mikf]

Jeff
Buy 5 inch monitors if you wish. But the way you describe your room, and your musical tastes, 4 inch will be more than sufficient. I have much larger rooms than you and the 4 inch monitors are almost overkill. I once used them for a small gig with about 50 people.
And much cheaper than 5 inch!
Mike