Topic: Does a new Clavinova mean a new Genos is headed our way?

[keynote]

Okay, I want to put this out there. In the past when Yamaha released a new Clavinova digital piano model about a year or so later Yamaha would then release a new TOTL arranger keyboard. As we know, Yammie just released the CVP-909 (900 series) that includes new built-in Bluetooth functionality/connectivity plus dramatically improved sounds that will blow you away, according to one source. Also, GrandTouch pedal technology makes its debut on the CVP-900 series. It's an innovative system, enabling the player to execute the ‘half pedaling’ technique with the damper pedal and hold it at ‘middle depth’ with ease. There could be other improvements too, although I couldn't tell from looking at the specification list. But here's the kicker. It has a listed price that is $1,000 (£804) more than the CVP 809. Therefore, we should also expect the Genos2 to be more expensive as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the Genos2 price tag is at least $500 more than the Genos. So, with a street price of, let's say, $6,500 with tax @ 7.75% (where I live) we're looking at just over $7,000 out the door. But we should also expect the same or nearly the same "dramatically improved sounds" that are on the CVP-900 series plus other features and functionality I would imagine also. So, in a nutshell, we could very well see the Genos2 (or whatever they call it) at the UK Keyboard Club Event in November or possibly early next year at NAMM 2024 on January 25-28 at the Anaheim Convention Center in Anaheim, CA. Which, btw, is about 7 miles or fewer from the Yamaha USA Music Division headquarters in Buena Park. But my hunch is it will be the former, where Peter Baartmans and Martin Harris will both be in attendance at the UK Keyboard Club event in November.  So something to look forward to if indeed Yamaha delivers. That's the sticking point, obviously.   

All the best, Mike   

[mikf]

Not correct. They introduced the CVP 809 in 2019. But no new TOTL arranger followed. I suspect the one year time difference in some previous models is more coincidence than a plan.
Mike

[ton37]

Or about Yamaha's strategy: a planned coincidence or coincidental planned?

[tyrosrick]

"But we should also expect the same or nearly the same "dramatically improved sounds"
IMHO, I don't feel my psyche or brain could wrap around any improvement beyond the incredible Genos sounds I already own! 

[ugawoga]

I think that the Piano's ,Strings and Guitars need improving on the Genos

[BogdanH]

I think that the Piano's ,Strings and Guitars need improving on the Genos

I fully agree on this (at least for SX700). Yamaha makes some of the finest Classical pianos in the world, but what we get in arranger is far from that (to put it mildly).

Bogdan

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Guys :

I ordered an additional new synth with a built in sampler. Will arrive next week.

I want to keep my beloved Tyros4 for hopefully at least another 2 years.
The new synth is offering me extra many very nice voices and the sampler looks to be an interesting additional tool for all my applications.

Have a nice weekend ! JH

[SciNote]

Hi Guys :

I ordered an additional new synth with a built in sampler. Will arrive next week.

I want to keep my beloved Tyros4 for hopefully at least another 2 years.
The new synth is offering me extra many very nice voices and the sampler looks to be an interesting additional tool for all my applications.

Have a nice weekend ! JH

Sounds interesting!  What kind of synth is it?  I use a Roland Gaia SH-01 in conjunction with my Yamaha keyboard.  Great little synth, but no sampling capability.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey SciNote :

Also a small synth : Korg Kross2.

Best wishes, JH

[Jeff Hollande]

"But we should also expect the same or nearly the same "dramatically improved sounds"
IMHO, I don't feel my psyche or brain could wrap around any improvement beyond the incredible Genos sounds I already own! 

If a Genos' owner is very happy with her/his present high end arranger I think there might be no urgent need to upgrade, right ?
 
It has been said here so often the Genos is a high end arranger with the best sound quality ever.
I think it is not easy to say goodbye to a winning horse.

I am still very happy with my very old horse, called Tyros4.
No reason to kill it yet, IMO.

Age is just a number, some people say.

JH

[EileenL]

There is always room for improvement for most things. It is up to us if we want it.

[tyrosman]

There is always room for improvement for most things. It is up to us if we want it.

Very True Eileen

[Amwilburn]

Okay, I want to put this out there. In the past when Yamaha released a new Clavinova digital piano model about a year or so later Yamaha would then release a new TOTL arranger keyboard. *snip*
All the best, Mike

Not quite.
PSR9000 released Feb 2000, CVP209 on same chipset late 2001 (oct?), then same chipset with a better piano sound and usb port CVP210 released Feb 2004. (but still based on PSR9000, they then released the 309 later that year. The CVP210 was a stop gap release, much like the PSR2100 from the PSR2000, and the PSR975 from the PSR970)
The T1 released in Oct 2002, then the CVP309 (using the same chipset and sound library) was released in Dec 2004
T2 released Oct 2005, CVP409 based on T2 Nov 2007
T3 released Oct 2008, CVP509 based on T3 June 2010
T4 released Sept 2010, CVP609 based on T4 Feb 2013
T5 released Nov 2013, CVP709 based on T5  Sept 2015
Genos (T6) released Dec 2017 (yes Oct elsewhere but I've been using Canadian release dates), CVP809 based on Genos Nov 2019

The point is, it's always TOTL arranger and *then* matching CVP, almost exactly 2 years every time.

This is the first time I ever recall a new CVP coming out *before* the TOTL....unless the CVP909 is just a stop-gap, like the CVP210 was (meaning if the CVP909 is also based on the Genos chipset/sound library). But I won't know til i get my hands on one and A/B them side by side. But spec wise, I can't see any difference yet.

Mark

[rikkisbears]

Hi,
tend to think it’s just strange times, since Covid, doubt any timeline’s are as they were for the release of new products.
We can speculate, but that’s about it.
Used to be roughly every 3 years , sometimes a bit longer, for a new top end arranger, a year or 2 later,the mid version.

Genos 2017?
PA4x.  2015,  PA5x 2022  , that’s roughly 7 years!!

Yamaha might not be rushing things either.

In the meantime , enjoy what you have.

I rushed out and sold my Pa4x  3 to 4 years ago thinking PA5x would be announced any day, wrong,  I could have enjoyed it for another 3 to 4 years  along with my sx900.

Too easy to get caught up in the  hype of new keyboard due, and one overlooks the quality and functions of what they already have.

[Oxford1035]

I think we’ll see a new Genos model at the end of November. A couple of months back dealers were offering free speakers with the Genos, which made me wonder then if something was afoot

Those that are members of Yamaha club in the UK will know that sadly the club is coming to an end soon. However, the usual Yamaha club weekend usually held around October every year won’t now be organised by the Yamaha club, but Yamaha itself has now taken on the event. More interestingly is the fact the dates have been pushed back by a week for some reason.

And the final thing that makes me think a new Genos is on the way is in the letters page of the latest Yamaha club magazine, Glyn Madden answered a post where he said he had a feeling something special may be in the offing.

You heard it here first 😉

Kind regards,

Russ

[J. Larry]

If, indeed, an improved or totally new Genos appears some time, what criteria will most use to determine if it’s an incremental improvement or, rather, a monumental, giant step forward? 

[Jeff Hollande]

There is always room for improvement for most things. It is up to us if we want it.

I agree.
A Genos' mid-term update might also be among the possibilities ... 

Best wishes, JH

[usaraiya]

I would suspect that after 6-7 years, Yamaha would not release "just an update" for their TOTL arranger as that would not bring in much revenue, and as they are in the business of making money, it would not be a good idea.

By the way, I came across this feature of the Genos that I did not know, and for many of you, it may be old news, but it was exciting for me and maybe for others!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hUjLttHEIo&t=159s

Uday
 

[EileenL]

Yes this is a great little feature and you can have some real fun but I don't think many use it.

[Jeff Hollande]

I would suspect that after 6-7 years, Yamaha would not release "just an update" for their TOTL arranger as that would not bring in much revenue, and as they are in the business of making money, it would not be a good idea.

Recently one said Yamaha have approx. 800 pcs Genos arrangers in stock yet. No idea if this information is correct though.
If so, an extra update and/or a special price reduction might help them to get rid of their stock before they are announcing, launching the Genos' successor.
Time will tell, who knows.

JH

[ugawoga]

Hi Eileen
I used the  vocoder on Mr Blue Sky which i played edited and finalized.
It did a very good job. All done on the Genos.
Just a white lie . I sampled the choirs with Sample Robot and combined a male section sampled from Sampletank 4  with a Genos section and that made the hi's and lows correct for me when i played them. I wanted to get real close to the ELO version.
Sample Robot is great and works well with Genos as SF2 files.
.
This is great if you have a voice like foghorn Leghorn. Also great for futuristic like Jarre music.
https://soundcloud.com/silver-machine/mrblue-sky


You can do quite a bit with the vocoders on the Genos if you want.


All the Best
John

[EileenL]

Hello Jeff,
  I don't think we will see any more updates like version 2 and I think all the talk about the next Genos is Guess work.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hello Jeff,
  I don't think we will see any more updates like version 2 and I think all the talk about the next Genos is Guess work.

I think you are right, Eileen.
Best regards, JH

[Amwilburn]

Oh wow, John, that rendition of Blue sky is so accurate, i kept expecting the singing to start!

Mark

[keynote]

Not correct. They introduced the CVP 809 in 2019. But no new TOTL arranger followed. I suspect the one year time difference in some previous models is more coincidence than a plan.
Mike

Hi Mike, you are right about the CVP-809, but it was launched less than two years after the Genos and since Yamaha has shifted to a slower product release business model I choose instead to focus on the CVP-900 series. In that case, if past is prologue, we could theoretically see a Genos2 around a year from now but Yamaha of course is not limited to a constrained timeline so the Genos2 might pop up at the Yamaha UK Keyboard Club event in November. That way, Martin Harris and Peter Baartmans would have a chance to showcase it before winter NAMM in the USA on January 25-28, 2024. Excitement would build during and after the UK Keyboard Club event in the run-up to NAMM 2024 where it would receive a broader audience and a greater opportunity to put it in the limelight for the whole world to see and hear. Or so the theory goes, anyway.  But of course we don't really know what Yamaha has in mind or if a Genos2 is actually on the table in the way of current product development since Yammie runs a very tight-lipped ship, needless to say. In the meantime, the Genos is still the king of the hill as far as I'm concerned, having listened extensively to both the Ketron Event and the Korg Pa5X over the last several months. I think the Pa5X has better pianos possibly, better Pads, better Strings perhaps, and probably better B3 type Organ sounds, Seamless Sound Switching and also USB 3. The Event has audio styles that improve upon Yamaha's audio style accompaniment with its Bass & Guitar backing. Beyond that, the midi-driven voices are basically in the same ballpark as the Tyros 4/5, in my opinion. In other words, very decent but nothing spectacular. To be fair, I've never played the Event or the Pa5X, so this is going by what I've heard so far on the internet.

All the best, Mike   

[keynote]

Well, well, well. I just stumbled upon a relatively new YouTube video of the Ketron Event demonstrating the organ and accordion voices. The organs and accordions sound very good to excellent. And the Farfisa organ sounds wonderful, I must admit. These are factory demos by Ketron, but it gives one hope that inside the Ketron there are other jewels yet to be discovered. Also, PSR forums member Casper (from Croatia) bought or borrowed??, a Ketron Event recently that he's testing out. Maybe he'll post some videos playing the Ketron which would help people better decide if the Event is worth the price of admission. 👍 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGxKGL_TvYk

All the best, Mike

[ugawoga]

Oh wow, John, that rendition of Blue sky is so accurate, i kept expecting the singing to start!



Hi Mark

That is the million dollar question --The answer is  "I cannot sing for a Toffee. Like Ozzie,i would frighten all the birds off!!
I just managed the vocoder. It took a bit of practice to get my voice and chord playing in synchro. It is weird at first.
I enjoyed doing that song. I practiced the whole song quite a few times before recording.
I would say to all ,get vocoding as it is good fun.
Going through Wavelab at the moment. Always big hills to climb.
It is unbelievable what you can do with the Genos when you delve deeper.


All the best
John

[rikkisbears]

By the way, I came across this feature of the Genos that I did not know, and for many of you, it may be old news, but it was exciting for me and maybe for others!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hUjLttHEIo&t=159s

Uday
 

Hi,
I would have liked to check if it also worked on the sx900, but I don’t have a microphone that works with the sx.😞

[ugawoga]

I'm still trying to find  Sparky the piano!!!!!!

[rikkisbears]

Just a white lie . I sampled the choirs with Sample Robot and combined a male section sampled from Sampletank 4  with a Genos section and that made the hi's and lows correct for me when i played them. I wanted to get real close to the ELO version.
Sample Robot is great and works well with Genos as SF2 files.
.
This is great if you have a voice like foghorn Leghorn. Also great for futuristic like Jarre music.
https://soundcloud.com/silver-machine/mrblue-sky

John

Hi, that sounds great.
 Never heard of Sample Robot till a few days ago, since then, a couple of mentions over on Korg  forum, and now you.
Must check it out and see what it does.
Thanks for sharing.

[SciNote]

Hi Eileen
I used the  vocoder on Mr Blue Sky which i played edited and finalized.
It did a very good job. All done on the Genos.
Just a white lie . I sampled the choirs with Sample Robot and combined a male section sampled from Sampletank 4  with a Genos section and that made the hi's and lows correct for me when i played them. I wanted to get real close to the ELO version.
Sample Robot is great and works well with Genos as SF2 files.
.
This is great if you have a voice like foghorn Leghorn. Also great for futuristic like Jarre music.
https://soundcloud.com/silver-machine/mrblue-sky

You can do quite a bit with the vocoders on the Genos if you want.


All the Best
John

Great freakin' Scott!  That was BEYOND awesome!  Most of it sounded like it could've just been pulled from the original ELO studio recordings with the vocals replaced with strings!  ELO has been one of my favorite bands over the years, and you nailed this one to the wall!  Great song from one of their best albums.

The vocoder sections, as well as that square wave synth near the beginning, around 1:15, were spot on.  And I love that you included the actual ending, as well.  One interesting thing I've read about that last vocoder part -- where it goes "Mister Blue Skyyyy-yyy" right at the end.  I had always thought that is what was being said for decades, but then I read that what is really being said is "Please turn me ov-er" -- As in, this was on a vinyl record when it first came out in 1977, and that was the last track on the side, so it was now time to turn the record over!  I don't know -- I've listened to the original ELO recording since then, and I could see this being the case.

This makes me want to dust off my transcription of the intro to "Standing in the Rain" and get a recording going for that!

[Oxford1035]

Whilst it may indeed be guess work as to when a new Genos may be released, as well as the points l mentioned before, by November, it will be 6 years since the Genos was released. Korg and Ketron have released new keyboards so l doubt Yamaha will want to wait much longer. l'll happily wager a new Genos at the end of November this year is more likely than not.

Kind regards,

Russ

[pjd]

launched less than two years after the Genos
6 years since the Genos was released

I don't mean to pick on anyone in particular. Everyone is free to look into their personal crystal ball.

But, geez.    I read the same sort of stuff on other forums -- trying to predict the next Montage based on timing and spot product shortages.

I've given up on this kind of "navel gazing." The only reliable information is the kind of evidence admissible in a court of law -- documentation. A clever soul found this kind of evidence for the CK series. As to the next Genos, Montage, AN-X? Forget about it. 

Grumpy old man -- pj

[Oxford1035]

Nothing to do with navel gazing. When Glyn Madden makes the comment he did in the Yamaha magazine, a gentleman with close links to Yamaha for a long time now, added to the other points including Yamaha pushing back the club event etc, then I’d be more inclined to think something is likely to happen sooner rather than later. Anyway, I’d much rather look forward to a new keyboard than look at my navel 😉.

Kind regards,

Russ

[ugawoga]

Hi Sci note
Thank you very much for your comments and will keep on trying.
I said at the end Mr Blue Sky stay and at the beginning i put that little my stamp on there.
Now eventally finishing Mathew and Son.
Sample Robot is fantastic but you have to be careful with the size of your samples as more notes equals lots of megabytes.
Mostly samples on each octave is good.
I just hope on the next Genos that we can load in one sample at a time or just load banks as on most synths. I have the palava with packs.
If only, then we can access sound from a usb stick easily

All the best
John