Author Topic: Yamaha new products at NAMM 2023... unfortunately no new Montage or new Genos 😢  (Read 24114 times)

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Offline usaraiya

Seven years ago, when the then-new Genos was released, Yamaha prepared us for the event by showing us three months of teasers to get us talking about it and getting mighty excited, which would increase their early sales.
So, I would expect that Yamaha will herald in the new G2 using the same rollout strategy, three months of teasers before the release! Pure speculation, but something to look forward to!

Uday
 :)

Offline Danny1972

Hello Danny,
I read in many forums that some would like 90 keys, that it be white, that it obey the voice.
Of course, I exaggerate at will.
But, it must be understood that YAMAHA has already finalized its product, that it will be released at the end of November at the beginning of December at a price close to its neighbors. So what is the point of speculating in a vacuum.
It's like saying I want the new TESLA to have the steering wheel in the middle of the cabin. Elon Musk has nothing to do with it. He will release his model as he planned.
It will therefore be like this for Genos and the discussions could still drag on for 9 months, that would not change anything.
Who are we to influence the trade policy of such a giant?
As soon as it is understood, everything is said. Of course, speech is free in the forum, but it still has to be reasoned, rational and above all constructive.
And to conclude, I will say that pedaling in the vacuum of knowledge has never made things happen.

Hello colas,

Thank you for your post and I appreciate your thoughts :)
 

Offline ugawoga

Elon Musk did put a dummy inside the Tesla ;D
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

keynote

  • Guest
Why is everybody so obsessed with getting the latest Genos?   I have never understood the long winded discussions about the latest keyboards.  Admittedly  I am turning into a "Grumpy Old Woman" but everything i ever read when I was choosing my keyboard gave Genos as the be all and end all of all keyboards. it seems to win everything hands down---so why don't people just play them and enjoy what they did actually choose to buy instead of obsessing over when the next one will come out.   How much better can it be than the one you have already got??????

I'll probably be banned from the site now !!! >:( >:(
Irene

You make a good point, Irene. I think it's mostly a man thing, although Rikki from Down Under said she's also interested in the latest/greatest releases when they come out. The Genos is top-notch, no doubt about it. A professional keyboardist can really make the Genos sing. People like Peter Baartmans from the Netherlands and Martin Harris of the UK, etc. That said, I don't think Yamaha wants to rest on its laurels too long. There are other keyboard manufacturers like Korg, Roland, Ketron, Kurzweil, Casio, Medeli, etc., that also want a piece of the pie and Yamaha needs to keep up with the competition or could be caught flat-footed. In other words, I don't think Yammie wants to give up market share easily.

In fact, Yamaha orchestrated two websites, one called YamahaSynth.com, and the other IdeaScale.com for the purpose of gaining insight into what their customers and potential customers want in future keyboard products. That means, Yamaha is interested in maintaining and gaining market share and of course bringing products to market that reflect current trends and hopefully the latest technologies. Guys that play keyboards thrive on new products that deliver the best sounds and latest technology in a reasonably affordable package. If a Genos2 is released by Yamaha (or perhaps they'll call it something else) the buzz and excitement will immediately follow, especially if the Genos2, etc., meets or beats all the hype that Yamaha touts. The Genos still sells reasonably well, from what I understand, but it's getting long in the tooth and behind the times technology-wise. OTOH, if the Genos2 finally arrives but doesn't meet or beat people's expectation, there are other options on the table for people to consider if Yamaha doesn't deliver on said product(s). Both the Korg Pa5X and the Ketron Event will be on the market for another 5–7 years before something else is released, most likely. In the interim, Yamaha could take the slow boat to China route and wait several more years before releasing a Genos2 or a new Montage. The ball is in Yamaha's court. We as consumers are at the whim of companies that produce products for sale. It is up to Yamaha to get the ball rolling. Yamaha's customers and potential customers can simply try and persuade them to get the ball rolling on their behalf. ;)  That's what we're doing on this forum and other forums, and I think Yamaha does browse this forum on occasion to see what we're up to, and hopefully they're taking notes.  8)

All the best, Mike 

Offline EileenL

I don't think there is much left to discus. Yamaha Korg and Ketron Have been welll covered.
  Indeed most of the idea's people have for the new Genos are also posted on IdeaScale.com word for word but no answers are given.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2023, 12:01:41 AM by EileenL »
Eileen
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Offline ton37

 ;D ;D Mmmm..I wonder.. peoples reactions are sometimes 'remarqueble'. Why one  react at certain post and says: this is so boring  or all is said a hundred times already. Also pronounce that one quit the discussion because the content lead to nothing. By writing such kind of reaction one in fact participate on that discussion. I doubt if one succeed to convince other (future) participans to stop replying on a certain issue. Why not simply ignore or don't reply ... that's not so difficult ... or it is ... ?  ;)
My best regards,
Ton
 

;D ;D Mmmm..I wonder.. peoples reactions are sometimes 'remarqueble'. Why one  react at certain post and says: this is so boring  or all is said a hundred times already. Also pronounce that one quit the discussion because the content lead to nothing. By writing such kind of reaction one in fact participate on that discussion. I doubt if one succeed to convince other (future) participans to stop replying on a certain issue. Why not simply ignore or don't reply ... that's not so difficult ... or it is ... ?  ;)

You don't need to wonder, it's a part of human nature. :) Just examine your own feelings and why you felt you had to comment on why others had reacted and posted. You have now participated in a discussion about which people have posted there feelings on boring, meaningless comments. Why did you not ignore? That's not so difficult, or is it?  ;D
Genos2, Montage M6, Maschine Micro NI, Cubase 13, Komplete 14 Ultimate, Arturia Analog Lab, HALion7, Groove Agent 5, HS8 Speakers.
 

Offline ton37

 ;D I fully agree with you!  ;)
My best regards,
Ton
 

You make a good point, Irene. I think it's mostly a man thing, although Rikki from Down Under said she's also interested in the latest/greatest releases when they come out.

All the best, Mike

Hi Mike,
definitely, been a keyboard junkie since the 80’s.  Just find the progress of the technology fascinating. Have a very indulgent husband 😀, though he’s probably saved heaps over the years, as, I hate shopping  ( except for keyboards), worked it’s cheaper to replace keyboard every 2 to 3 years , than buy a wardrobe full of new clothes every year. Haha.

Nowadays I figure why not. Might as well enjoy what ever time I have left looking forward to ,” what’s next?”   😃
Best wishes
Rikki
Korg PA5X 88 note
SX 900
Band in a Box 2022
 

Offline Danny1972

Hi Mike,
definitely, been a keyboard junkie since the 80’s.  Just find the progress of the technology fascinating. Have a very indulgent husband 😀, though he’s probably saved heaps over the years, as, I hate shopping  ( except for keyboards), worked it’s cheaper to replace keyboard every 2 to 3 years , than buy a wardrobe full of new clothes every year. Haha.

Nowadays I figure why not. Might as well enjoy what ever time I have left looking forward to ,” what’s next?”   😃

Rikki, as you know I am the same as you, I like the term keyboard junkie haha! I now have over 20 keyboards, I recently bought a Pa900 to complete my Korg collection, that is, the Korg keyboards that I either used to own and want back or to experience what I missed at the time and so getting them whilst I still can and at a good price. This same with Yamaha as well, I have all the Yamahas I want now as well. Having this many is quite beneficial as it also allows family members to experience arranger keyboards too including my children which I am hoping they will all eventually get into and therefore I will give them one each if that's the case, so there are benefits to this as well. It's wonderful to have such a great hobby :)

Offline ugawoga

Banter is good and gets people together 8)
Nice to have loads of opinions

Anything is better than watcing reality shows on tv 8)
« Last Edit: April 20, 2023, 09:57:22 AM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 
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Offline BogdanH

... I now have over 20 keyboards..
hahaha.. that makes you record holder, I guess. Makes me curious how your room looks  :)

hmm.. I definitely need a 2nd keyboard..  ::)

Bogdan

PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline Danny1972

hahaha.. that makes you record holder, I guess. Makes me curious how your room looks  :)

hmm.. I definitely need a 2nd keyboard..  ::)

Bogdan

Haha! It's not too bad when most of them are in a keyboard bag, don't take up too much room. I have three keyboards on stands that I use every day (Genos, Pa5x & Event), and the rest are in keyboard bags, a few in my main room and the rest in the spare room. My dad has 3 of my keyboards at the moment so that helps a little. My sister is looking to use one too so that could be another one soon.

If you get a second keyboard I would recommend the Pa1000 or Pa700, both are great and would compliment your SX700 unless you would want another Yamaha. I think Korg's next step would be to replace the Pa1000/Pa700 but not sure when that would be and it's something I am really looking forward to because the new OS of the Pa5x is so good and so easy to use that I am finding it's becoming a bit easier to use that the Genos which I never thought would be the case but it is. The way the user banks work for styles now is so easy, no more .SETS to worry about and it's like using windows explorer now.

Rikki, as you know I am the same as you, I like the term keyboard junkie haha! I now have over 20 keyboards,
*** Danny, I knew you had quite a collection, didn’t realise you had 20 wow.  I’m down to 2.  Even though hubby lets me buy new ones, I always to try and sell my old ones, keeps him happy 😀
Best wishes
Rikki
Korg PA5X 88 note
SX 900
Band in a Box 2022
 

hahaha.. that makes you record holder, I guess. Makes me curious how your room looks  :)

hmm.. I definitely need a 2nd keyboard..  ::)

Bogdan
You do Bogdan,  a Korg of some sort. Haha. Variety is the spice of life😀
Best wishes
Rikki
Korg PA5X 88 note
SX 900
Band in a Box 2022
 

Offline BogdanH

...
If you get a second keyboard I would recommend the Pa1000 or Pa700, both are great and would compliment your SX700 unless you would want another Yamaha...
Currently I'm saving money, so anything can happen until I'm "ready".. but right now I'm flirting with idea to get Pa5X -to make a jump worth jumping, so to speak. Of course I would consider Pa1000 successor, but considering Korg current supply capability, I don't expect that to happen soon. Anyway, I'm trying to get the best I can and stop looking for a long while.

@rikkibears .. stop doing that -I'm already on fire  ::) :o  :-\ ;D

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Hey Danny :

I own 3 high end pro guitars, a Marshall amp, many guitar sound accessories, a Tyros4 ( for my use one of the best arrangers ever made by Yamaha ), MAC and Win computers and last but not least : I ordered a brand new Korg synthesizer today.
 
Most people do not understand why an old man of 75, living in a small apartment, needs so many music toys and never seems to stop buying them ...  ;D


I have a lot of fun and ... I feel very happy I am crazy !

Keep well, my friend !

Best regards, JH

« Last Edit: April 20, 2023, 02:26:48 PM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Offline Danny1972

Hey Danny :

I own 3 high end pro guitars, a Marshall amp, many guitar sound accessories, a Tyros4 ( for my use one of the best arrangers ever made by Yamaha ), MAC and Win computers and last but not least : I ordered a brand new Korg synthesizer today.
 
Most people do not understand why an old man of 75, living in a small apartment, needs so many music toys and never seems to stop buying them ...  ;D


I have a lot of fun and ... I feel very happy I am crazy !

Keep well, my friend !

Best regards, JH

Hi Jeff,

And that's exactly what it's all about, to have fun, play music and enjoy yourself doing so. I know that if I didn't start a career in IT as a profession I would more than likely be playing music full time instead which I would have loved but IT was the path and I can't look back now. But having these instruments as a hobbyist instead is fantastic as well.

The T4 is a great instrument and when I finally managed to get my hands on one in the past, it did blow me away. It's one of the rare keyboards that had that affect on me, only a few have ever done and the T4 is one of them.

Congrats on your new Korg synth, that's fantastic, what did you get?
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Thanks Danny :

A small ( 61 n ) synth but a good addition ( I guess ) to my beloved TY4 : Korg Kross2 61.


Best wishes, JH
« Last Edit: April 20, 2023, 05:32:23 PM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Offline ugawoga

I reckon a Kord Wavestate combined with Genos would be a good idea :)
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Currently I'm saving money, so anything can happen until I'm "ready".. but right now I'm flirting with idea to get Pa5X -to make a jump worth jumping, so to speak. Of course I would consider Pa1000 successor, but considering Korg current supply capability, I don't expect that to happen soon. Anyway, I'm trying to get the best I can and stop looking for a long while.

@rikkibears .. stop doing that -I'm already on fire  ::) :o  :-\ ;D

Bogdan

Hi Bogdan , sorry 😔.  For one, they’re still not that readily available,  and another ,anyone that’s asked, I’ve recommended they wait till next update. Note so much for people who want to just enjoy playing music, but the ones who enjoy delving into the workstation functions.  Some are still missing.
Trying to make you feel better.😁
Worth waiting and getting something you can keep for a long time, be it a Korg or a Genos  when the new model is announced..

Had I not misread the signs 3 to 4 years ago  and sold my pa4x(ie I thought Pa4x was going to be replaced) my Pa4x would now be 6 to 7 years old. Would have been good value for money.

Same for Genos owners 5 years plus.

Maybe the time has gone where they bring out a replacement every 3 years.  Probably good for junkies like myself😆. ( and Danny) haha.
Best wishes
Rikki
Korg PA5X 88 note
SX 900
Band in a Box 2022
 

Offline Danny1972

Maybe the time has gone where they bring out a replacement every 3 years.  Probably good for junkies like myself😆. ( and Danny) haha.

hahahaha! Well I think you will be a bit shocked with the message I sent you. I am truly a proper keyboard junkie for sure! You'll find out why when you read my message !!!!
 

hahahaha! Well I think you will be a bit shocked with the message I sent you. I am truly a proper keyboard junkie for sure! You'll find out why when you read my message !!!!

You definitely are Danny. Haha
Best wishes
Rikki
Korg PA5X 88 note
SX 900
Band in a Box 2022
 

tyrosman

  • Guest
I did not think Irene was leaving the forum but just not going to take part in this thread anymore.
  After all there are still many members that look forward to getting information on there currant keyboards and asking for help where required.
  Most forums became very quite a while back because there were no new flagships from Yamaha coming along and sad to say but nothing to moan about like how bad Piano's were.
  These new threads crept in about the opposition and for my part have gone on far to long. Yes it is nice to know what else is out there but going on and on about it takes away the enjoyment of coming onto the forum for some. Come on all you Yammie's lets get back to our own topics. Why be on a Yamaha forum that is producing such long threads about other keyboards.
  The new Genos or what ever they call it will be along at some point and also the price it will be. Then we make our discissions.
very True Eileen ;)

Offline ugawoga

EVERYTHING COMES TO HE WHO WAITS :)
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline mikf

If only that were true"…………..
Mike
 

Offline ugawoga

NOVEMBER WILL BE HERE IN A JIFFY!! :)
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Amwilburn

Seven years ago, when the then-new Genos was released, Yamaha prepared us for the event by showing us three months of teasers to get us talking about it and getting mighty excited, which would increase their early sales.
So, I would expect that Yamaha will herald in the new G2 using the same rollout strategy, three months of teasers before the release! Pure speculation, but something to look forward to!

Uday
 :)
My goodness, did you get the Genos a year and a half before the rest of us??  ;) ;D

Genos launched Oct 2017 for USA & parts of Europe, Dec 2017 in Canada. (5.5 years ago from your post, but I agree it feels like it's been longer)

Mark

Offline ugawoga

I  read somewhere now forgotten that a salesman had approached Yamaha and they said they cannot divulge any information.
In my book if Yamaha said they cannot divulge information, it means there is something in the ethers.
Elemetary my dear Watson. :)
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline usaraiya

I apologize, Mark, senior moments do occur especially when the events have been ages ago!

Uday
 :D

Offline mikf

Wasn’t doing much today - rainy sitting around bored - so I was looking back on the forum and came across this older thread and decided to add a couple of comments.
Bogdan , unfortunately true margins are driven by much more than just manufacturing cost. While it is correct that electronic keyboards have lower direct manufacturing costs, they often have significant other overhead costs, like design, development and support. And because the main selling platform has largely migrated to the internet rather than specialist shops and studios, they are under huge competitive pricing pressure. Margins on electronic instruments are often now razor thin, while that hasn't yet been the case for quality pianos.
And on Jeff’s point, he is correct that large corporations are organized into smaller units with a management team tasked with profitable day to day running. But the job of senior corporate management is not just to set targets and monitor these units. It is to set corporate direction, and setting direction is much more than just what is or is not currently profitable. It looks at longer term things like market trends, corporate strategy, availability of investment cash, and where best to leverage that investment. 
Mike
« Last Edit: July 31, 2023, 02:55:29 PM by mikf »
 

Offline BogdanH

Wasn’t doing much today - rainy sitting around bored - ...
I know such days  :)

Quote
Bogdan , unfortunately true margins are driven by much more than just manufacturing cost...
-I'm fully aware of that.

Quote
While it is correct that electronic keyboards have lower direct manufacturing costs, they often have significant other overhead costs, like design, development and support. ...
Support... what kind of support exactly? Hardware wise, there's only warranty repair... which luckily, isn't needed that often. If at all, then things break (or wear out) after few years and then parts & labor is paid by customer anyway. And on software side, there's nothing to be supported (ok, there could be, but it isn't). To put it with another words: right now nothing would be different for me, if Yamaha factory stopped existing at the time when I bough my keyboard.

Quote
Margins on electronic instruments are often now razor thin...
Agree. However it's important to know that margins are actually dictated by manufacturer (Yamaha in this case). Yamaha has different net pricing depending on market strength (USA, Europe, etc.). And to be competitive in region, a retailer can only add a minimal margin -let's say 10% (I speculate). Now let's assume every retailer in every market region has 10% margin. But if we compare prices for PSR-SX900, for example, in:
Europe: 2045€
India: 1191€
-then we can imagine how much margin is kept by manufacturer.
Philosophy is quite simple: because consumer in wealthy region can afford to pay more, manufacturer just sets net price accordingly higher -this has nothing to do with manufacturing costs (I'm sure that Yamaha makes profit in India too).

Doesn't matter if I'm right or wrong in my thinking... these things are always darn too expensive  :)

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline mikf

Bogdan, you’re certainly right that customer support  may not be not be huge, but my experience was that a lot of support went to the sub contractors, manufacturing, suppliers, etc. , so it’s always there and has a significant overhead cost.
But my main thought was that everyone on the forum is speculating on how Yamaha has to produce a competitive product to Korg asap, and what needs to be in it, but really we have no idea on what the thinking is at corporate level in Yamaha.
Corporations look at things so differently from customers.
Mike
« Last Edit: July 31, 2023, 05:21:27 PM by mikf »
 

Corporations look at things so differently from customers.
+1
 

Offline pjd

Support... what kind of support exactly?

A friendly chap at Yamaha USA just helped me out. I'm sure he and his family like to eat and have a place to live.  :)

Yamaha's prices are relatively consistent across regions after currency conversion, VAT, tariffs and whatnot are taken into account. Yamaha may not feel compelled to sell up-scale products into all regions, however. Product offerings do vary by region.

Oh, well, feeling tired today -- pj


-- pj

Offline Yama

I  read somewhere now forgotten that a salesman had approached Yamaha and they said they cannot divulge any information.
In my book if Yamaha said they cannot divulge information, it means there is something in the ethers.
Elemetary my dear Watson. :)


A German supplier, in response to my enquiry, informed me their sales department had contacted Yamaha, no information on a new Genos and/or its potential logistics/delivery is currently available, and that if such information were made available to the supplier, “they regrettably will not  share with customers”…  :)

The anticipation is as sweet as the anticipation for my upcoming first child (expected to arrive in Feb :)

I waited a long time for the KorgPA5x (88), and then unfortunately had to return it after 10 days, buttons were loose (floating), could not switch between headphones and speakers without unplugging or turning off the speakers (my DGX-670 had this option)…
 

Offline travlin-easy

This entire thread is based entirely on speculation! No one really has a clue what Yamaha or any other manufacturer will be bringing to the table in the next few months, or years.

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 
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Offline EileenL

You are right there Gary. Yamaha never lets us know until just before it is ready to launch a new product. What will be will be.
Eileen
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Offline soryt

I ordered it a year ago , and I want it now  :)
Genos & YC61 and Tannoy Gold 5 Monitors
My You Tube Channel : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmC6hdAR1v5lYN8twfn0YbA?view_as=subscriber
 

Offline Amwilburn

every retailer in every market region has 10% margin. But if we compare prices for PSR-SX900, for example, in:
Europe: 2045€
India: 1191€
-then we can imagine how much margin is kept by manufacturer.
Philosophy is quite simple: because consumer in wealthy region can afford to pay more, manufacturer just sets net price accordingly higher -this has nothing to do with manufacturing costs (I'm sure that Yamaha makes profit in India too).

Doesn't matter if I'm right or wrong in my thinking... these things are always darn too expensive  :)

Bogdan

I'm afraid you're missing the mark there; I can tell you the difference isn't being made up by the retailer, and most likely not (much) by Yamaha either.

It has a *lot* to do with duties, & certification, which all ties up to population (or more accurately, market size).



I *wish* I could get a PSRsx900 for the price of 1 in India (that's well below cost here). But why?

When something is brought into a country, there's certification (among other things) that costs *per model* to certify. A different colour counts as a different model, hence why often there are other colours that aren't brought into North America (CSP170 white for example). I can't remember the rates, but it was in the hundreds of thousands $$$. I'm betting India doesn't have those certification requirements.

Oh and support? Yamaha does have a technical dept for some of the more deep delve questions, but for the most part, *local* support is supposed to be given by the dealers (like us).

Offline travlin-easy

Bogdon, retailers could not open the doors to the stores with a 10 percent markup - 10 percent would not even cover the electric bill, let along taxes, store rental costs, water, heat, employee salary, employee taxes, etc... If you know someone that says they are only making 10 percent on keyboard sales, they either are not telling you the truth, or neglecting to tell you that it's what they are making after expenses, or not profit. I spent a lot of years in the retail business, with my own store, a sporting goods store that also sold boats, motors and trailers to 21 feet in length - high dollar items compared to arranger keyboards. The markup on them was about 15 percent, but the net profit was at best 2 percent. However, some of the sales exceeded $40,000 back then. The markup on small items, fishing tackle, rods, reels, marine accessories, hunting gear, etc..., was 35 to 40 percent.

The big markups in the retail business here are in furniture and appliances, which can be as much as 120 percent. And, they always want to sell you a service or insurance policy along with the product. Lots of bucks to be made there, as well.

All the best,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline mikf

To be fair to Bogdan, he never said that the typical margin was 10%. He used it as an example to make the point that if the retail price varied between retailers/countries by a huge amount, then some retailers must be making a much bigger margin than others. His same argument holds even if he had used 25% as the number.
However, he is wrong there anyway, because that all assumes the retailer’s cost from the manufacturer is similar, and that might not be true. In fact it almost certainly is not the case.
 There are many ways the manufacturer might justify different prices into different markets. Yamaha might be prepared to swallow almost no gross margin in one market if they can make enough in a different market, to cover operating expenses (indirect costs like R and D, admin etc, by having higher prices elsewhere., and still therefore generate a workable global net margin. Happens in the global corporations all, the time.
This kind of differential pricing might often make sense if it keeps manufacturing volume high ie fills the factories.
Mike

Offline BogdanH

Mike, thank you for explaining that "10% margin" thing -yes, was meant as an example obviously.

My profession was sales/marketing (not consumer electronics, though) and so I think I know a little about how it works. But that doesn't necessary mean that I'm right in my assumptions. I say assumptions, because we have no evidence -is just a discussion.

Every country has import costs, taxes, vat, etc. and although they might differ in naming, percent wise, the end result is usually very similar -economics dictates that. That is, if import price of some article is 100€, end price will be (let's say) 80% higher and that's true for US, Europe and India. Yes, it might be only 70% higher in some countries or it can be even 110% higher in others, but this is less relevant in this case. I mean, between 170€ and 210€ is only 24% difference -even in this case, import costs difference is 40%! What does make an important difference, is import price -because end price is (percent wise) based on import price.

I agree with Mike, that manufacturer can be ready to sell at some countries with very minimal profit: being present in market can be very important for future. However, I'm not sure that's the case for India. Why I think so? Because India has more than four times the population than US (for example) and I'm quite sure that much more PSR keyboards are sold in India than in US -probably more than in US+Europe together. And because of that, I just can't imagine that Yamaha would work on such huge market with minimal profit and cover profit difference with sales in US and Europe.
In short, we pay here more, because we can afford. Average monthly income in India is about 450€ and so the person there need to pay two monthly incomes for keyboard -now compare that with monthly income in US or Europe. And Yamaha knows that.

Ok, time for some practicing on my overpriced keyboard  ;D
Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline mikf

Well you are right Bogdan, we don’t have enough data to know exactly the Yamaha strategies. But some things are universal. If you sell at negative gross margin that is a form of economic suicide, because then every keyboard is sold lower than COGS and requires a ‘subsidy’. If the lower price generates increased sales volume, - which is the whole point of lower price - all you are doing is losing more and more money and are on a death spiral.
But, theoretically at least, most overhead costs remain fixed. Lower prices, provided they don’t get below the point of negative gross margin, increase sales and the increase in sales volume therefore absorbs more overhead recovery. So I could see someone saying, for example, dropping the price in India will generate four times more sales volume,  and that although each keyboard has a lower than ideal net margin, the total margin from India, and overall contribution to overhead is much improved.

mike
« Last Edit: August 06, 2023, 11:20:44 AM by mikf »