Topic: Yamaha new products at NAMM 2023... unfortunately no new Montage or new Genos 😢

[keynote]

Here's the list of new Yamaha products that will be showcased at NAMM 2023 at the Anaheim Convention Center in Anaheim, CA on April 13-15, just a few days away. Disappointing for arranger keyboardists and traditional workstation users, since there will be no update to either the Montage or the Genos, unfortunately. PS: The synthesizer that was talked about from Yamaha's March 1st newsletter is the new CK line of keyboards. So I guess the MODX+ addition that was released months ago doesn't count?

https://usa.yamaha.com/namm/ You will probably need to scroll down a bit to see the new products.

All the best, Mike

Another PS: So the next real opportunity for Yamaha to make Waves 2.0 a reality will be in October/November 2023, at the Yamaha Keyboard Club event in the U.K. or NAMM 2024 on January 25-28 also in Anaheim, CA. Oh, well.   

[Toril S]

Thanks Mike. As suspected. The good thing is that our old keyboads still work😀 Genos is still exciting.

[p$manK32]

They mention the new P-S500 digital piano and the CK series, both of which had already been announced recently. It says “check back on April 13th for special product announcement”. So something else will be announced on the 13th, whether it's a new Montage or Genos who knows. MODX+ is not featured as news probably because it was released in September of last year, which was a while ago.

Rich

[pjd]

People are still awaiting the Yamaha unicorn. 

Yamaha do not live rent free in my head, but who knows?

Keep playing and have fun -- pj

[ton37]

Yeah right, unless you are 'convinced' that another brand suites you better than the one you have: go that way. Otherwise play the one you once bought with legimate reason with pleasure and keep your money in the pocket. In the meantime put quite some money aside; you will need that in time !! 

[soundphase]

I just read the title: "check back on April 13 special product announcement".

For me, we always have to wait the final conclusion.

[Jeff Hollande]

Good news on April 13, 2023 ? It is not a Friday !
Cross my fingers.

JH

[pjd]

Well, Yamaha USA's NAMM page is now broken under Chrome...

All instrument categories have a "Latest Releases" button. Only Piano and Percussion have "Coming April 13" buttons.

No reason to raise one's hope. Practice instead. 

Stay sane -- pj

[keynote]

Yes, the header says: CHECK BACK ON APRIL 13, SPECIAL PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT. It seems Yamaha is sending out smoke signals for people to decipher. A special product announcement could mean one of two things. Yamaha already stated it has a new acoustic Grand Piano (or perhaps more than one acoustic model) that will be revealed on April 13th. Plus, Yamaha has also stated it has a new acoustic Drum Kit + Percussion that will be unveiled on April 13th as well. But, perhaps Yamaha still has a few surprises up its sleeve that will be announced at NAMM. I'm hoping it's the latter because the Genos and Montage have been on the market for a very long time compared to Yamaha's standard mode of operation which usually releases new models every three to four years, at most. To be sure there are literally hundreds of thousands of Yamaha keyboardists who are itching to get their hands on new high-end Yamaha keyboards. We know that the COVID pandemic and the supply chain/chip crises probably dealt a huge blow to Yamaha and other keyboard manufacturers but the pandemic is now over and the supply chain crises have gotten somewhat better so the "SPECIAL PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT" on April 13th could be, perhaps, maybe, might,... be a new GENOS &/OR new MONTAGE!!! Btw, there is still a high demand for luxury items including high-end keyboards no doubt, and you know the old saying, right? >> Don't put off for tomorrow (next year, etc.), what you can do today (in this case, at NAMM). 👍 I guess I'm a glass half-full kind of guy.  Less than a week to go. 🤞

All the best, Mike         

[Snicker740]

I think if there is Genos 2, Yamaha will dedicate it to a separate event and attract more attention to Keyboard Workstation players.

[Jeff Hollande]

It looks like most of us are hoping Yamaha will announce their new high end arranger on April 13, 2023 ...

New high arrangers are usually introduced in the month of September by Yamaha ...
I am not too optimistic it might happen ( on April 13 ) this time ... but one never knows. Miracles are still possible.

Keep smiling, JH

[usaraiya]

I suspect that Yamaha will not reveal their heir apparent on April 13th, as there are so many unsold Genos', and it will seal their doom if they do!
Perhaps, it would seem more likely that they will let us know in September so that Peter Bartmans and Martin Harris can demo it during the Yamaha Club event in November.
But any news is welcome, whenever!

Uday
 

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Uday :

If Yamaha are obliged to sell so many unsold Genos arrangers yet ( price ? ), I even wonder if the announcement of the new high end arranger will take place in September 2023.
As far as we informed, Peter Baertmans ( = living in The Netherlands ) has planned his next Dutch dealer's presentantion in December 2023.

First shipments early 2024 ?
Only patience can tell, I guess.

JH

[kiplis]

I suspect that Yamaha will not reveal their heir apparent on April 13th, as there are so many unsold Genos', and it will seal their doom if they do!
Perhaps, it would seem more likely that they will let us know in September so that Peter Bartmans and Martin Harris can demo it during the Yamaha Club event in November.
But any news is welcome, whenever!

Uday
 

So, it sounds like new Yamaha arranger would be available earliest 2024?
For me it sounds like Korg Pa5X (but not Ketron Event)...

-kiplis-

[ugawoga]

If Yamaha were to release a New Genos we would of heard a rumour by now.
It is near impossible to keep thing air tight these days

[soryt]

I have the money waiting for the Genos 2 for 3 years now   

[Jeff Hollande]

If Yamaha were to release a New Genos we would of heard a rumour by now.
It is near impossible to keep thing air tight these days

Hey John :

Let us wait and see what April 13, 2023 might bring us. Hope brings life, they say. 
JH

[ugawoga]

Believe me Jeff . "I want the new GENOS"!!!!!
That now makes Soryt and me waiting with the money.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Guys :

If you both ( you & Soryt ) have saved and reserved approx. USD 5,500 ( ? ) you might be the ( first ? ) proud owners of the Genos' successor before the end of 2023, early 2024, IMHO.
Hopefully earlier than I am expecting. 

I have to wait much, much longer ... at least 2 years before I can spend this hugh amount of money.

I hope my Ty4 and I will survive this period of time.😛

Good luck ! JH

[ton37]

I have the money waiting for the Genos 2 for 3 years now   

Me too  but the 61 ...

[Jeff Hollande]

Most members ( 95 % ) do not expect a 61 note Genos' successor,  a 76 note only.
For me a 61 note would also be very welcome ... wishful thinking ?

JH

[BogdanH]

It's impossible to predict, but... Genos (successor) is seen as an professional keyboard and as such, it's just expected to have 76keys. Not only we can play piano more comfortable with 76 keys, but we also get wider keybed split ranges. Yes, for home use, we can always make octave shift and adapt our playing to 61keys (or add a small midi keyboard). But for a pro, this could be a hassle and quite a limitation. Saying that, I don't expect Genos successor to be available with 61keys. At Yamaha, for those who are happy with 61keys, there's PSR-SX series.

And there's a price thing... Korg Pa5X for example: difference between 61 and 76key version is relative small considering the total price (only 330€ difference). And because we don't buy TOTL keyboard every year, we better don't make compromises which we might regret few years later (because we saved 330€).
But yes, many times we collect every cent for our new keyboard and for 330€ one can buy decent studio monitors.

Just sharing my thoughts,
Bogdan

[ton37]

Yes @BogdanH, I know  We have had this discussion month ago. It is not without reason that I replaced my Genos with the SX900 at the time. So it's a personal choice. I'm still convinced there will be a 61 version too.... maybe I'm missing the point completely, but I'm going to daydream some more. I will be awaked at time X by nightmare or a beautiful dream...

[ugawoga]

76 key is best and you have more room to split the keyboard if you wanted to

[ton37]

For most, 76 is the 'best', but not necessary for me. I have never had any problems with my 61-sx900. And if it ever happens, I'll deal with it another way... or I don't let it happen 

[TiasDad]

Whatever it is, it still won't make me play any better 

[rikkisbears]

Whatever it is, it still won't make me play any better 

Haha, I can relate to that😀.

My arrangers over the years have all been 61 notes. Liked the portability.
Last year went nuts and bought an 88 note .  No regrets, though.

[soryt]

My lower octave of the Genos is like new , never touched ( almost) 

[soundphase]

If you currently look at https://usa.yamaha.com/namm/ , you will see that a special product would be announced today for the electronic keyboard section. Push « latest release » button to see the message

[ugawoga]

Could it Be GGGGGGGG 

[keynote]

If you currently look at https://usa.yamaha.com/namm/ , you will see that a special product would be announced today for the electronic keyboard section. Push « latest release » button to see the message

Yeah, I noticed the same thing this morning, although I didn't see that same added text when I browsed a few days ago. Perhaps I overlooked it until now but it looks promising. I live about an hour and a half drive from the Anaheim Convention Center, where NAMM 2023 will be held. They open the doors at 10:00 am Pacific Daylight Time, which is less than two and half hours from now. I can't attend this year, unfortunately, but we'll soon find out what all the commotion is about on the internet and especially YouTube videos from all the various manufacturers, no doubt. Notice, the keyboard Yamaha displays on their NAMM page is the P-S500 under the electronic keyboard section. Not a high-end product, but a nice keyboard. Will Yamaha bring out the headliner now that we've seen the opening act? We'll soon find out. Notice also, if you will, under Synthesizer we see the new CK series, but there is NO added text below the keyboard to indicate a new synthesizer product reveal at NAMM. Oh, well. Time will tell! It will also be interesting to see what other manufacturers have in store. 👍

All the best, Mike 

[soundphase]

It's a New cvp 900

[ugawoga]

Hardly groundbreaking new tech

[ton37]

As far as I know, the CVP9XX has the basic technology of the Genos , with a larger memory for the piano samples. In other words, can you discover other technologies that indicate that they are not in the current Genos? That could be an indication that there may be further development of the Genos?? (Samples/styles/voices do not count)
Yamaha will make its own platform if it wants to announce something 'big' to the world at time X. 

[AndrewKeyz]

Surprised to see another CVP line so soon. Sure, it's been 4 years but Covid didn't seem to hamper this delay at all if you consider it also took 4 years between the 700 and 800 series. And the 800 series was already based on the Genos engine anyway.

[ugawoga]

X

[DerekA]

Apart from the piano samples, the only 'technoclogy' I can see in the new CVP that's not in the Genos is the built-in bluetooth adaptor.

[Strideplayer]

Here's the list of new Yamaha products that will be showcased at NAMM 2023 at the Anaheim Convention Center in Anaheim, CA on April 13-15, just a few days away. Disappointing for arranger keyboardists and traditional workstation users, since there will be no update to either the Montage or the Genos, unfortunately. PS: The synthesizer that was talked about from Yamaha's March 1st newsletter is the new CK line of keyboards. So I guess the MODX+ addition that was released months ago doesn't count?

https://usa.yamaha.com/namm/ You will probably need to scroll down a bit to see the new products.

All the best, Mike

Another PS: So the next real opportunity for Yamaha to make Waves 2.0 a reality will be in October/November 2023, at the Yamaha Keyboard Club event in the U.K. or NAMM 2024 on January 25-28 also in Anaheim, CA. Oh, well.   

I dreamed that the new Genos was the star of the NAMM show, and that all old Genos's were on sale at half price.

Unfortunately, then I woke up,
Strideplayer 

[keynote]

A lot of well known music instrument/pro audio manufacturers are absent from NAMM 2023. Before COVID-19 hit the scene, NAMM was doing pretty good, although not as good as a decade or more ago when NAMM was really the talk of the town and in fact the entire world, as was Musikmesse, which folded just recently most likely because of the global pandemic, supply chain(s) crises, economic instability, and many manufacturers who are now moving toward a strictly online sales and distribution model. YouTube may end up becoming the new online version of NAMM which would be a huge disappointment for musicians of all stripes who like to roam around looking at and playing all the new gadgets, keyboards, guitars, etc. Plus, there used to be world renowned musicians and singers who would show up and people got to meet and hear them play instruments/sing, and it was a real thrill for everyone involved. If you've noticed, in some of the early videos showing the inside of the Anaheim Convention Center it's a lot less populated and quite frankly a lot of empty space of nothing to speak of. Btw, Yamaha promised a 'Synthesizer' but so far it's a no-show. The CK88/61 are NOT synthesizers, if you get my drift. But there are two more days left of the NAMM trade show, so you never know. A Genos2 is definitely out of the question, since the CVP-900 is the headliner in the keyboard segment, I would imagine. I think the Montage and Genos continue to sell fairly well, so as a matter of principle, if it ain't broke, why fix it? Or, in this case, upgrade it? Yamaha is sitting on piles of cash apparently and if both keyboards continue to sell well and beat expectations we might not see a new Montage or Genos until... [your guess is as good as mine], but possibly not for many moons. In plain English, several years. I hope I'm wrong, btw. PS: If Yammie waits too long, Korg and Ketron and Roland??... could end up being the big winners in Yamaha's slow to market business strategy that was adopted just recently as you may or may not know. You snooze, you lose, as the saying goes. I will try to stay positive, so we'll see what happens at the Yamaha UK Keyboard Club extravaganza event in November and then NAMM 2024 shortly thereafter on January 25-28 once again in Anaheim, California.

All the best, Mike     

[pjd]

Apart from the piano samples, the only 'technology' I can see in the new CVP that's not in the Genos is the built-in bluetooth adaptor.

I basically agree with Derek. A few additions:

With CVP, Yamaha tries to recreate the actual live experience of playing an acoustic instrument. If someone wants the best digital piano experience, doesn't need certain arranger features and has the DoReMe to buy one, I recommend CVP.

Yamaha designs the acoustic audio system and uses binaural sampling to make the player feel like they are seated at, playing and hearing an acoustic piano. The CVPs also have Grand Expression Modeling and Virtual Resonance Modeling (below); both take a lot of additional DSP power which Genos does not have.

If it's any consolation, Genos internal memory is much larger. :-)

I love CVP. Wish I had one -- pj


Binaural Sampling: Records the sound of the piano by using specialized microphones installed in the position of the player's ear so that they capture locational information and other nuances discerned by the human ear.

Grand Expression Modeling: Any variation in the intensity and speed of your touch, and you'll hear a nuanced difference in tone, one that's almost identical to a grand piano.

Virtual Resonance Modeling: Performs realtime reproductions of the resonance created by the strings and body of the instrument. In a grand piano, sound resonates throughout the body of the instrument, producing a rich reverberation that envelops the listener in sound. This phenomena is reproduced perfectly in the Clavinova through Virtual Resonance Modeling (VRM). It calculates the various states of the strings for each of the 88 notes on the keyboard, from one instant to the next, and timing and depth of damper pedals pressed.

[usaraiya]

Well, Yamaha decided to release the flagship Clavinova CVP-909GP costing $21,000 @ the 2023 NAMM show rather than the $6999 Genos 2, which makes good business sense, I presume, as it provides an opportunity for the available Genos' to sell (providing revenue), before the release of the extended due successor to Genos, speculatively, in October, probably showcased by Peter Bartmanns and Martin Harris at the annual Yamaha gathering in November.
The new CVP will also add a revenue stream to the company, which is good.
I expect the new Genos 2 to be out by the 1st Qtr of 2024, and I am looking forward to it!

Uday
 

[keynote]

If anyone is interested, John Fogerty showed up at NAMM 2023 yesterday, which is an encouraging sign that NAMM could make a comeback if more big names start showing up and interacting with the public and if manufacturers don't abandon their customers and potential customers to the wolves by relegating most if not all of their sales and distribution to online only. Yamaha in particular said in their Waves 2.0 outline they wanted to obtain a more personal involvement and closer relationship with their customers, which is commendable. What makes NAMM so special is now the public gets to attend and experience the excitement, new products, and co-mingle with the various employees and personnel from all the different manufacturers and watch live band entertainment, etc., which can be a real boon in the way of additional sales of the various products on display.

All the best, Mike

PS: Day two is about three hours away, so it will be interesting to see what transpires today. Btw, perhaps the CK-61/88 is Yamaha's new 'synthesizer' product, even though it's not really a synthesizer in the true sense of the word.

[pjd]

Yamaha in particular said in their Waves 2.0 outline they wanted to obtain a more personal involvement and closer relationship with their customers, which is commendable.

Hi Mike --

Well, after my stunning endorsement of CVP (where is my kick-back, Yamaha?), I'm going to trash them. 

I have read these statements about "involvement and closer relationship with their customers" in their annual reports -- for years.

I don't know what kind of smoke they have blown up the CEOs pipeline. (I'm trying to be polite.) There is engagement this, and engagement that. Frankly, I haven't seen any change in their public face and presentation. The irony drips from their annual reports...

Where is the direct engagement with PSR Tutorial Forum? After speaking with some Yamaha USA folks, yes, they definitely know about this forum. [And they are nice folks, BTW.]

Yamaha corporate is still an "island" as far as I can observe.

Sorry to break bad on Yamaha, but enough of this empty corporate-speak -- pj

[tyrosrick]

Glad I bought my Genos earlier this year, enjoying all the features/sounds now, than waiting for the Genos 2 no-show at NAMM.

[Divemaster]

Well, Yamaha decided to release the flagship Clavinova CVP-909GP costing $21,000 @ the 2023 NAMM show rather than the $6999 Genos 2, which makes good business sense, I presume, as it provides an opportunity for the available Genos' to sell (providing revenue), before the release of the extended due successor to Genos, speculatively, in October, probably showcased by Peter Bartmanns and Martin Harris at the annual Yamaha gathering in November.
The new CVP will also add a revenue stream to the company, which is good.
I expect the new Genos 2 to be out by the 1st Qtr of 2024, and I am looking forward to it!

Uday
 

Well sure as **** I can't see great big queues of people lining up to part with 21 THOUSAND
Dollars. That's £17,000 pounds sterling uk. In a worldwide recession..... Yeah right!

Ignore the top end keyboard market at your peril Yamaha!

Not for me anyway , but I have already bought another SX700. It will stay in it's box until my current one dies.... or I do... My guess is that they will bring out some horrible half synth, half arranger thing like a posh E473....Nooooo. That won't do at all.

But I could be hugely interested in this new Hammond XK4 keyboard to add to my SX! Looks and sounds awesome!

Step up or step down Yamaha. The world will spin on!


Keith

[mikf]

It’s not unusual to pay much more than this for a half decent grand piano, and that’s more the competition for the top CVP.  Yamaha make vastly more revenue in this market than portable keyboards, and probably much better margins so you could say that the top end keyboard market is exactly where Yamaha are placing their focus.
Mike

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Mike :

Correct : Classical piano's are mostly more expensive.

IMHO most home keyboard players might go for a new high end arranger instead of a CVP 900 serie mainly because of the high new present Clavinova pricing, I guess.

If the new Yamaha high end arranger ( Genos2 ) enducer price will become approx. USD 7,000 ( like some members here seem to be expecting ), even then some people might postpone their original plans or might even decide to go for the competition.
Time will tell.

Best regards, JH

[mikf]

IMHO most home keyboard players might go for a new high end arranger instead of a CVP 900 serie mainly because of the high new present Clavinova pricing, I guess.

I doubt that. CVPs and arrangers customers are different, CVP customers are generally looking for a piano that can also be played a bit like an arranger, not an all singing all dancing arranger that can be played a bit like a piano, which is where Genos sits. I think the DGX is the low cost CVP alternative, but they could drop to a 905, or find a good used 600 series, if price is the issue.
Not only are acoustic pianos more expensive, but Yamaha sells way more of them. You might not be able to buy the stool for a Yamaha Bosendorfer for the price of a good arranger.  If you were Yamaha top management which market would be dearest to your heart?

Mike

[BogdanH]

...
Not only are acoustic pianos more expensive, but Yamaha sells way more of them...

-I've been searching for that info, but found nothing.

And here my thoughts and guesses...
Yamaha's "standard" Classical pianos prices start at about 35000€ (CFX-es aren't sold in mass, I guess). That is, one Classical piano is the same price as: 1xGenos(=5000€) + 5xSX900(=11000€) + 8xSX700(=11000€) + Others (=8000€). Now we might think "selling one Classical piano is the same money as a bunch of keyboards.. so why even bother with keyboards?".
It probably depends from country to country, but I still believe that it's easier to sell a "bunch of keyboards of various types", than that's the case with Classical pianos. I mean, every smallish city has some musical instruments store with keyboards on display and on stock. It's not that easy to find a store with Classical pianos, though.

And then there's another thing. Making a Classical piano is very labor intensive. I've seen "Visit at Yamaha factory" documentary and all pianos are in majority hand made. Additionally, very big area is needed for storing wood, painting, assembling, testing and storing finished products. What I'm saying is, making piano costs a lot of money.
Keyboards on the other hand, are mass products: once production is started, making a keyboard is very cheap (especially if assembled in 3rd country). And so in my opinion, percentage profit is much bigger than that's the case with Classical piano production.
Yes, being 10-times more expensive, amount of money (total income) is much bigger for Classical pianos -but so are the costs.

-as said, just my thoughts.
Bogdan

[Jeff Hollande]

Mike :

In a multinational company like Yamaha all departements need to be individual profit centres.
They have many of these different departements and all of them together make the company like it is today.
In fact it is a chain of links.
All of them are individually responsible for Yamaha's total welfare. IMHO.

It is up to the top management to control the forecast, turnover, costs and profit of the entire company,  24/7, IMHO.

JH