Topic: Hello am looking for praise and worship video songs of the Genos

[mikf]

I think it might also be perception, not just price. The Genos appears like a fancy computer with sound, and that may not sit well.
You seem very enthused by the Genos 'sound' but having heard both first hand I would just describe both as very impressive, with the Genos having a very slight edge, not one miles better than the other.
On your other question, being well informed about both the keyboards and the use in a church, I would probably choose the DGX, especially for the purpose you intend, - not having to be portable, not for fancy recording of EDM or other genres. I just would not need or want a Genos, and the keyboard would feel awful to me.
But suppose I was playing piano or organ in the church, with no background in playing arrangers, and you came to me cold with a Genos, I would probably chase you. A pro player, and you want me to mess with something that seems more about operating than playing.  You might persuade me to try a DGX though, because it looks and plays like a piano. Thats the truth.
 
BTW, I never  bend notes with the joystick. When I do pitch bend, I use the foot pedal. And honestly, bending notes is more of a gimmick than a necessity to a church player. 
Mike

[pjd]

Hi --

I watched the video of April 16rd's service via Greg's link (Tri-County Bible Church, Pennsylvania):

https://www.youtube.com/live/Z9oyvByWDnY

70 people in attendance and 11 people on-line.

There is an acoustic piano in the choir area to the left of the altar and several instruments in the music ministry area to the right of the altar. There is a Korg (!) keyboard in the music ministry area -- couldn't tell what model. So, there is at least some experience with a digital keyboard instrument. The first hymns were accompanied by the Korg and a guitar.

I guess two questions for Greg is "Who does the church want to bring back to the fold? Who do they want to attract?" The congregation skews older. (Not meant as an offense, because I play for a skewed congregation myself.) If the goal is to bring in more youth, than there are other considerations like repertoire. Our church has a separate youth-targeted service even though our own group tries to go upbeat and somewhat contemporary.

I get the need for rhythm even though I have my own love-hate relationship with drums and drummers in church music. :-) I also understand how the music director might prefer to play with a live drummer... Recruiting? Compensation?

Well, there's some observations and thoughts -- none technological. :-)

It was hard to recover from the pandemic especially with volunteer musicians. It's taken more than a year.

All the best -- pj

[myzone1958]

 
   PJD that's just it they are not trying to bring anything back to the church it's me that was trying to point out to them that we need music that is going to appeal to the younger generation to draw them in. As the older people die off there will be no one to replace them. I recommended the Genos or even one of the arrangers would do a lot better then what I hear now giving it a more dramatic presentation but the director insist he wants live people to participate but what he is not getting is how long is he willing to wait for these people to come. I was giving them a quick fix to this problem but they don't see anything as a problem and are happy the way it is going. The other problem there is the Pastor is pushing 90 and has bad knees , He is going blind in the one eye and can not read at the moment. I suggested to one of the deacons that he needs to step down. As of now a younger man has taken over in the church with a pastoral degree and have more energy. I decided to continue going there since he stepped in . He is excellent ! i Just got to look past the music . I wish the pastor who is 90 good health but I hope he decides to let the younger guy take over the pastoring. Again I don't say this out of respect for older people but in order to attract the younger generation they do need a younger lively speaker. I look at things from the long haul but they look at things from the here and now.       

[pjd]

Hi Greg --

So much depends upon the pastor. Can't say that enough.   

Targeted youth ministry seems to work best. It's unfortunate that years and ill-health take away so much energy -- don't I know it! 

I'm glad to hear that another minister is helping out.

All the best -- pj

[Dave Nuttall]

Hi Greg (and others who have posted in this thread).

I am an active volunteer hymn/gospel singer and keyboard musician.   I have an active YouTube site with some 2,500 subscribers who mostly like my renditions of traditional hymns and southern/country gospel, spanning about the past 9 years.   The site has around 250 songs that I've created, first on a PSR-S910 and more recently with a Genos.   The quality of the "keyboard operator" varies (hopefully improves over time), but the quality of the SOUND is hard to differentiate between the two keyboards.

I began keyboard lessons in 1952 and read/play by-note-or-by-ear, but I would be VERY nervous about playing a Genos or any other arranger/workstation as the accompaniment for services such as T-C Bible Church.   Basic reason(s) follow:

1.  It takes a substantial amount of TIME to find/match STYLES for keyboards to accompany traditional hymns, southern/country gospel, or contemporary "P&W".   But a skilled PIANO player can slide between any of the genres without the risk of not matching the tempo or appropriate instrument combination.   

2.  If you take almost any modern hymnal or praise & worship playlist, there will be MANY hymns/songs for which there is NO appropriate style.   And picking a style that can make a religious song sound SECULAR will produce unmerciful "grief" from pastors, deacons and knowledgeable congregants.

3.  Arranger/workstation advocates might suggest that where satisfactory styles don't exist, a solution can come from "rolling your own"....but avoid being enticed by that idea.   It is a LOT harder than it looks especially when the music doesn't invariably have a well known recording to mimic.  And even if there is a reliable, well-known recording to mimic, one must be VERY SKILLED using a wide array of instruments.   I personally know the piano and trumpet but know NOTHING of drums, electric guitars and Classical orchestral instruments.  Now if we could just get Bill Gaither and Daywind Studios to create arranger/workstation STYLES that mimic their recordings, then the contemporary P&W artists/studios might follow and we wouldn't have this dilemma with regard to arranger/workstations in small churches.   Without appropriate styles, arranger/workstations are little more than somewhat expensive digital pianos.   And also the Genos is "OK" as a piano, as a piano player, I much prefer ANY decent acoustic piano, and especially my Baldwin SF-10!   And really good "stage" pianos (Yamaha, etc) can be found for equal or less $$$ than the Genos.

On the positive side, I would be delighted and honored to share my collected insights/ideas/styles/registrations on hymns and gospel music.   When I have offered here in the past, there hasn't been much interest.  I have been retired for nearly 20 years, and usually spend a part of every day "doing something related to Christian music", in between assignments from my spouse of 50+ years.

My profile has my email if you wish to collaborate privately.
Dave
San Antonio, TX 

[keynote]

Hi Greg (and others who have posted in this thread).

   Now if we could just get Bill Gaither and Daywind Studios to create arranger/workstation STYLES that mimic their recordings, then the contemporary P&W artists/studios might follow and we wouldn't have this dilemma with regard to arranger/workstations in small churches.   Without appropriate styles, arranger/workstations are little more than somewhat expensive digital pianos.   And also the Genos is "OK" as a piano, as a piano player, I much prefer ANY decent acoustic piano, and especially my Baldwin SF-10!   And really good "stage" pianos (Yamaha, etc) can be found for equal or less $$$ than the Genos.

Dave
San Antonio, TX

Hi Dave. Or better yet, Yamaha has a significant footprint in the Christian/Gospel segment, so it would be a shoo-in for Yammie to produce quality styles for that genre of music which in my opinion would also boost sales of their higher-end arranger keyboards. Because as we know a vast number of Christians are also musicians and keyboardists and many of them of course buy Yamaha arranger keyboards.  Many smaller churches don't have the resources for a live worship band which would include a lot of music gear, but since an arranger is in effect a one-man-band (OMB) it could solve many churches desire for a live band service via an arranger keyboard player with a Genos, etc., if they had access to high quality styles directly suited for both CCM & Hymnal songs. I think Yamaha would sell a boat load of those type of styles which would be another revenue booster for Yammie and a great benefit for churches and Yamaha arranger keyboardists who would like to fill that void.

All the best, Mike 

[Dave Nuttall]

Hi Dave. Or better yet, Yamaha has a significant footprint in the Christian/Gospel segment, so it would be a shoo-in for Yammie to produce quality styles for that genre of music which in my opinion would also boost sales of their higher-end arranger keyboards. Because as we know a vast number of Christians are also musicians and keyboardists and many of them of course buy Yamaha arranger keyboards.  Many smaller churches don't have the resources for a live worship band which would include a lot of music gear, but since an arranger is in effect a one-man-band (OMB) it could solve many churches desire for a live band service via an arranger keyboard player with a Genos, etc., if they had access to high quality styles directly suited for both CCM & Hymnal songs. I think Yamaha would sell a boat load of those type of styles which would be another revenue booster for Yammie and a great benefit for churches and Yamaha arranger keyboardists who would like to fill that void.

All the best, Mike

Yamaha does seem to have a reasonable share of the church market but I suspect from Yamaha's perch it is far from enticing compared to secular markets.   It is sad and unfortunate but reality.   I'm guessing that IF styles were going to appear, they would first and foremost emulate the contemporary Christian music (CCM) genre which is closer to secular genres/styles compared with what is likely the preferred sound at the T-C Bible Church (well blended voices/instruments and diminished drums/guitars).   It can be done on many hymns/songs but not without limits/shortfalls/disappointments.

Since the church rejected the idea, it's kinda moot with regard to Greg's initiative.

[mikf]

There is also a very practical reason to avoid auto accompaniment type instruments for church music.
 It is true that some very contemporary churches present the music like a well rehearsed, performed concert. But most more traditional churches still present the music as a way to lead the full congregation in participation. Instruments with fixed electronic tempo might be a liability in those situations.
 I know that when I played in church, even with a choir leading, I was constantly aware of ‘congregation lag” and making subtle timing adjustments.
In fact the arranger is generally not an instrument I would select for any kind of community singing situation.
Mike

[pjd]

I know that when I played in church, even with a choir leading, I was constantly aware of ‘congregation lag” and making subtle timing adjustments.

Had to chuckle. I loved the scene in "Amadeus" when Mozart rehearses the singers -- and makes wisecracks like "Late!"

Every Sunday, I fight the urge to bark out "Late!" to the congregation. 

Amen, Mike, amen -- pj