Topic: load sx900 styles on sx700/sx600; do they sound the same?have issues?

[icatalin42]

Hello everyone,
Do the sx900 styles loaded on sx700 have issues?they sound the same? What about on sx600? Do the 3 right layer voices matter vs sx600' when playing ots of the sx900?

Thank you.

[Divemaster]

I have loaded all the SX900 voices onto my SX700. In most cases they sound fine. However you need to bear in mind that some of the styles and voices on both keyboards are different or even not available on the other keyboard, so there will be limitations.

As far as the SX600 goes, I don't know. It was the touchscreen, and other features that made me choose the SX700. For my own home use, the SX and Genos are, IMHO more geared to performing players and have features that I would probably never use.

[BogdanH]

I can confirm what Divemaster said about SX900 styles on SX700.. and the same applies for SX600. In short, styles are interchangeable between (recent) Yamaha arrangers. But because not all keyboards have the same voices built-in, it can (and many times does) happen, that style won't sound as on dedicated keyboard. This can usually be successfully adapted by "revoicing" the style.

No, number of RH voices in OTS (3 vs 2) doesn't really matter much. That is, style which contains three right hand voices will still work on SX600 -except 3rd voice isn't available. In most cases, one or two RH voices are more than enough anyway (depends on music you play).

Bogdan

[icatalin42]

Wow. Thank you all for the quick replies. I used to own a tyros2, i sold it, now i intend to buy an sx600 or sx700. I intend to play few songs, so i use it as a beginner,intermediate, but i still want it to sound good. Im interested especially on synthpopduo style because i play a few modern talking songs which im very fond of (brother louie, with a little love, heaven will know, you're my heart, chery chery lady)  but this style i know existed on tyros5 and now it is on sx900. I was wondering if for my beginner level the sx600 is enough, thats why i asked because i still want styles and voices to sound great.

Another question, this time off-topic, is if i can somehow connect the sx600/sx700 to a computer which has an audio interface (audient id4) and a m-audio midi keyboard on usb so on my monitor speakers i can hear both the yamaha and the vsti played by m-audio. This way i can add more voices to the mix, especially for some songs i play (oxygene4, aurora nova, vanghelis) keeping in the same time the style advantage of yamaha because using a daw/vsti i dont know if i can to play styles, only midi tracks to play along but it is not the same thing since playing using a style gives me more control, more freedom. I still like the freedom of vsti but without the backing style accompaniament of an arranger, not that good.
@BogdanH, i heard about revoicing a style but maybe this is hard, im a beginner, dont know if i can be up to this task (i read here on the forum that there is an option built in the sx600 to change style parameters voices drums, style creator i guess it was the name)

[BogdanH]

... now i intend to buy an sx600 or sx700. I intend to play few songs, so i use it as a beginner,intermediate, but i still want it to sound good....

As for the sound, I'm sure SX600 to be quite good. I had PSR-S670 (SX600 predecessor) and I was happy with how it sounded. Even further, I think SX600 is an excellent choice to enter into arranger keyboard world -I mean, it's a full featured arranger.
But the thing is, we don't buy keyboard every year (hopefully) and so keep in mind, that SX600 has limitations, that might be important. For example, built-in memory is very small, which can be quite problematic. That is, if you can afford, then go for SX700.

About revoicing.. it's a quite simple process once you know what to look for. I really wouldn't worry about this at this point.

Bogdan

[overover]

... I used to own a tyros2, i sold it, now i intend to buy an sx600 or sx700. ...

Hi icatalin42,

If your budget allows, I strongly recommend you to go for a SX700 (or SX900). Overall, the SX600 cannot be compared to the other two SX models. For example, it has no touchscreen and is extremely awkward to use. In my opinion, the SX600 would definitely be a step backwards from a Tyros2.


Best regards,

[icatalin42]

Thank you (again) to all that replied. I've always wanted a tyros5 so i guess i better wait a little longer (althouth the price difference is material between the two sx) and follow Overover's advice and also Bogdan's in the way i dont have budget to change them often so i better aim higher (not sx900 level since i dont have the budget for but at least a step forward from tyros2) up to sx700 level (this way maybe sx900 styles sound more appropiate).

[Divemaster]

My advice would be to go for the SX700. Basically, why buy old technology?
The SX series are superb arrangers without all the weight, separate speakers and age of the Tyros.
I loved my Tyros, they have a "look" about them and play well, but they are now OLD.. and with age comes decay and unreliability.
The reason I chose the SX700 over the SX900 wasn't cost for me, it was because there are features on the SX900 that in my view as a home player are more suited to those who perform with them or are musically competent enough to get the best from them. Genos for the same reasons.

The SX700 with it's touch screen is just fabulous value for the money, and very satisfying to play.
Spend wisely 

[icatalin42]

Everyone everywhere reccomended sx700 over sx600 and sx900 for the home player. I will go with the vibe, im saving already. I dont want many pro features, i just need awesome styles and voices.

[Dupe]

I have had my SX700 for a few months know, and very satisfied with its performance and features. My local music store were able to give an excellent demonstration of the various voices and styles etc.  It also goes without saying, this forum has been extremely helpful in offering advice when needed.

[icatalin42]

One issues still remains: how to be able to output the sound from both sx700 and vsti from the same audio interface?maybe my audient id4 is not enough. Maybe i need an audio interface which has also a stereo line input. What i mean is that when playing a style, i want to be able to use internal sx700 voices (ots/style variations) but also vsti voices. Audio interface output is monitor speakers or headphones (m50x or bt770 80ohm).

[overover]

One issues still remains: how to be able to output the sound from both sx700 and vsti from the same audio interface?maybe my audient id4 is not enough. Maybe i need an audio interface which has also a stereo line input. What i mean is that when playing a style, i want to be able to use internal sx700 voices (ots/style variations) but also vsti voices. Audio interface output is monitor speakers or headphones (m50x or bt770 80ohm).

Hi icatalin42,

If you don't want to record the output signal of the keyboard (e.g. SX700) on the computer, but only want to play it back together with the output signal of your Audient id4 audio interface via monitor speakers, you could use a small external mixer with which you can combine these two stereo signals. Then connect your (active) speakers to the mixer's stereo output.

Another option would be to connect the output of the audio interface to the AUX IN jack of the keyboard. Then you can listen to everything via the keyboard speakers or headphones / active speakers connected to the keyboard.

The Audient id4 is not well suited for connecting a stereo keyboard, as it only has a combined mono mic/line input and an additional Hi-Z mono instrument input (intended for guitar/bass with passive pickups).

If you want to make recordings from the keyboard on the computer, I recommend using an audio interface that has two separate line inputs to feed in the stereo signal from the keyboard in addition to a microphone input

Please also consider that you need a very fast computer to achieve such a low latency (reaction time) that the audio signal from the keyboard digitized by the audio interface can be played in real time.

By the way, many audio interfaces have a "Direct Monitor" option to monitor the input signal with virtually no latency during recording. Here, however, a tone control (EQ) may be missing.


Best regards,
Chris

[icatalin42]

Wow! Thanks alot Chris, golden advice, i particularly liked this section "Another option would be to connect the output of the audio interface to the AUX IN jack of the keyboard. Then you can listen to everything via the keyboard speakers or headphones / active speakers connected to the keyboard". I love this way since i for the moment only want to play along the style i choose on the sx700 using keyboard (style embedded) voices and also vsti. this way i can broaden the keyboard sounds. And yes,using keyboard's output (headphones or external speakers - i have a pair of edifier r2730 which are not really neutral speakers, a bit high curve on bass but they do the job well, they did on tyros 2). My pc handle vsti very well so i was told (ryzen9, ssd, rtx3070, 32gb ram).
"you could use a small external mixer with which you can combine these two stereo signals" - what price/quality mixer you reccomend? Not a bad idea also using a mixer.

[Keyboard Master]

Hi there to my knowlege it is whatever you prefer and what you can afford if you want a used psr sx900 for examle here's one at guitar center for the same price asa new sx700 https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Yamaha/Psrsx900-Keyboard-Workstation.gc?cntry=us&source=4WWRWXGP&gclid=CjwKCAiAjPyfBhBMEiwAB2CCIg8K8HRAtHHTHtbgMw9PZUll1_yqmoJtxG_SfwSAAfHsRPWjbOOO9RoCOQcQAvD_BwE

[overover]

Wow! Thanks alot Chris, golden advice, i particularly liked this section "Another option would be to connect the output of the audio interface to the AUX IN jack of the keyboard. Then you can listen to everything via the keyboard speakers or headphones / active speakers connected to the keyboard". I love this way since i for the moment only want to play along the style i choose on the sx700 using keyboard (style embedded) voices and also vsti. this way i can broaden the keyboard sounds. And yes,using keyboard's output (headphones or external speakers - i have a pair of edifier r2730 which are not really neutral speakers, a bit high curve on bass but they do the job well, they did on tyros 2). My pc handle vsti very well so i was told (ryzen9, ssd, rtx3070, 32gb ram).
"you could use a small external mixer with which you can combine these two stereo signals" - what price/quality mixer you reccomend? Not a bad idea also using a mixer.

Hi icatalin42,

thanks for you kind and detailed feedback!

If you're buying a small analog mixer, I recommend not buying it too small. A few more inputs/channels are always good. Also, I would go with a well-known, high-quality brand like Yamaha, Soundcraft, Allen & Heath, etc.

I recommend you the Yamaha MG10:
>>> https://www.thomann.de/gb/yamaha_mg10.htm


Best regards,
Chris

[BogdanH]

If you're buying a small analog mixer, I recommend not buying it too small. A few more inputs/channels are always good....

Fully agree - it happens too often that we need to buy another mixer few years later.

Chris made a good recommendation with Yamaha MG10. But don't forget: it's pure analog mixer -means, it has no audio interface built in. In that sense, it's perfect for live performance.

I personally prefer "all-in-one" solutions where possible. Mainly to avoid additional cabling, but also to maybe save money in future. For that reason, I would choose either Yamaha AG06 or Focusrite 8i6. Both have audio interface, two stereo and two microphone inputs (if that's enough for you) -however, usage between these two, is totally different.
In short, don't buy too fast.. it can happen you will buy twice.

Bogdan

[icatalin42]

Thank you for the reccomendations including KeyboardMaster for the sh offer. Now i know what is the difference between a mixer and an audio interface, definatelly in handy to have both in the same device. Bogdan, i had the choose between Focusrite solo mk (latest) and audient id4 and i chosed id4 simply because it was told me (before reading on their website) they have also powerful headphones amps and later on, i discovered it is indeed true,they boost alot of power on my m50x.
Today i had the opprotunity to test sx600 and i was very impressed by the sound quality. Indeed,the built in speakers although enough punchy, i guess external speakers are more appropiate, if u wanna feel the sound of old tyros keyboards. But,even so the sounds and styles impressed me. Unfortunately,i wasnt smart enough to go to the showroom with the synthpopduo style on a usb drive in my pocket but nevertheless, it did impress me. The touch screen is a minus definatelly but not that much. The sounds and styles are very good. I wonder if for my begginer/intermediate level i really need something like a sx700 simply because sx600 is pretty amazing and its way cheaper than its older brother.(i tried mostly synths and pads and are awesome) . Some voices are not at the tyros level definatelly like the bright pad or some guitars (dont know,maybe it was because of the fact that it wasnt connected to external speakers or maybe i it was my impression...who knows).  Still, i dont know what to do. I buy sx600 mainly for the styles and variations because using a mixer or aux in (as Chris pointed out) i can add to the mix various great voices from my vsti which are awesome (some of them).

[BogdanH]

Most important is, that you are aware of SX600 "weaknesses" and if you accept them, then I see no reason for you to be disappointed later. I can also understand, that you're probably getting impatient (been there, done that).. and so, as I said in my first post here, SX600 is a nice keyboard.. it's hard not to like it.

I have SX700 and so, being a bit spoiled, I only see SX600 limitations. Touch screen for example.. it's similar as with the cars, where many say "once automatic gear, always automatic gear" -but if you never drove an automatic, then you miss nothing by having good old manual shifter 

Bogdan

[wibem]

I own a SX600 now, had a SX900 before. So, I know both keyboards quite well. And  I can recommend the SX600 against the higher priced modells. The sounds and styles are quite equal and the SX 600 has some big advantages , which I really like. At first it has an inbuild audio interface, which the other modells don't have.  IMO a big plus. Second plus:  the buttons are made of hard plastic and not of rubber like on SX700/900. Third: the start time on the SX600 is very short , about 8 secs. In comparison: on the SX 900 it's about 40 sec.  I like to have a keyboard, which starts immediately. I don't miss the touchscreen on the SX600. The display on this keyboard is small, but very sharp and ciear.  Touchscreens are not generally faster to use and  they are soon covered with fingerprints, what I don't like. Of course the higher priced modells have some advantages, but for me the SX 600 is the best choice.

[mixermixer]

I admit the touchscreen is slow to respond at times on my SX900 but it is way better to operate compared to the four direction arrows on the SX600 which is the same design as the S670. Not even having the side buttons on the screen from the previous S series is a step backwards IMO. Having to select options/sounds on the fly would be a hassle I can imagine...

[icatalin42]

I own a SX600 now, had a SX900 before. So, I know both keyboards quite well. And  I can recommend the SX600 against the higher priced modells. The sounds and styles are quite equal and the SX 600 has some big advantages , which I really like. At first it has an inbuild audio interface, which the other modells don't have.  IMO a big plus. Second plus:  the buttons are made of hard plastic and not of rubber like on SX700/900. Third: the start time on the SX600 is very short , about 8 secs. In comparison: on the SX 900 it's about 40 sec.  I like to have a keyboard, which starts immediately. I don't miss the touchscreen on the SX600. The display on this keyboard is small, but very sharp and ciear.  Touchscreens are not generally faster to use and  they are soon covered with fingerprints, what I don't like. Of course the higher priced modells have some advantages, but for me the SX 600 is the best choice.

Wow. This is like more weighs on the sx600 balance side. I dont need a touchscreen, all i want is the voices and styles to sound really good,maybe not at sx900/genos level but good enough. Why didnt they include the synthpopduo style on sx700 and sx600? Ive seen it is exclusive to sx900.

[Keyboard Master]

Wow. This is like more weighs on the sx600 balance side. I dont need a touchscreen, all i want is the voices and styles to sound really good,maybe not at sx900/genos level but good enough. Why didnt they include the synthpopduo style on sx700 and sx600? Ive seen it is exclusive to sx900.

Oh if yo dont need a touvh screen another option is to get a used psr s770 or s970 just a thought.

[DrakeM]

The "synthpopduo" style is available for any keyboard to use. It is in style SFF2 form.

It works in my PSR-S950 keyboard with tweaking the drum patterns (deleting a few notations using the Style Creator).

Get it here:
https://www.psrtutorial.com/styles/PSR-SX900%20Styles/Entertainer.zip

Any style will work in any keyboard since the Tyros 3.

Regards
Drake
 

[icatalin42]

The odds favor the sx700 this time. Ive talked to a friend and he said i should take into account the expansion memory too and he sent me a link to a site, they make great expansions, and in this regard, sx600 is quite limited he said. I looked on yamaha website and i see sx600 has a limit of 100mb, sx700 400mb and sx900 1gb.

[blackpool]

Re SX700 ....I have gone back in ownership .....cut short ....Had Tyros for years then invested in a Genos... Great, but too big and did not need all the spec for my limited use, so went down to an SX900 and now have a 700 ....which provides ALL I need and want.

I used a 600 at my holiday home, and as said earlier and i FULLY agree ....it is just not in the same league!
No touch screen, difficult to get around and I think the key action is not as good

I think the 700 is the best value mid range board ever produced by Yamaha ....It has my vote for a 'plug and play'
and the price point difference V the 900 is huge ....yet oddly the gap between the 6 and 700 is just so close !!

Ok ...No looper and revo drums, but I find the styles of 900 work fine and others I import ...although my dealer says the 900 styles are better on the 900 than the 700 ....?  I maybe think that's a sales tactic for the price difference....but i'm no pro ! .....It would be interesting to get to know if this is in fact true.

[icatalin42]

I was wondering, sorry in advance for the off topic issue, what would be the most compatible and easy chords both for major and minor scale songs if someone is not good at chords (left hand)? I mean, if i wanna play a song, what basic (limited) chords should i play just to be able to get a resonable accompaniament rhythm? For exemple, one song which i like, Georgia on my mind (slow version) what are the basic few chords i can use? I want to limit chord usage to basic when playing.

[travlin-easy]

Here's the chords for Georgia On My Mind: https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/tab/ray-charles/georgia-on-my-mind-chords-1164380

Good luck,

Gary

[DrakeM]

Here are my bare bone chords as I could make it using the single chord method with my S950 keyboard:

https://app.box.com/s/bug54snd8jzud4jgrjnebn2qwkpmmr8f

Regards
Drake

[blackpool]

Play in a simple register to make it easy and your done!

If you like a 'particular' key ....simply learn the chords which pop up in that key and again your done

f you play only in a just couple of keys, there is little need to learn many, if any any other chords at all.

It is simple to transpose 'on board' for it to sound different. that is why the spec. is there.

Don't make it difficult ....Yamaha are trying to make it as easy as they can for us.

Enjoy

[icatalin42]

Thanx everyone for helping me with the chords issues.
"If you like a 'particular' key ....simply learn the chords which pop up in that key and again your done" thats a good advice, tx blackpool, i'll try to follow it.

[icatalin42]

Thats it. My budget didnt allow me a sx700 and i didnt want to wait anymore (i hate waiting) so i bought an sx600, see the pics below (that's why the new thread asking you kindly for sx900 modified styles.the packaging was quite bad (i wonder if it is indeed new , my first thought was it was resealed although i bought it new).

Thank you guys again,
Kat

[Keyboard Master]

Very cool Nice buy. i agree with your decetion. Get what you can. i still wish you lots of fun with your purchase. and if you ever want a higher model you can trade up in the future when buget allows.

[icatalin42]

It sounds fantastic. First impressions:
-The voices list and quality are pretty similar to my former tyros2, but the build quality is not similar which is understandable because tyros2 was flagship.
- i hate touch response; when i turned it on the first time, i had the feeling the voices dont play or are not heard or not loud enough; luckily it was due to the touch response, i played a bit with the settings and set it to soft or off in the end so now i can play like i used to;
- the screen and the controls are very easy to operate: although not touch screen, it resolution is awesome, is pretty neat like this and the controls with the pads and big wheel knob are very easy;
- i love the overall build, doesnt feel like a tyros2 premium but doesnt feel cheap either, is still large keyboard and the plastic of the knobs and style variations, voices,etc everything is ok
- one issue which makes me wonder and i need your help/views: i notice that 2 keys (keys A from the last 2 octaves on the right,especially from the one from the last octave are uneven/unleveled, i mean comparing to the other keys  those two are a bit higher,not much but the last one is obvious ,see the picture; is it bad? Is it ok? Is it normal? The same with some wide alike spacing between keys (take a look on the left side) but i guess this is normal
- quality from its speakers is ok, it is not the same obviously with my former 2.1 system with sub from tyros2, but i can always hook my external edifiers speakers to it if i want to;
Overall i like it very much, not a premium build quality but a premium sound quality, which in the end was what i was looking for.

[BogdanH]

hi icatalin24,
I'm glad to hear you're in general happy with SX600. About keys not in level... I don't know how keys are constructed in SX600, so no advice from me in this regard. If it doesn't really disturb you in playing, then I would leave that as it is -at least for now. To eventually solve the problem, you'd need to open keyboard and check if keys are properly seated and screws (that hold keys in place) tight enough.
Wish you a lot of fun

Bogdan

[icatalin42]

hi icatalin24,
I'm glad to hear you're in general happy with SX600. About keys not in level... I don't know how keys are constructed in SX600, so no advice from me in this regard. If it doesn't really disturb you in playing, then I would leave that as it is -at least for now. To eventually solve the problem, you'd need to open keyboard and check if keys are properly seated and screws (that hold keys in place) tight enough.
Wish you a lot of fun

Bogdan

Thank you (multam fain). One key (upper octave last A key) is a bit higher/taller than the rest as we can see in the pics i uploaded but it sounds ok, there is no delay or something. Lets hope the keyboard is safe and sound. It sounds wonderful, i cant believe it sounds so good at such a budget price. I remember i paid around 1.500$-1.800$ back then to get myself an used tyros2. Tech advance fast and in music too, and Yamaha keeps the pace.

[Divemaster]

Hi icatalin24

Glad to hear that you have finally decided to buy and own one of the great PSR-SX series.
https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/Smileys/default/smiley.gif

I wish you Happy playing, and a lot of enjoyment from it. 

Keith

[icatalin42]

I havent brought it home yet, i have to settle things with my wife first  to negociate for another device, another "expense". Women! Cant live with them and cant live without them. They simply dont understand our needs.  Their priorities lies mainly with house arrangements and their needs. Sx600 is still boxed at the office.

[BogdanH]

I havent brought it home yet, i have to settle things with my wife first  to negociate ...
...Sx600 is still boxed at the office.

Well, you have my sympathy 

[komalthecoolk]

I have loaded all the SX900 voices onto my SX700. In most cases they sound fine. However you need to bear in mind that some of the styles and voices on both keyboards are different or even not available on the other keyboard, so there will be limitations.

As far as the SX600 goes, I don't know. It was the touchscreen, and other features that made me choose the SX700. For my own home use, the SX and Genos are, IMHO more geared to performing players and have features that I would probably never use.

Can you tell me how does one do that? I'm a beginner keyboard player, so is my sister and we both decided to invest our money in SX700 as our first Keyboard. So far we're not disappointed but if we're getting the SX900 voices in this, then it's an added bonus!

[icatalin42]

Can you tell me how does one do that? I'm a beginner keyboard player, so is my sister and we both decided to invest our money in SX700 as our first Keyboard. So far we're not disappointed but if we're getting the SX900 voices in this, then it's an added bonus!

I wanted the same. Sadly, it seems you cant import preset voices, see this post:
https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,65700.0.html

[BogdanH]

I have loaded all the SX900 voices onto my SX700. In most cases they sound fine. However you need to bear in mind that some of the styles and voices on both keyboards are different or even not available on the other keyboard, so there will be limitations....

Can you tell me how does one do that? I'm a beginner keyboard player, so is my sister and we both decided to invest our money in SX700 as our first Keyboard. So far we're not disappointed but if we're getting the SX900 voices in this, then it's an added bonus!

It's impossible to import voices from one keyboard into another.
Saving voice (*.vce) file on one keyboard and then loading that file in another keyboard, is not copying voice. *.vce file only contains settings for particular voice and if that voice is not present on target keyboard, then the file is useless.

Bogdan