Author Topic: New Yamaha Montage  (Read 4037 times)

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Offline Benis67

New Yamaha Montage
« on: February 06, 2023, 09:28:08 AM »
There are rumors confirmed by several sources that the announcement of a new Montage is imminent, 7 years after its marketing: a suffix will be used for the name similar to what was done with MOTIF (the possibilities are the Classic +, Plus , ES, XS, XF,..).
For obvious reasons it is not known what the new features will be and therefore it is possible to make only hypotheses.
The first thing that will interest you is whether there will be a parallel firmware update to the current Montage (compatibly with the differences) or if, on the contrary, the latest version will remain 3.51, perhaps updated for some bugfixes or small changes.
Regarding the news, it is possible to make only hypotheses.
The first possibility is the inclusion of the AN-X synthesis engine whose trademark was recently registered (June 2022). As repeatedly said, to date it is not known whether the current SWF70 chips present in Montage are able to generate sounds with different synthesis from AWM2 and FM-X, and the eventuality of the AN-X synthesis generated by a new chip , would cut out the current Montage.
The second possibility is that a path similar to that followed with MOTIF is followed: a maintenance of the synthesis, perhaps with small changes, and an increase in polyphony (AWM2 128->256 and/or Flash memory dedicated to user/presets multisamples). In this case, without upsetting anything, Yamaha could follow the path followed with the Genos arrangers, where the second SWP70 chip (slave) which in the Montage does not have Flash, could have 4 GigaBytes of flash dedicated to User samples and/or new multisamples presets (see for example the excellent Bosendorfer already available as an additional library). We will see.

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2023, 05:58:26 AM »
That is good to hear. Yes Since the Montage is been out for a while now it is time for a new model to replace it. I guess Montage ES
 

Offline Joe H

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2023, 11:32:43 PM »
I think a Analog synth instead of a FM synth is a better choice.  Maybe the new Montage will have both.  They retired the old AN and DX plug-in cards but Yamaha is very good at recycling it's technology.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline TLN41

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2023, 05:47:11 AM »

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2023, 09:46:23 PM »
I watched the Video And it was very Interesting. And seeing that yamaha filed a trademark that means Something is Coming.  ;D
 

Offline Stubby

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2023, 02:42:22 AM »
TLN41, I agree.  Thanks for posting.  His insights are reasonable and make sense to me, at least.
 

Offline TLN41

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2023, 11:27:25 PM »
Well absolutely NOTHING at NAMM on any replacement Montage. Most retailers are out of stock.

MODX was also out of stock right before the MODX plus was introduced.

Montage was introduced in January 2016 for NAMM. MODX August 2018. MODX plus August 2022. Genos August 2017. Last firmware update for Montage was 2/2021.

So maybe August 2023 for new Montage then Genos 2 2024?
 

Offline EB5AGV

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2023, 01:29:02 PM »
Ask yourself... Would I play better with a new keyboard, being it Genos 2, Montage+ or whatever?

Definitely I know the answer in my case: is a big and bold NOT

So... Keep on enjoying and playing what you have!

Jose
Jose Gavila
Yamaha U3H, DX7, TX81Z, DX11, SY77, TG77, SY85, A3000, AN1x, EX5, EX5R, EX7, MOTIF RACK XS, Montage 6 (B & WH), Genos

Plus lots other music toys :-)
 

Offline TLN41

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2023, 06:51:22 PM »
My issue may be unique - i want to get into writing music for my own enjoyment as a hobby - work/life balance. I have not had a keyboard since high school. I am willing to spend $3500 for the best tool/best sound. Just learning how to use it would be fun for me. I have Ableton but would really like a great keyboard with great sounds I can customize.

I like the workflow of the Fantom, but the sound in the Yamaha is night and day better. The MODX+ workflow is mostly unchanged from the MODX from what I can tell, so my plan is to make a purchase decision when the next Montage is released. Purchasing a Montage now, if I could find one, makes no sense. I was hoping to use the summer to dive in, but it seems I am in limbo waiting for Yamaha, or I settle for the MODX+ and hope I don't regret not waiting for all the extra bells and whistles in the new Montage.
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2023, 09:18:11 AM »
Hi


I would say in my view go for a Genos or wait until this november.
Arrangers such as the Genos are great for ideas.
I think a new Genos is coming then.
Once you get your idea then use VST instruments to make a great song.
I am now 72  so i am not going to be a rock star anytime soon and my vision now is to write ideas on the Genos and then use a combination of Genos and VST or even for better quality transfer to vst tracks (Instruments) via midi.
Just a thought or my pennies worth
I also thought of these synths such as Montage etc , but they are in depth machines with small screens.
It is a lot easier working on a computer for fine detail.

Al the best
John :)
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2023, 01:53:28 PM »
hi TLN41,
I'm not sure if there's a question, or are you sharing your thoughts... Still, here's my view on this:

.. i want to get into writing music for my own enjoyment as a hobby - work/life balance...
It really is important into what kind of music genre you're interested. Because, in my opinion, that can be important factor on deciding what type of keyboard you need: synthesizer or arranger.
I would say that synthesizer is a voice oriented machine and arranger is more a rhythm/accompaniment instrument. For example, if you wish to create a country song (or any rhythm based music actually), then this can be done much easier and faster on an arranger. That's my opinion, but I never owned a synthesizer, so I might be wrong.

By assuming that you're maybe considering arranger keyboard...
With $3500 you're a bit short, but I agree with John: if you can squeeze few more $, get current Genos. There are rumors that new Genos might come to market in late autumn this year.. yes, will probably be better (of course) -but will also cost a lot more than current Genos.
Second (my first actually) option would be PSR-SX900 (for about $2000), which you can later sell easier and with less loss -in case you realize you made a mistake by deciding for an arranger keyboard.

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 
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Offline TLN41

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2023, 03:52:29 PM »
Thanks John and Bogdan,

I have always had an interest in electronic/EDM type of music (slow relaxing instrumental to dance). I am not interested in performing/singing. Maybe do some cool instrumentals/enhancements of existing songs or remixes.

My thought is I would develop each track in a DAW, using the keyboard to perform/create each part separately - drums, strings, brass, piano, pad, create other cool sounds, etc. It would not be a performance all at once from the keyboard. I also have some physical challenges now - can't play at full speed, so I will use the DAW to adjust to the desired BPM while I play slower.

That is why I believe synth is the way to go vs Genos, plus Genos is almost double the Montage. And the Montage is almost double the MODX+. We will see if a new Montage will be worth the wait for me.
 

Offline pjd

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2023, 07:13:28 PM »
Just in case you're Rip Van Winkle: https://www.yamahasynth.com/learn/montage/montage-sayonara

Next model in the MONTAGE lineage is due October 2023. That's an official date, not speculative B.S.   :)

Yamaha are definitely in product line update mode!

-- pj

Wrote a short retrospective: http://sandsoftwaresound.net/montage-thank-you-for-playing/


 
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Offline TLN41

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2023, 10:06:09 PM »
And the new Montage in October 2023 likely means no Genos replacement until 2024 at the earliest.
 
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Offline ton37

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2023, 07:56:08 AM »
It looks that Yamaha after 7 years of the release informs his customers that a model is discontinued (see Montage). So we will indeed read in octobre 2024 that Yamaha has discontinued the Genos, as the Genos was launched in oct. 2017 !? Great that they inform their customers so quickly ...  ;)
« Last Edit: July 19, 2023, 07:57:59 AM by ton37 »
My best regards,
Ton
---------------------------
Former KB:Technics Sx-Kn7000, Tyros 5/76, Genos, S770, S975.
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2023, 08:22:59 AM »
...Great that they inform their customers so quickly ...  ;)
I think it's usual practice that "discontinued" is announced after production ends and existing stock is sold out -otherwise there's a big chance that people would stop buying existing old product.
In this (Genos) case, it's also expected that successor would be announced... which obviously doesn't exist. In short, there's nothing to announce.

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline ton37

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2023, 08:56:57 AM »
Not quite agree with you, Bogdan. There are enough examples in the economic market that companies people announce well in advance that a new model is coming (cars, mobile phones, TVs, etc., etc.). If Yamaha still had such a huge stock of 'old' Genossen, then they did something wrong. What is more obvious is that there is still a limited stock. Then it is also very common to sell those 'old' models at much lower prices. You don't have to be ashamed of a Genos if you buy it while a new one is in the pipeline, right? So..it doesn't feel very 'customer friendly' to say the least...but I think we know that??
My best regards,
Ton
---------------------------
Former KB:Technics Sx-Kn7000, Tyros 5/76, Genos, S770, S975.
 

Offline mikf

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2023, 09:55:27 AM »
My reading of the Yamaha announcement was that the decision to discontinue may not have been really planned, or even entirely voluntary. They seem to have accepted it has reached the end of the line in potential future development, and was already in short supply due to current component supply issues, mainly chips. So maybe they found themselves a bit cornered, and the decision kind of made itself. Particularly since they seemed to have almost no stock available. Itís even quite possible that they knew the announcement may drive a sales surge as people try to grab the last available, almost a collectors item. It was a very highly regarded keyboard in the market.
Mike
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2023, 10:39:02 AM »
hi Ton,
We can only speculate what Yamaha thinks, of course. I was in market/sale department before retirement and I think we can't compare cars or TV's with TOTL/midrange keyboards. The thing is, these products are targeting totally different consumers and also have totally different business & marketing approach.
In case of cars, TV's, smartphones, etc. competition is huge and everyone needs these products. And that's why we can see that i.e. some car is announced 2-3 years in advance -manufacturers wish to get customers on hook (and keep them on hook).
In case of keyboards, there's almost no competition and not that many really need this product -hence, there isn't much market pressure. That is, those who are interested, will just buy (or not) what's currently available -and not much is available.

Of course there's no shame to buy a discontinued model... But just hypothetical: what if Yamaha announced Genos is discontinued and there is no Genos successor? Many would think twice before buying it -they would look after more future safe solution (Korg maybe?).

I'm not necessary right in my way of thinking.. I'm just sharing my thoughts  :)

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline pjd

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2023, 06:56:51 PM »
Quote
If Yamaha still had such a huge stock of 'old' Genossen, then they did something wrong.

Yamaha itself may not be sitting on inventory. Yamaha dealers, however, have not sold through. That's why Yamaha dropped the USA Minimum Advertised Price (MAP) and on-line USA dealers are advertising a reduced price.

No business likes to make its distribution channels angry... :-)

Quote
My reading of the Yamaha announcement was that the decision to discontinue may not have been really planned, or even entirely voluntary.

I think Blake Angelos (Yamaha) was trying to soften the blow with his language. (Blake is a very decent chap.] It's an American thing -- put the negative message between two slices of tasty bread. :-)

One of the main chips in the Montage, SSP2, has been superceded by the SSP3. Further, synth folk have been clamoring for Virtual Analog (VA) synthesis. I don't believe the current SWP70 tone generator is capable of VA nor would anyone want to control VA using the Montage front panel controls such as they are.

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/where-to-put-an-x/

Quote
Of course there's no shame to buy a discontinued model...

I've been asking myself this question while contemplating the Yamaha P-515 digital piano. It was released in September 2018. If I bought one now, it would still be a darned fine piano that fits my needs. I think a T5 is still a darned fine keyboard, too. :-)

If anything, Yamaha's announcement has encouraged me to put off the P-515 until I see the new Monty 88 (or whatever) in October.

All the best -- pj

Offline ton37

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2023, 07:23:43 PM »
Yeah, sincerely thank you for sharing your thoughts here. My reactions are indeed nothing more than figments of thought. I detect in me some impatience to have a new toy. In addition to primarily playing music, this also appears to be an attractive side of playing the keyboard for me. And I'm a bit impatient, the years fly by. Initially I thought Yamaha could supply that to me. It has done it in the form of the Genos and now the SX900 . Because an upgrade of the Genos is taking longer than hoped, I am shifting my attention to other possibilities: a world without a new Genos does really exist  ;) That could be the Korg and/or together with VST via DAWs. Can of course be fun together with the SX900. Enough to hold onto my 'learniness or curiosity'. So the long wait has at least given me time to explore 'other musical horizons', without putting the energy into exploring a new model in the short term. So every disadvantage has its advantage, a famous football player once said ;-))
My best regards,
Ton
---------------------------
Former KB:Technics Sx-Kn7000, Tyros 5/76, Genos, S770, S975.
 

Offline hans1966

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2023, 03:39:22 PM »
I hope the new MONTAGE will be as light weight as MODX

just my thoughts ;)

Hans
Very soon!! I will have a keyboard again
 

Offline pjd

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2023, 05:25:13 PM »
The YamahaSynth.com site has published a sneak peek of the new Montage M:

https://www.yamahasynth.com/news/new-yamaha-synthesizer-sneak-peak

Check out the Montage M "subdisplay" above its knobs and sliders. Yamaha took this idea from Genos (gen 1) and fed it steroids. I hope GENOS2 gets this new display!

The sneak peek page also has a few Soundcloud demos. The Organ demo is getting people's hopes up for YC technology.

Have fun going over the pictures with a magnifying glass.  :)

-- pj
 
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Offline pjd

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2023, 05:29:32 PM »
Here's a picture of the new Montage M subdisplay for those too lazy to go to YamahaSynth.com.  :D

That's what you call a premium look worth $5K USD!  ;)

-- pj

Offline p$manK32

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2023, 07:03:41 PM »
Perhaps theyíll make the whole user interface on the larger screen easier to use, but I doubt it. I had no issues with the main 8-16 part Performance home screen layout, but diving down deeper into element level sound editing wasnít working for me, very unfriendly, more for sound engineers than musicians.

Rich
 

Offline steakikan

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2023, 05:46:46 PM »
Hmmm, the new touch screen interface does seems to say "New Synth Engine"
 

Offline p$manK32

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2023, 08:08:42 PM »
Hmmm, the new touch screen interface does seems to say "New Synth Engine"

What photo are you looking at? The photos Iím looking at donít indicate a new interface yet, other than some new waveform icons I had not seen before. But yeah it will most likely have the new analog synth engine.
 

Offline steakikan

Re: New Yamaha Montage
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2023, 03:28:23 AM »
What photo are you looking at? The photos Iím looking at donít indicate a new interface yet, other than some new waveform icons I had not seen before. But yeah it will most likely have the new analog synth engine.
The same one, cause the way it is designed is totally different from the old Montage including how they show the routing which hopefully seems to be flexible.