Author Topic: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970  (Read 6342 times)

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I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« on: January 27, 2023, 09:59:26 PM »
Hi guys, here are a few demos of the free CFX sound https://soundcloud.com/rodrigo-bamonde-vizcarra/free-cfx-sound/s-IDdFGN2SdKP?si=34516db71e02407fb7302de2672cd5c4&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing I hope you like it. Make a comment here if you like it and I will share the sound.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2023, 10:08:25 PM by rodrigo.b »
 

Offline Amwilburn

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2023, 10:11:13 PM »
That sounds real! and really great playing, as well!

I'm unfamiliar with soundfont; is it like a vst, or a sample?

Mark

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2023, 10:31:51 PM »
That sounds real! and really great playing, as well!

I'm unfamiliar with soundfont; is it like a vst, or a sample?

Mark

Thanks for comment. I found it on a YouTube video, but I have no idea if he sampled it from
A VST. I will make the PPF file so everyone can use it and I will post the link soon.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2023, 10:33:23 PM by rodrigo.b »
 

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2023, 10:39:19 PM »
Here is the link for the PPF file, I'm also including a free Alto Sax that I found https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qHllVWxa3pxE5nFab4Kpi3hITGg33IX3/view?usp=sharing The original SF2 is from a YT Channel called "Lyzen's Piano"
« Last Edit: January 27, 2023, 10:40:31 PM by rodrigo.b »
 

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2023, 12:32:40 AM »
Wow This is Amazing.
 
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Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2023, 05:17:34 PM »
I found a another free piano SoundFont but this time it is a Yamaha C7 Soundfont. I imported the SF2 file in to YEM and tested it on my PSR S970. Here is the result: https://soundcloud.com/rodrigo-bamonde-vizcarra/free-c7-sf2-test-on-s970/s-oi6L4qzIrZT?si=98272bb811b6454687b8209fb09209c8&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing
 
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Offline Amwilburn

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2023, 06:54:03 PM »
That one also sounds really nice; how do you import soundfont into pff? Just YEM? Another nice find!
How large would the ppf for that be? My poor s970 only has 509mb of room

(yes I know, time to upgrade to Genos. Wife said not until I sell off all my other boards :o)
Mark

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2023, 09:02:56 PM »
That one also sounds really nice; how do you import soundfont into pff? Just YEM? Another nice find!
How large would the ppf for that be? My poor s970 only has 509mb of room

(yes I know, time to upgrade to Genos. Wife said not until I sell off all my other boards :o)
Mark

My 970 has 509 mb of memory too  :(. Yes I imported the soundfont with YEM. The C7 sound is 359 mb

Offline BogdanH

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2023, 04:34:21 PM »
First, thank you rodrigo for sharing your finding!

I installed Lyzen's CFX piano voice on SX700 and my first impression is, it does sound good/realistic -in short: different than any of preset pianos. So I decided to download complete Lyzen's collection (all kind of pianos: Yamaha, Bösendorfer, Kawai, etc.).
The problem is (as some of you mentioned), these voices are quite big in size and after installing, there's not much space left for additional voices.

Anyway, I was wondering what makes a single voice so big and so I extracted wav samples from CFX SF2 file. My impression is, the creator was quite "generous" with samples:
As it seems, there are two samples (for L & R channel) for each key on keybed. All samples have sampling rate of 64000Hz and all samples have duration of about 11-12 seconds.

Now.. if samples would have sampling rate of 44100Hz (CD quality), then that alone would make voice ~45% smaller.
The second thing is... I understand that low keys need long duration, because they have long sustain. However, keys on right side have much shorter sustain and so duration of about 6-7 seconds would be more than enough (as it is now, the last 5-6s contain silence anyway). Why that matters? Because every second increases size for about 100kB and if every wav sample would only have length that's actually needed, that would reduce total voice size additional by about 40% (my guess).

I though I should share my finding to those who are interested.
Bogdan
« Last Edit: January 30, 2023, 07:06:10 PM by BogdanH »
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 
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Offline DerekA

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2023, 05:26:12 PM »
I'm no expert, but I would have thought sampling multiple velocity layers every few keys was a better option than sampling every key.
Genos
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2023, 05:54:41 PM »
@DerekA
I'm not an expert either, but yes, that's how it's usually done (to reduce the size and time required to record samples). Of course having separate sample for each key is way more accurate (is actually a copy of real piano). On the other hand, having a sample only every few keys does the job good enough, I think.
I will check other Lyzen's piano voices and then I'll see if it's worth trying to "optimize" some of these voices -that is, to reduce size substantially without (much) loss of quality.

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline Amwilburn

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2023, 06:23:15 PM »
@DerekA
I'm not an expert either, but yes, that's how it's usually done (to reduce the size and time required to record samples). Of course having separate sample for each key is way more accurate (is actually a copy of real piano). On the other hand, having a sample only every few keys does the job good enough, I think.
I will check other Lyzen's piano voices and then I'll see if it's worth trying to "optimize" some of these voices -that is, to reduce size substantially without (much) loss of quality.

Bogdan

that would be fantastic! Yes, 12 second samples for the top 2 octaves is a complete waste, as is recording every single note (digitial pianos used to record only every 3rd note, and except for some odd chord harmonics on certain chords when sustaining, it was impossible to tell otherwise). Frankly I'd try optimizing with every 4th (next factor of 12 would be 6)

Mark

Offline BogdanH

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2023, 07:09:29 PM »
Ok, I made few piano voices from Lyzen's collection. I decided to use 4 samples per octave (means, one sample covers 3 notes), which then covers C0 to C6 octave.  After resampling to 44.1kHz, I shortened length of samples accordingly: lowest octave (C0) 12-14sec and all the way to highest octave (C6) 1.5sec. That way I ended with about 32MB per each voice (Yamaha CFX, Steinway D274, Bösendorfer 290, Fazioli F308 and Kawai EX-S). Btw. I think voice would sound good even with only 3 samples/octave, but I haven't tried that yet.

I didn't modify samples (no EQ, no Compression, etc.), because I wanted to hear samples as they are. As for voice settings in YEM, I left most of them at default -I only changed ADSR curve, so voice responds more realistic when playing.

Obviously I never heard these high class pianos in real life, but I do remember how a "real piano" sounds. Now, how do these voices sound to me?...
In my ears, much better than any piano voice on my keyboard. Now that I can hear how piano can sound on my keyboard, all built-in piano voices sound to me like coming from a toy: flat and dull.
Keep in mind, that this is my personal opinion!

Just thought that I share my experience and maybe encourage others to try making custom voices.

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline Amwilburn

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2023, 11:00:30 PM »
Sweet, Bogdan! I know itunes can remix almost any audio format into 48khz or 44.1wav (I think Audacity can as well)... I wonder if 320kpbs mp3 files would also work as a soundfont? Then they could take up ~1/4 of the size!
What I don't know is how to take those reduced files and replace the original soundfont wavs, and them make a ppf from those? Could you elabourate?
Also would love to try the multiple other pianos from Lyzen, especially if you were able to get them down to 32mb each in *wav*!

thanks,

Mark

Offline BogdanH

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2023, 10:33:03 AM »
hi Mark,
First a short explanation for those who might peek into this thread... When we load any kind of audio file (mp3, flac, etc) into audio editor, it is first automatically converted to PCM audio data (except wav, which already contains PCM data). And the same happens when we playback any audio file. The reason for that is, because hardware (DAC) can only convert PCM data into analog audio. In that sense, mp3 is similar to zip file (except mp3 compression is much more effective for audio data).
Besides wav, Soundfont2 (SF2) editors usually only recognize lossless compressed audio files (i.e. flac). And it happens again: as soon flac file is imported into soundfont editor, it's converted to PCM. Means, even if it would read mp3 file, we wouldn't gain in file size. Ok, theoretically audio sample could be stored as mp3 inside soundfile (to make sf2 file smaller) -but there's a reason why that's not the case...
A voice (in YEM) is actually the same as soundfont and as we know, YEM only accepts wav samples. Yes, it could also accept mp3 files, but they would need to be converted to PCM data anyway.
Question remains: why aren't samples stored as mp3 compressed data inside voice (or inside soundfont)? The reason (in my opinion) is not because of sound quality.. it's because of speed. Because every time we would hit some key, sample would need to be decompressed (to PCM) first -which requires time. Now imagine playing 10 fingers, plus style is running... it would be impossible to keep the timing. PCM data doesn't need to be decoded/decompressed, because it's a stream of data that is directly sent to hardware and happens instantly.
The only way to reduce voice size is, to "optimize" wav samples:
1. To reduce number of samples per octave (I need to experiment more with this)
2. To reduce length of samples as much as possible
3. To reduce sample rate to 44100Hz (YEM doesn't accept lower than that).

Mark, I've sent you a mail few days ago and because you didn't respond I though you aren't interested.. I guess mail got lost somewhere at North pole  :) Email me, so I can send you the pack.

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 
The following users thanked this post: Amwilburn

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2023, 02:42:54 PM »
hi Mark,
First a short explanation for those who might peek into this thread... When we load any kind of audio file (mp3, flac, etc) into audio editor, it is first automatically converted to PCM audio data (except wav, which already contains PCM data). And the same happens when we playback any audio file. The reason for that is, because hardware (DAC) can only convert PCM data into analog audio. In that sense, mp3 is similar to zip file (except mp3 compression is much more effective for audio data).
Besides wav, Soundfont2 (SF2) editors usually only recognize lossless compressed audio files (i.e. flac). And it happens again: as soon flac file is imported into soundfont editor, it's converted to PCM. Means, even if it would read mp3 file, we wouldn't gain in file size. Ok, theoretically audio sample could be stored as mp3 inside soundfile (to make sf2 file smaller) -but there's a reason why that's not the case...
A voice (in YEM) is actually the same as soundfont and as we know, YEM only accepts wav samples. Yes, it could also accept mp3 files, but they would need to be converted to PCM data anyway.
Question remains: why aren't samples stored as mp3 compressed data inside voice (or inside soundfont)? The reason (in my opinion) is not because of sound quality.. it's because of speed. Because every time we would hit some key, sample would need to be decompressed (to PCM) first -which requires time. Now imagine playing 10 fingers, plus style is running... it would be impossible to keep the timing. PCM data doesn't need to be decoded/decompressed, because it's a stream of data that is directly sent to hardware and happens instantly.
The only way to reduce voice size is, to "optimize" wav samples:
1. To reduce number of samples per octave (I need to experiment more with this)
2. To reduce length of samples as much as possible
3. To reduce sample rate to 44100Hz (YEM doesn't accept lower than that).

Mark, I've sent you a mail few days ago and because you didn't respond I though you aren't interested.. I guess mail got lost somewhere at North pole  :) Email me, so I can send you the pack.

Bogdan

Please send me the pack too 🙂
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2023, 03:32:59 PM »
hi rodrigo,
You started with this and so I would be happy to send it to you. But from what I can see, you didn't activated your eMail in this forum (files can not be attached to PM). You need to activate eMail first, so you can contact me (or give me your eMail in PM).

General disclaimer:
This is my personal experiment with voices and is meant for learning purposes.

For those who might try making custom voices from Lyzen's soundfonts pack:
Although voices can be used for playing just fine, later I realized that some wav samples contain "sound error". I corrected that where error was obviously audible, but I'm sure I missed some of them. What I'm saying is, it can be very time consuming to make "perfect" voice from Lyzen's samples. But it makes fun playing voices created by yourself  :)

Bogdan
« Last Edit: February 05, 2023, 03:34:03 PM by BogdanH »
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline Amwilburn

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2023, 08:08:09 PM »
hi Mark,
First a short explanation for those who might peek into this thread... When we load any kind of audio file (mp3, flac, etc) into audio editor, it is first automatically converted to PCM audio data (except wav, which already contains PCM data). And the same happens when we playback any audio file. The reason for that is, because hardware (DAC) can only convert PCM data into analog audio. In that sense, mp3 is similar to zip file (except mp3 compression is much more effective for audio data).
*snip*

Mark, I've sent you a mail few days ago and because you didn't respond I though you aren't interested.. I guess mail got lost somewhere at North pole  :) Email me, so I can send you the pack.

Bogdan

*Smacks forehead*. Of course, pulse code modulation is still a linear lossless wav equivalent! D'uh, I'm getting old, lol.

I checked my emails, nothing... what was the title of the email? thanks! I'll see if I can find it; I checked Bogdan, PSRTutorial, soundfont and piano emails, nada.

Thanks for both!!
Mark

Offline BogdanH

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2023, 08:38:39 PM »
hi Mark,
I sent you email by clicking on email icon on your profile. I assume forum engine should send the message to your actual email and once you have it, you can see my email address to contact me. Is your email in this forum still valid? Just asking  8)
Or send me PM with your email address.

Btw. I know you have Genos (which isn't listed in your profile), but do you still have PSR-S970 (which is listed)?

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline Amwilburn

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2023, 08:52:45 PM »
i play with Genos at work, but I own what I listed, incl PSRs970, yup.

ok pm-ing  you my personal email; yes clicking on the forum link should take you to the same email.. weird!

Mark

Offline BogdanH

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2023, 08:59:49 PM »
Will send you tomorrow.. it's 10PM here right now  ;)

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline Amwilburn

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2023, 08:14:02 PM »
Thanks Bodgan, got the pack!

I'll try it on the work Genos first,
Mark

Offline BogdanH

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2023, 08:39:28 PM »
Great.. just keep in mind that voices are in no way "customized/optimized" -they sound as it came into microphone. I'm curious about your opinion, of course.

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline Amwilburn

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2023, 11:34:29 PM »
FInally got it to download. work hd was full (it's shared) so I had to delete some sample packs to be able to download yours!
A tiny 64mb, awesome! Until I unzipped it... holy that's a good compression ratio!

Hmm.. Couldn't test it. An error occurred and data could not be imported.
 :-\

ACK! No wonder. I just realized I'm still on YEM2.81; you used 2.9 to create, correct?

lol!

Mark

Offline BogdanH

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2023, 11:03:13 AM »
Yes, I'm using YEM2.90
WinRAR can compress wav (which is 95% of voice pack) extremely well. Here's a comparison of compression (for archiving purposes), where I used 8min24sec 16bit/44100kHz audio track (Dire Straits-Why worry):
wav =86.736KB, rar =50.475KB, flac=37.082KB
-that's lossless compression* (means, no loss of quality). Btw. mp3 at 320kbps has 19.670KB (which is lossy compression).

*-wav is not compressed.

Hurry Mark, I'm curious about your opinion  :)
Bogdan
« Last Edit: February 07, 2023, 11:05:57 AM by BogdanH »
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline SciNote

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2023, 05:12:22 PM »
Very interesting discussion.  But wouldn't over 8 minutes of WAV produce a file on the order of about 80 MB, not KB?
Bob
Current: Yamaha PSR-E433 (x2), Roland GAIA SH-01, Casio CDP-200R, Casio MT-68 (wired to bass pedals)
Past: Yamaha PSR-520, PSR-510, PSR-500, DX-7, D-80 home organ, and a few Casios
 

Offline overover

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2023, 06:10:33 PM »
Very interesting discussion.  But wouldn't over 8 minutes of WAV produce a file on the order of about 80 MB, not KB?

Hi Bob,

Bogdan's information is in KB (1024 KB = 1 MB), but to group the numbers, a comma would have to be used in English instead of the decimal point (i.e. exactly the opposite of e.g. in German).

For example, "wav =86.736KB" in Bogdan's post actually means 86736KB (= 86,736KB), which is about 84.7MB.) :)


Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: February 07, 2023, 07:35:51 PM by overover »
➪ Everyone kept saying "That won't work!" - Then someone came along who didn't know that and just did it.
➪ Never put the manual too far away: There's more in it than you think! ;-)
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2023, 06:41:30 PM »
Chris, thank you for explaining!
Yes, here we use a "point" as thousand separator and comma as decimal separator. We even say "decimal comma" (in my language)  :)

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline SciNote

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2023, 09:21:39 PM »
Ah, yes. I forgot about how the functions of the comma and decimal point are switched throughout the world!
Bob
Current: Yamaha PSR-E433 (x2), Roland GAIA SH-01, Casio CDP-200R, Casio MT-68 (wired to bass pedals)
Past: Yamaha PSR-520, PSR-510, PSR-500, DX-7, D-80 home organ, and a few Casios
 

Offline Amwilburn

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2023, 06:45:12 PM »
Yes, I'm using YEM2.90
WinRAR can compress wav (which is 95% of voice pack) extremely well. Here's a comparison of compression (for archiving purposes), where I used 8min24sec 16bit/44100kHz audio track (Dire Straits-Why worry):
wav =86.736KB, rar =50.475KB, flac=37.082KB
-that's lossless compression* (means, no loss of quality). Btw. mp3 at 320kbps has 19.670KB (which is lossy compression).

*-wav is not compressed.

Hurry Mark, I'm curious about your opinion  :)
Bogdan

Updated to YEM 2.90.... still gives me an error occurred, could not import?

D'oh

Mark

Offline BogdanH

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2023, 07:11:16 PM »
Sorry to hear that Mark.. no idea why's that.. maybe file got corrupted somehow.
Right now I've sent you pack again.

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline Amwilburn

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2023, 07:41:16 PM »
Yup, it was a corrupted download, this time it worked!

Now to install them to give them a whirl!

Mark

Offline Amwilburn

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2023, 09:51:36 PM »
Hmm... the CFX and the Kawai sound exactly the same ;p The Steinway (which is the best piano in the world) sounds the worst from this soundfont.

The Yamaha, Kawai, and Fazioli all fared better on this pack; I think because they sounded less 'plunky'. The Bosendorfer, normally a very gentle sounding piano, sounds super thin and plunky; like all notes were recorded at fff.

Still, for the 64mb sample sizes, I think the Yamaha and Faz are worth installing! Thanks so much for doing this

Mark

Offline BogdanH

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2023, 10:31:07 AM »
Thank you Mark, for sharing your opinion.

From what I've research so far, all soundfont samples I could find for free are fff only. One can buy samples that also include other velocities, but they cost a fortune.
And then... if voice that only contains fff samples has size of about 40MB, then voice having five velocities samples, would have size of 200MB -is still acceptable for hi-quality voice, though. Anyway, to keep voice size small, lower velocities are usually added as "artificial" layers, where velocity is only simulated (by frequencies cut-off, etc.).
But I didn't do that in pack that I've sent you, because I wanted you to hear samples as they are -and also because I wasn't sure at that time, if it's worth bothering.
Btw. I'm quite sure, that Lyzen didn't actually record samples (he only made a collection of samples that he found elsewhere). I say that, because I found exactly the same CFX soundfont which additionally contains higher octave samples. That's to be expected, because not everyone is in the position to record $200.000 piano.

Almost forgot.. later I found out, that most of this samples have L/R channel reversed. Means, when you play low key, it will sound louder on right speaker and vice verse. I think that's not because there's something wrong with samples -it might depend on where microphone was positioned at recording. But that can easily be solved when creating voice.
I also realized, that some (not many) notes in samples contain short high pitch tone at the beginning when hammer hits (it's most noticeable at low keys). In that case, one needs to choose next key sample (i.e. C#1 instead of C1). And that can additionally make a lot of work, because we usually notice these things after we install and play the voice.

It's interesting that CFX and Kawai sound the same to you... I can't confirm that.
Anyway, for me personally, CFX sounds the best (is most "pleasant" among them) and so I will try to make a "final" voice out of it.

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline Amwilburn

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2023, 06:32:18 PM »
That's the thing, in real life, all 5 of these sound quite different from each other! THe CFX is the closest to how it should sound, the Kawaii sounding like a Yamaha is rather odd! And the Bosendorfer, normally a very gentle tone, sounds the most removed from reality!

Offline BogdanH

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2023, 08:29:11 PM »
Let me recap what I've learned so far...
First and most important: when we get some voice or soundfont (for cheap), usually we know nothing about it's source (the origin of samples). Ok, they say "recorded with hi-quality equipment" etc., but reality is usually far from that. Quite possible samples come from some (piano) keyboard. I mean, it's easy to get samples from keyboard we own, right? And then, these samples go trough many hands, where everyone tries to "optimize" them (which were already "optimized" by someone else before). Or someone just makes a little equalization and adds/removes reverb and calls it Steinberg -you get the point.
After saying all that, I would actually be very happy if I could get untouched samples from high quality digital piano (that has CFX voice built-in).

@Mark
I "studied" samples (of voices in pack that I sent you) and came to conclusion, that all voices (except CFX) simply have too short (too steep) decay. That is, after pressing the key, loudness falls too rapidly and continues with sustain. Turn off touch sensitivity, turn on sustain, hit C3 key (for example) and compare CFX with other voices. I don't say CFX is "great", but is still quite usable I think.
So I made a new CFX voice (because L/R channel needed to be swapped anyway) and used samples from another soundfont (which is less "optimized" I believe). Finally I deleted all other voices.

Thank you all for patience reading this  :)
Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline overover

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2023, 10:42:24 AM »
Hello everyone,

if someone doesn't know this site yet, you can find there a lot of high-quality free SF2 soundfonts, including many high-quality pianos, and in many quality levels / file sizes. :)
>>> https://sites.google.com/site/soundfonts4u/


Best regards,
Chris
➪ Everyone kept saying "That won't work!" - Then someone came along who didn't know that and just did it.
➪ Never put the manual too far away: There's more in it than you think! ;-)
 
The following users thanked this post: rodrigo.b, Amwilburn

Offline BogdanH

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2023, 12:37:31 PM »
hi Chris,
Thank you for pointing on this. Actually I downloaded few soundfiles from this site, but I just didn't have time to try them.

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline Amwilburn

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2023, 12:55:16 AM »
Thanks Chris!

I just tried a bunch of them, shockingly unusable because there's a weird 'wash' sound as you sustain. Imagine if someone sampled white noise as piano resonnance. But I'll keep looking! Just be warned, none of the 237mb and below samples works great (the 'wash' is a lot less noticeable on the the C5 v2, but it's sitll there).

Maybe it's just an issue importing the sf2 directly into yem?

Offline overover

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2023, 05:22:06 AM »
Thanks Chris!

I just tried a bunch of them, shockingly unusable because there's a weird 'wash' sound as you sustain. Imagine if someone sampled white noise as piano resonnance. But I'll keep looking! Just be warned, none of the 237mb and below samples works great (the 'wash' is a lot less noticeable on the the C5 v2, but it's sitll there).

Maybe it's just an issue importing the sf2 directly into yem?

Hi Mark,

A long time ago I experimented with older versions of "Yamaha C5 Salamander Grand" and some "Steinway" soundfonts from the Soundfonts4U site. They actually sounded really good. After importing into the YEM, however, the reverb settings should be checked and optimized. (Often too much reverb is set.)

By the way, for quick viewing of sf2 soundfont files (to check the layers and samples inside) I use "Awave Studio". The trial version can be downloaded here:
>>> https://www.fmjsoft.com/awavestudio.html#main

You can also install the Coolsoft "VirtualMIDISynth" and load the desired soundfont there. You can set the VirtualMIDISynth as the MIDI output device of your DAW or a MIDI file player (I use "vanBasco Player"). However, the VirtualMIDISynth cannot be played in real time, i.e. you will have an audible latency (delay) if it is controlled directly by a MIDI keyboard.
>>> https://coolsoft.altervista.org/en/virtualmidisynth

To edit sf2 files I have installed the two free programs "Polyphone" and "Viena64", but I hardly do anything in this direction at the moment.
>>> https://www.polyphone-soundfonts.com/
>>> http://www.synthfont.com/Downloads.html


P.S.
Unfortunately, the YEM (as stated by Yamaha) still does not fully support the sf2 soundfont format. So you need a bit of luck that an imported sf2 file actually sounds as expected. In some cases it can help if you load the sf2 file in an sf2 editor (e.g. Awave Studio, Polyphone or Viena) and just save it again.


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: February 12, 2023, 05:28:18 AM by overover »
➪ Everyone kept saying "That won't work!" - Then someone came along who didn't know that and just did it.
➪ Never put the manual too far away: There's more in it than you think! ;-)
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2023, 10:27:02 AM »
The only benefit of loading soundfont directly into YEM is saving a lot of time -that way we can quickly get an impression of the sound (in sense, is it "interesting" or not). And even then, we should turn settings in YEM to default values -is the only way to "judge" the sample without being affected artificially.
The big downside of using soundfont directly, is huge resulting voice size. Most soundfonds contain sample for each note individually, which we don't really need. In YEM, we can remove samples for keys we don't need, but there's another problem: most soundfonts contain unnecessary long samples (which increases voice size tremendously) -and we can't shorten samples in YEM.
And the third potentially downside is sample rate. The thing is, soundfonts many time contain 48000Hz or higher samples (which again increases voice). If we manually add samples, then YEM only accept 44100Hz samples. However, if we add soundfont, then YEM also accepts higher sample rates.
That is, to get reasonable small voices (without actually reducing the quality), soundfont samples (for notes that we wish to have) must be extracted as wav files and then shortened and resampled. And then we import them into YEM manually.

It's interesting how differently we "judge" the quality of piano voices. I realize, that many prefer "nice sounding" piano voices... regardless of how real piano actually sounds. And I think that's the reason why piano voices in our keyboards sound as they do: they sound "nice", but far from real piano (in my opinion). Most built-in piano voices are over-polished, have too short decay/sustain, lack resonance, etc... and our ears adapted to that and accepted the sound as "piano sound". And when we find a soundfont that has samples sounding closer to real piano, we aren't capable to recognize that (unless we compare it to real piano).
About too short decay/sustain... for example: if we hit (ff) any key in C1 octave and keep it pressed, every real piano has very audible decay/sustain of over 30 seconds. Piano voices in our keyboards however, have max 15sec sustain, where the last third is at such low level that is not even worth mentioning. Some might say, nobody plays single note for that long time. Is true. But decay time affects how loud will a sound be after (for example) only 2, 3,.. 5 seconds -and that is important! This also applies for higher octaves notes, of course. How is that solved in our keyboard? By adding effects (reverb, hall, etc.)... which just isn't the same.

Just sharing my thoughts,
Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline Amwilburn

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2023, 07:55:20 PM »
Ah, thank you both, I'll look at the reverb settings, that might be it. BH, how do I check the sample rate and # of notes sampled? You're right, you absolutely don't need every note sampled or a rate above 44.1 (since the PSRs themselves don't use sample rates above that!). One of the Steinways was every 4th note sampled, I'll have to see if I can get rid of the white noise wash,

Mark

Offline BogdanH

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2023, 09:41:02 PM »
What you need, is Polyphone soundfont editor -it's free, full featured and easy to use. Additionally you need an audio editor, obviously. Many use Audacity, I prefer Goldwave.. any will do the job.

When you open soundfont (sf2) file in Polyphone, you will see four buttons on the left side. One of them is Samples. Click on "up-arrow" next to it and list of all samples will appear. If you select particular sample, then you can see all info about that sample (incl. sample rate). Here you can change sample rate if you wish (or later in audio editor). You can also change sample rate of all sample inside sf2 at once (click 1st sample, shift+click last sample). Once samples are selected, just pick sample rate value you wish to have (keep in mind, it can take a little while if you select many samples).
You can export samples in similar manner: select samples and click on Toolbox icon on top. You'll be asked in which folder you wish to export samples and that's it: wav samples are ready to be modified.

Now, sample names don't necessary stand for correct key.. for example, sample named C2 will actually be C0 key. To solve this mystery, click on Instruments "up-arrow" on the left side and select one item there. You will see a spreadsheet on the right side. Here you pay attention on top line (sample names) and on values in "Root key" line. Even there are a lot of samples, you'll soon recognize the pattern (because sample names usually are sorted properly). Btw. for one sample note, L and R channel are shown separately, but exported sample will be single (stereo) wav file.
After you export samples as wav files, I recommend you to rename samples according to root key -that way it will be easier to import samples into YEM later.
That was easier part so far and can be done relative fast.

Now you need to open each sample in audio editor. What you do there depends on situation, but usually you will need to shorten them (and resample, if you didn't do that in Polyphone). Can take a LOT of time... The rest is voice creation in YEM.

Hmmm.. I'm not sure if I answered the question...  ???  :)
Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 
The following users thanked this post: Amwilburn

Offline Amwilburn

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2023, 06:18:56 PM »
Hmmm.. I'm not sure if I answered the question...  ???  :)
Bogdan

yes, I think so! Thanks!

Mark

Offline lmederos

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2023, 10:52:02 PM »
I apologize for coming late to this party...

I would be very interested in the download link for these too, if  possible!

Thanks in advance.

-- Luis

PSR-SX900
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: I Found a free CFX soundfont and it works great on my PSR S970
« Reply #45 on: February 24, 2023, 09:28:37 AM »
hi Imederos,
Download links for free soundfonts are already given in this thread. Seems two most interesting are:
Lyzen's soundfonts and
Soundfonts 4U

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube