Topic: Korg Pa5x vs. "Genos 2 -61"

[ton37]

The Genos and PA5X were in the same room. What struck me about the appearance of the Genos compared to the PA5x .... the appearance, the design of the Genos is quite dated. While the Korg looks modern and clear due to a well-readable layout on the front, supported by colored LEDs, the Genos front looks very boring. Badly legible letters, even illegible due to the use of black letters on black buttons. Hopefully new designers have started working on it to create a better, more user-friendly and more visible layout. But that's been mentioned before, but it struck me as next to each other. Ok, enough about this for me.

PS. @BogdanH: new firmware till the end of 2022? ... lot of (cheaper) digital products nowadays gives an update garantee for 2/3 years!

[BogdanH]

hello @ton37,

...
PS. @BogdanH: new firmware till the end of 2022? ... lot of (cheaper) digital products nowadays gives an update garantee for 2/3 years!

-I have an impression I was misunderstood. What I wanted to say is, you (we) don't need to wait that long, to see how Pa5X is supposed to perform.

And I agree with you about design differences between Genos and just released Korg & Ketron -because 1st impression sure does matter! But to be fair, Genos appearance was also quite impressive at launch time. It's just as time goes by, we sometimes get bored looking at "old" stuff -unless it's an exceptional design.

Bogdan

[Toril S]

The Genos looks better, but the Tyros 5 looks the best!

[ton37]

Thnx @BogdanH, you'r right, I misunderstood your post. Sorry for that, I now understand what you ment

Talking about a exceptional difference in keyboard-design: I remember the Technics Line; especially the Technics SX-KN7000 . That was tmho. an exceptional design in the Technics KN-line.  and then it was over 

[BogdanH]

I was a huge fan of Technics hi-fi equipment in 80's (after Sansui and Akai went out of business). Hmmm... not that I'm that old 

[ugawoga]

The Genos and PA5X were in the same room. What struck me about the appearance of the Genos compared to the PA5x .... the appearance, the design of the Genos is quite dated. While the Korg looks modern and clear due to a well-readable layout on the front, supported by colored LEDs, the Genos front looks very boring. Badly legible letters, even illegible due to the use of black letters on black buttons. Hopefully new designers have started working on it to create a better, more user-friendly and more visible layout. But that's been mentioned before, but it struck me as next to each other. Ok, enough about this for me.

PS. @BogdanH: new firmware till the end of 2022? ... lot of (cheaper) digital products nowadays gives an update garantee for 2/3 years!

The Genos does look like the BMW, very Germanic in design.

[ton37]

  That is an interesting point of view, John: tomorrow I will look to a BMW and will do my utmost best to compare it with the Genos. No garanty I succeed

[ton37]

Mmm.. the long awaited December firmware update for the PA5x isn't as earth-shattering as hoped ... Allas, what should you expect when the OS update version goes from 1.0 to 1.1, what's in the name/ number?
We'll just have to wait and see what the future holds in our keyboard-world: 2023 can become a interesting year .. (and if not, enjoy what you have. There are other prior global problems enought)   

[Toril S]

As for looks, I ahve to say the Genos looks MUCH better than the Korg. It does not have an overcrowded panel, but is sleek and functional.

[EileenL]

Because Jeff that is what most people wanted.

[ton37]

Mmm.., soo you mean: most people have said to Yamaha.. pls. give us black figures on black knobs on a black front? Neuhh, it is purely a designers choice, the consumer has no influence ... just take it or leave it

[EileenL]

Well it seems we all took it and are happy with it.
You will never please everyone.

[ugawoga]

There is no Keyboard arranger to beat the Genos yet

[mikf]

John - that’s your opinion, but there will be many who disagree. They all have pros and cons.
Mike

[RonsonDenmark]

Having used Yamaha keyboards since the 90'es (PSR-730) I ordered (and paid!) a pa5x in June.
Now 6 months later Thomann still haven't delivered - they can't even give a date, only that it will be "several months" ... just like they have been saying for the last 6 months. A bit hard to believe them at this point.

Eventually I will have to get a refund or 'convert' the order to the hopefully upcoming "Genos X2". I was still planning to also buy a Yamaha replacement for my T5 (I skip every other, so I skipped T2, T4, Genos) but I was hoping to also have something other than a Yamaha to play with.

The same piano sounds for 25 years is getting on my nerves..

[BogdanH]

...they can't even give a date, only that it will be "several months" ...

...delivered not earlier than April 2023 due to the " Grand December Update ".. apparently...

Most (if not all) European electronic equipment manufacturers are heavily dependent on chinese electronic components market. And considering the current situation (China embargo for hi-tech, covid situation in China, etc), I'm not surprised about scarce supply from China (they protect their own interests, I guess).
And who's to blame? Europe itself! In last 20 years, Europe relied entirely on imports from China and during that time, practically no investments have been made in chip development & production. Simply because it was easier to make big money by importing parts (or many times, complete products).
Korg? In my eyes, Pa5X is actually a vaporware, where no one knows when is that to change. Actually, reason for delay is irrelevant for consumer -what matter is, can it be delivered or not.

Just my opinion -and ranting a bit 
Bogda

[mikf]

As I stated in an earlier post, Korg were never going to hold back sales because of a firmware update. The two things are separate and I suspect the dealer is the one tying them together in a convenient but not really accurate story.
Korg - like many other manufacturers - are struggling to get timely delivery of hardware for various reasons. I tried to buy a new car in the UK this summer and one brand was 18 months delivery, another was ‘minimum 9 months but probably longer’. Chips may be one issue - and it’s convenient to put the blame on China - but I suspect there are many other factors including post Covid cash flow issues at retailers, who delay ordering stock. Construction companies and small
builders are struggling to get materials - and that has zero to do with chips from China.
Mike

[BogdanH]

...and it’s convenient to put the blame on China..

-I didn't blame China (quite opposite actually).

As for the cars... Few years back, I was working at official store/service for european car company for many years and so I'm still quite well informed in this regard: the only reason for long waiting list (for new cars) was shortage of electronics supply from China. And that's not even a secret (i.e. BMW even offered some hi-class cars at reduced price, if buyer agree with "it doesn't have this and that").
At the same time, there was no problem to get new Japanese or Korean car in a month or less -actually they increased the sale in that period of time (obviously). How's that possible? Well, they have the needed industry.
Of course, I don't know the reasons for Pa5X delay.. I'm just making conclusions -which can also be wrong. But as I said, for customer, reasons are less important: "You can't deliver? I'll check the competition."

Bogdan

[SynthHog]

Hey RonsonDenmark :

Last week, my Dutch dealer said all Korg PA5X models will be delivered not earlier than April 2023 due to the " Grand December Update " which, apparently, is not completely finished yet.

We are not used to pay in The Netherlands when a product is not in stock.
Sometimes dealers are asking an advance of 10% whilst the firm order has been signed by the customer.

Best regards, JH

Hi there....I've just joined the Forum....I Ordered my Korg PA5X-76 on the 10th August and took delivery last week on the 14th December....
I came from a Tyros-3 which i had from new so a long time....
I sold the Tyros but i'm instantly missing alot of Styles i loved and the Cornet ha ha....
So ive joined here as i'm going to order a PSR-SX900 to go with the PA5X.....

[overover]

Hi there....I've just joined the Forum....I Ordered my Korg PA5X-76 on the 10th August and took delivery last week on the 14th December....
I came from a Tyros-3 which i had from new so a long time....
I sold the Tyros but i'm instantly missing alot of Styles i loved and the Cornet ha ha....
So ive joined here as i'm going to order a PSR-SX900 to go with the PA5X.....

Welcome to the PSR Tutorial Forum, SynthHog!

I wish you a lot of fun and joy with your new SX900.


All the best from Germany,
Chris

[ton37]

Hi there....I've just joined the Forum....I Ordered my Korg PA5X-76 on the 10th August and took delivery last week on the 14th December....
I came from a Tyros-3 which i had from new so a long time....
I sold the Tyros but i'm instantly missing alot of Styles i loved and the Cornet ha ha....
So ive joined here as i'm going to order a PSR-SX900 to go with the PA5X.....

Hi @SynthHog, welcome the Yammie-forum. I think the combination you chose is a good one. I tried the PA5x life at the time (September) and was very enthusiastic about it. The firmware update etc. prevent me from purchasing it. I only want to actually buy it when it's in stock. I'm still go for from the Genos2 (2023 and version-61). If no sign from Yamaha before autumn 2023 (Genos 2-61, still expect!) I will go for the combination SX900 (baby Genos) and the PA5x (61). If you have them both please share your experience with that combination? Lots of fun ...

[SynthHog]

Hi @SynthHog, welcome the Yammie-forum. I think the combination you chose is a good one. I tried the PA5x life at the time (September) and was very enthusiastic about it. The firmware update etc. prevent me from purchasing it. I only want to actually buy it when it's in stock. I'm still go for from the Genos2 (2023 and version-61). If no sign from Yamaha before autumn 2023 (Genos 2-61, still expect!) I will go for the combination SX900 (baby Genos) and the PA5x (61). If you have them both please share your experience with that combination? Lots of fun ...

Well only had the PA5X just over a week but i'm impressed....I've ordered the SX900 today from the same Dealer and that will be with me next Thursday...
I've also got a Roland Jupiter X so between that the PA5X and SX900 i'm well covered especially on the Arranger front for each others Strengths and Weaknesses.
But when i get all set up and a good few hours on them any questions i'll try and answer especially sounds/styles etc etc.....

[Whitecolin11]

Having received the Korg Pa5x and still have my Genos I have to say the comparison was poor, although sound is subjective the Korg wins conclusively on Piano, Organ and in particularly strings which are the best ive heard.
Doing a highlight reel on styles on both the overwhelming result was Korg sound almost Live in comparison, but this is only true of some of the styles, accross the Board the Genos has the more rounded styles and more usable and identifiable styles.
The Korg is great but so is the Genos in the same way Audi and Bmw are great in different ways the Bmw sharper the Audi more refined. One thing i will say though is the Korg is easier to operate.

[BogdanH]

hi Whitecoin,
Thank you for reporting your impression.

Bogdan

[RonsonDenmark]

We are not used to pay in The Netherlands when a product is not in stock.

It is also not normal in Denmark to pay up front, and normally - if it was in stock - I would just use my credit card.

But I think the issue here is that Thomann can't debit the money right away and a card reservation would expire so they asked for they money to be transferred to their bank account.
So they money is just sitting there in their bank account until I get impatient enough - or a new Genos is released

[SynthHog]

Hi @SynthHog, welcome the Yammie-forum. I think the combination you chose is a good one. I tried the PA5x life at the time (September) and was very enthusiastic about it. The firmware update etc. prevent me from purchasing it. I only want to actually buy it when it's in stock. I'm still go for from the Genos2 (2023 and version-61). If no sign from Yamaha before autumn 2023 (Genos 2-61, still expect!) I will go for the combination SX900 (baby Genos) and the PA5x (61). If you have them both please share your experience with that combination? Lots of fun ...

Well unfortunately after 8days with the SX900 ive returned it....Its probally not fair to compare it to the PA5X and as i'm new i certainly dont want to Insult any 900 owners but my personal opinion is it has way to many downsides to pair with the 5x...
Genos would be a better match but i think its too late in the day for that....
So i'll just lurk around and see what Genos 2 has to offer to pair with the Korg....
Hopefully Genos 2 has the Features i'm hoping for.....

[BogdanH]

...i certainly dont want to Insult any 900 owners...

None of SX900 owners shouldn't feel insulted: Pa5X costs the double and is currently the latest top of the line keyboards -and reality must be accepted.
No doubt that 5000€ keyboard is much better than any mid-range keyboard. The only question that SX owners (incl. me) need to honestly answer to ourself is, is it worth for me to upgrade? How much (if at all) will I actually benefit of having such keyboard?
And to find answer to that question, I think we all appreciate objective opinions and comments from those who own(ed) both.

Bogdan

[mixermixer]

Well unfortunately after 8days with the SX900 ive returned it....Its probally not fair to compare it to the PA5X and as i'm new i certainly dont want to Insult any 900 owners but my personal opinion is it has way to many downsides to pair with the 5x...
Genos would be a better match but i think its too late in the day for that....
So i'll just lurk around and see what Genos 2 has to offer to pair with the Korg....
Hopefully Genos 2 has the Features i'm hoping for.....

What is it you're looking for that the SX900 can't provide?

[rphillipchuk]

None of SX900 owners shouldn't feel insulted: Pa5X costs the double and is currently the latest top of the line keyboards -and reality must be accepted.
No doubt that 5000€ keyboard is much better than any mid-range keyboard. The only question that SX owners (incl. me) need to honestly answer to ourself is, is it worth for me to upgrade? How much (if at all) will I actually benefit of having such keyboard?
And to find answer to that question, I think we all appreciate objective opinions and comments from those who own(ed) both.

Bogdan

Nicely Said !

[ton37]

Well unfortunately after 8days with the SX900 ive returned it....Its probally not fair to compare it to the PA5X and as i'm new i certainly dont want to Insult any 900 owners but my personal opinion is it has way to many downsides to pair with the 5x...
Genos would be a better match but i think its too late in the day for that....
So i'll just lurk around and see what Genos 2 has to offer to pair with the Korg....
Hopefully Genos 2 has the Features i'm hoping for.....

Thank you for your info, don't worry. Each have their own reason to make choices to buy or not. And as a keyboard is not a human, but just a material thing: I dont love it, or hate it .... just like  a t-shirt ... if you don't like it, get another. The only difference is the price range 

[SynthHog]

What is it you're looking for that the SX900 can't provide?

Well in the PA5X thats everything the SX-900 can't provide....i purchased the the SX900 without trying one based on peoples opinions in forums such as this one and various reviews and youtube....I was well aware of the Spec's and thought i could do without the features of say a Genos....I was wrong....No aftertouch and lack of real time controllers was a real problem for me....Lack of SA2 Voices again something i knew i couldn't live with out....
But the biggest thing was the sound....Next to the 5x it sounded flat and small....No expression when playing...Just Dull...
But ive always had flagship Organs/Piano's, Synths and arrangers and that again will be part of it....
So for me i shall wait on the Genos 2 to add to my set up.....

[ton37]

Thanks @Synthhog you for your feedback. You mention exactly those things that indeed stand out with the SX. The Genos offered the aftertouch and SA2. He sounded, out of the box also quite 'dull'. If you can soften something through some EQing it can sound acceptable to you. You can accept that depending on your own needs. In any case, you indicate that the PA5x sounds more dynamic and lively (I assume, because that is also my experience). In addition, it has some features that are missing in the current Yamaha range. Like everyone else, people are waiting for the new Yamaha and hoping that it will live up to our expectations? But for now you can enjoy a fine Korg for now...as I do with a SX900..and others of their Genos...and still others of their Ketron..and there are those who enjoy their 'x'-model. Happy keyboard playing

[BogdanH]

...for now you can enjoy a fine Korg for now...as I do with a SX900..and others of their Genos...and still others of their Ketron..and there are those who enjoy their 'x'-model.

-very well put.
It always comes down to musician (if we forget the wallet). Even if I would have 5000€ keyboard right now, I'm sure my music would be pretty much the same as is on my SX700 -because my playing skill limits me. And over the time as we (hopefully) improve, we start looking after something "better" -and once we have it, it's hard to go back 

Bogdan