Author Topic: Do we really need complicated keyboards  (Read 6167 times)

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Offline Oldden

Do we really need complicated keyboards
« on: December 28, 2022, 07:37:30 PM »
I’ve looked at a lot of the reply’s about various keyboards mentioned on this site and others. What I’m saying do we really need so many knobs, sliders, touch screens and the rest to enjoy music. I realise that we gets loads of styles, voices and the rest , but are we becoming just knob twirler's instead of musicians. In the past I’ve enjoyed playing an old upright, and slightly out of tune piano at a local pub probably just as much as I enjoy playing on my Genos. The point I’m try to make probably, is that once music was a communal thing, family singing at Christmas and the rest, but it’s now it’s putting on a show for and audience either sitting in rows or at a table. Maybe or more likely it’s just me getting old ,I’m in my late seventies and I can’t remember when I and whichever girlfriend at the time last danced to a live band. We seem to have lost the communal side of music or is it just me.
 
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Offline BogdanH

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2022, 08:18:24 PM »
About just pushing buttons... it depends. Buttons are there to be used OR not. It happens a lot of times, that I just set to piano voice that I like and spend the whole time playing only on it. But if it happens I get a "creativity moment" (not that often really), then it sure is great to have options available -is a reason why I decided for arranger keyboard.
And I agree about (dancing on) "live" music nowadays.. live bands have been replaced by DJ's and young people seem to enjoy what they hear -go figure  :o
Yeah, I can remember local bands playing at hotel/restaurant on terrace.. they were far from "perfect", but they were authentic -and that matters.

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 
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Offline Rick D.

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2022, 08:32:24 PM »
Oldden,

I tend to agree with you,  but at the same time making things easier for beginners gets more people playing.
I do enjoy sitting at the piano with no fancy knobs or buttons though!

Rick D.

Offline GregB

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2022, 09:06:35 PM »
It's just a tool; 90% is in the heart, mind, and skill of the musician.

My PSR-520 was much less sophisticated than my PSR-S950, yet I used it for 18 years in church worship bands, including for 8 years when I was in rotation every 3-4 weeks at a church of 3,500 people.  (yes, there were skeptics -- initially!)

That said, I ended up using more sounds and features on that PSR-520 in a live worship service than I ever expected, and I do find the tools and features on an arranger workstation quite useful.  And the S950 vastly improved on the 520.

Do I need something more than a piano?  Honestly, no.  But it's useful, and I'll gladly enjoy the opportunity to play it. :)

- Greg
PSR-S950
PSR-520
1920 Bush & Lane Upright Grand
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2022, 09:34:09 PM »
I don't find them complicated, however, there is a learning curve involved, just like your PC, Smart Phone, and the latest cars.

Gary  8)
Love Those Yammies...
 
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Offline pjd

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2022, 10:25:51 PM »
I’ve looked at a lot of the reply’s about various keyboards mentioned on this site and others. What I’m saying do we really need so many knobs, sliders, touch screens and the rest to enjoy music.

Hello Oldden --

I've had one-on-one discussions with various Yamaha synth marketing people. They would actually agree with you! Many musicians -- potential customers -- are apprehensive or turned-off by the apparent complexity of modern keyboards, synths and arranger keyboards alike. A potential customer sees all of those buttons, etc. in the store and walks away baffled -- and a sale is lost.

For everyday use, I mostly sit down and play -- no styles, backing tracks, etc. I enjoy the quality of the Genos instruments. Lately, I dip more into the MIDI and audio recording features finding them to be more convenient to use than Cubase.

As an example, I spent over 20 minutes today in Cubase trying to figure out why MIDI wasn't going to a software instrument and no sound was coming out. Genos, I turn it on and play, generally bug free.

Part of learning PSR-S950 then and Genos now, is learning what is important to me and how to selectively ignore the rest.  :D

All the best to ya -- pj

Offline Joe H

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2022, 10:41:26 PM »
Oldden,

The answer to your question is YES.  The reason being Yamaha have to build a "one size fits all" keyboard.  As stated above, just use the features you need and are comfortable with.  Some people find there aren't enough features. 

"To each his own"!

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 
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Offline travlin-easy

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2022, 11:48:58 PM »
One of the main problems is most users/owners are not willing to take the to read the user manual, which, unfortunately, is very poorly written and difficult to understand. However, if you sit down with the manual, side by side with the keyboard, and go through all the features, step by step, you will discover the greatest instrument ever made. Granted, this will take some time, but in the end, the effort is well worth it. Eventually, you will be able to do things that you never dreamed of doing.

Now, if you really don't want to use all those wonderful features that are available to you in this complex package, I guess you should have purchased an electric piano or old time organ. Even the newer organs are equally as complex as the high end arranger keyboards, but don't have the ability to do what a mid range arranger keyboard can do.

Take the time to learn the features of your arranger keyboard - you will be amazed at what you can accomplish in just a single day of learning.

Good luck,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline SciNote

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2022, 05:26:53 AM »
Another thing to consider is that Yamaha makes more than just the Genos.  Don't need the complexity of the Genos?  There's the PSR-E473/EW425, SX600, SX700, and SX900 to choose from!  Not to mention digital pianos like the DGX-670 and the various synths that are available.  I use a PSR-E433 (predecessor to the E473), which meets my needs very well.  I pair it with a Roland Gaia synth, and that combo let's me create just about any sound I want!

I do agree that complexity in an instrument can make a keyboardist feel more like a computer programmer than a musician, and I think that's one of the reasons that analog synthesizers, as well as digital synths with analog-style control, have made such a comeback.  Direct control over the sound source (oscillators), sound modifiers (filters), sound shaping (envelope generators), and modulation like vibrato, tremolo, and wah-wah (LFO's) for an intuitive way to create sounds.
Bob
Current: Yamaha PSR-E433 (x2), Roland GAIA SH-01, Casio CDP-200R, Casio MT-68 (wired to bass pedals)
Past: Yamaha PSR-520, PSR-510, PSR-500, DX-7, D-80 home organ, and a few Casios
 

Offline Robert van Weersch

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2022, 07:37:04 AM »
The perception of complexity of a keyboard depends per person. I'm a software engineer myself, and I really like to have options to tweak every digital bit of my instrument. But I also want it to be easily usable during gigs or jam sessions, because at that time, I want to make music and not just turning nobs or pushing buttons. So I can really enjoy spending an entire Sunday afternoon tweaking sound and registrations, but I also love making music with fellow musicians, just using presets I created on said Sunday.
---
Yamaha Tyros 5 76
Korg Liverpool (microArranger)
 

Offline casiokid

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2022, 08:48:37 AM »
At the end of the day, playing a song with a good melody far outweighs the benefit of complicated keyboard features

Online Graham UK

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2022, 09:14:59 AM »
I sold my top of range arranger and purchased the DGX670 which I enjoy just as much.
The saying goes (KISS) KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID...Less can be more.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2022, 09:07:29 AM by Graham UK »
DGX670
 

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2022, 11:56:20 AM »
Hello,

You have to live with the times, not be backward by saying "it was better before" and be aware of your own abilities before making a purchase.

This goes for everything: if I can't drive a Ferrari, I'll buy a simpler engine.

Happy New Year
Christian

Offline DrakeM

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2022, 12:48:06 PM »
Maybe or more likely it’s just me getting old

Exactly, you nailed it. ;D

I have two nephews (brothers) that play music. One plays lead guitar in a rock band, the other is learning the piano. I got together with the one learning the piano last summer and showed him what the PSR-S950 can do at a family get together at a park. I did a full hour gig for everyone each evening.

Afterwards he and I got together back at the cabin alone and I showed him how I worked the keyboard. I explained that the styles I use are ones I created myself. I watched him play around with the keyboard for about 30 minutes trying different styles and voices. He then asked what the cost of the keyboard was. He was done .. that was way out of his range he said.

If you want to perform solo, these kind of keyboards are an artist's dream come true. If you just sit at home and dabble, they are an over kill for sure.

« Last Edit: December 29, 2022, 12:51:28 PM by DrakeM »
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2022, 02:00:00 PM »
Hello Olden,
  At nearly 87 I tend to agree with some of your post but I still like the ability to make a keyboard mine. By that I mean tweak up voices to my liking and not what is given as pre-set. Also do this with styles.
  Then what I do is save these to registrations. I can then sit down and play to my hearts content the things I like and in my case are lucky that others that hear the end product enjoy also.
 
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Offline mikf

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2022, 02:59:31 PM »
The answer is that some people do and some people don’t. You buy what suits your needs,desires and abilities.
Mike
 
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Offline JohnS

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2022, 04:37:31 PM »
I have a Tyros and a Tyros5, and I've played Yamaha keyboards for a long time.

I don't use half of what is there to be used on each keyboard - it's a waste, so I tend to agree with the original post, interpreting it as a cheaper version without the unnecessary bells and whistles would be attractive to me.

Just my opinion (I am not a professional player).
« Last Edit: December 29, 2022, 10:00:56 PM by JohnS »
I have a Tyros5/76 & Tyros4 SE XL.
My keyboard holds every song ever written. I just have to find them.
 

Offline mixermixer

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2022, 04:38:13 PM »
IMO I like the buttons and knobs, it makes it easier to get to sounds and parameters fast. Touchscreen is nice and all but I'm glad the SX900 has buttons and the touchscreen. Personally I feel like the Genos is a step backward in functionality, almost everything is relied on the touchscreen.

Offline mikf

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2022, 04:56:10 PM »
The more functions we want, the more controls we need. And it’s not related to ability, some excellent players like simple as well.
There are plenty of simpler keyboards around, the simplest is a straightforward piano, but then they don’t do everything the Genos does. And there are many choices in-between. But of course no manufacturer can economically tailor every keyboard to exactly what an individual or small group of buyers need, and no more. So they  “bundle”  their designs to cover large numbers of people, and no matter what you buy there is  always going to be either something missing you would really like, or stuff you never use. Just like a smart phone, or iPad, or computer, or even some kitchen appliances. Taking out the functions you don’t really want wouldn’t cost less - it would generally cost more because it becomes a unique device.
Mike
« Last Edit: December 29, 2022, 05:10:22 PM by mikf »
 
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Offline DrakeM

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2022, 05:57:03 PM »
Gary that LINK is Toooooooo funny. But it is really for sale for anyone who deserves it.  ;)

I still don't own a Smart (ash) fone .. just a simple land line with an answering machine. It still get the job done just fine.

Offline mikf

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2022, 06:13:00 PM »
The smart vs dumb phone is a perfect example. If all you ever need is a way to make/receive domestic phone calls, then you don't need a smart phone. But if you need to receive messages, emails etc while on the move or internationally, take photographs, move money, then you need a smart phone. But when you get a smart phone it also does a pile of other things, much of which you might never need, and it's  harder to work through all the function menus. But thats the trade off!
Mike
 
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Offline Oldden

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2022, 01:48:56 PM »
I’ve enjoyed reading the replies, it’s good that we have a choice, assuming that we can afford it. As mentioned in a previous post yamaha make lots of different kinds of instruments not just keyboards, I’ve got two guitars, one of which is acoustic, no amp nothing. The other electronic and I plug it onto an amp with lots of knobs to twiddle, and I love both.

Offline mikf

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2022, 03:23:45 PM »
Interesting that simultaneously with this  post there is another post asking for 13 things to be added to the existing ‘complicated’ keyboards. Can’t please everybody ;D :o
Mike

Offline TiasDad

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2023, 09:37:04 AM »
What I’m saying do we really need so many knobs, sliders, touch screens and the rest to enjoy music.

Do we really need keyboards when we have radios, mp3 players etc to enjoy music? If we have a need to play the music we like, why not keep it simple with a penny whistle or recorder, why the complexity of a keyboard which can play more than one note at a time?

Like all of the arts, music is subjective, some feel the need to dissect it and analyse it whereas some just like to relax and let the feeling it brings, wash over them and transport them away from reality.

Personally, I enjoy replicating the music I like, as close as I can to the original using only what is available at my fingertips. If I can't arrange it to play it live, then I tend not to play it.

Everyone has their own musical journey and it's nice that, that is the case as, if we all thought the same, we'd all soon be bored with the music and each other .. .Happy New Year all :)
« Last Edit: January 01, 2023, 09:42:30 AM by TiasDad »
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2023, 11:40:09 AM »
I agree music means different things to different people. For me I just like to sit at my Genos and play. It is so relaxing and you can just loose all your worries for that time. I also like to set up my favourite instruments and settings before hand. To me that is part of the fun. You just can't beat the feeling of touching those keys and playing your favourite music.
 
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Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2023, 04:55:19 PM »
Some of those knobs replace the musicians I had the pleasure to work with in bygone years. My piano playing always improved when I heard my favorite bass player next to me. But, he's gone and now I can twirl a knob. Unfortunately, a knob can't grin back at  you when you are flying in formation.
Happy New Year, all,

Strideplayer

Offline J. Larry

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2023, 06:39:25 PM »
For me, Yamaha arrangers are all about the styles to create backing tracks for live play, guitar/vocals in my case.  Never crack a manual.  No interest in digging deep.  Six gigs last week with SX 900 tracks.  Also, much use with Band In A Box, but much prefer Yamaha-created tracks. 
 

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2023, 04:13:04 PM »
I've had one-on-one discussions with various Yamaha synth marketing people. They would actually agree with you! Many musicians -- potential customers -- are apprehensive or turned-off by the apparent complexity of modern keyboards, synths and arranger keyboards alike. A potential customer sees all of those buttons, etc. in the store and walks away baffled -- and a sale is lost.
Along the same lines, I think it's interesting that probably the biggest difference between the Korg Kronos and its replacement Nautilus is that they took away almost all the knobs, buttons, and sliders, making it look less intimidating. It doesn't matter that you could use the Kronos and never touch those extra controls and still do almost anything you could do on the Nautilus... just their visual presence alone makes the board seem more complicated. While I'm sure the elimination of controls was also a way to cut costs, I would not be at all surprised if they also felt that it would be an advantage in preventing potential customers from walking away baffled.

but are we becoming just knob twirler's instead of musicians.
This also relates to why I am more excited by the SA2 of the Genos than the original SA or the equivalent alternate articulation buttons of the Montage/MODX. I pretty much never use articulation buttons. For one thing, I can't remember what they do. ;-) (They should have small displays like those above the Genos sliders, to always indicate what will happen when you use them!) But also, to me, using articulation buttons somehow also makes it feel more like you're operating a computer than playing an instrument. The fact that SA2 does more stuff automatically, introducing an articulation simply based on how you're playing rather than needing to be invoked with a button, makes SA2 much more appealing.

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2023, 06:19:18 AM »
With Artificial Intelligence, we can expect user interfaces to be simplified in the next years by learning automatically the way one uses the instrument.
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2023, 06:58:48 PM »
Whether or not the customer is turned off by all those buttons and menus is dependent upon the store and those who are employed by them. The store I frequented the most was Music land in Bel Air, Maryland, where the owner (recently deceased) knew the keyboard's features inside and out. When a customer showed any interest, he was right there to show them as many of the features and how they worked as possible. This often resulted in a sale to that person.

Ironically, one of the big box music stores, GC, didn't have anyone knowledgeable about arranger keyboards or their operation. In fact, most of them didn't know how to turn  it on, let alone explore the features, and they didn't want to take the time or make an effort to learn. They primarily wanted to sell guitars and amps, where they could make a quick buck and get to the next customer. If you wanted someone to demo an arranger keyboard at GC, you would be hard pressed to find someone.

Washington Music, located in Rockville, Maryland, has an entire section of their store dedicated to arranger keyboards and synths. And, the person that mans that building, which is separate from the main store, is an older gentleman who knows the OS and features of every arranger keyboard and synth they have, which is a huge number. When a new model arrives, he spends days on end learning everything there is to know about the device. Their arranger keyboard and synth sales are second to none in the entire nation. And, they usually charge full retail price, and have no trouble getting it. They provide all the technical help anyone needs at no extra charge.

Just my point of view,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2023, 07:34:18 PM »
one of the big box music stores, GC, didn't have anyone knowledgeable about arranger keyboards or their operation. In fact, most of them didn't know how to turn  it on, let alone explore the features, and they didn't want to take the time or make an effort to learn.
I wonder whether the manufacturer/reps provide any training on new products. I remember going to GC to check out the Roland Fantom a few years ago, and I couldn't figure out how to just set it to a piano sound. So I called over a salesperson, he couldn't figure it out either. Ultimately, his solution was to turn it off and turn it on again.

Offline EileenL

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2023, 11:08:41 PM »
Yamaha UK do run instructional days for all there Dealers when a new flag ship is released.

Offline travlin-easy

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2023, 11:45:40 PM »
Not here in the US, Eileen.

Gary  8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2023, 09:36:29 AM »
Just thought I would add my thoughts to this subject. I haven't posted on this site for some time. I have a PSR 775 which I play at home for my own enjoyment (single finger chords) and did ask the question on this site if anyone actually uses all the functions on their keyboard.
I am actually a drummer having played many different types of music for over 50 years. Drums like keyboards have progressed and become more complicated with mostly positive results. Look at guitars. They haven't change much over the years if at all, but look on the stage floor and see the array of effects pedals. I recall a lead guitarist turning up at rehearsal back in the 60's with a "Wah Wah"pedal. Oh, the excitiement! Back to drums. Quality and sound projection of acoustic kits has improved and also electronic kits are now common. Something I said I would have nothing to do with. However, I now have a Roland VDrum electronic kit which I use for gigs. Using this I have access to around 100 different kit sounds, and the ability to alter the characteristic of each individual kit. Do I use all these. Absolutely not. I don't know how to. Now we have electronic kit brains combined with acoustic kits, known as hybrid kits. It's called progress. Though I still love playing along to acoustic guitars on my cajun box.
    So are all thoser knobs and sliders, touch screen etc required. Yes. You don't have to use them all, though. I certainly don't. I don't understand them. I'm just a drummer trying to be a "proper musician" :D
    Finally, is there anyone that uses every facility on their keyboard?
Lonely Flower
PSR-S775
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2023, 10:31:21 AM »
Hello Lonely,
To answer the question first: yes, some are using (almost) all features in their keyboards or are at least know how to use them. But does it matter? Not necessary.

Main attribute of an arranger keyboard is the possibility to create & customize accompaniments (styles) -a possibility for a player to become "authentic" one man band. But that's not for everybody the main reason why they decide for such keyboard: it might be because of better sound, bigger display, possibility to install additional voices & styles, etc... and that's ok. At the end it all about enjoying our hobby.

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline Divemaster

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2023, 10:50:52 AM »
The present day keyboards are wonderful, and I think back to when I too used to rattle out a few songs on an old, badly tuned piano in a pub that I used to frequent. I also remember one evening when two of us were jamming on two pianos, and a rather inebriated clown shouted "Rubbish".  My friend got up, grabbed him, sat him down at his piano, and said "Do Better"...........To complete ridicule, the man left the pub shortly afterwards, being unable to play anything at all.....A good lesson there.

Playing is the main thing. Just enjoy playing it, and use only the knobs and buttons that you find useful. There's no need to ram your brain full of elements of the keyboard that you don't use, will never need, and can't get your head round.

My own particular bugbear is with music scores. Why some composers write them with 5 flats or 5 sharps I know not, but I completely avoid such music. It's way too complicated for my old head to comprehend. I can play many many chords and read music, but my old music teacher I think had a point when he said that the more complicated the music was, the more the composer was trying to show off HIS expertise, whilst making it totally indecipherable to most players.

So enjoy whatever keyboard you have , and play it. the rest is theoretical.
Korg  PA5X
I also play a Yamaha PSR-SX700
I also own a Technics SX-PR900 Digital Ensemble Piano
Lenovo M10 Android tablet with Lekato page turner
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2023, 11:02:27 AM »
Hey Eileen :

It is not the first time we hear Yamaha UK are offering their customers and endusers such an excellent after sales service.  :)
IMHO Yamaha's UK office is the only export division that gives this kind of service, am I right ?
The Yamaha UK customers are the lucky ones. ;)

Regards, JH



« Last Edit: January 27, 2023, 11:11:32 AM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Offline Duffy

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2023, 11:12:31 AM »
It  depends what we mean by complicated.
Any arranger can be played in a simple manner or you can set up to be another symphony  orchestra with numerous splits etc..
I like loads of buttons, sliders and knobs and will use them all at some time or other.
I truly prefer buttons etc. to touch screens but that's just my preference and each to his own.
One thing I do NOT want is artificial intelligence bringing to keyboards.
When I play, I know exactly what I want it to sound like and we don't want keyboards thinking they know better.
I have to stop my smart TV from accessing the internet and asking questions because I will always decide what I choose to do next.
Smart usually turns out to be stupid.

Offline EileenL

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2023, 12:03:32 PM »
The keyboards today contain everything certain people want. The beauty is you choose what you want to use and you make your keyboard your own by arranging how you want a style to sound and how you want your voices to sound. We all hear things differently. If we don't think a certain voice sounds like we are used to then we can tweak it to our own liking.
  The thing is the choice is there if we want it. That is what an arranger keyboard is all about.
 
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Offline Duurduur

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2023, 12:09:36 PM »
Let me shed some light on this subject. I like challenges from time to time and with an arranger keyboard I have no shortage of those. Just trying out all the possibilities gives me so much satisfaction when I succeeded again. And keep the brain cells in good condition. And if I can't figure it out myself, we have this forum with such nice people. And that's what it's all about for me and many others, right?
Yamaha PSR-SX900
Yamaha PSR E463
Logitech Z623 Speakersystem
 
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Offline kiplis

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2023, 12:20:41 PM »
I know, this issue shouldn't even be brought up, but I wonder why Yamaha instruments can't talk with  (PC) computer?
Everyone has a lot of computing power on their desk, and it would be so much easier to process data on a PC-UI, and
use the workstation mainly to play music. But no, Yamaha can't think of interfaces for PC, they only have a rather modest
attempt for IOS operating systems...
By interfacing to PC, the keyboard could be quite simple (and cheaper), while the actual computing and tweaking would
be done on a computer. It would require just one interface to PC... Is that so hard?

-Kiplis-

Offline DrakeM

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2023, 12:45:57 PM »
The keyboard contains more voice choices than I would ever use. Who uses all those different string sounds? Pick one and be done. 

But just last month I used a voice I thought I would never need "Tremolo Strings".
If you are doing "You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin'" you need "Tremolo Strings".
Yamaha is way ahead of me in knowing what I am going to need.  8)

If I live long enough, I'll get around to needing 90% of what is included at some point.  ;D

Drake

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2023, 01:04:56 PM »
I know, this issue shouldn't even be brought up, but I wonder why Yamaha instruments can't talk with  (PC) computer?
Everyone has a lot of computing power on their desk, and it would be so much easier to process data on a PC-UI, and
use the workstation mainly to play music. But no, Yamaha can't think of interfaces for PC, they only have a rather modest
attempt for IOS operating systems...
By interfacing to PC, the keyboard could be quite simple (and cheaper), while the actual computing and tweaking would
be done on a computer. It would require just one interface to PC... Is that so hard?

-Kiplis-

I disagree with this for several reasons.

Firstly desktop and even laptop ownership has dwindled due to the rise of smartphones and tablets, so Yamaha would need to make apps for Mac, Windows, iOS and Android and then keep all 4 up to date. In the future when development on these apps is eventually abandoned your arranger could be useless. Changes in chipsets over time causes big headaches with compatibility, see the Mac silicon stuff etc.

I think at best we could see a supportive app, that could do everything an arranger can do but isn't needed.
NEEDING an app would restrict a live performer in some ways and some would probably prefer integration with MainStage over a dedicated app even if they would be willing to take their whole computer kit along with their arranger to a performance.

Regardless, a supportive app certainly wouldn't be cheaper to develop or for the end user to buy over just not bothering with this approach since it just causes more problems than fixes anything I reckon.

For example does anyone still use the app that was developed for the Roland Integra-7? I bet it's been abandoned and forgotten about quite a bit. That was only ever on iPad I believe, not Android.

« Last Edit: January 27, 2023, 01:10:36 PM by AndrewKeyz »
Without Music, Life would be a Mistake.

Check out my Genos recordings & performances: http://www.youtube.com/andrewkeyz
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2023, 01:40:54 PM »
Hi Kiplis,
Maybe I don't understand your question correctly, but keyboard can be connected to PC via MIDI connection and controlled with DAW software. Of course not everything can be controlled... because it doesn't make sense. For example, when we play and wish to quickly change some setting while playing, we wish to have interface on keyboard. The main idea of arranger keyboard is to be self sufficient.

If we take that "all-in-one" characteristic from arranger keyboard, then keyboard becomes a MIDI keyboard. Now.. MIDI keyboards are much cheaper for sure, but not easier to use.

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline Duffy

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #45 on: January 27, 2023, 02:53:47 PM »
I know, this issue shouldn't even be brought up, but I wonder why Yamaha instruments can't talk with  (PC) computer?
Everyone has a lot of computing power on their desk, and it would be so much easier to process data on a PC-UI, and
use the workstation mainly to play music. But no, Yamaha can't think of interfaces for PC, they only have a rather modest
attempt for IOS operating systems...
By interfacing to PC, the keyboard could be quite simple (and cheaper), while the actual computing and tweaking would
be done on a computer. It would require just one interface to PC... Is that so hard?

-Kiplis-

I also disagree Kiplis.
I want to keep my arranger as far away as possible from my computer.
Imagine getting that usual Windows message when working with a keyboard file  "You do not have permission to change or delete this file".
I always think "Who does this computer belong to then"?.
Don't want that happening on keyboards too.
Also don't want another update every time I switch my keyboard on.

Offline mikf

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #46 on: January 27, 2023, 03:58:39 PM »
I think the average arranger buyer probably has a similar view to Duffy. I  don't have a computer even in the same room as my musical instruments.
The arranger has a lot of embedded technology, and I can’t completely avoid interfacing with it, but I want it to be as invisible as possible.
Mike
 

Offline kiplis

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #47 on: January 27, 2023, 05:27:59 PM »
"I know, this issue shouldn't even be brought up, but I wonder why Yamaha instruments can't talk with  (PC) computer? "

I told you so  ;D ;D ;D, FAX is not the thing for the future any more....


Offline adrianed

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #48 on: January 27, 2023, 09:05:31 PM »
Divemaster,
I like your comments about printers and composers making sheet music more complicated by using many flats or sharps ie lifting the pitch higher or lower
It would help many starters if the music was written with the sharps and flats written in where they occur every time they occur
Obviously it can’t be done with all kinds of music
I am not proposing changing the present method of indicating the scale at the beginning of the score
I started trying to write them in but could not write small enough
Adrian


Offline mikf

Re: Do we really need complicated keyboards
« Reply #49 on: January 27, 2023, 10:32:19 PM »
It would help many starters if the music was written with the sharps and flats written in where they occur every time they occur …………………….
I started trying to write them in but could not write small enough
Adrian

Adrian  - I would say you found out pretty quickly why they use key signatures and don't write in sharps and flats where they occur  :)
Mike
 
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