Topic: Change CHORD (playing style) via MIDID -from notes in a DW??? PLS, pls...

[SX700-MIDI]

PLS, does anybody have a way to change the chord playing in the autoacompaniment via MIDI?

As an example:
I want to ply C-Am-F-G during a certain number of bars, repetitions, etc...
So i have a MIDI File from the SX700 open in Cubase (or else) I go to the CHORD DATA track and can see the notes even in the PIANO ROLL view.
So I would guess I just had to change the notes and they would change the chords... BUT, no sir, as far as I have tried , no way even though I can even hear notes when pressing key/cells in the track.

This would would be most useful to create loop, composition tests, etc. in the ACMP while testing melodies and I remember it was quite possible with a Roland E series (early 2K) and even an ATARI computer

THANKS everyone for any help

[MillKa]

The SX900 has the Chord-Looper function built-in, but not the SX700 (see page 60 of the Owners Manual) 

To send chord data into the SX700/900 from an external device,
see page 125 of the Reference Manual: Chord Detect—Settings for Chords used in Style Playback via MIDI

[rikkisbears]

Hi,
I’m not aware that it can be done in a daw. I used to do it in Band in a Box software, haven’t tried doing it in years, though I could check to see if function still exists. Ie I had my pa800 arranger connected to laptop/band in a box. I’d put in my chord progression in BIAB,  and it would trigger the chords on my pa800, think I even tried it with my psr1500.. This function was designed for triggering chords in Roland RA arrangers. I’m pretty sure I used it back then too.
Vaguely remember being able to mute tracks on pa800 ie drums for instance and use the real drum tracks from Biab, or mute a strumming guitar track and find a suitable real track version in biab.  It was a lot fun.  Big time waster though. Haha
It was great for practicing melody and auditioning styles.

There’s also JosMaas  one man band chord player , that one I did try a long time ago, but , can’t remember how successful it was as I preferred using Biab.

https://www.1manband.nl/chordplayer/index.htm

[SX700-MIDI]

Yep, my friend...
I believe you were doing just the same as me but with BiB instead of Cubase.
The method was simple and the same.
Input notes that would trigger the CHORD.
But... it doesn't look so easy in the sx700
MANY THANKS

[vlbrgt]

Are you trying to play the chords from the DAW to the PSRSX700 ?
And these chords are available as notes (3 or 4 notes for a chord) ?

If yes than I think you should look at your PSRSX700 in the MENU 2 -> MIDI -> CHORD DETECT
As the chord notes from the DAW are send on a specific channel from the DAW to the keyboard, you should select in the Chord Detect window on your PSRSX700 the corrcet Port and Channel to make the keyboard follow the chords from your DAW.
Be sure that ACMP and Sync Start are active (ON).

I do not own a PSRSX700 but I think it should work.
On my Genos this is possible.

Regards
Etienne

[vlbrgt]

PS
When I want to play a midi file from my PC to the keyboard, and I need the chords to be played, I insert the chords as sysex commands into my midi file.
I don't know if that could be easily done in a DAW.
But I use my program MixMaster for that purpose. Sysex chords can easily be inserted in MixMaster.
Once my midi file is ready I play it with XGWorks. This program has a much better synchronisation between PC and Genos.

Regards
Etienne

[MillKa]

If you want to send chords as a group of MIDI NoteOn events, their note numbers should be in the chord detection range.
See Owner Manual, page 45, Split Point, Chord Section.

And then there is another way to send chords via SysEx (System Exclusive) messages.
See Data List Manual, page 116, Chord Control.
To use that second method, MIDI System Settings / Chord System Exclusive Message - Receive must be ON.
See Reference Manual, page 122.

[rikkisbears]

Yep, my friend...
I believe you were doing just the same as me but with BiB instead of Cubase.
The method was simple and the same.
Input notes that would trigger the CHORD.
But... it doesn't look so easy in the sx700
MANY THANKS

Hi,  If it’s worked before, just a case of getting settings correct  I would imagine.

Actually I missed the fact that you’re actually triggering it from notes, mine played from the chord symbols themselves, ie I just needed to type in the chord symbols and it would trigger the  chords from the symbols.
Very quick process typing in symbols. Haha. Let us know how you go.

[pjd]

As other folks have mentioned, Yamaha have two ways of representing chord name and type information in MIDI: the Yamaha Meta Event Chord Name and the Yamaha System Exclusive (SysEx) Chord Control message. These are specified on pages 116 and 120 (respectively) in the SX900/SX700 Data List PDF.

The SysEx message can be used in a Standard MIDI File (SMF) and can be transmitted over MIDI. The Meta Event may only be used in a Standard MIDI File because Meta Events are defined and valid only within the context of an SMF. The Meta Event is part of the Yamaha XF standard. The MIDI file containing chord Meta Events must be played on the arranger itself; it cannot be played back by a DAW and transmitted over MIDI.

The Cubase manual claims to support the Meta Event form, but I have never successfully gotten Cubase to edit such events.

Here are links to a few of my posts that illustrate ways of using and creating chord events:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/chord-tracker-revealed/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/chordpro-auto-accompaniment-midi-messages/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/step-edit-chord-looper/

Hope this information helps -- pj

[SX700-MIDI]

A REAL BIG THANKS to everyone helping
I'm going bananas reading the manual, data sheet, reference, ....
Even the MIDI Implementation Sheet (I could reead those like a poem, i don't seem to understand a thing now)

It all would come down to see if anyone could post one or two 2example messages -if Sysex- Icann't understand those now.

I will try to add explanation (really, believe this would help many others in composing, editing and "having a good time")

Set all parameters in the 700
  What would need to be set exactly, pl? System receive, chord detect', what channels?

In a Daw just enter a sequence of chords in a MIDI track.
Pair them to same parameters
Play the track and the style that was playing (even manually,) will recognize different chord notes, triads or more and follow.
THANKS, THANKS, THANKS
GREAT HELP

[vlbrgt]

To fully understand what midi is and what you can do with midi :
What are the different commands in a midi file : Controllers, Note ON/OFF, Meta events, Sysex events, RPN, NRPN ....
How is midi send from PC (DAW) to a midi device ?

Please search on the internet about midi. There is a lot of documentation available.

You own a Yamaha PSRSX700. The program that I maintain is MixMaster and can be downloaded for free on the psrtutorial website.
It is made for the Yamaha keyboards like PSRS, PSRSX and Tyros/Genos series.
https://psrtutorial.com/MB/EV_Files/mixmaster.html
It can show you all the midi events that are in a midi file.
Perhaps that is also possible in a DAW, I don't know (I don't use any DAW).

A few years ago I had a Roland BK7M, and I think to remember that Roland does not work with Meta and/or Sysex chords.
Roland makes use of a chord channel for sending the chords (chord notes).

Regards
Etienne

[vlbrgt]

It all would come down to see if anyone could post one or two 2example messages -if Sysex- Icann't understand those now.

Perhaps you should send us a midi file you have made in Cubase, including the chords as you have created them.
It will give us the possibility to try it on our keyboards.
Doing so we could perhaps give you more detailled information.

Regards
Etienne

[SX700-MIDI]

Good idea...
I am going to sort out one simple .MID and post it ASAP
THANKS

[SX700-MIDI]

Sorry I couldn't send message. (health problem, I'm afraid)
Well I have look in to a MIDI file and unless I posted in a video link, I can't see that it would help much.

I think i might have confused the hole thing a bit.
It all comes down to:
How to CONTROL the sx700 from a external MIDI ... be a PC, another keyboard...

Can you play the chord from an external keyboard while a style is running?

I think the problem is in the MIDI settings in the 700.
Or perhaps as someone mentioned, it only accepts chord changes via Sysex messages (sounds a bit crazy... but it might b so)

[SX700-MIDI]

It was SO SIMP?LE in the old Roland:
In any DAW,
insert some chords in a MIDI track,
configure the channel to match he LOWER
Configure MIDI start/Stop + MIDI CLOCK in both

Select style in the keyboard + Sync Start
Play the DAW and it would follow tempo + chords as simple as that.

THANKS to everyone for your HELP!!

[vlbrgt]

It is simple too with a PSRSX700.
As you mentioned you need to set the receive channel for the chords to the correct channel.

On what channel does the DAW sends it chord notes to the keyboard ?
If you know that, you set the receive channel on the PSRSX700 the same, and it will work.

The reason I asked for a midi file that you made in the DAW, was to see on which channel the DAW is sending the chord notes.

Regards
Etienne
 

[overover]

Hi SX700-MIDI,

It's really not difficult to control the SX700's automatic accompaniment via a chord note track of a MIDI file played in the DAW on the PC.

I would use here the USB-MIDI connection, i.e. connect the USB-to-Host terminal of the SX700 to the PC via a USB type AB cable ("printer cable"). The Yamaha USB-MIDI Driver must be installed on the PC (V4.3.1 x64 for Windows10 64-bit).

First set the preset MIDI template "All Parts" on the SX700. The USB-MIDI Driver provides two MIDI Receive ports, called "Digital Workstation 1" (= Port 1) and "Digital Workstation 2" (= Port 2). Normally you set "Digital Workstation 1" as MIDI Output port for all tracks of your MIDI file in the DAW. This will address the SX700's SONG parts and the MIDI file can be played back normally through the SX700's tone generator. Deviating from this, you set "Digital Workstation 2" as the MIDI Output port for the Chord track with which you want to control the STYLE of the SX700. As already mentioned, this will address MIDI port 2 of the SX700.

Method 1:
When using the mentioned standard MIDI template "All Parts", the MIDI channel 1 of port 2 is automatically set to the part "Keyboard". So make sure your chord track in the DAW transmits on MIDI Channel 1 @Port 2 (Digital Workstation 2) to control the style. Caution: ACMP must be switched on on the SX700, and in this case the result depends on the SPLIT POINT set. The chord notes must therefore be transmitted by the DAW in the correct octave position so that the Style Control keyboard range set on the SX700 is controlled (C1 - F#2 by default).

Method 2:
I recommend the following second option. The advantage is that the chord notes can be transmitted in any octave position, i.e. all chord notes are always recognized, regardless of the currently set split point: Go to the SX700 MIDI Settings ("All Parts" template is checked) and in the "Chord Detect" tab tick the box for MIDI Channel 16 @Port 2. Save these MIDI settings to a meaningful filename and then make sure the newly saved User MIDI template is actually ENABLED (instead of the previous "All Parts" template).

For the Chord Track in the DAW, you now set MIDI Channel 16 @Port 2 (Digital Workstation 2) accordingly, and the style control now works independently of the Split Point set on the SX700.

P.S.
If necessary, you can set the MIDI CLOCK to EXTERNAL in the SX700 MIDI settings. Then the SX700 is completely controlled by the DAW.


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

[SX700-MIDI]

Thanks Etienne
Exactly what i thought it would be.

I have tried to change the track channel 16 times... that is, 16 channels!
I have set the sx700 to receive in every way I could try, BUT... it takes me some heavy "thought" cause I don't get it right (I think)
In the MIDI RECEIVE section of the Menu there are options for each port and channel:
Off
Song
Right 1, Right , Right 3

Left
Keyboard (this one I don't get it... ALL keyboard functions???)
Style Rytm 1 + 2 (these are obviously for drums, can't be chords)
Style Bass
Style chord1 , Style chords 2 (I thought I got it: THESE are the ones... NO luck)
Style Pad
Style Phrase1 +2
Extra parts - 1 o 5

I have worked with MIDI quite a it and MANY devices and use it since it came out CENTURIES ago"" (not to say I'm a genius or anything like) so I thought I would have no problem matching both devices (computer, keyboard, controller... TO 700) but it has proved TOO BIG for my boots)

If I get it right one day.. I will take the time o make a video with all steps, explaining things and THANKING all of you guys answering and helping me here.
You really are INCREDIBLE!!!!
I take my hat off!!!
Happy New YEAR

[overover]

Hi SX700-MIDI,

On the channel / port that is set to the "Keyboard" part in MIDI > RECEIVE, you can control the SX700 exactly as you would with the internal keyboard. Depending on the set Split Points you can control the STYLE as well as LEFT and RIGHT voices on this channel / port.

Alternatively, you can define a channel / port in the CHORD DETECT tab that is used exclusively for style control via MIDI notes (regardless of the currently set Style Split Point).

In addition, the style can be controlled via XF Chord Meta Events in locally (!) played MIDI files or via SysEx Chord messages. I am not aware of any other options.


Best regards,
Chris

[SX700-MIDI]

THANKS, THANKS, MANY THANKS to all but particularly to Chris "overover" (Pls, I repeat: THANKS to EVERYONE)
That's just what i need it!!!
I got it to change the style chords in 30 seconds!!
Would have taken me a long time to think about the "PORT 2, channel 16 : CHORD DETECT"
I don't know how Chris got it but HE DID!!!

Now with OPTION 2, I set the notes in the DAW to volume 1 or 0, cause I don't need nor want them to be heard as notes...

Will test and play around with the synchronizing the clock.
It would be good to control the start/stop and BPM with the DAW, however, the important thing is over.
THANKS again Chris!!

[SX700-MIDI]

Thanks Chris
I will test the "KEYBOARD > MIDI > RECEIVE " as well

happy New Year

[overover]

Thank you for your kind feedback, SX700-MIDI!

By the way, normally you don't need to change the Velocity of the Chord notes, because they don't produce any sound on the SX700 on the channel / port defined in CHORD DETECT anyway.

Even if you use the method for controlling the style via the "Keybord" part, you can simply switch off the LEFT part via the corresponding PART ON/OFF button if you don't want the chord notes to produce any sound. Or you move the LEFT Split Point to a higher note so that the LEFT keyboard range is between the Style Control and Right range.


Best regards,
Chris

[SX700-MIDI]

Some how, the notes did sound even when set to port 2, channel 16.
i tested with low ones -C 1 ++ - and the sound obviously, horrible.

I get different result with different triads + of same chord. It follows even just ONE note as 700 is set to 1 fingered. Good.
I'll explore further in for complex chords and see how it behaves.
I mainly want to use the 700 for composition...
some times is great for quick drat ideas of combination. it saves time and I think, it might even inspire new things. Who knows, might come up with a top 40 master piece. LOL!!!!

I'm trying the tempo, STArT Sync but don't get it as yet.
DAW set to transmit START/STOP (even added MTM) > to Digital keyboard 2 (Port 2 as you mentioned for chords)

Ps: The must be a way to control even the START -without need for setting SYNC START manually) and I suppose, MOSTLY every thing or 99% via MIDI. probably that would need System Exclusive messages written y hand in the DAW, not an easy or quick job if I remember right.
use to write/dumps for old (MAGIC) synths, guitar pedals + others, even stage lights.
THANKS again

[overover]

Hi SX700-MIDI,

The "Start/Stop" parameter in "MIDI Settings > System tab" determines whether incoming FA (start) and FC (stop) MIDI realtime messages affect Song or Style play-
back. Please also refer to page 122 in the SX700 Reference Manual.

Regarding the fact that the MIDI notes sent to Chord Detect via port 2 / channel 16 also produce a SOUND: Go to "MIDI > Receive", scroll all the way down there and make sure that port 2 / channel 16 is set to OFF. Otherwise, these notes are played back by the part set there.


Best regards,
Chris

[SX700-MIDI]

The START/STOP is giving me a little "more work" I have follow your instructions but not working so far.
NO so important to me right now, I'm not playing live and can press the SYNC START in 700, no problem.

The notes still sound (in Port 2) but again, just a matter of changing volume or velocity.
I got the main thing I wanted and I can load sequences made, delete all tracks except chord ones, maybe change / del / add some notes and styles follow suit: MAGIC!!!
Mainly THAT's all I needed and looked for.

I guess by reading (you are Chris Easdown, right?) you really know Yamaha and probably HAVE meddle with MIDI so... I bet you can do "MIRACLES" with it.

In my "time" 'fore illness I could do things and I DID so I think and right about you.
I´m Spanish but I was in Scotland for donkey's years and round the World as a Volunteer and musician. We saw MIDI's birth !!
Started with an Atari Cubase and Logic. B&W boom!!!
Just cause it was hard to explain what I wanted to accompany me with the guitar. Even for percussion.

I have messed with just about EVERY MIDI guitar and related devices that have seen the light. NO one is near 70% (

I played guitar and go together a Flamenco TABLAO. Played all over UK, never left Edinburgh, though. Even so, London paid 5/10 times more!!

Sorry to bore you people, went off the topic!!!

Best regards.

[overover]

Off topic

Hi SX700-MIDI,

No, I'm NOT Chris Easdown.
>>> https://psrtutorial.com/perf/chrisEasdown.html

I live in Germany and have been active in the German Yamaha  keyboard forum since the launch of Tyros4. Unfortunately, this forum, which was operated directly by Yamaha Music Germany, was closed a few years ago. Since then I've been active here in the PSR Tutorial Forum.

Up until a few years ago, I occasionally had closer contact with Yamaha Music Europe and thus also with the Japanese Tyros and Genos development team. Unfortunately, "the Japanese" have not yet implemented many of the ideas and suggestions that German "power users" like me gave them back then ...

I made my first experiences with MIDI on an Atari ST with the Emagic Notator program. Then I worked for many years on an Apple PowerMac 7500 with Emagic MicroLogic and later on a Windows PC with Emagic Logic, among other things, which I still use occasionally today.


Best regards,
Chris

[SX700-MIDI]

Great Chris
Obviously a lot of experience and inside knowledge of Yamaha.

Thanks for helping.
I haven't had or played "AUTARRANGER" keyboards for quite a long time.
Playing guitar, singing and some Synth and percussion.

Force to give up everything due to "serious" health problems, now, I am trying to enjoy the 700 and use it for some composing.
I change almost everything in the DAW using sounds from samplers such as KONTAKT and many more VSTi
I just do it for my self now... no more "pressure from agents, record company, etc...) Is a good feeling even though most of it is probably rubbish (or maybe, not... )
 
I had  Yamaha DX7 for years Korg M1 Prophet-5 Roland Juno ... Mainly the old faithful standards, you know... Great times.
Thanks and best regards

[SX700-MIDI]

Just to add to progress (made by me, of course... Surely others are miles ahead)

Got sx700 to follow and respond from DAW (Cubase, Ableton, SONAR, FL)
Chords... No quite there as yet. Have to get to grips with PITCH of notes and more than 2/3 notes in one finger mode. I mean what notes trigger suspended, augmented ++ chords

Got the DAW to control START - STOP +TEMPO (bpm)  MAGIC!!!

Would be nice to get to send VARIATION in real time. I guess that will be SYSEX messages and probably more difficult  / complex to sort out.

For the time being, i'm quite happy, THANKS to the great people of THIS FORUM == THANKS again.

[andres_fprado]

Got sx700 to follow and respond from DAW (Cubase, Ableton, SONAR, FL)
Chords... No quite there as yet. Have to get to grips with PITCH of notes and more than 2/3 notes in one finger mode. I mean what notes trigger suspended, augmented ++ chords

In one-finger mode, you are limited to only M, m, M7 and m7 chords. To get access to the full gamut of chords, use either "Multi Finger", "Fingered" or "Fingered On Bass" modes. Differences are:

• "Multi Finger" mode recognizes chords with the single-finger style, as well as multi-finger style.
• "Fingered" mode recognizes all chords, but they must be played in full (no single-fingering shortcuts)
• "Fingered On Bass" mode recognizes all chords, and additionally uses the lowest note as the bass. This allows for chords like C/E.

On Page 8 of the PSR-SX900/SX700 Reference Manual you can find the complete description of the different modes, and on page 9 you will find all the recognized chords, as well as the fingerings to use for each of them (shown for C chords). You can also use the Chord Tutor on the keyboard (see page 10 of the aforementioned manual) to find the fingering = notes to play for any chord based on any root you might desire!

To change the Variation (section) for the style, you need indeed to send a SYSEX message, more specifically, the "Section Control" SYSEX, whiche is: F0 43 7E 00 ss dd F7, where ss selects the section (00 = INTRO1, 01 = INTRO2, 02 = INTRO3, 03 = INTRO4, 08 = MAIN A, 09 = MAIN B, 0a = MAIN C, 0b = MAIN D, 10 = FILL IN A, 11 = FILL IN B, 12 = FILL IN C, 13 = FILL IN D, 18 = BREAK, 20 = ENDING 1, 21 = ENDING 2, 22 = ENDING 3, 23 = ENDING 4) and dd is a switch for the accompaniment (00 = OFF, 7f = ON).

You can find this, as well as other SYSEX messages for controlling tempo and chords, on page 116 of the PSR-SX900/SX700 Data List.

Regards!

[SX700-MIDI]

THANKS very much, Andres
I'll give a try to all that.

Sorry for being too lazy, I didn't read the whole manual yet (It's a bit hard due to my health problems).
Your instructions will save me a LOT of time. THANK YOU!!!!

[SX700-MIDI]

By the way, in case anyone is interested and havent got used to any DAW yet:
CUBASE 12 seems to be the best to send all kind of chords, realtime START /STOP, even without pressing SYNC START + controlling TEMPO (bpm)
Maybe, not the easiest to find all the commands needed but for now, the best one.
SONAR very simple but somehow not so reliable.

others like FL "time taken" not so easy to set things up.