Author Topic: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong  (Read 2745 times)

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madirv

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LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« on: December 09, 2022, 09:17:12 AM »
Hi everyone,
I've been encouraged by responses from my previous, and first post, to ask any questions however simple ---so here goes!!
When I set up a song/tune I decide the style, voice, volume  etc and then save it to the registration memory under say no.1.  Then i select a variation of either/both the style and the voices and then save that to no.2 and so on.  So when I play I am always changing the sounds with my right hand via these buttons.
I have watched numerous youtube videos and the performers always seem to be pressing buttons on the left which seems to me to be the variation buttons only but this only produces the slight change in the rhythm style.  Am I doing something wrong?
I realise if the OTS is on that would change the voices but the result seems usually horrific to me but then Im not keen on the built in OTS settings.
Hope I am making sense here.
Thank you in advance for any responses
Irene
 

Offline XeeniX

Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2022, 10:15:36 AM »
Hi Irene,

If you press only that memory button which you use to store your registrations with you should get the registrations memory contents screen. You can choose which data should be saved. For example you can enable or disable things like voice or multipads etc. which would allow you to choose to store any voice setting you prefer in that registration. When you later on press that registratin button it will pick the voices etc you have chosen no matter if you have OTS on or off.

There is a nice lesson/workshop on this website by Joe Waters that explains how to use and create registrations as well. You can find it at this link: https://psrtutorial.com/lessons/playing/regist/index.html

Not entirely sure if this is what you were asking but people who are more specialised in this matter will probably chip in too :)
Peter
« Last Edit: December 09, 2022, 10:20:05 AM by XeeniX »
 

madirv

  • Guest
Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2022, 10:26:19 AM »
Thanks Peter.  I think I know the screen you mean---long list of things--I always press "save all" or something but not quite what i meant.  It seems to me as though when experienced players play they do a lot of swopping about and button pressing on the left side of the keyboard which seems to me that it is mostly the variations they are pressing and not the memory buttons which made me wonder if I'm doing this all wrong and what is it that they are pressing  ????;D ;D
Ill have another look at the page you mention ---I think I read this when I first started---may not have understood it then but time brings experience :D :D :D :D

Offline BogdanH

Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2022, 10:58:42 AM »
..
I have watched numerous youtube videos and the performers always seem to be pressing buttons on the left which seems to me to be the variation buttons only but this only produces the slight change in the rhythm style.
...
The amount of changes that variation buttons make, is defined in the style itself. For each style variation you can define what instruments (voices) will be used, how loud they should be, etc. Everything you see in Mixer/Style screen, can be saved into style itself. Additionally, you can also define which voices (L, R1, R2) you wish to be used in particular style variation. That is, whatever you see in Mixer/Panel screen can be saved into OTS, which again, is saved into style. In short: everything what we hear when playing music, can be (and should be, in my opinion) defined inside style -registrations are not needed for that.

I can see, that many are using registrations even for relative "simple" songs. The reason for that is, in my opinion, because that's the "easy way" to change style behavior -but that's not the purpose of registrations. To put it simple: style describes the music, and registration describes the state (settings) of the whole keyboard.

Ok, but if registration does change the style the way I like, why not using it? I can imagine at least one reason why registration should be avoided. Example: you're using built-in style, made changes to your liking and saved each change registration. Next year you buy new keyboard, load the registrations and realize they became useless (because registrations are keyboard specific).  Means, if we use registrations, then we also need to make sure that we save the style that's used in registration. If sound/voice parameters are saved into style itself, then we only need to load the style in new keyboard and it will work.

Of course there are good reasons to use registrations... for example, to define pedal behavior... or if more that four variations are needed (which is quite rare in popular music).

I hope this was of some help -and if there is some specific question, don't hesitate to ask.

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline mikf

Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2022, 11:24:43 AM »
There is no ďright or wrongĒ, there are nearly always multiple ways to do things on these arrangers, and you can decide which works best for you. Donít be too much influenced by what you might see on videos posted, you just have to experiment to find the best way for you.
Many people love registrations, and use these almost exclusively to control keyboard settings, while some like to use style adjustment, and or OTS. Then again some may use previously made midis to provide accompaniment and not be playing fully live. And there are also many good players who make pretty minimal changes as they go through a song, few Ďbuttoní presses, relying on their playing skills to make the song interesting rather than making a lot of keyboard setting changes.
And donít assume that just because someone posts a fancy video they are very experienced or good players, they might have made 75 attempts at the song before they got a good enough version to post. ;D
There is no set way, and your best bet is to learn all the different ways to skin the cat.
I suspect you think there are Ďsecretsí that other people know and you donít, that would make you much better, which is why you keep searching for a book that might have the answers. In fact itís mostly about just honing your skills. Just like golf!
Mike
« Last Edit: December 09, 2022, 11:36:28 AM by mikf »
 

madirv

  • Guest
Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2022, 11:37:35 AM »
Thanks very much for that Mike  (you see I took your advice and posted questions!!!) and you are quite right.  I think there are secrets that I dont know, and yes, that's why I searched for a book.  The manual tells you how to change something but not always what for.
I suspect now that  I am possibly being a bit hard on myself and assuming that everyone else here is a brilliant musician/performer and knows everything about keyboards and that I know nothing and do everything wrong!!!!!!  My husband has always accused me of being "trigger happy" with any form of IT equipment but thats how Ive learnt everything I know about computers, chromebooks phones etc.

So--I'll keep pressing buttons and bashing away  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
 

madirv

  • Guest
Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2022, 11:39:57 AM »
Bogdan that is really helpful and thanks for that.  I havent quite grasped it but will plough through it  slowly and at leisure ----have to think about it and experiment with button pressing :D :D :D :D
Irene
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2022, 12:33:51 PM »
Hi Irene,
Mike is right: everyone should use what makes him/her comfortable .. I mean, that's why we have options, right?  :)

But I think, we should at least have an basic idea how things work, so we're aware of possible consequences (like "everything was fine, now some of my registrations don't work anymore").
There will always be better keyboard players as we are, and there will be worse. Does it matter? Not really. However, when I see someone playing something I like, I'm always curios how (s)he achieved that -it pushes me to improve myself. And that includes both: practicing and knowing my keyboard.
I'm not some keyboard "geek".. I'm just very curious person  ;)

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

madirv

  • Guest
Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2022, 01:00:30 PM »
Hi again guys
I don't want to post another question but this is related so I'll include here.
As an example I have watched Craft Tuchola playing "Balaljka" on a Genos on youtube.  I absolutely love this (I love strong beaty music) and would love to play it.  Ive trawled the internet and googled incessantly to try to get the music and asked on his page for the name of the piece (I think it is actually called Balaljka) but didnt get anywhere.  On this piece his hands continually press buttons on the left side and that started my "curiosity " -  one for Bogdan.

On another totally unrelated note, my cousin died a few years ago and her husband had always liked keyboards and bought various models (hes the one who gave me one for my grandchildren and started me off) and he ended up with a Genos.  He was basically pretty useless at playing but liked messing about---couldnt play the Genos--preferred organs so bought an organ and offered to GIVE me the Genos.   I kid you not!!!!  I refused and said I couldnt possibly take it as it was worth a lot of money  (I offered to sell it for him on ebay but he didnt bother).  Sadly he is now 89 and is in a care home, his house is empty but the genos and the organ are still there doing nothing.!!!!!!!!! :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
Oh what a mistake I made on grounds of ethics!!!!!
Before you comment  a close friend and neighbour had power of attorney and I dont deal with anything but I should have taken up his kind offer.
Thanks for listening guys---will keep any further posts/rants to a minimum.
Irene
 

Offline Toril S

Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2022, 02:07:11 PM »
I like your posts, so please post often! As for registrations I very rarely use them. They are handy if you use complicated setups when you play, because a lot of things can be stored in a reg, such as pedal settings, and you can link sheet music programs on Ipads to them. But regs take time to set up, they are keyboard specific, and you must remember to keep styles in the same place or the reg will not find it and so on. I keep it simple, I use OTS. I adjust the style, give it the name of the song I am going to use it for, and that is that. Registrations are powerful tools, but too much work in my opinion.
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

madirv

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Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2022, 02:26:07 PM »
Oh thank you for that Toril :D :D :D  I was afraid of becoming a pest.
Well I find that strange---I thought registrations were easy but maybe I am doing them different from you ????  I dont much like the OTS settings---one is always strings which doesnt go with things like "Beer Barrel Polka" ;D ;D ;D ;D
I just choose the song/tune decide on the instruments and fiddle about with styles and so on till i get a sound i like then I press SAVE and then number 1 (or something) then enter it into the reg bank under the song name.   Maybe Im doing that wrong  ??? ??? ??? but it seemed easy---mind you you would not believe the hours it took me to be able to do it like that---even following instructions!!!!!!!  You have to keep pressing save---I did learn that much.
 

Offline EileenL

Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2022, 03:35:49 PM »
Hello Irene,
  We all choose the way we do things and it really dose depend on what you feel comfortable with.
  I myself have always used registrations and when playing for Dances used to play at least three tunes per dance so had a nice variety of sounds to use to keep the music fresh for those who were just sitting listening. I have my drum fills set to a pedal so did not have to keep going over to the left to press one. I set my style variations into my registrations and also adjust the volume and speed of the style I want. I also make what I call style free banks with all my favourite voices in that I can use any style with. When buying the next keyboard up your registrations will work. I went from a PSR970 to an SX900 and all worked. Also from Tyros1 right through to Genos.
  Most players will tell you registrations are the way to go.
 
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madirv

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Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2022, 04:03:03 PM »
That's most interesting Eileen.  I think I get what you mean ie saving variations into the reg bank instead of just the songs themselves.  thats something else for me to think about ;D ;D  I have an Irish song called Rose of Allendale that I play---its a ballad and I play that sort of slow with guitars etc and then have set up another version played with a fast country and western beat (the Dubliners would probably throw their hands up in horror) and it sounds like a bluegrass song---but I like it----point being I then save that version under memory 7 and the other on memory 8 and then just switch when Ive played it through once.  Thats how i use all my registrations.  I thought perhaps seeing these performers i was doing it all wrong!!!!!  But as some music writer said "if it sounds right it is right!"
Now drum rolls---that's another topic ---I was going to ask the man busting his gut to sell me another keyboard how to add a drum roll but all attempts were countered with basically---"that keyboards no good you need this one!!!!"
Bogdan has given a good answer re altering OTS I think but I havent had time to study that yet.
Ill be back ere long with a drum roll question. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers
Irene
 
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Offline Fred Smith

Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2022, 05:16:59 PM »
Oh thank you for that Toril :D :D :D  I was afraid of becoming a pest.
Well I find that strange---I thought registrations were easy but maybe I am doing them different from you ????  I dont much like the OTS settings---one is always strings which doesnt go with things like "Beer Barrel Polka" ;D ;D ;D ;D
I just choose the song/tune decide on the instruments and fiddle about with styles and so on till i get a sound i like then I press SAVE and then number 1 (or something) then enter it into the reg bank under the song name.   Maybe Im doing that wrong  ??? ??? ??? but it seemed easy---mind you you would not believe the hours it took me to be able to do it like that---even following instructions!!!!!!!  You have to keep pressing save---I did learn that much.

I use registrations exclusively. Once they're arranged, playing with them is so easy. I set up my registrations so I don't ever have to take my hands off the keyboard as that's a recipe for disaster for me.

You can learn how I do registrations in my videos (link in signature).

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 
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Offline BogdanH

Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2022, 05:42:05 PM »
hi Irene,
Here's a short description of how to customize OTS voices for particular style:

Select one built-in style you like (let's say, it's "FinalWaltz"). You can play it, but don't make any changes yet. Now press Function button and then use Tab button to get Menu 2 on screen. There you choose Style Creator and once you're in it, choose Save option. Now keyboard will select User memory as saving destination and "FinalWaltz" as a style name. Here you can rename style to your liking, i.e to "FinalWaltz-2". Finally, you confirm saving.
That was the hardest part. That's necessary to be done, because you can't save changes into built-in styles. Once style is in User memory, it becomes "your" custom style. After you save the style, it is automatically selected as current style in use. At this point, it will still sound exactly the same as built-in style.

Now select voices you wish to be used for R1 and/or R2 and/or L. Once you're happy with the voices and you also adjusted other voice settings (in Mixer), your choice is ready to be saved into OTS.
Before continuing: while choosing voices, make sure that OTS LINK button is turned off -otherwise, your choices will be lost as soon you press one of the variations buttons.

For saving your voices into OTS, press MEMORY button. But after that instead of pressing one of registrations buttons, press one of four OTS buttons. There are four OTS buttons; one for each style variation. Usually we use OTS1 for MAIN A, OTS2 for MAIN B, etc.
As soon you press desired OTS button, you will be asked where to save your voice settings. In this case, keyboard will suggest "FinalWaltz-2" style. Now you confirm the saving.

That's it. Every time you load "FinalWaltz-2" style, it will already contain your customized OTS voices. You can also save that style on USB (for archive purpose) and when you load it next time, it will still contain your OTS voice settings.
If you wish OTS voices to be automatically changed along with variations, then make sure OTS LINK button is turned on.

I hope that was of some help,
Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 
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madirv

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Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2022, 06:37:19 PM »
Thats tremendous Bogdan and thank you so much for taking the trouble to write all that.  I havent been able to try it yet as Ive been trying to deal with boring domestic issues in between posting on here but as soon as Ive finished writing Christmas cards I shall give it my full attention ;D ;D ;D
I cannot believe how much Ive learned in the last 3 days of posting and Ive gained a lot of confidence from the reassurance Ive been given.
Thanks also Fred---I have read several of your posts when I first got this keyboard and will now re-visit them
Cheers
Irene
 
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Offline mikf

Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2022, 06:56:01 PM »
Registrations are great, but the downside is that if you use multiple registrations through the course of a song you have to know when to change them. For just a few songs that is fine, but itís a stretch to remember all of that for every song. So it means using music and marking it up where registrations should change. That takes a bit of pre organization, and can be a bit mechanical.
I think the thing Eileen mentions of a bank of favorite voices is a good setup. Then you can easily change voices without surprises or marking up music. You can actually stick a piece of tape next to the registration number with voice name on it so you donít even have to remember. Using styles, named and saved by song name, and using a bank of favorite voices works well. Itís then easy to change style variation and voice on the fly.
The thing is that all of these things work, and each individual decides what works best for them.
But while great set ups, frequent changes of voices and lots of button pushing might help, they are not what will make you a good player. Itís your musicianship, presentation and playing skill that mostly make the difference. My main advice is to not get carried away with the technology, - work mostly on making the song sound good by playing great chords, nice phrasing, good arrangement - and few mistakes!
Mike
 
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Offline LaHawk

Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2022, 01:11:36 AM »
  It seems to me as though when experienced players play they do a lot of swopping about and button pressing on the left side of the keyboard which seems to me that it is mostly the variations they are pressing and not the memory buttons which made me wonder if I'm doing this all wrong and what is it that they are pressing

You're most likely correct, those "experienced" players are left side button pushing 1-4 to progressively move up or down to another style variation, or to drum fill in the currently used style variation. Both effective at certain break points of a song to give more depth and for filling in when necessary. The timing of fill in's takes a little practice, but that will eventually advance you too to the more experienced level.
Larry   PSR-SX900
 
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madirv

  • Guest
Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2022, 12:10:55 PM »
Thanks again Mike and Larry for your input.  Mike I don't make the registrations quite so complicated---some I only have the one version but others I just add another "version" and then swop over when I get to the song repeat so it isn't really complicated but i take your point.  I think what i have done wrong really is that I play a song---- 2 of my earlier ones were Blue Bayou and No Regrets (pretty simple to play) and once I have set them up and played them a few times and " mastered" them I then go past the smug stage of feeling I've done something rather clever and brilliant and I then think well this is so easy a child could play this so I look for something more difficult and decide I'm rubbish. 
My son is a really super pianist and I watch him with envy as he flashes through Chopin and Scott Joplin with what appears to be 25 fingers and playing 30 notes at a time and I think how pathetic my efforts are.  My husband (who has never paid anyone a compliment in his life--its just not his way!!!!) did say "well you enjoy yourself and you can bash a tune out" and that's As Good AS It Gets---to quote my favourite Jack Nicholson film!!!  I am pleased though that it seems I am on the right track and that the answer lies on playing and practicing more to improve.  And you dont get it from a book.
I am fascinated though by Bogdan's comments and suggestions plus Eileens and Larrys comments and in addition to playing I will experiment with those but will not get carried away with technology.
I haven't had time to play for a few days as I've been so busy chatting on here ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Just a final comment----Not long after I got my KB hubby suggested I learn some christmas songs so that when the grandchildren came at Christmas I could play some xmas songs.  I was duly bashing out Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer when my youngest grandson who I think was about 6 at the time came in and said rather indignantly
"Granny---I've closed both doors AND I CAN STILL HEAR YOU !!!!!!"
I think perhaps that says it all :D :D :D :D :D :D
Thanks again to you all for your continued help.  It is much appreciated
Irene
Irene
 
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Offline BogdanH

Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2022, 01:07:17 PM »
...but will not get carried away with technology.
...
-exactly right.
I'm aware that one might get impression, that many of us in this forum are only interested on "tech" instead on playing music. But that's not true. In most cases, it's only a wish, to point someone into "right" direction.. that is, how to make benefit of some feature. And if some feature makes our playing easier and/or better, then that's all what matters.
In that sense, use only as much technology as much you feel comfortable with. Technology is there to help us playing, not to keep us busy.

Quote
..
"Granny---I've closed both doors AND I CAN STILL HEAR YOU !!!!!!"
I think perhaps that says it all :D :D :D :D :D :D
-love your sense for humor :D

Best wishes,
Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 
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Offline andyg

Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2022, 09:45:23 PM »
I can see, that many are using registrations even for relative "simple" songs. The reason for that is, in my opinion, because that's the "easy way" to change style behavior -but that's not the purpose of registrations. To put it simple: style describes the music, and registration describes the state (settings) of the whole keyboard.


Interesting thought!

Registration presets/pistons/buttons have been around for hundreds of years. Their raison d'etre is to make fast changes of set up. As instruments evolved, from Classical organ to theatre organ, to Hammond and others and, from the 1980s, to keyboards, so the scope of what the presets could do expanded.

With my designer's hat firmly on, we included user registration presets as soon as the technology allowed us to do so (late 1970s and early 1980s), with the intention of making rapid changes to sounds and styles - as BogdanH said 'the whole keyboard'. So IMHO, you most certainly should use registrations "even for relative "simple" songs." In fact, fast registration changes are mandatory in all keyboard exams from Grade 1 upwards, so it's one of the first technical things I teach. And when you reach Grade 3, you'll find it difficult to fulfil all the mandatory voice and style change requirements without a foot switch to change registrations!

Yes it's a bit of a waste, if all you want to do is change variation on a style, but taken as a whole, where registrations might include a big change of sound, a complete change of style, style balance and voicing (carefully!), I'd say their use in any song, simple or complex, makes perfect sense.
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 
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madirv

  • Guest
Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2022, 11:42:03 AM »
Thank you for that Andyg.  I printed off Bogdans instructions and tried them out and I can understand what he is saying.  I got stuck later when I tried to access the style and a very loud bongo drum appeared in one of the OTS that I hadn't intentionally put there  ;D ;D ;D ;D but I then struggled a bit as to how to organise the songs i had in the reg bank.  I also wrote to Yamaha with a question and they recommended using registrations so I will continue with this as this is familiar to me and after an initial struggle I now find it quite easy.  I have learned a little more though through trying this other method. Also I didnt know you could change the registrations with the foot pedal so there is something else I have learned and something else for me to mess with and possibly destroy!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  My variations are usually a change of voice and occasionally a complete style change but many are just one set up and just saved under the song title.
Cheers
Irene
 

Offline LaHawk

Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2022, 01:06:36 PM »
And don't forget "Playlist", a shortcut to registrations. Playlist can be organized and accessed quickly by any category of your choosing.
Larry   PSR-SX900
 
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madirv

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Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2022, 01:34:07 PM »
Ive just set up the pedal to change the registrations for one of my songs-----sooooo exciting!!!
Larry I dont think I have a Playlist-----where is that?
 

madirv

  • Guest
Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2022, 01:35:37 PM »
Larry I see you have the SX900-----mine is the PSR S975------is that why I cant find it?
 

Offline EileenL

Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2022, 01:36:58 PM »
Yes Irene,
  Only on Genos or SX900.

Offline LaHawk

Re: LeftH/rightH---am I doing something wrong
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2022, 02:03:52 PM »
Larry I see you have the SX900-----mine is the PSR S975------is that why I cant find it?

Sorry, thought you had the SX-900. The S975 has a similar "Music Finder"  You can download and install a sampling from Yamaha (USA):
https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/65198_EN.html
Larry   PSR-SX900