Topic: Aux-Sub line out

[mhack]

I have connected two Pesonus 5.25 powered studio monitors to my SX900. I also used Sub Aux Out line to my Yamaha sub-woofer. You must control volume of the woofer using its own gain knob. See page 102 of owners manual. You must set the line out to Aux from the main menu.
Mhack

[mixermixer]

Ideally there should be a crossover somewhere in the signal chain so that the sub only gets the bass and the monitors get the rest of the frequency spectrum, otherwise your sub will try to reproduce the high frequencies which is not ideal. If your powered sub has a built in crossover, I would suggest using the main out to the sub then HI PASS OUT to your monitors.

[BogdanH]

Agree with mixermixer (above) -and there might be other "troubles" worth to consider.

Actually it's very difficult to keep such setup properly balanced. Let me explain:
1st: Monitors are connected to Main output and so there are three stages at which you need to keep volume control: Master volume knob on panel, Master volume output (in Mixer/Compressor) and finally Input gain on Monitors itself.
2nd: Volume of Subwoofer is controlled at two places: at Master volume output (in Mixer/Compressor) and on Subwoofer itself.

Now, by assuming that all is well balanced, every time volume is even slightly changed with Master Volume knob, balance is lost. That is, Subwoofer's loudness must be re-adjusted as well. I just think that's not practical -we should keep in mind, that balancing loudness between monitors and subwoofer, can be quite delicate task (to sound properly).
In short: if subwoofer is needed to be used, then it must have pass-trough input/output connectors (as mixermixer mentioned), or separate mixer should be used. If latter, then keyboard (Sub/Aux) is connected to mixer input, and monitors and subwoofer are connected to mixer outputs -that way complete volume is controlled by single Master volume knob on mixer (independent on Master Volume knob position on keyboard).

I have quickly checked Presonus Eris E5 (if that's the one) and according to specifications, I would assume that there isn't really a need for separate subwoofer -at least not for home use, that is.

Bogdan

[mhack]

BOGDAN, Does “Master volume output( in Mixer/ Compressor)”  refer to Panel settings in Pan/Vol EQ, Page 96?
Thank you very much for your help. Mhack

[BogdanH]

I'm not sure if I understand the question... but let me try.

On Mixer panel, imagine Panel and Style section as some sort of "pre-amplifier" settings, where the goal is, to get various voices/instruments in balance with each other: background organ maybe a little quieter, solo guitar a little louder (than organ), snare just loud enough so rhythm can be heard, etc. -that is, you make volume ratio between used instrument. Similarly, you also "position" instruments "on stage", by using pan settings.

Now imagine Compressor on Mixer Panel as (final) amplifier, into which "the whole band" is connected. Means, here you decide about final sound of complete band. Why is that needed? Because when you create your "band", you are trying to make them sound perfectly balanced. However, you never know how the "band" will sound in particular room (where you will perform). It can happen, that even everything was nice at home, that's maybe not the case at another place. Let's say, there's too much bass in room.. or you wish to increase total volume, without increasing low frequencies too much. Of course you don't wish to decrease volume of bass guitar (and drum) in every style you will use. And that's where you use Compressor/EQ -by using it, you define how the "band" will sound in particular room (without changing voice and style parameters).

Compressor/EQ settings do (obviously) affect both, MAIN & SUB OUTPUT on keyboard back panel. The problem is (or can be), MAIN OUTPUT is also affected by Master Volume knob on top panel -but SUB OUTPUT is not! That is, by using Master Volume knob, you only change volume on MAIN OUTPUT (and for built-in speakers, of course).
Speaking for me, I really don't understand why Yamaha did that. In my opinion, both outputs (MAIN & SUB) should only be influenced by Compressor Output setting. Or: there should be a choice where user could decide what he prefer.

I hope that somewhat answered your question 

Bogdan

[overover]

Hi Mhack,

Maybe the following is helpful:

The "SUB" outputs are basically not intended for connecting an powered subwoofer speaker! So the term "SUB" has nothing to do with "subwoofer" here. Individual parts or drum instruments (e.g. bass or bass drum) can be routed separately to an external mixer / audio interface via these outputs (in "Sub" mode). The parts routed to the Sub outs are removed from the Main mix!

Alternatively, you can switch these outputs to "Aux" mode. Then these jacks deliver the same signal as the Main Out jacks (and the Headphones jack), with the difference that the Sub/Aux are not affected by the Master Volume control, but have a fixed volume.

As previously mentioned, a powered subwoofer is typically connected to the keyboard's Main Out L/R jacks and then routed from the subwoofer's dedicated outputs (e.g. labeled HI PASS OUT) to the satellite monitor speakers.

If your subwoofer isn't designed for this type of connection, you could connect it to the Headphones jack on the keyboard.


Best regards,
Chris

[mhack]

My thanks to Bogdan and Chris for giving me the answers I need. I failed to give them a proper explanation. I do not perform anywhere. I use my SX 900 for singer/songwriting only. I plead guilty to not reading enough and studying the owner/reference manuals in depth. I utilize just a few different set-ups for my song recordings. But, I must admit that sometimes I turn the speakers ON so I can amaze/amuse myself and sing old favorites for my bride and my dog. I don’t have to worry about Gigs, because there are none. I have recorded two songs on the SX. Sailboat and Walk On By. I have used several keyboards, the last was a T4. I found it to be more user friendly. Thanks again for your help.
Mike

[BogdanH]

You're welcome Mike.

...I use my SX 900 for singer/songwriting only....
sometimes I turn the speakers ON so I can amaze/amuse myself and sing old favorites for my bride and my dog.

-I would say that is true for 90% members here 

Bogdan

[ton37]

... But, I must admit that sometimes I turn the speakers ON so I can amaze/amuse myself and sing old favorites for my bride and my dog. ..
Mike

To which I add: if your dog is happy and wags his tail after your song, then you must give him a cookie and he will always respond joyfully after every song (good or bad). Whether that also works with your bride ...?? 

[mhack]

Sadly, Ton, I am no longer able to wag my tail.
Happy Thanksgiving To All!
Mike

[rikkisbears]

If your subwoofer isn't designed for this type of connection, you could connect it to the Headphones jack on the keyboard.


Best regards,
Chris

Hi Chris,
Just out of interest , can a headphone  jack be used instead of the line out’s on the sx.  for external monitors?  Is there a difference in the quality of the signal?  or are you just recommending the above as a last resort in regards to the subwoofer.

[overover]

Hi Chris,
Just out of interest , can a headphone  jack be used instead of the line out’s on the sx.  for external monitors?  Is there a difference in the quality of the signal?  or are you just recommending the above as a last resort in regards to the subwoofer.

Hi Rikki,

The keyboard's Headphones output CAN be used to connect active speakers or an external mixer, for example. But I would always use the Main outs first. The headphones output is designed for lower load impedances (16 - 600 ohms). Line Inputs have much higher input impedances. This "not ideal" electrical matching can affect the sound in a negative way and/or worsen the signal/noise ratio.

But if, for some reason, two different active speaker systems are to be connected at the same time, but none of the speakers have connections for looping through the input signal and no external mixer or Y-cables are to be used, you CAN definitely try the connection to the headphones jack.


Best regards,
Chris

[rikkisbears]

Thanks Chris, I’ll stay with the line outs in that case. Just interesting to know the difference. Learning something new everyday. Haha

[BogdanH]

About active speakers on headphone output.. As Chris said, headphone output is meant for lower impedance. But what does that actually mean in practice?
It means, audio signal is already amplified (for headphone speakers) and so output level on headphone jack is much higher than that's the case for line out. Means, if connected to headphone jack, active loudspeaker will be very loud. That is, Master Volume knob must always be close to minimum (to prevent speaker distortion/damage). In this case however, Main Line output (on back) signal becomes low as well -speakers at line out will be much quieter that those connected to headphone jack.
Some active speakers have input sensitivity dial, so we can compensate "loudness" to some degree. But if input signal is too low, then we usually only add a lot of noise. In short: it's almost impossible to keep speakers in loudness balance.

Bogdan