Author Topic: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things  (Read 9111 times)

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Offline pjd

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #50 on: October 27, 2022, 07:17:06 PM »
Adding to Chris...

The key word is "co-axial" and it should be 75ohm impedance.

Why? S/PDIF carries a high-speed digital data signal and has special needs. It's not audio.

Hope the extra info helps -- pj
 
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #51 on: October 27, 2022, 07:34:18 PM »
Hi

Chris did give me the exact specification with the lead from Thomann.
Chris gave me the link
if you magnify  the cable up on their site you can see 75ohm written on the side of the cable.
It  is a pain waiting for this cable as has not cleared customs yet and will take another 3-4 days once cleared  and the flippin' postage is more than the cable's worth.
It will be wortht it!!! >:( ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #52 on: November 01, 2022, 09:02:16 PM »
Hi
I have had nothing but failure with this SPDF Business.
With RCA leads out of the Genos into the Focusrite 6i6 and usb to computer  everything worked fine.
I tried all combinations plugging the SPDF lead to Focusrite.
The Genos worked ok , but getting vst's to sound was hopeless.
When i did get Vst working the Genos sound did not work
Once the Genos was working again even +6db in the Utility was enough to distort the sound.
I tried the front ports to no avail and got truly fed up and went back to my original setup.
I have to take the DXR leads out of the main outs and plug leads in that go to the Focusrite for recording and all of that goes out to my Focal Alpha monitors.
I tried putting my Dxr speakers on the line out next to the main out , but the Genos has no control over the volume.
I could possibly adjust the speakers volume though and leave the recording for main outs otherwise get a switch box for the speakers.
It can be a pig setting up things from Genos and also getting Cubase configured  for each type of setup
That is where i am at at the moment floundering as i am not  an electrically minded Boff and tend to get the railway lines mixed up!! ::) ;D


All the best John :)
« Last Edit: November 01, 2022, 09:05:57 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline pjd

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #53 on: November 01, 2022, 11:00:03 PM »
Once the Genos was working again even +6db in the Utility was enough to distort the sound.

Hi John --

Just a thought after reading your comment.

+6dB doesn't seem like a lot -- it's only "6". But, +6dB is the same as amplifying the digital audio signal level by two (2).

If the digital audio waveform level is already near maximum (i.e., no digital headroom left), setting the digital out level to +6dB will cause the digital audio waveform to clip and distort. In other words, with the digital out level at +0dB, you may be getting all you can out of Genos already and need to boost/compress/limit the signal further down the digital signal chain, i.e., in the DAW software.

For the real tech nerds, the S/PDIF digital audio stream comes straight outta the SWP70 tone generator.

Dunno if this helps -- pj
 
« Last Edit: November 01, 2022, 11:02:02 PM by pjd »
 

Offline Michael Trigoboff

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #54 on: November 02, 2022, 07:10:29 AM »
Just in case it might be helpful, here’s how I have my rig wired. I am not using any of the front jacks on my 8i6. Digital audio to and from the PC is via USB. Digital audio from the Genos to the 8i6 is via S/PDIF.

Which speakers are you trying to get the VSTs to sound through? What are those speakers connected to?

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: November 02, 2022, 07:19:30 AM by Michael Trigoboff »
retired software developer and Computer Science instructor
Grateful Deadhead emeritus

"He had decided to live forever or die in the attempt."
-- Joseph Heller, Catch-22
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #55 on: November 02, 2022, 01:07:35 PM »
Hi Michael

I use my Yamaha DXR8 On main out and that goes though a hum destroyer in between Genos and speakers.
They are quite a powerful pair ,but excellent quality down at the right levels

I then plug in the SPDF cable and route that to my Focusrite 6i6 and same as your diagram the USB on the Focusrite  6i6 goes to computer and back to the Focusrite and out the RCA's to my Focal Alpha 50's
Well that seems to be the right set up plugged up wise.

Update

I have got it all working.
I had to get logical
I sat at the machine and slowly had another set up go and got it right.
 Played an orchestral sound and it recorded at 20 Luf's straight off, so that is in the ballpark for Cubase mixing.
It is on things like tambourines that need bumping up but as things like that are just enhancements to a song  30 Luf should be alright or even normalize low sounds like maraccas etc.

So now i can leave my DXR 8's in the main out and SPDF takes care of the recording and playback.

The only thing now is to get my vst instruments to play on the Genos.
I have one pair of AKG headphones on the Genos and a pair in the Focusrite 6i6 and my Focal Alpha monitors from the Focusrite RCA outs .
What i want now is to get the VST sound on the DXR 8's for my live practice and fun.

I realize that the VST's will not come back down the SPDF cable into the Genos .
Will i have to use my spare focusrite out 1 an 2 sockets with RCA leads to the Genos AUX in ?
At the moment i cannot get a receive instrument audio.
I have Arturia VST 's and Korg plus Sampletank and i have all the Arturia and Korg synths as standalones as well as for Cubase and all running at buffer size 256 smoothly at 5 ms latency. Not bad that.
I like to say to everyone it is best to get a fast music computer purpose built with a 32gig drive.
Computer side of things are no worries  especially with system images made. Always keep two on separate terrabyte drives.
This saves all the heartaches of losing everything


All the best
John  :)
« Last Edit: November 02, 2022, 11:54:05 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Michael Trigoboff

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #56 on: November 03, 2022, 01:37:50 AM »
I ran into a nasty feedback problem when I tried to do what it sounds like you are doing. The problem is that when you route analog audio from your 6i6 audio interface to the Genos via AUX IN, it comes right back out again on the S/PDIF digital audio cable.

I think you would be much better off routing your VST audio output through the speakers attached to your audio interface. I do not have any speakers attached to my Genos.
retired software developer and Computer Science instructor
Grateful Deadhead emeritus

"He had decided to live forever or die in the attempt."
-- Joseph Heller, Catch-22
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #57 on: November 03, 2022, 09:17:29 PM »
Hi Michael

It must be easier for you being a software developer and Computer Science instructor
even being retired!! :)  All i ever got was a Doctorate of Madnesss certificate ;D :o :P     

Well, I have got as far as you pointed out again and yes i can play through my Focusrite monitors.
They are flat response but i would like to get my standalone Vsts going out of the Genos into my DXR8's.

So if a signal like audio goes into the aux in on the Genos, does that mean it goes straight back automatically down or up the SPDF output??  ;D ;D or up the spout! :P
I am surprised that there is not a box that you can untick to stop the signal from going around again from the spdf.                                                                                                                       
« Last Edit: November 03, 2022, 09:31:33 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline overover

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #58 on: November 03, 2022, 09:28:26 PM »
... So if a signal like audio goes into the aux in on the Genos, does that mean it goes straight back automatically down or up the SPDF output??  ;D ;D or up the spout! :P
I am surprised that there is not a box that you can untick to stop the signal from going around again from the spdf.                                                                                                                     

Hi John,

The S/PDIF digital output always has the same mix as the Line Out Main jacks, Aux Out jacks (if Sub Out 3/4 jacks are configured as AUX Out) and the Headphones jack.


Best regards,
Chris
➪ Everyone kept saying "That won't work!" - Then someone came along who didn't know that and just did it.
➪ Never put the manual too far away: There's more in it than you think! ;-)
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #59 on: November 03, 2022, 09:37:02 PM »
Hi Chris
So whatever comes in the AUX IN  will go out of the main out and spdf similtaneously.


All the best
John :)
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Michael Trigoboff

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #60 on: November 03, 2022, 10:26:30 PM »
Quote from: John
It must be easier for you being a software developer and Computer Science instructor even being retired!! :)

It’s easier now. Believe me, though, I paid my dues in spades, hitting my head against the wall developing software.  :D

Quote from: John
All i ever got was a Doctorate of Madnesss certificate ;D :o :P

They don’t just award that degree in music; I have that same degree from my field.  :D
« Last Edit: November 04, 2022, 01:17:38 AM by Michael Trigoboff »
retired software developer and Computer Science instructor
Grateful Deadhead emeritus

"He had decided to live forever or die in the attempt."
-- Joseph Heller, Catch-22
 

Offline Michael Trigoboff

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #61 on: November 03, 2022, 10:31:58 PM »
Quote from: John
So whatever comes in the AUX IN  will go out of the main out and spdf similtaneously.

If you decide to try this, make sure to wear ear protection!
retired software developer and Computer Science instructor
Grateful Deadhead emeritus

"He had decided to live forever or die in the attempt."
-- Joseph Heller, Catch-22
 

Offline overover

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #62 on: November 03, 2022, 10:56:27 PM »
Hi Chris
So whatever comes in the AUX IN  will go out of the main out and spdf similtaneously.


All the best
John :)

Yes, this is correct, John.

If you are "experimenting" with the AUX IN, you should always keep an eye on the Aux In volume control (Mixer > Panel > Page 2) and make absolutely sure that the S/PDIF or Line Out Main signal is not fed back into the Genos AUX IN via the computer.


Best regards,
Chris
➪ Everyone kept saying "That won't work!" - Then someone came along who didn't know that and just did it.
➪ Never put the manual too far away: There's more in it than you think! ;-)
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #63 on: November 03, 2022, 11:01:26 PM »
Hi  Michael and Chris
Have you ever noticed no matter what we try there is always a block in the way with routing keyboards and programs.
Well i have to settle for playing the Genos with the DXr's and for recording the Genos and VST will combine using the Focusrite and Focal Apha's to monitor check before going back to hedphones just to make sure all stereo is where it should be before final mixdown
So multi-tracking is no problem out to my Focal alpha monitors.
I am really hoping that the next Genos will have a much larger sample memory as i can get samples out of Sample Robot so the Genos will play them. Sample Robot is great  but the Sf2 's are very large on the memory of the Genos. The way around that is to sample the octaves that is needed and cut down the amount of notes to sample in an octave.
Anyway it is all fun. :)


All the best
John :)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2022, 11:04:49 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline pjd

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #64 on: November 04, 2022, 12:57:05 AM »
If you decide to try this, make sure to wear ear protection!

This is no joke!  :o

I don't know how many times that I've accidentally -- and painfully -- blasted my ears when connections go awry.

Please protect your hearing -- pj
 

Offline Michael Trigoboff

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #65 on: November 04, 2022, 01:12:17 AM »
Quote from: pjd
I don't know how many times that I've accidentally -- and painfully -- blasted my ears when connections go awry.

Me too. Not fun!  :(

The most recent time was when I tried what John is trying.
retired software developer and Computer Science instructor
Grateful Deadhead emeritus

"He had decided to live forever or die in the attempt."
-- Joseph Heller, Catch-22
 

Offline Michael Trigoboff

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #66 on: November 04, 2022, 01:16:22 AM »
Quote from: John
Well i have to settle for playing the Genos with the DXr's and for recording the Genos and VST will combine using the Focusrite and Focal Apha's to monitor check before going back to hedphones just to make sure all stereo is where it should be before final mixdown

I am getting by fine with just one set of speakers connected to my 8i6 (and no speakers connected to the Genos). I also have a set of headphones connected to the headphone jack on my 8i6.

Is there some reason why you need a set of speakers connected to your Genos? It seems to me that you may just be creating extra trouble for yourself.
retired software developer and Computer Science instructor
Grateful Deadhead emeritus

"He had decided to live forever or die in the attempt."
-- Joseph Heller, Catch-22
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #67 on: November 04, 2022, 02:52:26 AM »
Hi Michael

I use the Focal Alpa 50's when i record in cubase as they are nearfield flat response monitors for mixing.
When i just want to play ,i use the DXR8's from main out of the Genos as they are not flat response speakers.
I do not use  both set of speakers  on at same time.
When just playing the Genos , the Focusrite is not switched on.
I was just hoping that i could of got the vst sound on the Gens upper half whilst still using styles for live play.
I have not tried what you have done yet and by the sound of it, it's is a no go.
I nearly blasted my ears out when i first used room correction with a mic plugged into the Focusrite  for Sonarworks.
I had to do about 35 room positions  with a mic. I purchase Sonarworks and that works a treat for my room and Headphones.
T he front gains were up for some reason when phantom power is used. That was like a Motorhead blast and nearly got the Ace of Spades!! ;D
« Last Edit: November 04, 2022, 02:55:28 AM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Michael Trigoboff

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #68 on: November 04, 2022, 04:31:22 AM »
John,

You have two distinct stereo analog audio output channels available to you on the back of your 6i6. You could connect both of your speaker sets to your 6i6, and then mute whichever set you don’t want to hear using the Focusrite Control app on a PC or Mac or iOS.

That’s how I switch between my speakers and my headphones.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2022, 04:41:58 AM by Michael Trigoboff »
retired software developer and Computer Science instructor
Grateful Deadhead emeritus

"He had decided to live forever or die in the attempt."
-- Joseph Heller, Catch-22
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #69 on: November 04, 2022, 04:15:17 PM »
Hi Michael


Thanks for the suggestion, i may give that a go later as it means crawling under the desk again.
It feels like the days when playing with your Christmas Electric Train Set ;D :P
I must admit i had more trouble with Scalectrix!!lol ;D


All the Best
John :)
« Last Edit: November 04, 2022, 04:16:48 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Online Bill

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #70 on: November 04, 2022, 04:34:18 PM »
Hi John

Could you not simply use an audio switch, they are quite cheap. 

Bill
England

Current KB:  YAMAHA GENOS 2
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #71 on: November 05, 2022, 11:01:10 AM »
Hi Bill
I will look into that.

The thing is that all is set up with SPDF  and now working.
I now can send a live play song over to Cubase for some little editing
Once the song is in Cubase and all set up i can now hear the playback through the Yamaha driver connection over headphones plugged into the Genos.
Now i can record to audio track and hear the result over my second pair of headphones in the Focusrite 6i6 but only with the Genos switched on.
Michael suggsted that i hall running through the Focusrite 6i6. I could have a go at that.
I have found that if i go to my Focusrite mixer pane. on the computer , i change after recording the SPDF to Internal i now hear audio coming through and also if i had instrument tracks from vst.
To sum up, everything from midi to recording also with vst included is fine.

So i just switch From SPDF to internal on the Focusrite.

If i did want to have VST playing along with the Genos  there seems to be something that gets in the way every time.
I tried split points on the vst and that worked , but it always interfere's with the Styles and everything goes clinkiyty clank Clunkley Klonk in perfect time. it is just sounds like that Geman Rock band FAUST!!!  ;D ;D ;D

Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 
The following users thanked this post: Bill

Offline Michael Trigoboff

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #72 on: November 05, 2022, 06:24:37 PM »
How are you getting analog audio from Cubase to the Genos? Are you connecting audio output from the 6i6 to AUX IN on the Genos? If that’s what you are doing, how are you avoiding a feedback loop via the S/PDIF cable?

EDIT:
I just figured something out. You can defeat the feedback loop by using the Focusrite Control app to mute S/PDIF input to the Scarlett outputs that are connected to AUX IN on the Genos. When I ran into the feedback problem, I was not yet familiar enough with the Focusrite Control app to realize this was possible.

It’s taken almost a year, but I am starting to really understand this rig I have built.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2022, 06:39:28 PM by Michael Trigoboff »
retired software developer and Computer Science instructor
Grateful Deadhead emeritus

"He had decided to live forever or die in the attempt."
-- Joseph Heller, Catch-22
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #73 on: November 05, 2022, 06:58:17 PM »
Hi Michael
I am not get audio from Cubase to Genos
I can do if i sample a vst sound in Sample Robot and convert to Sf2
I make a song and then put midi into Cubase for editing.
I then turn to wave file.
The way now that i hear audio is with headphones and Focal alpha  monitors out from the Focusrite 6i6
from there i do not need the Genos on as i can then mix and master with Neutron 4 and Ozone10.
So if i have midi in cubase and want to record to wave , then the siganl goes back into the Genos and out to spdf to  the focusrite 6i6 In.
The sound that i recorded sounds sharper , sort of more treble in there.
When i turn off Sdpf in the Focusrite mixer and put it on Internal all sounds normal ,but this time i am on 20Luf's which is in the ballpark
I wonder if you wonder what i am on about , but i am not an expert in the electrical field.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2022, 06:59:43 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Michael Trigoboff

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #74 on: November 05, 2022, 08:59:10 PM »
Quote from:  John
The sound that i recorded sounds sharper , sort of more treble in there.

That’s the advantage of the S/PDIF connection. You avoid two conversions: digital to analog coming out of the Genos, and then analog to digital going into your PC. Each of those conversions degrades the quality of your audio.

Quote from: John
I wonder if you wonder what i am on about , but i am not an expert in the electrical field.

I don’t wonder about that at all. I have found this comment thread to be very interesting and useful, and I hope I have managed to help you at least a little.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2022, 09:04:44 PM by Michael Trigoboff »
retired software developer and Computer Science instructor
Grateful Deadhead emeritus

"He had decided to live forever or die in the attempt."
-- Joseph Heller, Catch-22
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: The Genos Gain for Cubase 12 and other things
« Reply #75 on: November 06, 2022, 05:12:02 PM »
Hi Mike
 I hope everything now stays stable

All the best
john :)

Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox