Author Topic: MIDI Quick Recording Gets Tempo Wrong  (Read 2523 times)

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Offline Michael Trigoboff

MIDI Quick Recording Gets Tempo Wrong
« on: October 16, 2022, 02:26:24 AM »
I have a song whose tempo is set to 108. I hit the RECORDING button on the Genos, and then the Quick Recording button on the touchscreen. I make sure the tempo in the recording display is 108. Then I record a song.

Then I import the song MIDI file into a Cubase project whose tempo is set to 108. But when I play back the MIDI from Cubase, the Genos' tempo gets set to 178 by something in the imported MIDI's SysEx Data track.

When i play the MIDI song back on the Genos, it plays correctly in the correct tempo.

i have verified this behavior a number of times. Is Cubase messing with the MIDI data?
« Last Edit: October 16, 2022, 02:31:33 AM by Michael Trigoboff »
retired software developer and Computer Science instructor
Grateful Deadhead

"He had decided to live forever or die in the attempt."
-- Joseph Heller, Catch-22
 

Offline Michael Trigoboff

Re: MIDI Quick Recording Gets Tempo Wrong
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2022, 02:39:11 AM »
i just checked the SysEx Data track in the Genos Step Editor vs the Cubase List Editor. There are definitely some differences at the beginning. Either Cubase is changing the SysEx data when it imports, or the Genos is changing the SysEx data when it exports.

 >:(
« Last Edit: October 16, 2022, 02:45:30 AM by Michael Trigoboff »
retired software developer and Computer Science instructor
Grateful Deadhead

"He had decided to live forever or die in the attempt."
-- Joseph Heller, Catch-22
 

Offline overover

Re: MIDI Quick Recording Gets Tempo Wrong
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2022, 05:30:56 PM »
Hi Michael,

Could you post one of those MIDI files here (created and saved on Genos with MIDI Quick Recording) where the problem occurs with two different tempo settings? I would then take a closer look at it in several programs...

By the way, with MIDI Quick Recording it is important that you start with an initialized song, i.e. that "New Song" is displayed. Did you notice this?


Best regards,
Chris
They always said: "This is not possible!"  Then someone came and - just did it!

Never put the manual too far away.  There's more in it than you think!
 
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Offline Michael Trigoboff

Re: MIDI Quick Recording Gets Tempo Wrong
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2022, 11:37:50 PM »
Thanks, Chris.

Here is a zip file containing 2 MIDI files:
  • genos.mid: a Quick Recording from the Genos
  • cubase.mid: the result of importing genos.mid into Cubase Pro 12 and then exporting to a new MIDI file
"New Song" was displayed in Quick Recording when I recorded genos.mid. I am pretty sure it was displayed when I recorded the other files I tried yesterday.

I copied cubase.mid back onto the Genos and played it, and the tempo remained at 108. It turns out that the only time the tempo gets set to 178 is when I play the MIDI imported from genos.mid directly from its track in Cubase.

So it turns out that Cubase is doing something weird that I will have to figure out how to work around. Given that both the Genos and Cubase are made by Yamaha, it's surprising that they don't play very well together.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2022, 11:39:05 PM by Michael Trigoboff »
retired software developer and Computer Science instructor
Grateful Deadhead

"He had decided to live forever or die in the attempt."
-- Joseph Heller, Catch-22
 

Offline overover

Re: MIDI Quick Recording Gets Tempo Wrong
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2022, 02:48:47 AM »
Thanks, Michael!

I downloaded your zip file and will look at the MIDI files. But my response to this may take a little while ...


Best regards,
Chris
They always said: "This is not possible!"  Then someone came and - just did it!

Never put the manual too far away.  There's more in it than you think!
 
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Offline ugawoga

Re: MIDI Quick Recording Gets Tempo Wrong
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2022, 11:44:43 AM »
Hi Mike

This always happens in Cubase.
 I just bring up to correct bpm and save
You can save tempo settings in Cubase and draw tempo to your hearts content.
Your Cubase tempo setting maybe on 178 start. I will have a check on that myself later.
Check that tempo setting that maybe already saved
But i do not worry what it says as i adjust and save in Cubase 12.
My hate with Cubase is , if i start cubase without the focusrite on, the next time i have to redo all the settings again even if i save a project.
You do not need the Focusrite on when editing midi in Cubase as the Yamaha driver keeps you going.
My Spdf is going well and my Cubase 121 controller is still in business. At the moment!! :P


All the best
John


All the Best
John
« Last Edit: November 06, 2022, 11:59:31 AM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 
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Offline overover

Re: MIDI Quick Recording Gets Tempo Wrong
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2022, 04:56:42 PM »
Hi Michael,

What I've found out so far:

Both MIDI files (genos.mid and cubase.mid) contain a SysEx (at time 001:2:000) that selects the Genos Preset Style "60s8Beat". (Style control SysEx are always automatically written to the MIDI file when recording via MIDI Quick Recording.) The style mentioned has a default tempo of 178. I suspect that when playing such MIDI files in Cubase the Genos for some reason uses the standard tempo of the "embedded" Style instead of the actual MIDI file tempo (at time 001:1:0000).

If you don't need the Style control SysEx in the MIDI file anyway, I recommend removing them with PSRUTI (before importing into Cubase). To do this, load the MIDI file in PSRUTI (V8.21) and then click on "Extras > Delete Keyboard Events". In the "Delete Keyboard Events" window, I recommend leaving the default setting with all checkboxes ticked except for the bottom one. Then you click Ok and Exit to return to the main window of PSRUTI and save the file with "Save as" with a changed name. (With "Save" the source file would be overwritten without asking!)

Download PSRUTI program (only available for Windows):
>>> https://heikoplate.de/psruti.html


Best regards,
Chris
They always said: "This is not possible!"  Then someone came and - just did it!

Never put the manual too far away.  There's more in it than you think!
 
The following users thanked this post: Michael Trigoboff

Offline Michael Trigoboff

Re: MIDI Quick Recording Gets Tempo Wrong
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2022, 12:18:50 AM »
Thanks, Chris. It sounds like too much mindless software is trying to be helpful, when I would be better off without all that “help.”
retired software developer and Computer Science instructor
Grateful Deadhead

"He had decided to live forever or die in the attempt."
-- Joseph Heller, Catch-22
 

Offline overover

Re: MIDI Quick Recording Gets Tempo Wrong
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2022, 12:41:23 AM »
Thanks, Chris. It sounds like too much mindless software is trying to be helpful, when I would be better off without all that “help.”

Hi Michael,

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "mindless software". PSRUTI (and now also MixMaster) is a MUST for anyone who wants to work seriously/professionally with XG MIDI files in connection with Yamaha Arranger Keyboards. Unfortunately, the developer of PSRUTI, Heiko Plate, passed away some time ago, so the program is no longer being developed/supported.

Please have a look on the manual ("Help" button in PSRUTI or separate download). Many important functions, such as the described removal of the Style Control SysEx or removal of (e.g. accidentally saved in the MIDI file) "Keyboard Voice Events", etc., you will not find in any other program.


Best regards,
Chris
They always said: "This is not possible!"  Then someone came and - just did it!

Never put the manual too far away.  There's more in it than you think!
 

Offline MarkF_48

Re: MIDI Quick Recording Gets Tempo Wrong
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2022, 01:11:15 AM »
Hey there, a heads up....

I clicked Michael's zip file link and downloaded the file from OneDrive. I extracted the folder that was in the zip file to a temporary folder and proceeded to play one of the midi files. A short while later I was looking for some mp3 music to play and ran across a file called 'redir.htm' in a folder that was nowhere near the temp folder I extracted the zip file to or where I downloaded the zip file. This 'redir.htm' file was created at the same time (7:24pm) I accessed or downloaded the zip file. Not sure if extracting the contents might have done something either. I opened the 'redir.htm'  in Notepad and it's more than I can decipher, but looks rather suspicious with the javascripting within it.  I would suggest to anyone who may have downloaded the zip file to do a search on your drive(s) for 'redir'. I have no idea if it could be malicious. Opening the 'redir.htm' file would likely open your browser and I have no idea what it would do from there. Do not double click.
I attached a screenshot of where it resides in one of the mp3 folders and I'm going to do a virus/malware check on my PC after I post this. Also a screenshot of the browser history.
 

Offline Michael Trigoboff

Re: MIDI Quick Recording Gets Tempo Wrong
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2022, 06:33:07 AM »
Quote from: Mark
I clicked Michael's zip file link and downloaded the file from OneDrive. I extracted the folder that was in the zip file to a temporary folder and proceeded to play one of the midi files. A short while later I was looking for some mp3 music to play and ran across a file called 'redir.htm' in a folder that was nowhere near the temp folder I extracted the zip file to or where I downloaded the zip file. This 'redir.htm' file was created at the same time (7:24pm) I accessed or downloaded the zip file. Not sure if extracting the contents might have done something either. I opened the 'redir.htm'  in Notepad and it's more than I can decipher, but looks rather suspicious with the javascripting within it.

I just checked, and the zip file only contains the two MIDI files. I have no idea where redir.htm might have come from. If you want to post it here, I can look at the JavaScript code and try to figure out what it does.
retired software developer and Computer Science instructor
Grateful Deadhead

"He had decided to live forever or die in the attempt."
-- Joseph Heller, Catch-22
 

Offline MarkF_48

Re: MIDI Quick Recording Gets Tempo Wrong
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2022, 02:26:34 PM »
Hi Michael,
I don't think the zip file itself contained the 'redir'htm'. I kinda think it was somehow part of the OneDrive download. I tried to attach the 'redir.htm' file (renamed 'redir.txt') to a post and the board is restrictive as to the types of attachments and the whole post got vaporized. I'll try and send a PM with the context of the file in full. I am attaching to this post a screenshot of the properties/details of the 'redir.htm' which the date and time coincide with the download from OneDrive shown in the browser. I ran two scans on my PC and they came up clean. Perhaps the file that showed up is harmless, but the manner in which it put itself in a folder not associated with the folder the zip file went into is a bit concerning.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2022, 05:42:08 PM by MarkF_48 »
 

Offline Michael Trigoboff

Re: MIDI Quick Recording Gets Tempo Wrong
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2022, 02:49:45 AM »
I got your file to open in Safari on an iPad, and this is what I saw:

screenshot

I wasn’t brave enough to try it on my PC…
« Last Edit: November 08, 2022, 02:52:09 AM by Michael Trigoboff »
retired software developer and Computer Science instructor
Grateful Deadhead

"He had decided to live forever or die in the attempt."
-- Joseph Heller, Catch-22
 

Offline MarkF_48

Re: MIDI Quick Recording Gets Tempo Wrong
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2022, 02:19:36 PM »
Thanks for looking at that  Michael. Looks harmless. Wish I could figure out how it got into my MP3 folders   ???
 

Offline Michael Trigoboff

Re: MIDI Quick Recording Gets Tempo Wrong
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2022, 08:03:00 PM »
Did you ever have a Yamaha Motif XF? I did, years ago, so maybe that’s something of mine. But I have no idea how that file could have tagged along on a OneDrive share link. It definitely wasn’t in the zip file.
retired software developer and Computer Science instructor
Grateful Deadhead

"He had decided to live forever or die in the attempt."
-- Joseph Heller, Catch-22