Author Topic: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron  (Read 151291 times)

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Offline BogdanH

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #700 on: January 29, 2023, 12:36:33 PM »
A lot of money though ...  ;)
-It sure is! But compared to Genos launch price, it's not that "bad" ::) Ok, Korg Pa5X 76-key is 300€ cheaper and it also has 61-key option (additionally 300€ cheaper).

My impression so far... They're both very good keyboards, of course. But from what I've seen so far, I imagine that I could easier switch from Yamaha to Korg, that that's the case for Ketron. I mean, generally speaking, Yamaha and Korg have similar styles/voices approach and so I wouldn't expect much troubles to learn the differences. Ketron however, is still not really clear to me.. especially styles stuff. But on the other hand, voices on Event sound just stunning in my ears.

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline terryB

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #701 on: January 29, 2023, 12:41:12 PM »
Note the price excludes VAT, thats +20% in the UK. What about import duty?
How much will a module version be ? I wonder, that could be of interest to some.
Cheers Terry
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #702 on: January 29, 2023, 02:17:04 PM »
Hi Bogdan :

I agree the sound quality looks to be OK ( ... in the video's ) ;).
 
In most cases each individual experienced customer will not buy a high end arranger if he/she is not familiar with the instrument ( yet ), right ?
At least he/she wants to hear, play and test the instrument ( in the shop ) thoroughly before he/she will decide whether or not he/she will spend more than 5,000,-- Euro's.
An enduser wants also to know the warranty conditions, the situation of the service after sale, where in his/her region it can be bought etc., I guess.

Apparently, as we heard often in this thread, for the time being, there are only a few Ketron dealers in the world compared to Korg and Yamaha.
Yesterday we have found out ( see Mark's last report ) how Canadian ( ex ) Ketron dealers' impressions and experiences are described.
It looks like they are no longer interested in selling Ketron's arrangers. 

Why should a traditional Yamaha or a Korg customer buy an expensive Ketron/Event ?
I cannot answer that question now, sorry  ::)

Best regards, JH
 
« Last Edit: January 29, 2023, 02:49:17 PM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #703 on: January 29, 2023, 03:23:07 PM »
Hey Uday :

There is no reason why the new Yamaha high end arranger will be called "cheap ". :)
 
It might be possible the new one will be 10% higher ( or even higher, who knows ? ) in price than the present Genos' price.
As long as the new Yamaha keyboard's customer gets what he/she expected, IMHO.

BTW, we have to keep in mind the second hand price of a Yamaha arranger has never disappointed, right ? ;)

Best wishes, JH
 

Online Bill

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #704 on: January 29, 2023, 04:09:06 PM »
Ketron however, is still not really clear to me.. especially styles stuff. But on the other hand, voices on Event sound just stunning in my ears.

Bogdan

Hi Bogdan
Latest video from AJ - Ketron America,  First and last parts are just playing. The middle section is a tutorial on STYLES.

https://youtu.be/HRTKta4MZ3Q

Another no talking styles demo.

https://youtu.be/hiWZF85LXAA


Bill
« Last Edit: January 29, 2023, 04:33:50 PM by Bill »
England

Current KB:  YAMAHA GENOS 2
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #705 on: January 29, 2023, 05:55:43 PM »
...
At least he/she wants to hear, play and test the instrument ( in the shop ) thoroughly before he/she will decide whether or not he/she will spend more than 5,000,-- Euro's.
...
-agree on that.
And that's my main concern (not that I'm into buying right now, though). It is a lot of money and there should be a chance to actually see and "touch it" (you know what I mean) before buying.
On the other hand, from what I can see in general on internet, I don't doubt Ketron quality. So I think, it also depends on feedback from actual owners (objective/honest reviews and tutorial examples).
Time will tell  :)

@Bill
Yes, I watched that AJ video yesterday and it is one of the best so far (I was quite impressed). Hopefully we get more of that soon. Darn.. what am I talking about... I don't have money for TOTL keyboard  :o ::) :-\ ;D

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #706 on: January 29, 2023, 07:57:39 PM »
Hey Bogdan :

Do not worry. It is only a hobby !

You have a very nice, modern and professional arranger keyboard : a Yamaha SX700. :)
Enjoy it and have fun every day.

An expensive arranger NEVER made a person a better musician.

In my perception playing music is much more important.

I am still very happy with my Ty4 and my 3 guitars.
It would be very painful for me if I had to say goodbye to one of my instruments ... I simply love them.

Of course in my heart I want the latest technology and the best sound. I am a dreamer.
But I cannot have it all. ;)

Like you I admire Alois Müller.
He is a very professional musician, a great player and looks to be a nice person.

Take care, my friend !
All the best, JH






Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #707 on: January 29, 2023, 08:06:30 PM »
Quote
An expensive arranger NEVER made a person a better musician.
Actually it does, Jeff. Of course, I know that you meant - practicing is the true key to mastering the keyboard. You're 100% right. But having a TOTL keyboard makes it easier to explore music you never thought possible.
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #708 on: January 29, 2023, 08:56:53 PM »
@Jeff
In general I am happy with my keyboard and I still think I made a good decision by buying it. But I'm a dreamer too.. and when I see new TOTL keyboard to come, I just hope that a piece of that technology will also land in future mid-range keyboards... which might be dangerous for my wallet  ;)
Anyway, I try to be rational and if at all, then I will only buy new keyboard if there are substantial improvements that I find useful for me.

Best wishes,
Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline Amwilburn

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #709 on: January 29, 2023, 09:12:37 PM »
Mark :

Thank you very much for your feedback.

It looks like only a few ( worldwide & European ) dealers
might have the intention to sell the Ketron/Event in the near future ?
🥺
Time will tell ...
JH
Well, I found this:

https://ketronamerica.com/dealers.html

But I don't know how out of date it is; if you click "contact us" it gives a 404 page not found, if you click products, no Event, newest is the SD60 (2018 ish) that I'd mentioned (you have to drop down from SD9 (2015-ish)for some reason). So kind of odd that Ketron American still has no mention of the Event? The website still lists the SD9 as new (which launched around 2015)

Mark

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #710 on: January 29, 2023, 09:19:18 PM »
Bogdan
Good to hear that ! Thank you.

Lee
You are absolutely right : a top instrument makes life for a good musician a lot easier and offers much more possibilities to make a good musician even better.
For professionals like you it is a must.

Best regards, Jeff
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #711 on: January 29, 2023, 10:19:04 PM »
Hey Mark :

Apparently it looks like Ketron is capable to produce a good product but Ketron still is a small Italian local ( family ? ) company ( lack of a professional marketing - and distribution departement, etc. ? ).
International business might be a serious problem for Ketron, dealers and endusers. It cannot be solved due their present structure, IMHO.

JH







« Last Edit: January 30, 2023, 08:41:14 AM by Jeff Hollande »
 

keynote

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #712 on: January 30, 2023, 12:50:25 AM »
That CVP809 demo is pretty awesome! For me it actually doesn't seem THAT much to have dropped an additional 5K on top of the PA5X I bought and to then have a near perfect digital piano with speakers as well. I'm pretty dissatisfied with the Korg for the price I paid. I keep telling myself to give it a go again but I'm just too obsessed with the Genos. I see the CVP has reg buttons. It would have been a deal breaker if it didn't. The PA5x I just find almost unusable without it. I can't setup songs the way I want.

Edit:
Hmmm this doesn't look good for me personally. Nothing seems to beat the digital Kawai actions... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEKFGkR6KAk&t=278s&ab_channel=BonnersPianos%26Keyboards

Hi AndrewKeyz, the video link you posted is a comparison between the Yamaha CLP685 vs Kawai CS11, 5 years ago, which is before the CVP-809 was released to the public. I haven't played a CVP-809 myself, but looking at the YouTube video I posted previously seemed to suggest the key action was not overly heavy. If there is anyone on the forum who has played a CVP-809, maybe they could chime in and fill us in regarding the key action. 🎹

PS: Correction: price for the CVP-809 at the Piano Guys Piano Shop in Gilbert, AZ is actually the same price as on Sweetwater.com. Sweetwater does have the Polished Ebony Finish in Stock and they do ship internationally and they have free shipping on most items, but I'm not sure about the CVP-809 since bulkier items don't ship free but arguably @ 185 lbs the CVP-809 doesn't seem that heavy compared to, say, a Hammond B3 organ, etc.  ;)

All the best, Mike 
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #713 on: January 30, 2023, 03:21:04 AM »
Hi AndrewKeyz, the video link you posted is a comparison between the Yamaha CLP685 vs Kawai CS11, 5 years ago, which is before the CVP-809 was released to the public. I haven't played a CVP-809 myself, but looking at the YouTube video I posted previously seemed to suggest the key action was not overly heavy. If there is anyone on the forum who has played a CVP-809, maybe they could chime in and fill us in regarding the key action. 🎹

PS: Correction: price for the CVP-809 at the Piano Guys Piano Shop in Gilbert, AZ is actually the same price as on Sweetwater.com. Sweetwater does have the Polished Ebony Finish in Stock and they do ship internationally and they have free shipping on most items, but I'm not sure about the CVP-809 since bulkier items don't ship free but arguably @ 185 lbs the CVP-809 doesn't seem that heavy compared to, say, a Hammond B3 organ, etc.  ;)

All the best, Mike
Thanks Mike, ultimately the best thing for me to do will be to have a go at these keybeds myself. Hopefully I can manage to try out a number of keybeds this coming Saturday: CVP 809, MP11SE, ES920, Nord Grand etc. I was extremely disappointed with the RD2000 (too heavy action and the light setting didn't really improve things), that came highly recommended and I didn't like the usage at all, and now the PA5X88 which in my opinion has an awful keybed that is breaking after very light use. I feel a huge disconnect with playing on that and making music. It seems a struggle somehow, which I'm not sure is just the PA5X or the keybed ruining it. I've heard other complaints about Fatar in general, especially from pianists. I'm surprised it is so bad to be honest after all they are used in many controllers etc. I wish Korg would have gone with something that was universally more liked, like a Kawai ES920 keybed maybe? I've seen some mentions that Korg's own 88 weighted keybeds on some of their recent products are quite liked, so really don't understand the Fatar thing at all. Maybe a weight, cost or resources issue. Best one I've used in the past was a Kawai CA67, which I appreciate is a near real piano action and would never go into a portable arranger.

Will see if the Yamaha GrandTouch is any better than my RD2000 was and closer to that Kawai. It certainly won't be as bad as the PA5X I'm betting.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2023, 03:26:28 AM by AndrewKeyz »
Without Music, Life would be a Mistake.

Check out my Genos recordings & performances: http://www.youtube.com/andrewkeyz
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #714 on: January 30, 2023, 07:45:10 AM »
I think Yamaha had gone as far as it wanted with expansion packs and there are so many third party packs around now to buy. They probably decided they could invest the money spent on this side into the development of future keyboards.

As we all know midi styles are easily to extract and edit.
Audio styles cannot even be extracted. ::)

No longer expansion packs nor audio styles for me.
Back to Yamaha's roots.

Hopefully a new Yamaha high end arranger keyboard equipped with the technological knowledge and input of 2025.  :D
A brand new midi editing win/mac software programme would also be very welcome. A very good additional and useful tool, IMO.

Am I dreaming ? ;D

Best wishes, JH
« Last Edit: January 30, 2023, 08:18:08 AM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #715 on: January 30, 2023, 01:13:20 PM »
You're not dreaming, Jeff.

I think the Genos needs some serious upgrades but I don't think these upgrades need to be classified as a "total redesign." For me, there are only a few key components that Yamaha must look at. With Korg and Ketron, it seems they almost re-invented the wheel because their prior models couldn't compare to the Genos. Time will tell.
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #716 on: January 30, 2023, 02:49:45 PM »
Thank you, Lee, for your comments.👍

Up to now we did not hear, except a few reactions as far as the PA5X is concerned, any reactions from endusers.
I understand Korg's PA5X updates are not finished yet and Ketron's
Event is not even in the hands of one customer. ::)
We do not know ( yet ) when all competitors' new arrangers will finally be in the market.
Our first Event impressions are only based on video's presented on Youtube. Are these video's made by professionals ? I cannot answer that question, sorry.
The present PA5X reactions from traditional Korg customers are not so positive ( see Korg's Forums ) like most of us might think they are.
Now many people are all waiting for Yamaha's answer before most endusers will decide to place an order, I guess.
Let us cross our fingers Yamaha will be the best choice for all endusers. ;)

Bye for now, JH


 
« Last Edit: January 30, 2023, 03:42:05 PM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #717 on: January 30, 2023, 04:04:37 PM »
All good points, Jeff. You wrote, "Our first Event impressions are only based on video's presented on YouTube. Are these video's made by professionals?"

I haven't seen one video that I would classify as made by a pro player. Regardless of their skill levels, all these players are just "tinkering" around. There's very little actual demonstrations of what this thing can do and how it's done. Perhaps it's eons ahead of every other arranger but how do we know? You can't sell expensive products through the use of teaser videos done by non-pro players. This is a stain on Ketron's marketing skills. They may have ruined their big release by not being first to the demo party the way Yamaha did with the Genos and all their earlier keyboards.

I also think that when Yamaha comes close to releasing their Genos 2, the should leak out some teaser videos...oh wait, I think they do that 😀!
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline mikf

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #718 on: January 30, 2023, 05:23:10 PM »
if you look at the Ketron website, they state their mission is to design instruments for ‘solo performers and amateurs’. Interesting that they put solo performers first.
Mike
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #719 on: January 30, 2023, 05:30:09 PM »
True, Mike. I wouldn't have used the word, "amateur."
Perhaps, "recreational players," "home players," "off stage players" or "for fun players."
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline pjd

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #720 on: January 30, 2023, 06:14:50 PM »
True, Mike. I wouldn't have used the word, "amateur."
Perhaps, "recreational players," "home players," "off stage players" or "for fun players."

It's a shame that the word "amateur" has taken a negative connotation. It once meant "lover of art". And the way it is now used and abused in sports!  :o Yikes!  >:(

-- pj

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #721 on: January 30, 2023, 06:33:06 PM »
Hi Guys :

All my competitors' questions are answered now.
Too many question marks and too many doubts are very confusing.

My personal conclusion :
There is absolutely no reason why on earth I should leave Yamaha.
Amen.

Best wishes, JH



« Last Edit: February 01, 2023, 06:08:52 PM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #722 on: February 01, 2023, 04:49:16 PM »
It's a shame that the word "amateur" has taken a negative connotation. It once meant "lover of art". And the way it is now used and abused in sports!  :o Yikes!  >:(

-- pj

I am not am not a half wit " I am a complete idiot "!!! 8) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #723 on: February 01, 2023, 07:02:51 PM »
Not possible John. You figured how to record the Genos to a DAW. That makes you a genius ;D!
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 
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Offline mikf

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #724 on: February 03, 2023, 09:23:30 AM »
It's a shame that the word "amateur" has taken a negative connotation. It once meant "lover of art". And the way it is now used and abused in sports!  :o Yikes!  >:(

-- pj
I have seen it written many times on the forum that the amateur and professional should be used to designate those who make a living as a musician, or those who do not, rather than competence level. But in fact this is incorrect. Although that is one meaning, use of the word professional to denote someone who has high level of skill, even if unpaid, and amateur to denote incompetence even if they are paid, are both legitimate uses of the words. English Dictionaries have contained those definitions for many years. I don’t know when it first started to be used that way, but I would think, more than hundred years, and it is now very common.
Mike

Offline ton37

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #725 on: February 03, 2023, 10:22:03 AM »
Thank you for attempting to define the use of these terms, @mikf. This seems to me a very plausible description to use. Of course for what it's worth, but for semantics it's good to use it correctly. The problem can be: when is it considered that someone has so many 'skills' that this indicates the boundary between the 2 definitions 'Professional or Amateur'.  I assume this refers purely to playing technique and virtuosity/finger dexterity, not how you use the functions and possibilities of your (advanced) keyboard. Seen from my level, almost everyone here is 'professional'  ;D It doesn't bother me, the 'fun'-dimension is independent of whether you are 'amateur or professional'.  ;)
My best regards,
Ton
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #726 on: February 03, 2023, 10:40:56 AM »
Hi Mike :

The original French word "amateur " has different meanings.
Might be negative or positive. All depends on the content of the text.

Apparently in this case Ketron made a big mistake by using the English word "amateur ".
I have the impression Ketron's Marketing Departement might be "amateurish ". ;)

JH
 
« Last Edit: February 03, 2023, 11:08:51 AM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #727 on: February 03, 2023, 11:16:01 AM »
I have seen it written many times on the forum that the amateur and professional should be used to designate those who make a living as a musician, or those who do not, rather than competence level. But in fact this is incorrect. Although that is one meaning, use of the word professional to denote someone who has high level of skill, even if unpaid, and amateur to denote incompetence even if they are paid, are both legitimate uses of the words. English Dictionaries have contained those definitions for many years. I don’t know when it first started to be used that way, but I would think, more than hundred years, and it is now very common.
Mike

Hi Lee
Genos and Cubase
I have learnt so much on the mix side in Cubase now all by trial and error.
I go over and over the same song making different approaches .
Now nearly all mistakes overcome.
I lke Ian Sheppards advice , Mixing and mastering is like peeling an onion.
Work by doing a few layers at a time to uncover what comes next until you have no onion Left!! ;D.
Once mixing a song every move you make with compression and limiting can change parts of a song.
I have used AB referencing with a commercial track and that sorts the Tonal balance, then there is dynamics.
This is where i slipped up and now have sorted that.
Once i get a workflow going i will be away with the fairies
The big thing is as long as you get a strong recording input on the Genos , you are almost there.
It takes a long time to realize it.
It is all about small moves in Cubase which makes the big difference.
I would like to know, why does it take so long for the penny to drop.
Oh well, i am not a master yet but happy having a good go at it
What!!"Me an amateur"!! "nah"!!  "i'm Van Gogh"!!!! ;D ;D
i would be better being Van Gaal. At least i can kick a ball!! 8)


All the best
John :)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2023, 11:27:44 AM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #728 on: February 03, 2023, 11:23:56 AM »
Hi John :

Some people call " Mixing and Mastering " an Art not a Science.  :)

All the best, JH
 
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Offline ugawoga

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #729 on: February 03, 2023, 11:29:01 AM »
Hi John :

Some people call " Mixing and Mastering " an Art not a Science.  :)

All the best, JH
Thank god that takes the amateur away out of the equation ;D ;)
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline DrakeM

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #730 on: February 03, 2023, 12:15:58 PM »
Hi John :

Some people call " Mixing and Mastering " an Art not a Science.  :)

All the best, JH

Not anymore it's simple to do with a free AI online service.

https://www.bandlab.com/mastering

This guy's video convinced me. I could tell the difference in the A/B test at the end of his video.
The time he spent verses the final result wasn't worth the difference (IMO). 8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfev8CifjRY

Regards
Drake




« Last Edit: February 03, 2023, 02:41:19 PM by DrakeM »
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #731 on: February 03, 2023, 01:43:29 PM »
Hi John:
Some people call " Mixing and Mastering " an Art not a Science.  :)
All the best, JH
True Jeff. Mixing and mastering is an art but those who do must use science as a tool 😀.
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #732 on: February 03, 2023, 02:05:38 PM »
I remember years ago, mixing my first CD with my music partner in my home studio. I had no studio monitors, just computer speakers, and an onboard sound interface - some cheap piece of garbage. My DAW was the free version of Cubase that came with my Tyros 2. I recorded my backing tracks as pure audio, which made editing out glowing errors basically impossible. I had to do several takes for the complex stuff.

To establish the final mix level, I played a Michael Buble CD over my speakers and measured how loud his songs were - both his quiet songs and screaming brass tracks, using an analog dB meter from Radio Shack. I played back my background scores with the vocals and raised the level to the same levels heard from the Buble CD. It worked. We sold over 500 of those CDs!

John, you are absolutely correct that when you have such sophisticated tools that we have today, one small tweak here causes something to change over there. It's all about compromise. My friend used to be the chief speaker designer at Yorkville Sound just east of Toronto. He told me that they would use computer software to design a perfect response curve for a speaker. They would build the prototype and then test the response and it would sound terrible. They often altered the design to match human hearing, where the computer simulation showed that the design was totally wrong. These tools we have are amazing but my final meter stick is my ears. Make sure you take several breaks between adjustments. If you listen to the same tracks over and over again, they'll eventually sound right when in fact, they're terrible.

Side note
This topic has drifted in many directions, hence why it's now 15 pages and growing. I submit that such threads are very productive because it gets us all thinking about music in general, and that's what we are all about. At one point, it was thought that this thread should be shut down because it drifted too far off the target. My hat's off to the moderators for not doing so. These are all healthy discussions 😀!
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline EileenL

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #733 on: February 03, 2023, 02:15:25 PM »
I think most people agree that playing music comes from the heart and feeling put into the piece is all part of the enjoyment of listening.
 I don't want to listen to music that tries to sound like the CD. I can go out and buy it if I like it. I am a believer in keeping live music live. To me you can't beat it.

Offline mikf

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #734 on: February 03, 2023, 03:09:39 PM »
I’ve heard people listen to music and say “what a great song”, or “boy that guy can play” or “what a great arrangement”, or “ what a great voice” - but never heard anyone say “what a great mix”.!!
Mike

Offline DrakeM

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #735 on: February 03, 2023, 05:42:12 PM »
I’ve heard people listen to music and say “what a great song”, or “boy that guy can play” or “what a great arrangement”, or “ what a great voice” - but never heard anyone say “what a great mix”.!!
Mike

Maybe not but I have heard "that is s#%& mix" from my wife.  ;)

She gives out free good advise by the way.

Offline Amwilburn

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #736 on: February 03, 2023, 06:19:35 PM »
Not anymore it's simple to do with a free AI online service.

https://www.bandlab.com/mastering

This guy's video convinced me. I could tell the difference in the A/B test at the end of his video.
The time he spent verses the final result wasn't worth the difference (IMO). 8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfev8CifjRY

Regards
Drake
Thanks for finding this!

I don't know which was which, but A sounded more 'alive' and B sounded rather flat and lifeless to me, so very big difference between the 2 mixes. Having said that, if AI can generate passing university level homework, I've no doubt it could learn to mix. A cool *free* option for those who don't have time/ don't want to master.

Mark

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #737 on: February 04, 2023, 07:47:36 AM »
Hi Guys :

As I said before Mixing and Mastering might be called an Art ... but, Lee B is right : the ( deep ) knowledge of the ( modern ) audio recording technology is absolutely a must.
In pro recording studio's Mixing and Mastering are mostly done ( together ) by the producer and the audio engineer(s).

If the quality of each individual recorded track is not good it is almost impossible to make a perfect Mixing and/or Mastering.
IMHO the total Mixing and Mastering activity might be a " professional " Art ? ;)

BTW ...
Home recording is a hot item today and could be very interesting/attractive for home players and giggers.
BUT ... even very good home recordings are still called ( by professionals ) : demo recordings.

Attachment : photo of the EW Recording Studio's in Hollywood/USA. WOW ! :)

Best regards, JH
« Last Edit: February 04, 2023, 10:01:46 AM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #738 on: February 04, 2023, 10:13:43 AM »
I think most musicians possibly worry a bit too much about mastering than might be necessary. I've done that a lot in the past. And what has rightly been pointed out hardly any of the listeners will care about the mix / mastering much.

The sound that comes out of a Genos with its in built recorder is already excellent. Pumping it through an automated mastering tool will improve it a bit, there is no denying, but it's doubtful someone listening to your recording will care much whether you did that or not.

Consider many of us listen to most music in compressed format these days.

At the same time (and bringing this back to arranger talk), if you DO want to go down the uncompressed format route and make your music sound the best it can possibly be and possibly master things afterwards, I find it truly shocking that the likes of the PA5X cannot even record to Wav, only MP3. Even an SX600 can record to Wav on external USB.
Utterly pathetic from Korg for £4000 in my opinion.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2023, 10:25:53 AM by AndrewKeyz »
Without Music, Life would be a Mistake.

Check out my Genos recordings & performances: http://www.youtube.com/andrewkeyz
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #739 on: February 04, 2023, 10:52:19 AM »
Hey Andrew :

IMO most listeners do not care about Mixing & Mastering. They are listening to the song. If they like the song it might become a hit.
Most musicians do care, I guess. ;)

Automated Mastering might be very risky. The human ear is still the best tool to have the greatest results, IMHO.

In the past all mixing and mastering were done by ear.
After all these years I am still surprised by the super sound quality of some good old songs. Timeless.

All the best, JH
« Last Edit: February 04, 2023, 11:17:30 AM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #740 on: February 05, 2023, 04:59:03 PM »
Shame these videos are never in English but obviously you can get the gist easily here after initial minutes of blabbering.

I do like these lock features I must say. I think only really useful if you can quickly select with registrations for certain parts in songs and then move on. But a good feature anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVKfSpCd5ug&ab_channel=BartekKrzemi%C5%84ski
Without Music, Life would be a Mistake.

Check out my Genos recordings & performances: http://www.youtube.com/andrewkeyz
 

Offline usaraiya

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #741 on: February 05, 2023, 06:37:52 PM »
Shame these videos are never in English but obviously you can get the gist easily here after initial minutes of blabbering.

I do like these lock features I must say. I think only really useful if you can quickly select with registrations for certain parts in songs and then move on. But a good feature anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVKfSpCd5ug&ab_channel=BartekKrzemi%C5%84ski

In the video, go to settings, subtitles and choose English, and there you have the English translation of the entire video!

Uday


 

Offline Amwilburn

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #742 on: February 05, 2023, 07:57:11 PM »
Real bass & chord lock *is* a very cool feature, although real bass can sort of be achieved on existing arrangers by simply octaving the bass. Real chord however, isn't so easy to do!

Mark
« Last Edit: February 05, 2023, 08:50:45 PM by Amwilburn »
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #743 on: February 05, 2023, 11:51:50 PM »
Hi
From what i have learnt so far is that these auto fix Master online tools do not cut the mustard if your mix is not up to a good standard.
The saying is that you cannot polish a turd. ;D
I personally do not like the online auto fixes.
The other thing is if a mastering mix is fantastic and nobody notices, that means the job is done properly.
I do notice a great mix from a ordinary one and that is why i strive to do the best that i can and it is all coming together now.
I have just got rid of my Marantz PM6003 hi-fi stereo amp and upgraded to The Marantz PM7000N and wow, the music and the detail coming out of my speakers is fantastic. Still some people prefer a transister radio . Yo can't win e'm all. ::) :P
I like to hear detail in music, but others are not bothered. So it really is down to what is your poison.
Eileen is happy with live playing and so am i , but i also like to make multi-tracks and go into detail in my Man cave ::) 8)
I will soon put some music up and hopefully it has progressed.
I do play a whole song and record on the Genos. I practice a song for a few days and then go for a one hit on the Genos .
This way keeps the human touch.
I then transport to Cubase and do some edits.
If i want more detail, i will put back into the Genos and do more tracks.
After that mix in Cubase and finish with Ozone 10.
It is great mixing your own music, much better that the auto mixing overlords online. Drop & Go!! ::) ;D
My pennies worth now is that you have to AB your music with a similar sounding track and dynamics and tonal balance is a must.
Automate volumes and stereo image in Cubase and learn EQ, Compression and Limiting.
I also find that Room Correction by Sonarworks is 100% in my Square room of death :-[ :-[ :P
« Last Edit: February 05, 2023, 11:53:03 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Joe H

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #744 on: February 06, 2023, 03:49:25 PM »
Mixing is an art.  You either have it or you don't (a good ear).  Sorry... but that's the way it is. There are things pros can learn about how to apply effects processors, panning, how to blend the instruments and vocals (volumes) and the like.  So some learning is necessary, buy you still have to have a good ear.

 :'(

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #745 on: February 06, 2023, 04:43:31 PM »
Good point, Joe. And after you become good at mixing and mastering, there's still the HUGE variables with which you have no control:

1) Personal taste of the listeners' music.
2) Speaker quality. Low end speakers will appeal to some but those who have high end speakers will require impeccable results and if they don't get them, they'll blame the mixing and mastering person.
3) Signal source. Is it a CD, DVD, Blue Ray, Netflix, YouTube, or some other format like mp3, Wave? In this digital world, it's next to impossible to cover all the bases. No matter what, your mix is going to sound great or horrible.
4) Compression rate of the source signal. YouTube still can't get it right. Their sound levels are all over the map, and the quality is either pretty good or terrible.

Mixing and mastering techs are really up against the wall on this stuff. They must deal in averages, not absolutes like their forefathers in the 60s and 70s.
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #746 on: February 07, 2023, 06:14:27 AM »
Nowadays we do not hear very much from Ketron ...

The first ( promised ) December 2022 Event's delivery has been postponed.
Some dealers make us believe potential customers have to wait another 4-6 weeks, others say : " delivery time unknown ".

Problems perhaps ?  ::)
Only time will tell, I guess.

JH
« Last Edit: February 07, 2023, 06:56:03 AM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #747 on: February 07, 2023, 08:46:41 AM »
DV247.com has it listed at 21st of April now. Thomann.de says 5-7 weeks.

So nobody is going to get it till then Jeff?
Without Music, Life would be a Mistake.

Check out my Genos recordings & performances: http://www.youtube.com/andrewkeyz
 

Offline kiplis

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #748 on: February 07, 2023, 09:11:00 AM »
Hi.

Yes, has being postponed, once again. But, the good news is the new price  ;D ;D ;D

https://www.musicstore.com/en_NO/NOK/Ketron-EVENT/art-KEY0005700-000

"Ordered, estimated to be in stock: Apr 21, 2023 "
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #749 on: February 07, 2023, 02:51:12 PM »
Hi.

Yes, has being postponed, once again. But, the good news is the new price  ;D ;D ;D

https://www.musicstore.com/en_NO/NOK/Ketron-EVENT/art-KEY0005700-000

"Ordered, estimated to be in stock: Apr 21, 2023 "

Thank you for the link.

The Event might be expected on Aprli 21, 2023 ( source : Music Store - Germany ).
01. A firm delivery date has not been confirmed by Ketron yet, right ?   
02. The enduser's unit price has been lowered by Euro 800,- ! From E 4,999 to E 4,200 ... a lot of money though. :P

It could be interesting for potential buyers ( ? ) to find out why Ketron have postponed the Event's estimated delivery time for the second time and why they have drastically decreased their unit price without prior notice

An unusual policy, IMHO. ;)
Best regards, JH

« Last Edit: February 07, 2023, 04:44:59 PM by Jeff Hollande »