Author Topic: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron  (Read 154440 times)

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Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #600 on: January 16, 2023, 10:48:23 AM »
Very good advise, Chris ! :)

At least a home player should first try out your suggestions as far as the original Yamaha keyboard speakers are concerned, IMO.

Best wishes,

JH
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #601 on: January 16, 2023, 11:03:15 AM »
..perhaps it should be a good idea to change the Genos "mickey mouse" ie. GNS-MS01 speakers to...
Disclaimer: I haven't (couldn't) decide for external speakers yet.
I've watched many reviews and at this price range, my choice will probably be KRK Rokit 5-G4 (or Presonus Eris E5 as second choice).
My conclusion is, that all these (similar priced) 5" active monitors sound quite similar -which is to be expected. So it comes down to built & material quality (brand we trust) and features we prefer -and many times minor details can matter a lot!
Example: most active monitors have "auto-standby" feature. That is, if there's no signal after certain period of time, speaker goes into standby and when we start playing again, speaker turns back on. The problem is (or can be), there's certain delay before speaker is ready again -this is problem for some, but not for others.

What I like about KRK (besides hopefully sounding good as they say) is:
-standby time can be adjusted (or disabled)
-it has class D amplifier built in (less power draw and less heat dissipated  than class A/B amplifier -sound quality pretty much the same, though)
-bass vent is on front side (bass comes directly to listener and so speaker position doesn't matter much)

What I dislike:
-yellow speaker membranes,
-price... one should always complain about that, right?  :)

As other have mentioned, connecting unbalanced output to balanced input isn't a problem if cables are not too long (say, 2-3m).

Finally... I think GNS-MS01 can't be compared to stereo studio monitors. In case of GNS-MS01, we always hear bass from direction where subwoofer is placed -regardless of how much L or R  bass (drum, piano, etc.) is defined inside style.

Just sharing my thoughts,
Bogdan
« Last Edit: January 21, 2023, 05:27:06 PM by BogdanH »
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #602 on: January 16, 2023, 11:32:09 AM »
Hi Guys :

When I am reading your Yamaha's original external keyboard speakers' comments ( Tyros and Genos ), I wonder why Yamaha are still selling these kind of speakers whilst Yamaha are producing and selling different, high quality speakers ?

JH
« Last Edit: January 16, 2023, 11:33:51 AM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Offline DerekA

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #603 on: January 16, 2023, 12:18:14 PM »
However as with any audio backing, the novelty for me wore off rather quickly once I had heard a selection of the styles and a few videos using this feature. Real performances of solo instruments such as harmonica and sax in the intros and endings clearly give that 'whooo' factor the first time you hear them, but seriously I cannot see that novelty lasting very long. However if there's some highly intelligent  arranging that completely changes those solo lines then it would be interesting.

I agree. I can see after a (short) while any complex audio phrases in the backing would become irritating. On the Genos, I often switch off overly fiddly or noticeable style parts.
Genos
 

Offline kiplis

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #604 on: January 16, 2023, 12:27:01 PM »
Hi all, and thank you for your comments, I agree with all of you.

I have used GNS-MS01 now for three years. Before that I had similar boxes for Tyros 5. I have also had separate studio monitors in the past for Tyros 3 and Ketron.
The only reason to use mickey mouse speakers is, that they are modest in size, and easy to place on top of the instrument. And yes, I have adjusted the EQ to my liking, and added already a 8" sub-woofer, so now my "boom" is right. How ever, the instruments does not sound quite right from the small "ears". That is why I am looking for studio monitors.
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #605 on: January 16, 2023, 01:56:07 PM »
IMHO the present Tyros and Genos satelittes are not looking bad on the instrument and  ... a woofer ... is needed.

Maybe Yamaha should redesign the complete speaker set after 20 years and improve the sound quality ? Expensive set, I guess. ::)

JH
« Last Edit: January 16, 2023, 01:58:09 PM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Offline kiplis

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #606 on: January 16, 2023, 01:57:47 PM »
So, KRK ROKIT RP5 G4 Studio Monitors are ordered, and on their way.
I will let you know my experience about them soonest  ;D
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #607 on: January 16, 2023, 02:26:40 PM »
Congrats for your purchase.. I really hope you won't regret.
Yes, please let us know what your impression is!

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #608 on: January 18, 2023, 08:39:43 AM »
https://www.ketron.it/prodotto/event#1617885421095-217f0beb-a7cf

Hi Guys :

This morning I opened the above mentioned English ( see : Inglese ) Event Manual.
This arranger does not have multipads, am I wrong ?  :P

Best regards, JH
« Last Edit: January 18, 2023, 08:43:21 AM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Offline EileenL

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #609 on: January 18, 2023, 01:22:00 PM »
I find the screen a little messy. No dedicated registration button. No Multi Pads. Only Two right hand voices. Definitely not for me.

Offline kiplis

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #610 on: January 18, 2023, 01:58:50 PM »
Considering preliminary information, the price may not be justified, IMHO...
The market for this keyboard may be quite limited, specially if you think about
the dealer network and service.

While waiting news from Yamaha (or perhaps one should take a look at Korg Pa5x).

Take care

-Kiplis-
 

Offline jwyvern

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #611 on: January 18, 2023, 02:53:17 PM »
If you read page 13 it tells you the following:

EVENT allows you to play in real time up to three parts simultaneously (VOICE 1, VOICE 2
and DRAWBAR) on the right side with the split point active, or across the entire range of the
keyboards with split deactivated, i.e., in PIANIST mode. The VOICE 1 and VOICE 2 parts are
made up of one to three sounds each, thanks to three freely assignable oscillators per voice
part. The DRAWBAR voice is dedicated exclusively to the organ sound and can be played in
conjunction with the VOICE 1 and VOICE 2 parts – that is 7 lead voices in total!

So it does NOT have "only" 2 voices like the older PSR's but is capable of layering more sounds to right of split than Genos.
Later it goes on to say that 3x Lower voices to left of split are also available, so the overall layering possibilities are way above the capability of Genos. I haven't gone any further (eg. looking into the equivalent of pads) because I am not currently so interested in the Ketron, but anyone who is genuinely interested, should read the manual carefully to determine what it really is capable of.

John
« Last Edit: January 18, 2023, 03:40:57 PM by jwyvern »
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #612 on: January 18, 2023, 09:22:45 PM »
I don’t know if it’s exactly the same topic, but a Genos voice has 8 layers in YEM. Each layer can be associated with a sound. So 4 * 8 layers simultaneously for left and right hands

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #613 on: January 19, 2023, 04:57:54 AM »
Hello.
I am following the discussion that is evolves but I do not want (for many reasons) to intervene. But because sometimes things are said that are not true, I have to say certain things.

1) The Event has two separate sections of sounds on the Right hand: VOICE 1 and VOICE 2 and a separate digital Full DRAWBAR Organ on each VOICE. Each VOICE has up to 3 sounds (Multisample) where each has up to 4 stereo or mono layers so we have in total up to 12 velocity layers per VOICE.
Of course, Genos (and Yamaha in general) has a much more powerful sound engine when it comes to layers. Yamaha doesn't only have 8 layers as you said before, but it has 8 Elements (Oscillator) where theoretically we have no limitation in layers, i.e., up to 128 layers per Element.
And I use the term (theoretically) because practically it is impossible because polyphony will not hold.
But the Yamaha does not have an onboard sampler and those of us who use it know very well that it is unthinkable for an instrument like the Genos not to have an onboard sampler. This means that even if there is an error in a sample, all the work must be done from the beginning (correction in YEM and package export and installation again in Genos.

2) Event has a Registration button just to enter the registration section because everything else is done virtually from the screen.
Thanks.
 
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Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #614 on: January 19, 2023, 07:13:57 AM »
Hi Sokratis :

Many thanks for your feedback.

We all have to wait for the Genos' successor before we are comparing apples and oranges ( 2017 / 2023 ). ;)
BTW, up to now it looks like the Event is not in the hands of the endusers yet !

Apparently we might expect the new high end Yamaha arranger at the end of 2023, early 2024.
Then it might be the right time to analyze and compare both competitive arrangers, IMHO. Right ?

Best regards, JH


 

Offline BogdanH

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #615 on: January 19, 2023, 09:29:31 AM »
Thank you Sokratis.
I'm not that familiar with voice "structures" and so I'm still tapping in the dark. If someone says keyboard has two voices for right hand, then for me (Yamaha owner) that means just that: I can play two different voices at once (i.e. Piano and Strings). At this point I'm not that interested on complexity (layers) of voices. As far I understand, voice layers improve voice reproduction (i.e. for expression & articulation), but outcome is still a single voice/instrument (on single channel). I know there might be more behind this, but my point is: Yamaha has 3 right hand voices and Event has 2, which shows Yamaha in better light -at least for "average" keyboard player.
But now comes "each voice has up to 3 sounds" and here I'm lost.. what exactly does that mean?

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline Duffy

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #616 on: January 19, 2023, 10:04:11 AM »
Thank you Sokratis.
I'm not that familiar with voice "structures" and so I'm still tapping in the dark. If someone says keyboard has two voices for right hand, then for me (Yamaha owner) that means just that: I can play two different voices at once (i.e. Piano and Strings). At this point I'm not that interested on complexity (layers) of voices. As far I understand, voice layers improve voice reproduction (i.e. for expression & articulation), but outcome is still a single voice/instrument (on single channel). I know there might be more behind this, but my point is: Yamaha has 3 right hand voices and Event has 2, which shows Yamaha in better light -at least for "average" keyboard player.
But now comes "each voice has up to 3 sounds" and here I'm lost.. what exactly does that mean?

Bogdan

It may help to say  that I have a very old Ketron (Solton) MS 40 module  (about 25 years old) and, for one right hand voice,  I have it programmed with 4 voices to play Big orchestral sounds with lots of strings and I can assure you that modern keyboards, Yamaha Genso, Korg, even my beloved Technics KN 7000 cannot come near these sounds. Not wise to compare something you know to something unknown.  Ketron really are very clever in some ways so don't underestimate what you can do with 2 voices.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2023, 10:16:14 AM by Duffy »
 

Offline Mark

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #617 on: January 19, 2023, 01:28:12 PM »
AJ has published some in-depth tutorials about Event, the 3rd one explains exactly what is Voice and shows the voice editor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnzKWGEIHOQ

It looks like a Voice in Ketron's defiition is a combination of Yamaha's voices (R1, R2, etc). The Voice is comprised of sounds (so Ketron's 'sound' is like a Yammie's Voice :) )
Ketron also allows setting various parameters  on each sound - key ranges, velocity ranges, etc.
Very convenient I must say...
 
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Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #618 on: January 19, 2023, 02:40:27 PM »
Thank you Sokratis.
I'm not that familiar with voice "structures" and so I'm still tapping in the dark. If someone says keyboard has two voices for right hand, then for me (Yamaha owner) that means just that: I can play two different voices at once (i.e. Piano and Strings). At this point I'm not that interested on complexity (layers) of voices. As far I understand, voice layers improve voice reproduction (i.e. for expression & articulation), but outcome is still a single voice/instrument (on single channel). I know there might be more behind this, but my point is: Yamaha has 3 right hand voices and Event has 2, which shows Yamaha in better light -at least for "average" keyboard player.
But now comes "each voice has up to 3 sounds" and here I'm lost.. what exactly does that mean?

Bogdan
Ok, I'll give an example. In Genos we have the Voice section where there are presets or user (expansion) sounds. Each Voice requires one or more multisamples to play. Genos theoretically has tremendous potential that I don't need to elaborate on.
So we place these Voice (in Genos) in 4 separate OTS where we can recall them at any time in a style. But beyond the 4 OTS, we can open the list of Voice and choose another Voice regardless of the ones we have stored in the OTS. So in Genos we can choose one sound at a time. In the Event, however, we can choose two different Voice at the same time and independently from the 4 Voice that can be saved here as well in each style. We also have two separate volume sliders for each sound.
Also, in the three sounds I mentioned before about the Event, in essence I mean that it contains 3 multisamples where in the Event they are called sounds.
I hope I didn't confuse you.
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #619 on: January 19, 2023, 02:59:27 PM »
Is the Event a real plug and play instrument ?

Watching AJ's last video ( #3 ), I have the impression the Event is not.  Am I wrong ?

JH
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #620 on: January 19, 2023, 03:36:07 PM »
Thanks again Sokratis
confused?.. heheh.. well, yes  :)
I think I need to wait for some video where I can see and hear what's all about -is the only way I can put pieces together in my head. And most important, so I can understand the benefits and (maybe) downsides.

Regards,
Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline Duffy

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #621 on: January 19, 2023, 04:34:05 PM »
Is the Event a real plug and play instrument ?

Watching AJ's last video ( #3 ), I have the impression the Event is not.  Am I wrong ?

JH
I would be very surprised if it isn't Jeff.
I have 2 Ketron / Solton products and, like any other arranger, you can press a voice or press a style, or press a registration and play the instrument immediately
The instrument will have 4 one touch settings for each style, which you will be able to change if you don't like them and so really, what is the difference from playing a Yamaha?
The big difference on the Event, will be the amount by which you can change things to your own liking. Some of these, you can do whilst you are still playing.
I have not seen the Event but, I am sure that you will be able to switch it on, choose a style and play it like any arranger without any problems.  Should be good.
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #622 on: January 19, 2023, 11:30:45 PM »
After reading all the information and comments in this thread, I have decided there is no reason for me to leave Yamaha.

Why should I kill a winning horse after more than 22 years ?

JH






Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #623 on: January 20, 2023, 05:09:20 AM »
 Administrators forgive me. I think I haven't promoted the Event. I have only given information when asked. I just wanted you to see a video of me playing Live with the Event. My son (cameraman) also took some shots of Genos next to me.
Thank you
https://youtu.be/XowEx1G6HP0

Offline ton37

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #624 on: January 20, 2023, 05:32:51 AM »
..
............
Why should I kill a winning horse after more than 22 years ?

JH
Mmmm...because one  doubt if such an old horse will still winn..? ;D ;D
My best regards,
Ton
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #625 on: January 20, 2023, 07:18:34 AM »
Hey Ton :

I am an old horse too ... ;)

Best regards, JH
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #626 on: January 20, 2023, 10:41:26 AM »
...I just wanted you to see a video of me playing Live with the Event....
Nice playing and good piano sound.
Thank you for sharing.
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #627 on: January 20, 2023, 12:08:18 PM »
Hey Bogdan :

I agree with you Sokratis presented us a nice piece of piano music here. :)

It looks to me the Event is not such an easy instrument to play though.
Sokratis is continuously touching knobs and sliders to change voices and other functions ( while he is playing ).

In other words it might take a lot of time before a player, ( who is not used to play a Ketron ), is capable to manage and operate this high end keyboard, IMHO. ::)

JH



 

Offline BogdanH

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #628 on: January 20, 2023, 01:03:19 PM »
hi Jeff,
Yes, I noticed that too! -I think that's just his way of playing (continuously adjusting "just a little")  :)
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #629 on: January 20, 2023, 02:03:00 PM »
Hey Bogdan :

Good to hear you noticed that too. Thank you ! :)
The volume balance between the backing tracks ( style ) and the piano voice also needed an adjustment, IMO.

In general the Event has a nice sound quality but it is not a typical midi instrument like a Korg or/and a Yamaha.
The Event is mainly an audio arranger. That might be the answer why this arranger needs adjustment continuously ? I do not know ... I am not an expert at all.  8)

Approx. 6 years ago Yamaha ended their audio styles' experiment and finally came back with midi styles only. No need to explain the advantage of midi, I guess.

Anyway, for me the Event is not a real plug and play arranger as far as I have heard and seen up to now ... but who am I ?

Best regards, JH
 
« Last Edit: January 20, 2023, 02:06:17 PM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #630 on: January 20, 2023, 02:23:49 PM »
From my seat, I need a keyboard that can be adjusted on the fly during a show, and with both hands working the keys. It doesn't sound like that's an easy task on the Event.

Heck, I can remember when they introduced the Hold feature when a style was playing. All of a sudden we could just press the chord and move both hands above the split point instead of having to keep the left hand on the chords. That was a huge jump in technology! The controller surface of the PSRs, Tyros, and Genos are well thought out, for the better part. I'd stay with Yamaha on this.
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #631 on: January 20, 2023, 04:13:29 PM »
Hey Bogdan :

I agree with you Sokratis presented us a nice piece of piano music here. :)

It looks to me the Event is not such an easy instrument to play though.
Sokratis is continuously touching knobs and sliders to change voices and other functions ( while he is playing ).

In other words it might take a lot of time before a player, ( who is not used to play a Ketron ), is capable to manage and operate this high end keyboard, IMHO. ::)

JH
Hahaha No don't get confused by what I do while playing. It's just my way of managing. It has nothing to do with Event difficulty. Event behaves like a standard Arranger when playing. There is nothing special here.

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #632 on: January 21, 2023, 09:03:19 AM »
To avoid confusion it is always useful to check everything before showing a demo on Youtube, IMHO.
Viewers prefer to see both hands on the keys, they say. :)


Best wishes, JH

Offline Duffy

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #633 on: January 21, 2023, 09:39:07 AM »
I think it's very bad manners to show interest in a board and want demos, and then complain about the way the guy plays when he demos it.
The Ketron has Styles, Sounds and Registrations like any other keyboard and so, you can choose one and play it like any other keyboard. What's hard about that?
People who want to stick to their much loved Yamaha's can do that but,  I don't understand why they make such a fuss of a board which they think is inferior.
There is something for everybody out there.

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #634 on: January 21, 2023, 10:14:50 AM »
Sorry guys. I didn't know that I have to make a special explanation about what I'm playing.
 

Offline EileenL

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #635 on: January 21, 2023, 11:57:28 AM »
I think it is maybe not easy for people who are used to what they can do with there Yamaha keyboards when playing. One thing that would interest me is how you would change voices on a performance. On Yamaha a lot of us would set up a registration bank to suit the song we were playing we can then change this by hand or applied to a foot switch to change as we played. It could contain just one voice or all three to give a rich sound for things like bands playing. Most songs have a build up where you would want to change voices to bring this out.
  The question is then how is this done on Ketron.

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #636 on: January 21, 2023, 03:48:49 PM »
I don't understand why they make such a fuss of a board which they think is inferior.

To my knowledge there is no member of this Yamaha Forum who believes the Event, an arranger of approx. US$ 5,000 ( without speaker set nor stand ), is called " inferior ".

First impression by most people, I guess : the Event is a good looking arranger. The sound quality seems to be great. No tiltable but a small screen and no multipads available. Audio styles.
A lot of unanswered questions which can lead to misunderstandings and confusion though.
One simple question e.g. : where can a customer buy the Event in her/his country ?

For the time being only a very few ( European ? ) dealers have installed one Event in their show room but these dealers cannot tell a potential customer when the Event will be available.
Ketron promised a first delivery in December 2022 and the next shipment in March 2023, am I right ?

Perhaps a good idea ?
It might be a very useful and helpful tool if an impartial pro arranger keyboard musician would present a video ( on YouTube e.g. ) where all Event's features are shown and explained, IMO.


Best wishes, JH




« Last Edit: January 21, 2023, 04:25:16 PM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #637 on: January 21, 2023, 06:58:26 PM »
I'm sure many of you know Alois Müller on You tube. He had (or still has?) Genos, but most of his latest videos are around Korg Pa1000 and lately Korg Pa5X. Two weeks ago he visited his local store for Ketron Event presentation and there's very short video where he's trying Event for the first time.

I'm quite a fan of blues music and I must say that I never heard such authentic and good sounding accompaniment on any keyboard before. Here's the link:
Blues rhythm on Event

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #638 on: January 21, 2023, 07:28:37 PM »
Bogdon, he is obviously a great player, but the keyboard sounds do not impress me as much as those I have in the past from Korg and Yamaha. In this particular instance, it's the player - not the keyboard. Years ago, I heard Don Mason playing a Ketron and everyone that has heard Don perform knows that he is the master of duplicating guitar voices. He only had the Ketron a couple months, then sold it and began using a PA4X, because the guitar sounded more realistic. However, he freely admitted to me that the Yamaha guitar voices were the most realistic, though the Ketron had better drums than all the competition.

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #639 on: January 21, 2023, 07:53:00 PM »
hello Gary,
...In this particular instance, it's the player - not the keyboard...
Kindly disagree in this case. In this video Alois actually doesn't play much at all.. there's only small saxophone improvisation with right hand and with left hand he only changes chords (which also act as fill-ins to my ears -if you pay attention on harmonica).
In this case it's not about which keyboard is better in particular sound... I'm just saying that so far, I never heard not even similar accompaniment.

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #640 on: January 21, 2023, 08:11:40 PM »
Hey Bogdan :

A couple of weeks ago A. Müller was invited by a local Belgian dealer ( not far away - approx. 25 km  - from my Dutch small town where I am living ).

Alois was asked to introduce the PA5X to the dealer's best keyboard customers. A very successful evening.

You are absolutely right !
Alois is a great German professional musician and one of the best arranger keyboard players I know.👍👍👍

JH

Offline EileenL

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #641 on: January 21, 2023, 11:54:35 PM »
It seemed to me like the keyboard was playing more than the player.

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #642 on: January 22, 2023, 12:55:52 AM »
Quote
Alois is a great German professional musician and one of the best arranger keyboard players I know.👍👍👍
I'd like to hear him actually play then 😀. He didn't really do anything in that video. I'm sure he's very good.
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #643 on: January 22, 2023, 03:57:21 AM »
One thing I'm noticing straight away is that the pitch bend and modulation wheels are near the top right hand corner on the Ketron Event. I hate when they do this. I have that on the PA5X 88. Extremely inconvenient in my opinion!

As a pianist I'm used to left and right, the odd button click just above the keyboard (Such as the registrations) is no problem but stretching any further for modulation is proving difficult for me.

Don't understand why Korg and Ketron aren't copying physical registration buttons, far more important than almost any other button on the keyboard. They seem like the best invention on a keyboard to me. Call them "scenes" or "sets" or whatever. Just place them between the keyboard and screen, **** it. 4 keyboard set buttons on the pa5x without any form of style control and 16 matrix pads that are impossible to program and thus not even as useful as a mere 4 multipads is just not good enough.
Having registrations on screen, if that is what the Ketron has?, I don't think would work as well during a hectic performance.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2023, 04:21:24 AM by AndrewKeyz »
Without Music, Life would be a Mistake.

Check out my Genos recordings & performances: http://www.youtube.com/andrewkeyz
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #644 on: January 22, 2023, 09:40:21 AM »
It seemed to me like the keyboard was playing more than the player.

I'd like to hear him actually play then 😀. He didn't really do anything in that video...

I can't really understand such comments... If he would play an actual piece, then there would be comments like "good keyboard player can make any keyboard sound good".
It's just a short excerpt from keyboard presentation, where we can get an impression of how keyboard sounds -that's what we are interested about. And here I can only say kudos where kudos is due.

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #645 on: January 22, 2023, 01:25:19 PM »
I can't really understand such comments... If he would play an actual piece, then there would be comments like "good keyboard player can make any keyboard sound good".
It's just a short excerpt from keyboard presentation, where we can get an impression of how keyboard sounds -that's what we are interested about. And here I can only say kudos where kudos is due.

Bogdan

In an ideal world a demo I guess would show both but if it's two-three minutes you can't expect this at all, agreed.

With the PA5X I remember every tom, dick and harry from small music outlets rushing online as soon as they were allowed to post demos and info from Korg, from midnight onwards and all those videos sucked. Terrible demos, terrible pathetic playing. All a rush job, you could see almost none of the people understood the keyboard better than basic information taken from the PA4X etc.

Then later on the first day of the PA5X's release Tony from Bonners came along and posted the perfect demo. He can often sell a keyboard better than the manufacturers themselves. A bit like Peter Baartmans' excellent demos for Yamaha. They make you want to play and sound just like that, even if you are never able to do so.  ;D

There is a difference between a proper product demo and just a guy's first attempt at tinkering on a new keyboard. As long as the latter isn't sold as the first, no one can really complain.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2023, 01:30:32 PM by AndrewKeyz »
Without Music, Life would be a Mistake.

Check out my Genos recordings & performances: http://www.youtube.com/andrewkeyz
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #646 on: January 22, 2023, 02:02:19 PM »

Hi Guys :

Alois Müller was simply  " touching " the keys of the Event, not really playing.
Absolutely not a demo at all, he said.

Afterwards he confirmed he is used to work with Yamaha and Korg
arrangers.

It was the first time he saw and touched an Event and he was/is not familiar with the Event at all ( yet ).

If you might be interested in A. Müller's craftsmanship, plse visit his own YouTube sites : Alois Müller Genos.

Watch his left hand !

Your comments are very welcome.  ;)

Best regards, JH







 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #647 on: January 22, 2023, 02:20:46 PM »
I can't really understand such comments... If he would play an actual piece, then there would be comments like "good keyboard player can make any keyboard sound good".
It's just a short excerpt from keyboard presentation, where we can get an impression of how keyboard sounds -that's what we are interested about. And here I can only say kudos where kudos is due.
Bogdan
Point taken Bogdan. No offence to Alois. My whole point was based on Jeff's comment, which was, "Alois is a great German professional musician and one of the best arranger keyboard players I know." It would have been nice to hear him play something interesting - not some cheesy sax solo that most beginners learn after a few months. There's nothing more pleasurable and inspiring to a musician than to hear another musician play better than him or her. I'm certain Alois is a great player. If so, then play something! If he actually played something very interesting and it was not shown, then it's the fault of the videographer and person who posted the clip. It would be nice to hear Ray Charles play Chopsticks, but I'd rather hear him play Route 66!

On that note, we are now looking at 13 pages of posts about the Event. Not once have we seen a really good demo that makes our musical juices lean away from the Genos. I just watched a video made by some Italian guy, who spent the first 30 seconds vaping. Oh yes, that's real cool. Show off your disgusting habit for 30 seconds. Then when the camera moved to his hands and the keyboard, the 1980s video camera he was using made the Event look like a semi-circle. I skipped through several bits on the time line only to hear him just speaking in Italian. I couldn't find one part where he was playing something useful and revealing about the Event. So, there we have it - another trash video about the Event.

I don't see the Event making any great headway in our market, with a sketchy dealer network that is limited to specific pockets of Europe and Ketron's failure to hire a professional player to demo this so-called "revolution in arranger technology." From what I've heard so far, the only advantage the Event has over the Genos is in the styles. If Yamaha cleans up its operating system, provides better core voices like piano and organ, and beefs up their styles with longer phrases and round robin constructions, the competition will have wasted their time. The knockout punch will come when Peter Baartmans demos the Genos 2.
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #648 on: January 22, 2023, 02:38:55 PM »
Quote
Then later on the first day of the PA5X's release Tony from Bonners came along and posted the perfect demo. He can often sell a keyboard better than the manufacturers themselves. A bit like Peter Baartmans' excellent demos for Yamaha. They make you want to play and sound just like that, even if you are never able to do so.
Good point, Andrew. I think any keyboard maker who releases their new product and lets a bunch of rank amateurs post terrible demo videos before the manufacture hires a pro to do that job, is just plain stupid.

I may be wrong but I don't believe Yamaha has ever put the "cart before the horse." They have never released a product without a pro-level teaser video preceding it. Within hours of its release, Baartmans or some other pro from Yamaha is seen playing the new product. After that, you start to see all the others come out of the woodwork (some very good, but most not) play the same product.

That's how a new product release should be handled. Doing it the other way around seriously delays, if not kills, any chance of that company having an impact. They may produce a somewhat decent product that appeals to several players, but they shoot themselves in the foot at the most critical point in development - getting the thing to market!
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #649 on: January 22, 2023, 03:30:31 PM »
I agree that we're still tapping in the dark about Event (same goes for Korg Pa5X though). It's just that if we're lucky, sometimes we can catch some interesting detail. In this case (at least for me) it was that blues accompaniment in A. Müller's video. Are there just some random phrases playing in style? Is it some audio file used for accompaniment? We don't know yet.
Right now I just assume that's how Event works and that player can modify/create styles and voices accordingly -if that's true, then Event seems to be a darn good keyboard. Because sound-wise it sure is. I have impression that Event is in many ways "different" to what we (Yamaha owners) are used to and that might be the reason to stay with Yamaha. That has nothing to do with which is better, though. I say that because there's a big chance that next Yamaha keyboard will be totally different too -is the only way to make a progress.

Just sharing my thoughts,
Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube