Topic: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron

[rphillipchuk]

I think that  "BogdanH"  was correct in asking how "easy" it would be,  to create a New Style !   

Let's be honest, creating a new style from scratch is a little daunting , but if it is as simple as grabbing a Drum phrase, add some real bass and you would have a great start to a new style

[EileenL]

The purpose of the three video's mentioned before was that Genos was being used along with the Berlin Orchestra to play some of the Drum patterns and style parts using some of the Knob assigned effects to these showing how easy it is to use in live performance.

[Sokratis1974]

The purpose of the three video's mentioned before was that Genos was being used along with the Berlin Orchestra to play some of the Drum patterns and style parts using some of the Knob assigned effects to these showing how easy it is to use in live performance.

Dear EileenL.
Although as I wrote above, I don't want to continue this discussion, however because this answer is not about Event but about Genos and about my own comment, I would like to say a few things.
First let me disagree with your point and I would like to explain why I disagree.
So, I disagree because when a company creates a campaign like in this case Yamaha with Genos, it must (and is required) be clear with what it projects and with what it promotes.
So, I will remind you what happened then.
Yamaha started the campaign before the official launch of the Genos by releasing these three mysterious videos that I personally never understood, and I never got any response to the emails I sent to the company.
So, all three of these videos contain the exact same direction and the focus is the Berlin Symphony, a lot of unrelated exterior shots (especially in the first video) and some very rushed shots from Genos that of course have nothing to do with the style or the sound that seems to have been chosen by the protagonist Alex Christensen.
So, I ask you: Can you find anything familiar (from Genos) in these videos? Because as you know I've had Genos since early 2018 and I hear absolutely nothing whether it's Style or Sound or whatever.
On the contrary, all three of these pieces (as far as the rhythmic electronic part is concerned) are programmed in some daw (Cubase etc.) and not some Style and we understand this above all from the pauses that exist between the pieces that are almost impossible to exist pauses in such a way in a style.
You will of course tell me that in a studio everything can be done and of course you will be right.
But in campaigning for such an instrument what should be advertised is what Real Time can achieve and not in a studio where something can practically be created (from the instrument itself) in which it is practically impossible to reproduce Real Time.
And that's because the reason all arrangers are built is to produce Real Time music through Styles.
Also let me tell you that for 22 years I have been producing music on the computer (independent of Arrangers) and I know very well when a track is programmed.
But regardless of the technical issues, I want to see things more clearly.
If Yamaha wanted to do a real campaign that made sense, then they would put the musician who would accompany the orchestra with the Genos, right next to it and they would play together while making a full description of what we are seeing.
Instead on Yamaha's site there was a completely unrelated slogan "GENOS IN ACTION" which led to these three videos without the slightest explanation of what we were seeing.
If you search the comments, you will still find the confusion created by Yamaha users who never understood what they were seeing.
So, you want me to remind you of the description of these videos (even today)?

VIDEO FIRST DATED SEPTEMBER 15, 2017:
https://youtu.be/jHdbmEGyyNg
After establishing the genre “Orchestral Dance Music” with volumes 1-3 of Classical 90's DANCE, Alex Christensen is now back with Classical 80's DANCE: The DJ, producer, talent-scout and songwriter now builds new homes for smash-hits of the 80s , timelessly staged. Catchy melodies, which are firmly anchored in our collective memory, combined with new orchestral arrangements. Besides Felix Räuber, who is the former frontman of Polarkreis 18, “Classical 80s Dance” hosts many national and international artists such as Ronan Keating, Sophie Ellis-Bextor, Gary Barlow, Bonny Tyler and many more:
All videos of Classical 80s & 90s Dance by Marcel Brell.

SECOND VIDEO DATED SEPTEMBER 22, 2017
https://youtu.be/nSJhKv1ZGIk
After establishing the genre “Orchestral Dance Music” with volumes 1-3 of Classical 90's DANCE, Alex Christensen is now back with Classical 80's DANCE: The DJ, producer, talent-scout and songwriter now builds new homes for smash-hits of the 80s , timelessly staged. Catchy melodies, which are firmly anchored in our collective memory, combined with new orchestral arrangements. Besides Felix Räuber, who is the former frontman of Polarkreis 18, “Classical 80s Dance” hosts many national and international artists such as Ronan Keating, Sophie Ellis-Bextor, Gary Barlow, Bonny Tyler and many more:
All videos of Classical 80s & 90s Dance by Marcel Brell

THIRD VIDEO DATED SEPTEMBER 29, 2017
https://youtu.be/ZWLkgGZpJWE
After establishing the genre “Orchestral Dance Music” with volumes 1-3 of Classical 90's DANCE, Alex Christensen is now back with Classical 80's DANCE: The DJ, producer, talent-scout and songwriter now builds new homes for smash-hits of the 80s , timelessly staged. Catchy melodies, which are firmly anchored in our collective memory, combined with new orchestral arrangements. Besides Felix Räuber, who is the former frontmann of Polarkreis 18, “Classical 80s Dance” hosts many national and international artists such as Ronan Keating, Sophie Ellis-Bextor, Gary Barlow, Bonny Tyler and many more:
All videos of Classical 80s & 90s Dance by Marcel Brell

So, I ask you. Can you make any sense out of it all?
Do you find any logic in this campaign?
Personally, not only do I not find it logical, but I also think it contains elements of deception.
I also must tell you that I too, watching these videos, initially had very high expectations, but these were dashed when I heard the (real demos) and not the (fakes).
You will of course ask me why I bought it?
I've said it before, but I'll say it again. I'm a fan of Audio Styles if (I know a lot of you don't like it at all).
So, as I said before, I was always looking for an opportunity to buy a Yamaha arranger, this opportunity appeared when I saw the Audio Phraser through which we could have Live Drum direct from disc through a time stretch algorithm (as is done in Ketron).
I finally bought it (the Genos) and Yamaha despite emails never perfected that program (Audio Phraser) and to this day it remains literally useless.
Of course, I found a solution through REX Files, but it had a cost to the Ram.
Thanks.

[ton37]

Dear Sokratis, live up to your name: be wise  . In my opinion you are right on quite a few points, but save your energy trying to convince some of the 'Genos' hardliners on this forum with correct arguments. Hopefully we will see more results from both the Korg and the Ketron in the foreseeable future. Whether Yamaha is still in the picture to surpass, I highly doubt. It will be more of the same as Korg. Ketron steers its own course. Next year, around this time, we can compare the Yamaha Genos 3, the Korg Pa5x and the Ketron Event. Ultimately, the consumers decide. Happy keyboarding 

[Sokratis1974]

Dear Sokratis, live up to your name: be wise  . In my opinion you are right on quite a few points, but save your energy trying to convince some of the 'Genos' hardliners on this forum with correct arguments. Hopefully we will see more results from both the Korg and the Ketron in the foreseeable future. Whether Yamaha is still in the picture to surpass, I highly doubt. It will be more of the same as Korg. Ketron steers its own course. Next year, around this time, we can compare the Yamaha Genos 3, the Korg Pa5x and the Ketron Event. Ultimately, the consumers decide. Happy keyboarding 

My friend ton37 I'm not trying to convince anyone. Personally, it is enough for me that opinions are expressed wherever they come from.. Everyone evaluates and draws their own conclusions.

[BogdanH]

I admit, that I never saw these three "Genos campaign" videos before. But watching them now, I see no relation to Genos whatsoever. Yes, there are few very short Genos flashes inside, but then, there I can also see flash of Mercedes and Renault cars... From what I read in the post, Yamaha used those video clips for Genos campaign? I ask, because (again) I see no relation to Yamaha there.

Back to (Ketron) topic...
@sokratis
I am aware, that Event isn't on market yet and that things are still being polished -means, at this point, certain details can't be shared in public.
As I mentioned many times, I really am impressed by Ketron Event and that's because of two reasons: visual appearance (obviously) and because, from what I can read, it's quite easy to get very good results on it (compared to competition). But "from what I can read" just isn't enough -it's still just a rumor. And that's why I said, that I would like to see more "specific" video content. But I get it: it's probably too early for that.
In short, it wasn't my intention to criticize your video -I was only telling what I'm personally interested on.

Best wishes,
Bogdan

[Sokratis1974]

I admit, that I never saw these three "Genos campaign" videos before. But watching them now, I see no relation to Genos whatsoever. Yes, there are few very short Genos flashes inside, but then, there I can also see flash of Mercedes and Renault cars... From what I read in the post, Yamaha used those video clips for Genos campaign? I ask, because (again) I see no relation to Yamaha there.

Back to (Ketron) topic...
@sokratis
I am aware, that Event isn't on market yet and that things are still being polished -means, at this point, certain details can't be shared in public.
As I mentioned many times, I really am impressed by Ketron Event and that's because of two reasons: visual appearance (obviously) and because, from what I can read, it's quite easy to get very good results on it (compared to competition). But "from what I can read" just isn't enough -it's still just a rumor. And that's why I said, that I would like to see more "specific" video content. But I get it: it's probably too early for that.
In short, it wasn't my intention to criticize your video -I was only telling what I'm personally interested on.

Best wishes,
Bogdan

Yes, these three videos were the official Genos campaign..Isn't that really weird?...  No problem my friend. I didn't see any criticism. It's all opinions..

[Lee Batchelor]

The good news about this whole thread is that there are two new arrangers on the market that have raised the bar over the Genos in many ways. Yamaha now has a bench mark with which to work and if history is any lesson, Yamaha will surpass those two new arrangers by a mile. They should because they have always been regarded as an industry leader in all their musical instrument products.

As a sidebar, I went into my music store a few years back, looking to buy an acoustic guitar to use with my jazz trio. I played guitar in my youth but went straight to piano and organ for my musical hobby. I wanted a guitar so I could strum chords for some of the songs in the jazz trio - just for a change in sound. I budgeted about $1,000. I asked the guitar rep about something in a decent price range for a beginner player (I know a lot of chords but I'm not even house broken on soling). I thought he would take a Fender, Martin, Taylor, or Takamine off the wrack. Nope, he grabbed a student Yamaha guitar. The neck was slightly narrower for easier learning, had a cut away body past the octave fret, onboard tuner, and pickup for connecting to my Bose speakers. Price with case included $649. At the time, I didn't buy it but I'm still considering the purchase. The point is, of all the big players in the guitar industry, he chose Yamaha for its price versus benefits. I'm sure each of the other companies offer a student version (not sure about Taylor) but he chose Yamaha.

I'm sure Genos 2 won't let us down 😀.

[Amwilburn]

Dear EileenL.
*snip*
VIDEO FIRST DATED SEPTEMBER 15, 2017:
https://youtu.be/jHdbmEGyyNg
After establishing the genre “Orchestral Dance Music” with volumes 1-3 of Classical 90's DANCE, Alex Christensen is now back with Classical 80's DANCE: The DJ, producer, talent-scout and songwriter now builds new homes for smash-hits of the 80s , timelessly staged. Catchy melodies, which are firmly anchored in our collective memory, combined with new orchestral arrangements. Besides Felix Räuber, who is the former frontman of Polarkreis 18, “Classical 80s Dance” hosts many national and international artists such as Ronan Keating, Sophie Ellis-Bextor, Gary Barlow, Bonny Tyler and many more:
All videos of Classical 80s & 90s Dance by Marcel Brell.

Odd. You said they're official Yamaha Genos teasers, but they're both published by Alex Christiansen. Moreover, none of the hashtags include Yamaha. Which would be antithetical for a Yamaha Genos promo, no? Nowhere do any of the videos claim anything but an actual orchestra. Ok, the EDM drums are electronic, I supposed that could've come from a Genos. But they didn't claim Genos *anywhere* on all of those videos...?

As a dealer, *this* was the only teaser video we were given prior to launch:
As you can see, published by Yamaha.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Sva8QktXf0

My question is, why do you say these are Genos promos? (Could have been, but as a dealer in Canada, we were never given these links, and the links you provide don't hashtag Yamaha or Genos at all)

Incidentally (I know mikf will get a kick out of this) we've had the Pa5x side by side with the Genos since launch (technically July of 2022). We've since sold significantly more Genos than Pa5x (they've somehow made the operating system even more obtuse and difficult to navigate). But yes, I think the seamless patch switching, the piano, hammond organs, Classical guitars, lead and pad synths, and drums are even better than the Genos (it's pretty slight in either direction at this point; with the exception of strings: Solo strings Korg has a *slight* edge, but ensemble strings ensemble choir, the Genos is *quite* a bit ahead). However, Korg's multiple "Tutti" orchestral patches are significantly better than Yamaha's Tutti (20 year old sample! Time for a new one!).

Mark

[Sokratis1974]

Odd. You said they're official Yamaha Genos teasers, but they're both published by Alex Christiansen. Moreover, none of the hashtags include Yamaha. Which would be antithetical for a Yamaha Genos promo, no? Nowhere do any of the videos claim anything but an actual orchestra. Ok, the EDM drums are electronic, I supposed that could've come from a Genos. But they didn't claim Genos *anywhere* on all of those videos...?

As a dealer, *this* was the only teaser video we were given prior to launch:
As you can see, published by Yamaha.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Sva8QktXf0

My question is, why do you say these are Genos promos? (Could have been, but as a dealer in Canada, we were never given these links, and the links you provide don't hashtag Yamaha or Genos at all)

Incidentally (I know mikf will get a kick out of this) we've had the Pa5x side by side with the Genos since launch (technically July of 2022). We've since sold significantly more Genos than Pa5x (they've somehow made the operating system even more obtuse and difficult to navigate). But yes, I think the seamless patch switching, the piano, hammond organs, Classical guitars, lead and pad synths, and drums are even better than the Genos (it's pretty slight in either direction at this point; with the exception of strings: Solo strings Korg has a *slight* edge, but ensemble strings ensemble choir, the Genos is *quite* a bit ahead).

Mark

My dear friend, I'm sorry, but I did not create in my mind all that I am describing. I've experienced all of this (as have others) and I've never been able to explain it.
Since you probably don't know what happened, I'll say it again.
So, Yamaha uploaded one of these videos on its official website just before the official presentation every week, specifically on SEPTEMBER 15, 2017, SEPTEMBER 22, 2017 and SEPTEMBER 29, 2017 in the order I put them in my above post.
The title that Yamaha put on its website was: GENOS IN ACTION and it led to these videos.
Of course, there was not the slightest other explanation and not even in the description of the videos there was even the slightest reference, or hashtag regarding the Genos even though there is a clear (product placement) Yamaha since even the headphones that the girl in the first video wears clearly have the Yamaha logo.
And since I always like to talk with facts, I would like to attach some to you. So, I searched and found some comments (which I remembered from the first moments of posting the videos) and I am attaching them to you as Screenshot.
https://app.box.com/s/uee5kwekjav7iuhd3awqej23kk5rnfkv
Also, from an official Yamaha Facebook page at the time, fortunately I had taken a screenshot of the publication of the video with hashtag (#genos) and I have attached this to you as well.
so, I am attaching this to you as well.
So, see in the link I am sending you the YouTube comments I found today, what the people who were directed to these videos by the Yamaha site said in the first days. Because if there was no Yamaha publication there would be no reason for all of them to comment critically on Yamaha.
I had also made a specific publication in this Forum which of course did not come to any conclusion.
https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,46477.0.html
So you see for those who don't know the specific facts that it was beyond reason? Why Yamaha did it only they know. But the facts do not change.

[Duffy]

I will back up what Sokratis has said because I also remember seeing these 3 teaser videos and Yamaha using them as an advert for the coming Genos.
I remember, at the time, watching the videos and wondering what part the keyboard played in all this as the message seemed to pass me by.
The links HAD come from Yamaha themselves.
 

[pjd]

My dear friend, I'm sorry, but I did not create in my mind all that I am describing. I've experienced all of this (as have others) and I've never been able to explain it.

I don't want to re-litigate the whole teaser discussion, but I'm with Sokratis on this one.

Yamaha laid out a bunch of product-placement money -- catch the headphones in the studio, too? That whole teaser thing left a lot of potential customers confused about the product, myself included. (I drew some far-fetched, but plausible inferences that proved to be wrong.) 

If any company pulls this teaser B.S. again, I'm going to call them on it. 

Oh, well -- pj

[Amwilburn]

Ah...from facebook. I guess that helps explain it... I don't think I've ever looked at any official ads from any corporation through facebook; Nor did Yamaha Canada every mention/show us that. Yes, if they linked it from an official page, that is an absolutely baffling campaign... as I said, the videos themselves don't even reference Yamaha or Genos save for a flash of the corner of a keyboard. But watching them, nowhere did I get the impression that the music was coming from a Genos (Berlin Orchestra was plastered all over the videos) so I still don't understand your "deception" comments.

I mean, no, the Genos is not as impressive as an actual orchestra (no keyboard is... yet) but I think the Genos is still ahead of the curve there. As per my actual live demos (that I can't recreate on any other brand key because I don't have full style programming control and instant registration switching)
Yes my playing is sloppy :p And yes I cheated *slightly*; on half of these registrations I swapped out the Yamaha default Tutti for the CMS Orchestra (so I could create different levels of crescendo), except for "PoTC" because I hadn't thought of doing that yet. That's just Yamaha's old "Tutti" -- which is getting a little long in the tooth, I hope they add a new one in the G2. Korg's PA5x has several versions of the Tutti crash, and they are wonderfully similar to the CMS one. Shame about the upper register of strings, though. PA5x even has one with a Tutti Crash combined with bass notes from a piano... absolutely perfect for Cliff Eidelman/ Danny Elfman scores!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-UBkmhTW9c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NRr4Npi_ds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOSmEEX-5Ks

However, Sokratis, thank you for finding a pic of that! Hah, no wonder Yamaha Canada has ever mentioned a facebook page!

Mark (the #fatguyonkeys on youtube)

[Sokratis1974]

Ah...from facebook. I guess that helps explain it... I don't think I've ever looked at any official ads from any corporation through facebook; Nor did Yamaha Canada every mention/show us that. Yes, if they linked it from an official page, that is an absolutely baffling campaign... as I said, the videos themselves don't even reference Yamaha or Genos save for a flash of the corner of a keyboard. But watching them, nowhere did I get the impression that the music was coming from a Genos (Berlin Orchestra was plastered all over the videos) so I still don't understand your "deception" comments.

I mean, no, the Genos is not as impressive as an actual orchestra (no keyboard is... yet) but I think the Genos is still ahead of the curve there. As per my actual live demos (that I can't recreate on any other brand key because I don't have full style programming control and instant registration switching)
Yes my playing is sloppy :p And yes I cheated *slightly*; on half of these registrations I swapped out the Yamaha default Tutti for the CMS Orchestra (so I could create different levels of crescendo), except for "PoTC" because I hadn't thought of doing that yet. That's just Yamaha's old "Tutti" -- which is getting a little long in the tooth, I hope they add a new one in the G2. Korg's PA5x has several versions of the Tutti crash, and they are wonderfully similar to the CMS one. Shame about the upper register of strings, though. PA5x even has one with a Tutti Crash combined with bass notes from a piano... absolutely perfect for Cliff Eidelman/ Danny Elfman scores!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-UBkmhTW9c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NRr4Npi_ds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOSmEEX-5Ks

However, Sokratis, thank you for finding a pic of that! Hah, no wonder Yamaha Canada has ever mentioned a facebook page!

Mark (the #fatguyonkeys on youtube)

You didn't understand again. The campaign did not start from Facebook but from the official Yamaha site (I think Yamaha USA) I don't remember exactly. The slogan GENOS IN ACTION and the videos there were posted. So later there was also a publication on Facebook and it is in the screenshot that I have attached to you.

[Henni]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGppdIbencU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8M-E7vZrLs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9COE0QFkjU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uki-bcmmsIg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QScDR98EKNY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka2Y92Q4t_4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSdU8ywSvQE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioBCBakUGjg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnns0V3HNlU

[DerekA]

Have to agree with Duffy and PJD; that whole marketing campaign, which was not via facebook, suggested Genos was being used in those audio clips, which it clearly wasn't.

I did speak with someone closely involved with the Genos content development who said that this marketing campaign was devised by Yamaha Germany, and that he personally thought it was a mistake.

Doesn't stop me loving my Genos. But it would be really interesting to see if anyone could create something similar to those trailers just using Genos.

[Henni]

WOW!!! You are AMAZING!!! & extremely talented Sokratis!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFr2Z_h71_c

[Jeff Hollande]

Congratulations, Sokratis !!!

A very nice piece of music you made there. What a great sound.

Best regards, JH

[Henni]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJnhl4HXotU

[Lee Batchelor]

Nice video, Henni. Does the Event use round robin backing tracks? They are far more interesting than the Genos. Less repetitive.

[Sokratis1974]

Nice video, Henni. Does the Event use round robin backing tracks? They are far more interesting than the Genos. Less repetitive.

No.. Nothing more than a simple (new type) Audio style. Combined of course with the new excellent VOICETRON (for vocal harmonies)

[bpsafran]

But while the audio may sound more live, you can make midi styles less repetative by having longer patterns and variations for different chord types. Some older Lowrey organs had several possible patterns for each chord type and switched from one to another randomly. More recent Lowreys have extremely long patterns. I don't know why Yamaha patterns are mostly only 2 or 4 bars.

[Lee Batchelor]

Good point, bpsafran. I agree. Despite the stellar voicings on the Genos, they have fallen WAY behind in their style architecture. The styles are well done but very routine, boring, and predictable. Hopefully, Yamaha will remedy this most important shortcoming in Genos 2.

[keynote]

The YouTube video regarding Sokratis' demonstration is interesting, but I noticed when the audio samples created with VSTi's and Cubase 12 were used in conjunction with the Event audio style (Epic_Rock), there was some degradation in the sound of the audio style when it was playing along with the user created audio samples. If there was no discernible sound degradation when combining user audio samples with the Event audio styles, then I would say a fantastic innovation. But with the noticeable sound degradation, I will give my honest opinion and say somebody should go back to the drawing board. Either Ketron Italy software/sound engineers need to tweak things on the Event, or it could possibly be the user created audio samples are somehow not fully compatible with the Event audio styles format and this could be the fault with producing/recording with Cubase 12 and/or the VSTi's used with Cubase 12, or both potentially. Btw, Cubase 12 Pro costs $579. FWIW, it is a very interesting concept, but seems very time-consuming and work intensive. If it worked seamlessly and flawlessly with no degradation in sound quality, then it would be another great reason and incentive to purchase a Ketron Event. Cheers.

All the best,
Mike

[Sokratis1974]

The YouTube video regarding Sokratis' demonstration is interesting, but I noticed when the audio samples created with VSTi's and Cubase 12 were used in conjunction with the Event audio style (Epic_Rock), there was some degradation in the sound of the audio style when it was playing along with the user created audio samples. If there was no discernible sound degradation when combining user audio samples with the Event audio styles, then I would say a fantastic innovation. But with the noticeable sound degradation, I will give my honest opinion and say somebody should go back to the drawing board. Either Ketron Italy software/sound engineers need to tweak things on the Event, or it could possibly be the user created audio samples are somehow not fully compatible with the Event audio styles format and this could be the fault with producing/recording with Cubase 12 and/or the VSTi's used with Cubase 12, or both potentially. Btw, Cubase 12 Pro costs $579. FWIW, it is a very interesting concept, but seems very time-consuming and work intensive. If it worked seamlessly and flawlessly with no degradation in sound quality, then it would be another great reason and incentive to purchase a Ketron Event. Cheers.

All the best,
Mike

Dear Mike. I have not understood what kind of degradation you have detected. But I must say that within the Event I have made some kind of intervention through EQ in order for them to (stick) between the other elements. But, if you want I can make you a completely flat demo on the audio part (Real Chord) so you can hear the differences. I think up to a point there will be some difference because I don't think the Event AD/DA Converters are any better than the RME UCX ones I have.

[soryt]

I only  see a display and hear the sounds , show it real-time played.
Then I believe what I hear , video editing is so easy

[Sokratis1974]

I only  see a display and hear the sounds , show it real-time played.
Then I believe what I hear , video editing is so easy

So, my friend if I wanted to deceive with this video, I must have been too stupid to do so because it would be easy for someone who bought the Event later to find out that I had deceived the people. The practices used by Yamaha with the Genos campaign (Alex Christensen video) which we analyzed a little earlier in this post, I will not neither I nor Ketron will use them. The fact that I didn't put a camera is purely for technical reasons because I have a very serious problem in my home studio where the space is very limited, and I don't have a good place to set up the video camera properly. So, what I did is I got the video and sound of the Event via OBS (HDMI for video and Stereo Line Out for sound) and I recorded it.
Also, to say that I am not the one who posted this video in here.
But whether you (or others) believe it or not, this is ABSOLUTELY TRUE. And since I have no purpose and no reason to prove anything, I'm going to say this publicly something very simple: If you ever find yourself in a music store that has the  Event as demo I'd love for you to send me a message and I'll send you this entire project directly which is very easy to load into the Event and play it yourself. What do you say you will do?
Anyway, I publicly commit that I will do it not only to you but to anyone who wants to.

[Jeff Hollande]

Dear Sokratis :

I know and believe you are telling the truth.

Keep smiling : up to now the Event seems to be a very professional arranger keyboard with a great sound and a high price ( EURO 5.000, -- !!! ) .
I have no idea what the final street price will be.

The Event is not available in our Dutch music shops yet.
According to our dealers it will take at least 4 - 5 weeks before the public can see, hear, touch and try it.
Only then we will read the first reactions / impressions and comments.  

Last but not least most people here want to know what Yamaha's answer will be before making any decision. Understandable, right ? 

I wish you and your family a Merry X-Mas and a Happy New Year.
Best regards, JH

[Bill]

the Event seems to be a very professional arranger keyboard with a great sound and a high price ( EURO 5.000, -- !!! ) .
I have no idea what the final street price will be.

The price is €4099

https://www.ketron.it/prodotto/event

[BogdanH]

At Thomann listed price is 4999€. But at this point (no available yet), the exact price is irrelevant. Except, it's an high end keyboard: feature- and price wise.

Kudos to Sokratis for showing some of Event features before official launch. I don't understand italian language and so it's hard for me to make some conclusions from videos, though. That is, I can recognize there is "a lot" in Event, but I still don't have the whole picture of it.
As Jeff said, we need to wait until product comes to owners hands. And hopefully, at that time, we will get more info (reviews, impressions, comparisons, etc.) than that's the case for Korg Pa5X.

Bogdan

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Bogdan,

On YT I saw the Korg Pa5X's " grand update " has been started recently. 
Hopefully there will be no important bugs for the new owners after that update.

Maybe Rikki ( from Australia ) can tell us more about that famous update.
She is a proud owner of the PA5X/88.

Enjoy your weekend, JH

[Gunnar Jonny]

At Thomann listed price is 4999€. But at this point (no available yet), the exact price is irrelevant. Except, it's an high end keyboard: feature- and price wise.

Just to compare prices for TOTL arrangers at Thomann website today 17 Dec 2022:
Genos: 4.736,31 €    Korg PA5X-76: 5.032,74 €   Ketron Event: 5.537,92 €
My guess is that a new Genos version, if it was a reality, would be listed way above 5k €

Anyway, what matter, is the price we really have to pay when deal settled.
That usually differ a lot regarded to where in the world we live and from where and who we buy.....

[ckobu]

In addition to the price, availability is perhaps more important at the moment. 


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[raimondsgr]

Hi from a new member here!

This looks like a great product, but those in the know could clarify the following. Does it still have the launchpad functionality found on the SD90, SD9 and SD60?

Best regards,
Ray

[Jeff Hollande]

In addition to the price, availability is perhaps more important at the moment. 

For the time being Yamaha's Genos has the lowest enduser selling price yet.
Availability : only 1 week.


Best regards, JH

 

[Gunnar Jonny]

For the time being Yamaha's Genos has the lowest enduser selling price yet.
Availability : only 1 week.

That's quite natural, it's been for sale for some years now, and Genos is still in stock ...
Maybe slow sales now, and they have to get rid of the items in stock before launch any new model? 🤔😉😁

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Jonny :

It would be an unforgettable X-Mas and New Year's present if Yamaha should announce a new high end arranger before the end of 2022.

Best wishes, JH

[Henni]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9Y-XY-_09A    "The style is in 100% midi style   I always using only the factory sounds, while I creating styles. This style is also made only by the internal sounds of the EVENT. So this is a song style, what I named it to: “Wicked Beat”"

https://youtu.be/lo86X2DJOOg

https://youtu.be/obuhK2K4dCY       "Very cool. Really.  Is it audio style?  Real chords?   No, it is not. This is a fully midi style include the drum tracks too. I used only one track for live guitar"

This product has NO EQUAL!!!

[BogdanH]

ok.. about 1st and 3rd video (made by "alma tom").. I will only believe that's hand made style, if I see him playing (plus showing/playing separate tracks). Until then, it's a fake in my eyes.

Bogdan

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Guys :

The Event seems to be a very nice keyboard with a great sound.

If everything goes well my dealer will receive his first Event during the second half of January 2023.

Early February 2023 the public can play this new keyboard and
I hope their first impressions and comments will be shown on the internet.
I am looking forward to watching these video's first before jumping to any conclusion.

Plse keep in mind this keyboard is very expensive ( approx. Euro
5.000,- -) ! No speakers etc.
A lot of money for a simple, old guy like me ...😛.

JH

[Henni]

ok.. about 1st and 3rd video (made by "alma tom").. I will only believe that's hand made style, if I see him playing (plus showing/playing separate tracks). Until then, it's a fake in my eyes.

Bogdan

Yes, I guess Sokratis' style is also "fake". New suggested marketing slogan for the Event: TO GOOD TO BE TRUE...

As soon as finances allow, I'll first have a new Event and shortly after a new Genos. That'll keep me satisfied & occupied..

[BogdanH]

Yes, I guess Sokratis' style is also "fake"....

I haven't mentioned Sokratis's videos, so please, don't misuse my words.

Bogdan

[Henni]

Well, all the styles in question are in the same league & demonstrate just what could be achieved. Having played around with BIAB, I am not surprised at all. Soon other manufacturers will follow in using this concept. Mixing audio & midi allows one to have the best of both worlds.

Imagine the custom styles that will soon become available as new users come to full grips with this new product.

What amaze me even more is how clean the vocals could be extracted from these songs!

[Sokratis1974]

Well.
Alma Tom (Thomas) is a friend of mine, and he is a good and talented musician as well as a very good programmer (style and sounds) and I think it is evident in how good he is from the full midi style he made at the Event called " Sultan of Beat" in the video Henni attached above. He is also a very good singer.
Here Thomas in two older Ketron SD9 videos
https://youtu.be/fgr6xuyvPGE
https://youtu.be/SptywBg-0Ww
So, Thomas, like me, worked on the development of the Event longer than I did. I joined the project in July 2021 (the project had started quite some time ago) and Thomas was already there and that is why he has the Event (as well as me.)
I will give some information only about the fact that the authenticity of the video I uploaded (EPIC ROCK) is being questioned. Let me also remind again that I didn't attach this video in here, but Henni did. This is important so that it is not considered that I am promoting my work or myself in here.
As well as reminding (again) that I did not open this topic of discussion.
So, to the Event to have a full Real Chord (Stereo audio Stem) in each style we don't need to do anything other than a simple copy/paste to the Event SSD and the USER MODELING/REAL CHORD folder.
For you to understand how it works, I am attaching a template from my Real Chord EPIC_ROCK video.
https://app.box.com/s/4wmrjsn971kn62vgediadtpdq58se3u7
In this case because it was mainly an "experimental style" I have made only Major and Minor versions for the time being.
«When it's done, I'll upload it again in a demo video».
However, in Event and in Real Chord (audio) we can construct up to 13 different chords (7, m7, 6, m6, sus, dim etc.)
So, the great thing here is that in every different chord there is another wav file which means that if we put our imaginations to work creatively, we can achieve a very high level of realism.
The number 130 in the name of each folder indicates the original tempo bpm at which it was recorded so that the system knows the speed to automatically synchronize it with the midi clock.
In each variation we can have a different Real Chord.
The method used is a Time Stretch so we understand that there is some limitation here as far as Real Chords are concerned to be tolerable listening mainly at lower bpm.
The tolerable range we usually have (depending on the audio content) is around -20bpm from the original tempo.
However, some efforts are already being made by the company to improve this algorithm even more.
Of course, from the factory the Event comes with a huge ready-made Real Chord palette which contains a lot of options with acoustic and electric guitars to whole music takes (mainly Country) which of course follow the chords which are impressive.
So, download my file and see how the audio chords are organized that in my case I have made with the Cubase 12 and some Spitfire Audio VST Instruments.
In this way the Event system knows the original speed so automatically after we open it and select it in any variation it is directly synchronized with the midi clock without any additional process. Just copy/paste in USER MODELING/REAL CHORD folder.
I should also say that in the same way, i.e., with a simple copy and paste, we can also copy midi files in the Modeling folder and simply open them in any variation we want, where automatically and without any other processing the midi file follows the chords of the style.
I also recently made a video about Ketron's new "MIDI" innovation called: MULTICHORDS and MULTIBASS.
Watch the video https://youtu.be/oGppdIbencU
P.S In this time I also appear in the video
Thanks

[terryB]

Is there such a thing as a Ketron forum where we could read about the attributes of their keyboards, rather than a Yamaha keyboard dedicated forum 

Cheers

[Henni]

Hi terryB,

It's even easier - simply don't follow or read the topics of no interest to you, in this case only one topic. Same as I also do not read EVERY article in the newspaper although I still purchase it.

All the best,

Henni

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Hennie :

I understand what you are saying.

On the other hand all of us have to respect and accept this forum is a Yamaha forum.
Not all members of this forum do agree all competitor's details are to be shown here. IMHO they are right.

I am sure Sokratis will agree.
Perhaps Sokratis is willing to tell us where we can find the Event's forum ( and/or website ) where all Event's information can/will be found for all those who are interested. 

Best regards, JH

[BogdanH]

Hello Sokratis,
Thank you a lot for taking the effort for further explanation, which made me to better understand how things work on Event. Yes, you can call me sceptic or whatever... but to believe, I just need to understand things. The way Event works (in style creation) seems to be very different compared to Yamaha and that makes the whole thing "unbelievable".
I have seen too many great demos in past (also for Yamaha keyboards), but later it turned out, that not everything that was presented, can actually be created on keyboard itself. What I'm saying is, in my opinion, keyboard shouldn't be advertised for something that requires external (3rd party) software.
I can't afford TOTL keyboard like Event. However I'm always interested on latest innovations, by hoping that these innovations will one day be implemented in more affordable keyboards.

Bogdan

[DerekA]

If I'm following this properly, then what you are saying is that in effect each chord can have its own pattern within the part. So while on Yamaha you define one pattern per style part / variation, and it transposes according to the chord, the Ketron can use a selection of different patterns.

Could be interesting - but could also be overused if you're not careful

[maartenb]

Is there such a thing as a Ketron forum where we could read about the attributes of their keyboards, rather than a Yamaha keyboard dedicated forum 

Not to put oil on the fire, and with all due respect, but I don't understand your and some others problem with this thread.

Newly released keyboards of other brands give a peek in the possible Yamaha keyboard future. I am very grateful to Sokratis1974 for all the time and effort he puts in posting long, detailed information here, answering our questions and making videos.

The whole Event discussion is neatly isolated in one (1) thread and can be easily skipped if you're not interested.

Do you really want me to go create an account on a Ketron forum, because I can't discuss the technology of this keyboard on my beloved PSR Tutorial forum with the people I know? I hope not.


Maarten