Author Topic: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron  (Read 151316 times)

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Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #250 on: November 13, 2022, 01:20:08 PM »
Good points. One thing is for certain - any company who wants to go against Yamaha in the music business had better "go big or go home." Yamaha has the support and dealer network in place over much of the world. Ketron is up against two issues: 1) Producing a superior product and 2) Getting it out there so people can try it out and perhaps buy it. There's no money in a product that just sits as inventory 🤣.
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #251 on: November 13, 2022, 03:12:29 PM »
Hi Lee :

In most Event video's this keyboard seems to sound OK, seems to look well, the specs are shown but ... the product is high priced.
We do not hear one single word about their global distribution strategy, dealership and after sales service.
A very unusual commercial approach, IMO.
 
I think you made a proper analysis.
There are too many unanswered questions, too many question marks that might frighten potential dealers and endusers.
It feels so risky and irresponsible to spend this amount of money. No Event for me. ;) 

JH




 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #252 on: November 13, 2022, 03:22:16 PM »
Agreed, Jeff. It does sound great but what good is that when you can't even get one 🤣?
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline rphillipchuk

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #253 on: November 13, 2022, 03:56:31 PM »
Good points. One thing is for certain - any company who wants to go against Yamaha in the music business had better "go big or go home." Yamaha has the support and dealer network in place over much of the world. Ketron is up against two issues: 1) Producing a superior product and 2) Getting it out there so people can try it out and perhaps buy it. There's no money in a product that just sits as inventory 🤣.

Well Said Lee !
Yamaha DGX-670 connected to a Yamaha MW12 Mixer connected to a pair of Yamaha MSP10's + Yamaha SW10 Subwoofer using Songbook+.

MacBook Pro 32 Gigs Ram, 1 Terrabyte SSD

www.midisafe.com
www.yamahastylesonly.com
 
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Offline mikf

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #254 on: November 13, 2022, 09:05:46 PM »
Lee , It depends on their business plan. A company with low overheads, bare bones infrasttucture may only need to sell 500 of one keyboard model to be deemed successful while a giant like Yamaha might need to sell 10,000. Ketron may not care that much about growing to compete head to head with the mega companies. There’s lots of ways to be a successful business or maybe even get acquired and never need to invest in infrastructure.
Mike
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #255 on: November 13, 2022, 11:09:53 PM »
Agreed, Mike. The bigger they are, the harder it is to maintain market share. There have been companies bigger than Yamaha that disappeared overnight! Ketron may feel that selling 500 units is a major win for them. Gross sales sometimes mean nothing. It's "How much profit did you make?"
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline usaraiya

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #256 on: November 14, 2022, 12:45:27 AM »
Got this email from AJ, Ketron sales/support:

Taking orders now until 11/15/2022 for delivery in December 2022. Cost is $4,999.00 shipped.
Next orders will be in Feb 2023 for delivery in March 2023.

KETRON EVENT DEMOS (Please subscribe to our Youtube channel for more)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igss1qU9_8c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QrzAgrqR5M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpzKndCMOkg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q_MbeQvpFU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sakfcfkzKc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9folgah8v0



KETRON USA

"It has to sound right & tight"
 
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Offline mikf

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #257 on: November 14, 2022, 05:21:56 PM »
Lee - there is also the question of focus. Yamaha do a pretty good job of dividing up the company into smaller units that focus on specific ranges of instruments, while probably still being able to leverage corporate resources at least somewhat. And I am sure that somewhere in the Yamaha org there is a middle manager that lives or dies by the Genos sales.
But to put the Genos into perspective, Yamaha make well over 100,000 acoustic pianos per year. Taking into account the average selling price of an acoustic is probably close to 5 or 6 times the selling price of a Genos, that makes Genos no more than a drop in the ocean in the Yamaha spectrum. So how much time do you think the top corporate people really spend worrying about whether or not a Ketron or a Korg arranger might impact their Genos sales?
People on the forum spend a lot of time talking about how Yamaha need to wake up and address the competition for the Genos. Do you think Yamaha as a whole spend as much time??
But Ill bet Ketron talk about nothing else.
Mike
 

Offline pjd

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #258 on: November 14, 2022, 06:02:55 PM »
I think I posted this breakdown of USA sales (by dollar volume) once before:

Fretted Products           $1,891M
Pro Audio                     853M
Wind Instruments              611M
Percussion                    374M
Acoustic Pianos               307M
DJ Gear                       264M
Digital Pianos                182M
Keyboard Synthesizer          159M
Portable Keyboards            127M
Stringed Instruments          125M
Electronic Player Pianos      100M

Market data from 2019, source: NAMM. "Portable keyboards" is subdivided by retail value:

Keyboards under $199         41.3%
Keyboards over $199          58.7%

That's NAMMs methodology, not mine.  :)

Compared to guitars, we're chump change.  ;D

All the best -- pj




Offline ton37

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #259 on: November 14, 2022, 06:08:17 PM »
Hi @Mikf, I partially agree with you. But don't underestimate that nowadays big internationals also focus strongly on 'brand awareness' and global 'advertising'. So while this keyboard customer base may be a bit smaller, for the company it's certainly an important aspect of its global revenues throught the proces mentioned above.  ;)
It's not always only the profit of the 'hardware' sales, 'marketing the brand' is also important.
My best regards,
Ton
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #260 on: November 14, 2022, 07:15:55 PM »
Good points, ton37 and Mike.

Spin off sales are also critical for Yamaha. I've owned several PSR and Tyros models but I've also owned a few Motif, MOX, stage pianos, and Clavinova pianos. I'm probably a drop in the bucket compared to other players but Yamaha is aware of the importance of players like me who venture into products other than the Genos. They'll do a lot to keep us guys around.

As a sidebar, I used to play a little guitar in high school. I'm thinking of picking up a Yamaha student acoustic to use in our jazz trio. Playing background piano gets boring after a while unless your name is Oscar Peterson or Diana Krall 🤣. If I do this, there's yet another side sale for Yamaha.
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline mixermixer

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #261 on: November 14, 2022, 07:47:25 PM »
I think I posted this breakdown of USA sales (by dollar volume) once before:

Fretted Products           $1,891M
Pro Audio                     853M
Wind Instruments              611M
Percussion                    374M
Acoustic Pianos               307M
DJ Gear                       264M
Digital Pianos                182M
Keyboard Synthesizer          159M
Portable Keyboards            127M
Stringed Instruments          125M
Electronic Player Pianos      100M

Market data from 2019, source: NAMM. "Portable keyboards" is subdivided by retail value:

Keyboards under $199         41.3%
Keyboards over $199          58.7%

That's NAMMs methodology, not mine.  :)

Compared to guitars, we're chump change.  ;D

All the best -- pj





Interesting to see whats the updated breakdown, Yamaha is having issues with supply in their Dante products in the Pro Audio spectrum. All their digital mixing consoles haven't been available for quite some time. Thinking that would take a hit.
 

Offline mikf

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #262 on: November 14, 2022, 10:54:08 PM »
My guess is that for the worldwide acoustic piano sales the number is probably about
$1.5Bn - they claim to make over 100,000 plus pianos a year. Say at about average $15,000.  Uprights maybe average $2- 3000, but grands go all the way up to 100k plus for a Bosendorfer. They make about 300 Bosendorfers per annum.
Genos worldwide sales annually - maybe a few million $$s, probably less than one days output of acoustic pianos.
Puts it in perspective.
Mike
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #263 on: November 15, 2022, 09:26:17 AM »
Hopefully, Yamaha has also to prepare the future and not only looks at the past financial results.

I think Genos participates to Yamaha's reputation, relatively more than its part in sales and has a big internal impact for Yamaha R&D results.
So it could have more strategic value for this.

 
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Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #264 on: November 15, 2022, 09:42:50 AM »
Is it realistic to think the new Genos2 price might be approx. 10% higher than the present Genos price ?
( The present Genos price already has been increased recently by 10% compared to the 2017 price due to the covid 19 problems in 2021/22, am I right ?? ).

Best regards, JH
« Last Edit: November 15, 2022, 02:54:18 PM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Offline EileenL

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #265 on: November 15, 2022, 11:39:40 AM »
It is not realistic to think anything until a new keyboard is launched and the price is then known. Then it makes sense to talk about it. All this Will it Won't it Dose it Doesn't it gets you know where.
Just enjoy what you have and produce some nice music. Let the forum get back to what it is supposed to do and help one another get the best from what we have and enjoy trying new things. I bet half the people on here have not used all of the functions on their Yamaha keyboards that they could.
 
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Offline Henni

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #266 on: November 15, 2022, 11:52:33 AM »
From that recent video about Ketron's new release, it sounds like they are using Band In A Box (BIAB) styling technology. For those who have never used this program, all you do is insert the basic chords in a song and BIAB generates the correct styling complete with stylistic chords. It can be Country, Jazz, Blues, you name it BIAB will do it. That, combined with what sounds like round robin styling, will make the Ketron a most formidable competitor to the PA5X and Genos 2. But there's more...

It's one thing to produce perfect sounds and styles on a new arranger. It's another thing to make the device usable. Many have criticized the PA5X operating system as being clunky and too tech orientated. This falls under the category of "usability." For the better part, the Genos is easy to use, other than the Style Editor being similar to a bull in China shop. If Korg and Ketron have produced a superior product than the Genos, that's one thing. If their OS system is clunky or too complicated, Yamaha has little to worry about. I'm sure Genos 2 will give these two other companies pause.

Agreed: The impression I get is that finally Ketron made an arranger that would compete with Band In a Box. They use live wave samples for the style parts with solo live instruments following your chord progressions accurately. Some thought that this could not be done in a Live environment as BIAB can analyze your song before rendering it and Event cannot.

My hat off to Ketron. I've always said that this would be the way forward for arrangers. Once again Ketron is the trailblazer is this new environment. You bet I will have one of these in the near future...
« Last Edit: November 17, 2022, 02:47:38 PM by Henni »
...Fly Forever!
 

Offline ton37

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #267 on: November 15, 2022, 02:04:18 PM »
It is not realistic to think anything until a new keyboard is launched and the price is then known. Then it makes sense to talk about it. All this Will it Won't it Dose it Doesn't it gets you know where.
Just enjoy what you have and produce some nice music. Let the forum get back to what it is supposed to do and help one another get the best from what we have and enjoy trying new things. I bet half the people on here have not used all of the functions on their Yamaha keyboards that they could.
Hi @Eleen, your reactions to this are predictable and are also appreciated. If people are annoyed by it, they can just skip it and not read it. But don't deprive the forum members for some 'daydreaming', it's just for fun for many. It doesn't harm anyone and it keeps the 'jeu' in a bit. Usually the 'having' is the end of the pleasure... happy daydreaming ;-)
My best regards,
Ton
 

Offline mikf

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #268 on: November 15, 2022, 02:56:11 PM »
It is not realistic to think anything until a new keyboard is launched and the price is then known.
But it is launched and the price is known…… this thread is about the Ketron Event not the next Yamaha.
Mike
 

Offline EileenL

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #269 on: November 15, 2022, 03:26:40 PM »
This thread has been posted on the Genos section and seems to be about three different keyboards Korg, Ketron and Genos. It is Jeff that mentions the price of new Genos which of course is not known.
  Of course, knowing what else is out there is of interest to some and there have been links posted for us to see.
  I am not out to deprive anything from anyone, but I think this thread is now going round in ever decreasing circles and maybe should be moved to general chit chat.

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #270 on: November 15, 2022, 03:44:00 PM »
Eileen's points are well taken and respected.

She's correct in saying the main goal of this forum is, "How to do this or that" on the Genos because the manual is ambiguous or too general. Its been five years since the Genos was released and I'd venture to say that most topics and issues have been covered. That leaves us to discuss, "What's next for Genos owners?" The only fodder currently available that can stimulate such conversation or dreams is the emergence of two competing arrangers. It's natural for this discussion to take place. If Yamaha even catches one idea from our discussion to add to the Genos 2, we all win.

Move it to another topic area? Perhaps but I have this forum saved in my favorites. I really dislike having to go to the Home page and dig for the topic. I suppose that once found, I could create a second favorite, but the speculation about Genos 2 and its relationship to the two new products on the block is still very relevant. Despite the twists and turns in this ONE thread, it still boils down to our thoughts about the current Genos. For example, suppose someone says, "The PA5X can do 'this' but the Genos can't." Then, someone says, "Yes you can do that on the Genos. Here's how." Do we move this topic back here because all of a sudden, the question pertains to this part of the forum?

Leave this topic where it is.

Edit
One more thought, if I may. I've noticed in the past year that questions about the Genos are drifting very deep into areas where 99% of us never go, and that is recording and production. This is further proof that we've pretty much covered everything common to most players.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2022, 03:47:21 PM by Lee Batchelor »
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 
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Offline RoyB

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #271 on: November 15, 2022, 03:46:54 PM »
As the original poster, I started this thread in the Genos section as a news item of specific interest To Genos owners because a direct competitor to the Genos was about to be launched with some new interesting and unique features.

In the spirit of free debate, members have made contributions, expressed opinions and taken the discussion in the direction of their choosing (but still revolving around the Ketron Event compared to the Genos). It is all rather harmless (and some of it is informative). so I don't see anything wrong with that.

« Last Edit: November 15, 2022, 03:48:17 PM by RoyB »
Roy

Tyros 5-76; Roland FA08; Yammex V3; Behringer Q502USB; Arturia BeatStep; Alesis Elevate 3 MkIII;  Yamaha YST-FSW050; Sony MDR 7510; MultiTrackStudio Pro + AAMS.

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQu3I6XidcZWOmsl_FM49_Q/videos
 
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Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #272 on: November 15, 2022, 03:48:40 PM »
Agreed, Roy. If your topic had little relevance to most of us, it wouldn't occupy six pages of forum space 😉.
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline ton37

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #273 on: November 15, 2022, 04:02:50 PM »
This thread has been posted on the Genos section and seems to be about three different keyboards Korg, Ketron and Genos. It is Jeff that mentions the price of new Genos which of course is not known.
  Of course, knowing what else is out there is of interest to some and there have been links posted for us to see.
  I am not out to deprive anything from anyone, but I think this thread is now going round in ever decreasing circles and maybe should be moved to general chit chat.
Ok, but where's that 'General Chit Chat' section? I assume you know the policy of the forum owner/forum moderators in this regard?

Additional: I can assure you if Yamaha only comes out with a new keyboard in 2024/2025 (I still count it on half 2023!) the 'chit chat' about Korg and Ketron (in combination/comparison with e.g. a SX-900/Genos1) only but will increase ..
« Last Edit: November 15, 2022, 04:17:06 PM by ton37 »
My best regards,
Ton
 

Offline pjd

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #274 on: November 15, 2022, 05:36:31 PM »
Agreed, Roy. If your topic had little relevance to most of us, it wouldn't occupy six pages of forum space 😉.

It's only bits. How much Internet space have we "wasted" -- a few hundred kilobytes?  ;D I'd rather worry about hunger and world peace.

MEH -- pj
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #275 on: November 15, 2022, 06:51:10 PM »
Right on, PJ. Down with war and hunger!
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline Henni

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #276 on: November 16, 2022, 01:10:00 PM »
The more videos I watch, the more I am convinced that this is like BIAB put into an arranger. It seems like the styles use mostly, if not only, audio parts. And then there is the solo parts which plays semi melodies that follows your chord progressions. Plus different intro/endings for different chords (not only majors & minors, but also for  purely different major chords) which will make things much less boring.

Once again Ketron made a stunning breakthrough and I simply cannot wait to have one of these. They are readily available around $4999 which is good value for money. For now I am collecting all videos I can find. No more tweaking midi styles. Nothing can compare with real life audio. You close your eyes and you hear a real band - as this IS a real band playing. No fakes anywhere to be found. AMAZING!!!

https://youtu.be/8glvNLZtph8  https://youtu.be/p07dCeTRcEw  https://youtu.be/MqWyyfh5ELQ  https://youtu.be/9ARTaU3I4nE  https://youtu.be/iqZSaQiBymk

https://youtu.be/V-VE02rdmjQ  https://youtu.be/gVWwrOSgvlY  https://youtu.be/z04kHuatFNU  https://youtu.be/C-WYrfDdRsA  https://youtu.be/i3deAuYNvjk

https://youtu.be/L-XPOkF6FvA  https://youtu.be/aSN-3xvRYwI  https://youtu.be/BKydoIukjLY  https://youtu.be/o_di2n-rCkU  https://youtu.be/o_W8ozk2ZhM

https://youtu.be/a8zOFRps0PQ  https://youtu.be/z04kHuatFNU  https://youtu.be/igss1qU9_8c

Apologies if some of these already appeared on this topic - I am merely listing EVERYTHING I can find above.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2022, 05:23:14 AM by Henni »
...Fly Forever!
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #277 on: November 16, 2022, 05:38:32 PM »
Hey Hennie :

It is great to hear your voice again. :)

It looks like you are very interested in the Event.
You are very familiar with Ketron, see your Audya5 you had in the past.

The sound and features of the Ketron's Event look great but their after sales service has always been a problem.
What about their dealership and service in your country, South Africa ?

For most members here Ketron's present global dealership and after sales service might be a serious problem.

Last but not least we do not know how the Yamaha's new Genos2
will look like and which novelties can be expected yet.

Best wishes, JH
« Last Edit: November 16, 2022, 05:43:02 PM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #278 on: November 16, 2022, 05:50:32 PM »
I used Band In A Box about eight years ago and even that version was and still is far superior to any arranger.

If Ketron has managed to turn this famous piece of software into an arranger, they'll be very popular. I have to say, after hearing the Ketron styles and then the Genos styles, the Genos styles sound way behind the times. Don't get me wrong. The Genos is still a stellar stage and home arranger but if Yamaha only "refreshes" the Genos 2 with some minor upgrades as they did with all five of the Tyros series, I won't be updating. Somehow I think Yamaha will do better then Ketron. Can't wait to find out 🤣!
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 
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Offline maartenb

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #279 on: November 18, 2022, 09:43:24 AM »
I used Band In A Box about eight years ago and even that version was and still is far superior to any arranger.

This can be explained by two factors:
  • BIAB knows the chord progression in advance, while an arranger has to operate in real time.
    This is the reason the bass for example sounds so great in BIAB. When you program a 7 chord and the corresponding "target" chord after it (like G7 - C), the bass might "walk" from G to C. An arranger can't do this, unless you play the walking bass line yourself.
     
  • BIAB is a PC based application.
    This gives BIAB access to much more RAM and disk space than that embedded in a musical instrument. BIAB also has way more processing power at its disposal than the embedded processor of an arranger.
    The sounds therefore can be better. For example, drums with different samples per hit existed as VSTs (virtual instruments on a computer) already years before. The Genos was "just" the first to implement it in an arranger. Another example, there are piano VSTs that sound better than the most expensive Clavinova. Just because the VST can have so much samples and processing.

BIAB and arrangers are two different animals, designed with different use cases in mind.


Maarten
 
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Offline maartenb

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #280 on: November 18, 2022, 10:09:35 AM »
I am merely listing EVERYTHING I can find above.

Thank you, Henni. This collection of demos does sound impressive.

I am just so curious to hear the Event in a real life situation, like someone playing a (cover) song with it. What will I hear then? Will the chord changes sounds smooth? How well will the "improv lines" follow the chord progression? Will the improv lines be musically useful and suiting to the song being played? Etc.


Maarten
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #281 on: November 18, 2022, 01:40:07 PM »
You're 100% right, Maarten. However, you're comparing the operational part of BIAB versus the Genos. It's like comparing apples to oranges but those are both fruit, just as the ultimate goal of BIAB and the Genos is to produce music.

I suppose what I'm saying is, the Event just sounds better with its far superior variations in background instrumentation. Ketron has managed to create a hybrid of BIAB and an arranger. That puts Yamaha WAY behind. The Genos is excellent but it still uses outdated, boiler plate patterns that just repeat. For me, if Genos 2 doesn't abandon that ancient technology and ends up as a refreshed Genos, I won't bother upgrading.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2022, 01:41:13 PM by Lee Batchelor »
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline Misu

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #282 on: November 18, 2022, 02:37:53 PM »
Hi to everyone,

IMO
With only 1Gb memory for the user, 7 inch fixed display and good sound it should be at a price between SX900 and Genos.
If it has greater style editing capabilities, let's say 3500 euros, it's a fair price.
I don't know anything about BIAB but for 3 years I've also had a KORG and in many styles variation 3 (7) G7 goes up with the bass and others to C as well as var.4 (dim) can do arpeggios and when changing it continues exactly as it should be.
Let's not forget that there are 6 chord variations in total.
Even the saxophone that follows the chords is not something new, but only something newly presented. I may be wrong.
I have enough styles with a melodic line on styles similar to some musettes on Main D.
Different inputs on Maj and Min have been with Korg for at least 15 years.
Even at Yamaha I have something like this, only that there is a condition to have the same sequence of C-F-G7 and Cm-Fm-G7 chords so that part of the channels can be used for both intros.
Or without this condition, fewer channels on intros.
If there are more news, we will see.

Best regards.
PSR SX-900; PA 1000; AKX 10
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #283 on: November 18, 2022, 02:38:27 PM »
Hi Guys :

Apparently the first Event's deliveries are expected to arrive at some European ( ? ) dealers just before X-mas 2022.
The second shipment has been planned for March 2023, one said.

We do not know if the delivered Event keyboards ( December 2022 ) have been sold yet ( to endusers ) and when dealers will have time to make their first video's on Youtube.
X-Mas is a very busy period and dealers' priority #1 will be to sell stock items as much as possible.

Up to now we have heard and seen very short Event video clips and specs.
I have to agree the Event seems to be impressive but what about " the real thing " ?

No video news before mid January 2023 ? Wait and see what will happen early January 2023.  ;)

BTW price info : approx. 5,000 US$.

Best regards, JH

« Last Edit: November 18, 2022, 03:06:24 PM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Offline mikf

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #284 on: November 18, 2022, 02:57:44 PM »
[quote author=Misu link=topic=64153.msg490829#msg490829 date=1668782273
IMO
With only 1Gb memory for the user, 7 inch fixed display and good sound it should be at a price between SX900 and Genos.
If it has greater style editing capabilities, let's say 3500 euros, it's a fair price.

[/quote]
Misu- not sure how you came up with this, Ketron Event price indications are much higher. Maybe 5000 euros or more. I think someone had a quote of $8000 Canadian, more like $6000 US.
Mike
 

Offline Misu

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #285 on: November 18, 2022, 03:01:09 PM »
Hi

I know it is 4900Euros
Here you have a friend comment from my country.

<<<At this price, the keyboard is a joke.
1GB for samplers?
As 1.5 are for extorting money from users, probably through the sound banks sold by them..
Then, in the digital age, is there no digital audio output?
not even at Output Analog, it doesn't say that they are balanced...
... not even at the entrances.
Even the Medeli AKX10, a Chinese product, has 256 polyphony.
1280 user sounds, means about 10 banks of 128, but with 1 GB of sample memory... if you can't combine the internal oscillators with the sampler ones, in 2 banks you've finished the sampler memory.
Ah, I was forgetting...
Now, in Genos, I have 38 packages of 128 users..
And I still have about 700-800mb free...

And 4 layers per user sound, again, it's a bad, amateurish joke.
On the Yamaha you have 32 stereo layers.

The sounds he boasts about are actually a kind of S.Articulation from Yamaha. Anyone who knows how the Saxophone sounds on the Genos, or other instruments with Articulation, what glissando, or other effects it has, understands what I'm saying.

2 simultaneous effects can be inserted as an insert on a style?
"1 Insert to Arranger chords, 1 Insert to Real Chord."
On Genos, I play all 8 tracks, you can even combine them.
Genos has 27 inset fx simultaneously. 27!!!

Genos is right, only Audio Style as drums, Ketron would also be bass.
They say it goes directly from the ssd (direct streaming), which would not load the sampler memory.
But also with Genos, Audio Style goes directly from usb or ssd.
I don't see anything written about sampler compatibility, not even with the old Ketron series.
What am I kidding?
On 2 Main out and 2 auxiliary (which from the description are actually 1 stereo)? But maybe I'm wrong and Aux 1 is a separate stereo output from Aux2.
Then we have L-R (Main), Ls-Rs (Aux1) and C-Sub (Aux2).
But if they are not balanced outputs, it's a shame of the sound, goodbye fidelity.

But what are the specifications, I would only understand a Ketron fan buying something like this, instead of a Genos.>>>

Regards
PSR SX-900; PA 1000; AKX 10
 

Offline mikf

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #286 on: November 18, 2022, 03:35:23 PM »
Misu - I see where your friend is coming from, but don’t think the ‘tech spec’ comparison approach is very important to most arranger buyers. For example I bet 90% of arranger players never mess with samples. Don’t care about layers etc.
 Do they like how it sounds, looks, plays, - thats what they will judge. I don’t think I have ever even looked at specs when buying a keyboard, I look at what others are saying about it, play it if possible then decide. $5000 is a lot, but not extraordinary for a TOTL arranger.
Ketron is a bit of a niche product, but based on what we see and hear so far, it seems impressive regardless of the specs.
Mike
 

Offline Henni

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #287 on: November 18, 2022, 04:13:48 PM »
If one could use some of the AWESOME BIAB wave loops to modify existing audio Ketron styles, the results would be AMAZING!!!! And I have a strong suspicion that this might just be possible...
...Fly Forever!
 

Offline rphillipchuk

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #288 on: November 18, 2022, 05:04:02 PM »
What I find amazing is that even though the PA5X is relative new, for every one video that Ketron makes, there are 10 that are professionally made for the PA5X.

I know that Ketron is small compared to "Korg" but surely they could spend some money on marketing to at least compete with Korg.

I have a huge interest in the "Event" but I cannot play one, I cannot see one, I cannot touch one ..... So all that I have left is the few videos that I can find on Youtube.  I just got back from "Long and Mcquade's" and there is absolutely no info of its existence on their main Site.

I have done the math and if you order from AJ or any other American Company, they will happily send you an Event for approximately $7500/8000 Canadian total ( $4999.00 + State Tax + Shipping (?) + Customs + exchange rate )

That is a lot of money to spend on a keyboard unseen.

I have saved and put aside some monies and I am ready to purchase. The only Boards that interest me are:
Ketron Event
Yamaha CVP 809
Korg 88 PA5X



 
Yamaha DGX-670 connected to a Yamaha MW12 Mixer connected to a pair of Yamaha MSP10's + Yamaha SW10 Subwoofer using Songbook+.

MacBook Pro 32 Gigs Ram, 1 Terrabyte SSD

www.midisafe.com
www.yamahastylesonly.com
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #289 on: November 18, 2022, 06:08:40 PM »
What I find amazing is that even though the PA5X is relative new, for every one video that Ketron makes, there are 10 that are professionally made for the PA5X.
I know that Ketron is small compared to "Korg" but surely they could spend some money on marketing to at least compete with Korg.
I have a huge interest in the "Event" but I cannot play one, I cannot see one, I cannot touch one ..... So all that I have left is the few videos that I can find on Youtube.  I just got back from "Long and Mcquade's" and there is absolutely no info of its existence on their main Site.
I have done the math and if you order from AJ or any other American Company, they will happily send you an Event for approximately $7500/8000 Canadian total ( $4999.00 + State Tax + Shipping (?) + Customs + exchange rate )
That is a lot of money to spend on a keyboard unseen.
I have saved and put aside some monies and I am ready to purchase. The only Boards that interest me are:
Ketron Event
Yamaha CVP 809
Korg 88 PA5X
Fellow Canadian here 👍. The Event is a no go for me. Too much money for an unknown and unplayable keyboard before purchase. If L&M knows nothing about it, no one else will. I'm confident Yamaha's answer to the Event and 5X will be amazing. I'm willing to wait.
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #290 on: November 19, 2022, 11:59:48 AM »
Hey Lee :

The Event is no option for me either.

Will Yamaha launch the Genos2 in 2023 ?
It is so quiet ... much too quiet.

Best wishes, JH
 

Offline EileenL

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #291 on: November 19, 2022, 03:07:07 PM »
Yamaha usually launch around October time, so it is far too early for any information yet.

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #292 on: November 19, 2022, 05:33:30 PM »
Thank you for your reply, Eileen.
I have to keep my Tyros4 for at least another year then.  :)

JH
 
« Last Edit: November 19, 2022, 05:35:16 PM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Offline hammer

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #293 on: November 19, 2022, 06:13:11 PM »
I have owned the Ketron S7 keyboard, the Ketron SD90 module, and stll own
The Ketron SD40 module.  In the past I have owned Korgs, Rolands, ane
All the Yamaha arrangers starting with the
PSR3000, The T4, T5, and the Genos.  Believe
me when I tell you NOT ANY of those keyboards
even come close to producing the realistic instrument
sounds as do the Ketron products. 

Deane
 

Offline ton37

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #294 on: November 19, 2022, 07:54:23 PM »
Mmm.. very interesting, that's quite a statement @hammer  ;)

I'v never heard a ketron 'live', but will do once I get a chance to hear it by myself!
My best regards,
Ton
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #295 on: November 19, 2022, 09:21:12 PM »
Believe me when I tell you NOT ANY of those keyboards
even come close to producing the realistic instrument
sounds as do the Ketron products. 
Deane


I have never heard that before !!!  ::)

JH
« Last Edit: November 19, 2022, 09:25:59 PM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Offline ton37

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #296 on: November 19, 2022, 10:10:31 PM »
I have owned the Ketron S7 keyboard, the Ketron SD90 module, and stll own
The Ketron SD40 module.  In the past I have owned Korgs, Rolands, ane
All the Yamaha arrangers starting with the
PSR3000, The T4, T5, and the Genos.  Believe
me when I tell you NOT ANY of those keyboards
even come close to producing the realistic instrument
sounds as do the Ketron products. 

Deane
Pls. could you explain what did you miss in the Ketron as you bought e.g. all those yamaha's, even a Genos. Why didn't stick with tfhe Ketron sec. Maybe only for the soundquality etc. in those mudules? Or..?
My best regards,
Ton
 

Offline hammer

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #297 on: November 19, 2022, 11:59:59 PM »
Ok, I have been performing music professionally for 65 plus years and am now 82 and very happily retired.
As I got older some of the equipment was to heavy to carry out to 5-6 gigs a week and carry back into the house
so I moved on to something I thought  was lighter.  I still use my Ketron SD40 module and it is awesome!  I also
have a Yamaha PSR SX900.  I did not like the Genus because of it's weird shape.  One of the best arrangers I had
for gigs was a Korg MicroArranger but it broke and the cost of a repair was way more than it cost to buy one.
I still play 3-4 gigs each week and some days I use the SX900 and some the SD40.  I was blessed to play next
to some of the best players around in the big band days and like I said, Ketron by far has the best realistic sounds
for instruments. 
Now, this Is not to say all the others are not good arrangers because they are.  It all depends on what each player's
personal real life performance experience is and how there personal tastes swing.  None of the arrangers I purchased
sounded bad.

Hammer


 
The following users thanked this post: ton37

Offline rphillipchuk

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #298 on: November 20, 2022, 01:01:43 AM »
Ok, I have been performing music professionally for 65 plus years and am now 82 and very happily retired.
As I got older some of the equipment was to heavy to carry out to 5-6 gigs a week and carry back into the house
so I moved on to something I thought  was lighter.  I still use my Ketron SD40 module and it is awesome!  I also
have a Yamaha PSR SX900.  I did not like the Genus because of it's weird shape.  One of the best arrangers I had
for gigs was a Korg MicroArranger but it broke and the cost of a repair was way more than it cost to buy one.
I still play 3-4 gigs each week and some days I use the SX900 and some the SD40.  I was blessed to play next
to some of the best players around in the big band days and like I said, Ketron by far has the best realistic sounds
for instruments. 
Now, this Is not to say all the others are not good arrangers because they are.  It all depends on what each player's
personal real life performance experience is and how there personal tastes swing.  None of the arrangers I purchased
sounded bad.

Hammer

I wish Ketron would give you an "Event" for a month or so and then have you give your thoughts on it......... You would be the perfect user to do this......
Yamaha DGX-670 connected to a Yamaha MW12 Mixer connected to a pair of Yamaha MSP10's + Yamaha SW10 Subwoofer using Songbook+.

MacBook Pro 32 Gigs Ram, 1 Terrabyte SSD

www.midisafe.com
www.yamahastylesonly.com
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #299 on: November 20, 2022, 07:09:21 AM »
Hi Guys :

I think I understand Deane's words better now. ;)
Apparently it was/is much more a weight problem than a sound quality issue.

Based upon the present very short Ketron/Event video impressions I have seen/heard up to now, it is much too early to judge this new arranger, IMHO.
Hopefully during the first quarter of 2023 we might read the first endusers' reactions.

Ketron's global market share has never been important compared to Yamaha's and even Korg's, whatever the cause may be.
The Event's first sound quality looks to be OK but its price and specs have not convinced me to replace my TY4 by this new arranger.

Cheers, JH
« Last Edit: November 20, 2022, 07:12:59 AM by Jeff Hollande »