Author Topic: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron  (Read 183155 times)

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Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #950 on: March 07, 2023, 03:55:29 PM »
Good video, Bogdan.

From what I see, the Event user interface is overly complicated. It relies heavily on the touch screen, which has a lot of content almost to the point of being visually "noisy." It may work for home players who have the luxury of time but despite his comments about the programmable buttons on the bottom, it appears clumsy and awkward for the live stage.

Even for home players, navigating their way through endless screens would become tiresome. Home player goals are identical to those of live stage players, and that's to play music, not be computer geeks. The Genos is more intuitive and better organized.

I didn't watch the whole video but I'd be concerned about the lack of Registration buttons, unless they're somewhere else. I didn't see any 👎.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2023, 04:00:01 PM by Lee Batchelor »
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #951 on: March 07, 2023, 04:54:41 PM »
...
I didn't watch the whole video but I'd be concerned about the lack of Registration buttons, unless they're somewhere else. I didn't see any 👎.
-you didn't watch whole video (the talk about registrations) and so it's kinda unfair to give thumb down.

I totally understand that not everyone might like Event.. same can be said for Korg or Yamaha -it's just great that we have choices.

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #952 on: March 07, 2023, 05:12:38 PM »
Just a caution: Be careful with these demos, and always try yourself if you can.

Tony from Bonners' demo was the only reason why I ended up buying the Pa5X.
In reality I couldn't make it sound anything like the demo.
I'm not as an advanced player of course, but it still disappointed me compared to the Genos which just seemed to sound better out of the box for several reasons.
Especially solo instruments like saxes (often used in the arranger world). The Genos has lots of articulation in tonnes of instruments that work on many dynamics. The Korg seemed completely flat to me in many departments (acoustic guitars, saxes and woodwind, brass). Just strange in comparison and not impressive for the price, more comparable to legacy/XG sounds in the Genos. (in my opinion, it is subjective of course). I reckon a Tyros 4 or 5 would be better for me even if I'm being honest. We are talking 10 year old Yamaha keyboards.


This is what worries me with the Event. Great styles that the keyboard can start and end with since they are live and extremely impressive in demos, but in reality you will struggle with the menu system and solo instruments may not impress thus making the keyboard long term nowhere as good as a Yamaha.


I'm even reminded of Tony's demo of comparing the Roland RD2000 to a Nord Piano 4. The RD2000 seemed to win that one in that demo to my ears, but general consensus is Nord always has better samples than almost any other company. Again I bought the RD2000 based on that. Also disappointing in reality (to me) for various reasons. The base piano just didn't seem to sing as well as in that demo and seemed to fade away in any music I recorded with it. I constantly switched to an old sample the RD700NX or whatever. It just seemed weird. The CFX in the Genos is much brighter and cuts through mixes much better to the point I keep telling myself I should try other instruments and stop messing around with the CFX only, that was never the case on the Roland. In fact as far as I remember I preferred the Nord Piano 2 I briefly owned a while before the Roland. Easier to use and to get different sounds out of, and of course holds its value much better if you do want to ever sell it on.

However they record some of these demos: possibly changing EQ, compression, mastering, perhaps even the expert playing or whatever sometimes appears to paint a different picture to reality.


I guess what I'm trying to get at is don't JUST be sold by the sound in a demo. There are other factors to consider and especially think about how it will actually sound when YOU are playing the keyboard.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2023, 05:58:20 PM by AndrewKeyz »
Without Music, Life would be a Mistake.

Check out my Genos recordings & performances: http://www.youtube.com/andrewkeyz
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #953 on: March 07, 2023, 10:28:47 PM »
-you didn't watch whole video (the talk about registrations) and so it's kinda unfair to give thumb down.

I totally understand that not everyone might like Event.. same can be said for Korg or Yamaha -it's just great that we have choices.

Bogdan
Agreed, Bogdan. Actually, I finished watching the video. You can create registrations but only through the screen and in a somewhat convoluted manner, unless I missed something. The Event still looks like a "computer first and musical instrument after." That doesn't work for the serious stage player. We need access to key functions through dedicated buttons, not touch screen options and menus. We simply do not have the time to do these things any other way.
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline Danny1972

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #954 on: March 08, 2023, 11:40:39 AM »
New video about Event was just published:
AjamSonic: Event Q&A

I find it quite informative. As I always say, it's not about which keyboard is the best in the world -it's about which is the best for you.

Bogdan

Hi Bogdan,

Thank you for sharing this, watched it all the way and very informative as you say. I really like the OS, it's very similar to my SD60 which I find easy and intuitive to use so I'm glad to see that the system is retained in the Event also.

The questions that I would have asked were not included so I wrote them in the comments of the video in the hope I get some replies, based on the replies I may take a serious look at this keyboard.

All the best,
Danny
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #955 on: March 08, 2023, 11:55:42 AM »
Hi Guys :

I am missing the multipads in the Event.
I am aware of the Event's solo parts but it is a completely different feature than multipads.

According to Sokratis the multipad section might come later in the Event ( if I am not wrong !!! ) but I really wonder how Ketron will fix that though ... not possible, IMO.
Maybe I misunderstood Sokratis' words ... if so plse forgive me ...
When I am wrong Sokratis will surely correct me. ;)

Best regards, JH
« Last Edit: March 08, 2023, 12:08:36 PM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Offline musicteach

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #956 on: March 08, 2023, 12:41:54 PM »
I am a big Yamaha fan, and own quite a few Yamaha instruments, but I would buy whatever keyboard I thought was superior (and that I could afford).  And I feel for these companies who are trying to compete.  Yamaha sells far more units, they have massive manufacturing plants, R&D departments, artist input, dealer network, and an impressive company culture.  How do these smaller makers compete?  I imagine the only way they can grab some market share is to innovate something new.  And it seems like they are doing that with these audio backing tracks.  As a band in the box user I am skeptical of the more audio based styles (I believe this is what the BIAB real styles are).  Somehow these styles don't sound as great over a PA system.  MIDI and samples has some downsides, but this is a proven and effective technology. 

A couple years ago I had a visit from a Yamaha rep from Japan.  He came to see our school because we buy a lot of Yamaha stuff.  He was so knowledgeable, helpful, and obviously dedicated to the company.  It really left me impressed with the company.  But, like most musicians, I'll buy whatever instrument is best for me.
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #957 on: March 08, 2023, 01:01:12 PM »
hi Danny

...I really like the OS, it's very similar to my SD60 which I find easy and intuitive to use so I'm glad to see that the system is retained in the Event also.
...
-now that is interesting that you say that. Ant that actually proves, that it's hard to "judge" things without trying them for at least few days. As you noticed, we tend to criticize every OS if it doesn't look like on Yamaha.. and if it does, then we say "eh, is a Yamaha copy". On the other hand, when I bough my first Yamaha, it also wasn't everything that obvious to me -means, certain time is needed to understand the idea behind.

My opinion about Event user interface is mixed... but one is for sure, it would help immensely, if it would have more graphical elements: icons, different sections coloring/shading, etc. Now it looks quite monotone and confusing -one can easy get lost in various options.

Same as musicteach above (posted while I'm typing), I try to be open minded and ready to recognize competition's advantages (by not denying them). It can be, that Event is not "my kind" of keyboard, but that doesn't decrease it's value.

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline Danny1972

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #958 on: March 08, 2023, 01:23:52 PM »

My opinion about Event user interface is mixed... but one is for sure, it would help immensely, if it would have more graphical elements: icons, different sections coloring/shading, etc. Now it looks quite monotone and confusing -one can easy get lost in various options.

Bogdan

I am pretty sure that there was an option to change the display background, colours and fonts on the SD60 but I didn't mind the defaults but I will try it later.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the OS on the Ketron's are perfect at all and I still think the Yamaha's are easier, but I would say that as I have been using Yamaha all my life and I have never found it confusing whereas I can't say that for both Korg and Ketron up until recently really. I didn't like the OS of the Solton X1 and then the Audya and found them both confusing but I think it really changed for the better when Ketron introduced the touch screen, from the SD7 onwards I think. And as for Korg, the OS had me confused and was a nightmare (still is) on my Korg i30, only slightly better on the Pa80/Pa1x/Pa2x but it started to really improve from the Pa3x generation and now with the Pa5x is radically different from previous Korgs and closer to Yamaha which suits me fine.

Other OS system that I liked using was GEM, I still have my WK8 Megastation and the OS is very simple, I also still have a KN7000 and I must admit I find the OS confusing, as I do with the Roland Ea7.

So it really is about what you're used to because I know may people really praised how easy OS of the Technics was where I struggle with it.

I still find the Yamaha's the easiest to use overall though.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2023, 01:26:48 PM by Danny1972 »
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #959 on: March 08, 2023, 03:59:45 PM »
IMHO it is not easy to go for another brand when a player is used to work with Yamaha arranger(s) for a longer period of time.

We all are so familiar with these Yamaha arrangers and know all their pros and cons so well after all these years.

The Event seems to be a very interesting competitor.

I honestly believe the Event could become a popular instrument but it will be very hard for Ketron to convince Yamaha customers to change their mind.

Best wishes, JH





 

Offline Danny1972

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #960 on: March 08, 2023, 04:33:06 PM »
but it will be very hard for Ketron to convince Yamaha customers to change their mind.

Best wishes, JH

I think that would be a mistake. The only person who needs to be convinced is oneself if you want to change altogether, but personally I don't think it always works because you'll always end up missing something you were used to. The only way it could work would be if one owned multiple keyboards so that it covers all bases but people may not want to do that either. The reality is that there isn't an arranger keyboard that will cover everything perfectly and it will be down to the one that suits you the most and live with the limitations you may think it has.

I would go as far as to say that it is very unlikely (if at all) that any person on this forum would switch from Yamaha to Ketron without having any Yamaha to fall back on. I couldn't do it anyway, there are things on the Genos/SX900 that I couldn't do without.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2023, 04:35:36 PM by Danny1972 »
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #961 on: March 08, 2023, 05:37:18 PM »
Hey Danny :

I really understand what you are saying.

In general most people ( I know ) have one keyboard only ( for many reasons  ).
All of them are Yamaha owners and were Roland and/or Technics players before.
For many reasons they are happy with their Yammi and they are
very interested in the new 2 high end arrangers of Ketron and Korg.
BTW, who is not interested in the newest arrangers ? ;)

They all say they want to know Yamaha's answer first and finally will go for a Yamaha, I guess, if there is a need for a new arranger.

JH






 
 

Offline pjd

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #962 on: March 08, 2023, 07:10:17 PM »
But, like most musicians, I'll buy whatever instrument is best for me.

Amen! And I will stick with that instrument until it's "used up."

Love the one you're with -- pj    :D
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #963 on: March 09, 2023, 07:01:35 AM »
Agreed, Bogdan. Actually, I finished watching the video. You can create registrations but only through the screen and in a somewhat convoluted manner, unless I missed something. The Event still looks like a "computer first and musical instrument after." That doesn't work for the serious stage player. We need access to key functions through dedicated buttons, not touch screen options and menus. We simply do not have the time to do these things any other way.
It strikes me that you talk about the lack of Event switches when many of you (like me) have Genos.
On what you wrote "That doesn't work for the serious stage player" I would like to speak to you as a Stage Player.
As I have said many times, I am a professional musician and have made a living solely from this work (music in live performances) since 1990.
That is, about 33 years, so since you bring up the subject (Stage Player) I will speak to you clearly from this side.
So, I work almost every day with Genos (in hotels and in various live performances) because I haven't had time to prepare the Event for my work yet.
So, I have worked since 2018 when I bought Genos thousands of hours on stage (as a Stage Player) so I know very well both the positives and the negatives.
So really, how can you talk about a lack of switches and excessive use of the screen in the Event when the Yamaha in the Genos does not have basic switches and also in the Genos we are forced to work too much or even more exclusively from the screen?
Shall we compare them? Because I see some myths being created around the subject.
So, we're going to play a question and answer game and I'm just going to put in real facts.

1. Styles & Voices switches.
Question: Does Genos have switches for Styles and Voices? Answer: No. Basically there are two Style and Voice switches, but the only thing the Style switch does is just open the list of styles, but selection is done exclusively, either from the screen or from the wheel, and the Voice switch only does presents us with the content with the settings of the selected sound. Nothing else.
So, in both cases the work is done exclusively from the screen.
Here, too, a particularly negative point must be noted: There are no folders in Genos User in categories such as Presets, nor in Styles, nor in Voice. The only solution is for the user to create them and of course there is no corresponding User switch.
Hmmm a lot of screen work.
Let's compare now: Question: Does Event have switches for Styles and Voice? Answer Yes, and in fact there is a separate switch for User Voice as well as there is a separate switch for User Style.
Of course, there are ready User folders with all the categories just like there are in the Presets. On the other hand, although there is a series of switches for both uses, however when we select PRESET STYLES, or PRESET VOICE, what we need to do is simply press once on the screen and select either from the left side the list of Styles , or from the right side the list of Voices, in which case the appropriate list is automatically activated on the switches, having at the same time the option to either choose a category, or by repeatedly pressing the switches, the pages of the lists are changed.

2. Fills & Breaks
Question: Does Genos have Fill switches?
Answer: No. Fills are ONLY activated by the Variation switches and only the current Fill is activated. And if I want to play for example Variation 2 but activate Fill 4 is that possible? No. Is there any alternative way to do this? No.
Question: Does Event have Fill switches? Answer: Yes. It has a Fill switch which activates the current Fill. Is there any alternative way to do this? Yes, two ways:
A) Simply by selecting the permanent icon from the right side of the screen called FILL & BREAK and immediately appear at the bottom of the screen (in icons and without blocking the rest of the screen) both the 4 Fill and the 4 Break. https://app.box.com/s/ywwltf07sp2g87xnebha58im0vgp60v0
B) By enabling AUTOFILL, it works the same way as Genos. That is, by pressing the corresponding Variation, the corresponding Fill is also activated.
So, the answer is Yes! In Event it is possible to choose a different Fill and a different Break than what we are playing, as well as having two different alternative selection modes.

3. Registration & Playlist.
Question: Does Genos have Registration switches? Answer: Yes. It has 10 different switches and two additional +- REGIST switches. BANK.
Question: When I have a full Live program that requires a lot of quick selection of Styles, Voices and many other options what can I do on a Yamaha Genos? Answer: We should create Registration Banks which will be stored in Playlists. Nice. Question: How many Playlists can I have at my disposal at a time: Answer: One. If we want a second Playlist, then we have to select it (from the screen of course) and load it. Very nice. Question: In the Playlist, what else can I save besides Registration? Answer: Nothing. Registration Bank only.
Question: How do we enter Playlist mode? Answer: From the Playlist switch. And the Registration options? After selecting the Playlist, we want to load, then the Registration Banks are selected from the 10 Registration switches.
Nice. Question: If I don't remember what each Registration Bank contains (it's impossible to remember them all) what alternative and quick solution do I have? The fastest solution is to assign to an ASSIGNABLE switch the "Regist. Bank Information" so during work when we don't remember something we should press the corresponding switch so that all the useful information appears on the screen.
Question: Does Event have Registration switches? Answer: No. It has 1 Registration switch where it enters the list of all Single Registrations.
Question: When I have a busy schedule that requires a lot of quick selections from Styles, Voices and many other options what can I do in a Ketron Event? Answer: We should create Performance Bank. What is this; It is a new Ketron platform (corresponding to the Genos Playlist) in which we can create and organize our Registrations with great ease thus creating our programs and having at our disposal 18 different large virtual Pads (versus 10 switches of Genos) on each page and of course having an unlimited number of files per Performance Bank. Nice. Question: How many Performance Banks can I have at my disposal at a time? Answer: Seven different Performance Banks. If we want to load another 7 different Performance Banks, what do we do? We load them directly from the disc since there is a direct load command (from the screen of course). Very nice. Question: In the Performance Bank what else can I save besides Registration? Answer: Both Styles and Voice.
Question: How do we enter Performance mode? Answer: From the Performance switch. The rest is done by the screen.
Nice. Question: If I don't remember what each Performance Bank contains what is my quick and alternative solution? Answer: There is no problem at all because the virtual Pads are very large and each Pad has the file name very clearly, as well as specifying whether it is Registration, Style, or Voice.
https://app.box.com/s/vg944hhyt74rzm572yaklczdex1tihlh

4. Sliders and Real Time control.
Question: If in Genos I want to control the general volume in Drums, Bass, Chord separately during the Live, is this possible? Answer: As a general tension no. What we can do is press SLIDER ASSING to toggle the Sliders mode and from there we have a Slider for each channel of the Style.
Question: If I turn one of the channels down or up while playing, will that have any effect on the balance of the Style? Answer: Yes, because the balance is also broken in the other parts of the Style, i.e., the changes we make in any channel will have an impact on all parts of the Style (variation Fill, Break, etc.).
Does this also apply to FX (Chorus, Reverb)? Yes. It will affect all parts of the Style.
Question: So, we can't have separate settings for Volume, Reverb, Chorus, Pan, etc.? Answer: Yes, it is possible, but this must be done exclusively through the Style Creator whenever this cannot be achieved during the live.
And although we of course can change something at the moment we are playing, but if we make even the slightest change in the mix of the style or any other change, then all parts of the Style are affected.
Question: Can we have a separate setting of the Insert FX in each Variation? Answer: No.
Question: If we want to lower the moment of Live, for example the Bass in all Styles, because there is a chance that we are playing in a venue with bad acoustics, so it bothers us, is this possible? Answer: No. At each Style change, the volume will return to the original mix. Question: And if we assign, for example, the Bass to a Live Control Slider? Answer: But it will work again after changing the Style the volume will return to the levels of the original mix.
Question: If at the Event I want to control the general volume in Drums, Bass, Chord separately during the Live, is this possible? Answer: Yes. We lower the general volume with separate Sliders in DRUMS/PERC, BASS, MIDI CHORDS, REAL CHORDS.
Question: If I raise or lower one of the Style channels while playing, will it affect the balance of the Style? Answer: No unless we want to. That is, if we choose Single, then any changes we make (now we play) will only affect the specific Variation, Fill, etc., while if we choose Global, then all the changes we make will affect the entire Style. The same is true for the Master FX (Reverb Chorus).
Question: Can we have a separate setting of the Insert FX in each Variation? Answer: Yes. We can have completely different setup of Insert FX in each Variation, Intro, Ending.

5. Midi Drum Mixer.
Question: Is there a Drum Mixer in Genos? Answer: Real Time control no. Only through Style Creator.
Question: So, when I'm playing in a live if it bothers me, for example the Kick, I can't turn it down while I'm playing? Answer: No.
Question: Is there a Drum Mixer at the Event? Answer: Yes. There is a separate Drum Mixer switch where we have Real Time control over: Volume, Reverb, Pan, Pitch, Velocity Compressor.
Question: So, when I'm playing live, if I'm bothered by eg the Kick, Snare, can I turn it down or raise it while I'm playing? Answer: Yes, and we can have Real Time control of each Variation completely different without affecting the mix balance of the Style in the slightest.

6. Question: If in Genos in a Live we want to play Full Pianist sound, is it possible? If so, how?
Answer: It is done if we do the following:
A) Disable the ACMP switch.
B) Deactivating the LEFT HOLD switch
C) Deactivating the LEFT switch.
Question: If we want to play Full Pianist sound at the Event in a Live, is it possible? If so, how?
Answer: It is done if we press the switch: PIANIST.

7. Question: If in Genos in a Live we want to play Manual Bass in the left hand, is it possible?
Answer: No. Or at least not in a direct way.
Question: If at the Event in a Live we want to play Manual Bass in the left hand, is it possible?
Answer: Yes, directly by simply pressing the MANUAL BASS switch. And not only that, but we can select normal chords, but the moment we want a Manual Bass to be activated (without affecting the chords) simply by having previously selected the AUTOMANUAL mode (from the screen).

8. Question: How many Voice sections (in our right hand) does the Yamaha Genos have?
Answer: A section where we can have up to three UPPER VOICES (RIGHT 1, RIGHT 2, RIGHT 3).
Question: How many LOWER (LEFT) VOICES can we have in our left hand? Answer: A Left Voice.
Question: How many Voice parts (in our right hand) does the Event have?
Answer: Two separate Voice sections where we can have up to three UPPER VOICEs each section (although here there is a somewhat different structure, but the explanation is not here).
Question: How many LOWER (LEFT) VOICES can we have in the Event in our left hand? Answer: Three different Left (LOWER) Voices with a separate Slider each.

9. Question: Are there ONE TOUCH SETTING switches on the Yamaha Genos? Answer: Yes, and I think they are also in a better position than any other Arranger.
Question: Are there ONE TOUCH SETTING switches in the Event? Answer: No. This feature is only available from the screen. It has two different modes though here I have to say that I like Genos' mode much better.

10.
Question: If in Genos we want to have direct access to a Live some of our favorite User or Preset Styles or Voices is it possible? Answer: Yes, it is possible if we save them in Favorites. Question: In Favorites we have the possibility to have Voices or Styles per category (Piano, Strings, Organ - Pop, Rock, Latin etc.). Answer: No. Question: Is there any other alternative way? Answer: Yes, there are two ways: A) By creating user folders where we will place the sounds or styles by category and of course the selection is made exclusively from the screen.
B) Via Registration but when we are constantly forced to change Registration Bank in a Live, then things get very complicated, and it is far from direct.
Question: If at the Event we want to have direct access to a Live some of our favorite User or Preset Styles or Voices, is it possible? Answer: Yes, we just store them in the appropriate User folder, and of course in both cases the selection can also be made from the switches. Question: Is there any other alternative way? Answer: Yes, through Performance. We select any of the seven immediately available banks and copy what we want to each one.
For example, in Performance Bank 3 I can have all my favorite Styles, (Preset or User), while in Performance Bank 4 I can have all my favorite Voices (Preset or User).



And finally, some quick questions and answers.
1) Is there a switch for DRAWBAR ORGAN on Genos?
No.
Is there a switch for DRAWBAR ORGAN in Event?
Yes. And independent switch and Slider and works Real Time in parallel or separately with the two sections of Voices.
2) Is there a DRUMS KIT switch on the Genos?
No, the Drum kit selection is made exclusively from the screen, after first deactivating the switches: ACMP, LEFT HOLD, LEFT
Is there a DRUMS KIT switch in Event?
Yes. You press the switch and directly the Drum Kit is available on the entire keyboard.
3) Is there an independent SPLIT switch on the Genos?
No. The settings are made exclusively through the screen and are not particularly clear.
Is there an independent SPLIT switch in Event?
Yes. We simply press and hold the Split switch and then the current range appears on the screen (e.g. C2), so we just press any note on the keyboard, so the screen automatically shows us which note we have selected, so we have immediately changed the range relationship between the right and left-handed.
4) Is there a DIRECT ACCESS switch on Genos?
Yes. It's one of the smartest implementations I've come across in recent years.
Is there a DIRECT ACCESS switch in the Event?
No. Unfortunately, no.
But I must stop somewhere here.
I must have tired you, but there are a few things that need to be cleared up.
I too believe there is no (best arranger keyboard), but there is (best arranger keyboard for me).
As you may have noticed all I have done is simply refer to true facts and nothing else.
Also, I'll say it again: Event doesn't only have Audio styles, it also has many Midi Styles which actually play very well.
Of course, the focus has been on Audio Styles, but at the same time it has all those tools that are required, and certainly much more options than even all the Yamaha Arrangers when it comes to Midi Styles production. I typically mention the production of separate Maj, Min versions in Intro, Ending, Variation either directly on the instrument or through some daw using Marker which is almost impossible on any Yamaha.
Finally, I have to say the following:
The Yamaha Genos is my first (professional) Yamaha Arranger I've ever owned. I have worked (live) with models from all companies: Korg i5, i30, Pa80, Pa1x, Pa800, Pa3x, Roland E-35, EA7, G-70, Ketron SD1, Audya.
I never said Genos is a bad instrument.
If it was, I would just sell it and not play live with it yet. It's an AWESOME Arranger, but what I've found is this:
As a Stage Player which is my job, I find that if we haven't prepared our Genos in advance, to an absolute extent, and if we haven't foreseen even the last detail for a live, then it is very difficult in live conditions and also very unwieldy when you have to switch frequently in a demanding schedule. Why.
Because contrary to what you said, many things are missing which would help us in the immediacy of a Live.
I understood that I must have saved my entire program in Registration and Playlist because otherwise it is particularly difficult to access (real time) in Live conditions.
I know many of you may disagree with me. But look at what I wrote to you and those of you whose main job is music (Stage Player) then consider whether what I say corresponds to reality or not.
I apologize for my huge post and possibly for my bad English.
Thank you!
« Last Edit: March 09, 2023, 09:15:26 AM by Sokratis1974 »
 
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Offline ton37

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #964 on: March 09, 2023, 08:25:01 AM »
Dear @Sokratis: It is not easy to discuss another brand on a Yamaha forum. But the way you do that deserves respect. As always as independent as possible and based on facts. Thank you for your detailed explanation.
My best regards,
Ton
 
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Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #965 on: March 09, 2023, 09:52:20 AM »
Hi Guys :

Thanks to Sokratis' great and detailed feedback, it is hard to deny the Event seems to be a great high end arranger, do you agree ?
Probably a very challenging competitor for Korg's PA5X and Yamaha's Genos successor, right ?

As soon as the Event is available in the music shops ( expected stock April 2023 ? ), my dealer will invite me.
It is absolutely my serious intention to test the Event thoroughly.
The more I know about the Event the more excited I am.
But again ... I am going to miss multipads ...

I am supposed to replace my Tyros4 by the end of this year, early 2024 but it is not easy for me to say goodbye to my beloved Tyros4. I am still in doubt.
A great arranger to create my backing tracks though.

Sorry, but I am an old fashioned musician : generally speaking, all my music instruments are meant to keep as long as possible, despite all the new software and technical improvements.
E.g. my left handed guitars are retained for life.   
On the other hand, my apartment is too small to add another arranger. I have to sell my Ty4 if I really want to replace it.  :P 

BTW, I really admire and appreciate Sokratis' endless patience to take time to answer all our questions and to respond respectfully and friendly to our criticism.


Best regards, JH
« Last Edit: March 09, 2023, 10:27:23 AM by Jeff Hollande »
 
The following users thanked this post: Tommy 73, Sokratis1974

Offline billtracy

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #966 on: March 09, 2023, 03:40:03 PM »
So, we're going to play a question and answer game and I'm just going to put in real facts.

Good writeup thanks.
Current: Korg PA900/JBL 308P/Focusrite Clarett 2Pre/Band in a Box/Reaper/EZdrummer 3. Previously Owned: Yamaha PSR-740/Yamaha PSR-1100/Yamaha PSR-S750.
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #967 on: March 10, 2023, 10:13:24 AM »

Hi :

Apparently some European dealers ( in Germany e.g. ) received a showroom Event arranger.
It would be interesting to know the endusers' first impressions, IMO.  :)

My dealer ( The Netherlands ) cannot confirm if he will receive his first Event shipment in April 2023.
Nothing has been ( officially ) announced by Ketron yet, he said. 

Regards, JH
 


Offline mikf

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #969 on: March 10, 2023, 03:07:17 PM »
Jeff
The difference in feel, sound of instruments like guitars, violins, saxes, are typically contained in the design and construction.  So people tend to keep several, even collect them. The difference in electronic keyboards is mainly advance and improvement in the technology. So like cars, we typically get rid of the old one when getting a new one.
Mike
 

Offline kiplis

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #970 on: March 14, 2023, 11:04:29 AM »
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #971 on: March 14, 2023, 11:17:58 AM »
Apparently the UK dealers are the first people who have received their Event's March 2023 shipment.

I am looking forward to reading the endusers' impressions. ;)
JH
« Last Edit: March 14, 2023, 11:19:22 AM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Offline tyrosrick

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #972 on: March 14, 2023, 12:23:08 PM »
The price at Bonners is about the same as a Genos, so pricewise what is the advantage of this over a Yamaha?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2023, 12:43:11 PM by tyrosrick »
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #973 on: March 14, 2023, 01:40:48 PM »
The price at Bonners is about the same as a Genos, so pricewise what is the advantage of this over a Yamaha?

I think that's something everyone should answer for himself. Genos, Event and Pa5X are all top of the line keyboards and there's no worse or better: it's what suits you better.

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #974 on: March 14, 2023, 01:56:52 PM »
The price at Bonners is about the same as a Genos, so pricewise what is the advantage of this over a Yamaha?

Most Yamaha customers ( 99% ? ) prefer to wait for the Genos' successor, I guess.
It might be available in November/December 2023, I hope.
I assume the new Yamaha high end arranger would cost : present Genos' price + approx. 10% ? 

I have no idea ... only time will tell.  ;)

JH
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #975 on: March 14, 2023, 02:08:44 PM »
I won't be able to assess the Event, due to lack of dealers in Canada. An online dealer is totally useless, unless he or she is willing to pay all expenses to send and return an Event to my home for assessment. That is highly unlikely. The PA5X will likely be in our stores.

No matter what, I'll wait to see what Yamaha brings to the table as an answer to these two fine machines :).
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #976 on: March 14, 2023, 04:13:15 PM »
Hi Lee :

You are a professional musician.
Making music is your daily income. 
The service ( 24/7 ) given by your dealer is very important for you.

Buying on line might be no option for you, IMHO.

Best regards, JH

« Last Edit: March 14, 2023, 04:30:43 PM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #977 on: March 14, 2023, 04:50:01 PM »
The price at Bonners is about the same as a Genos, so pricewise what is the advantage of this over a Yamaha?

I'm willing to bet not much.

But some people will be impressed by the demos and live sounding music, there is no denying.
In many living rooms / side rooms I bet these things gather dust despite which model people buy, even a Genos.

The lack of direct controls I think is a huge problem for the average performer who is going to be more consistent in his/her playing.

What you don't know won't hurt/harm you. If you haven't had a Genos or top of the range SX keyboard, it will be fine probably.

If you are experienced with Yamaha's using the direct style controls, registration buttons and like expansion options, the Event and even Pa5X is going to be a step back I would have thought.
At least this seemed to be my experience anyway.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2023, 04:51:58 PM by AndrewKeyz »
Without Music, Life would be a Mistake.

Check out my Genos recordings & performances: http://www.youtube.com/andrewkeyz
 

Offline Danny1972

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #978 on: March 16, 2023, 04:58:04 PM »
I have purchased an Event and it's arriving Monday :)

Offline kiplis

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #979 on: March 16, 2023, 05:30:18 PM »
Nice, I am considering the same...

-Kiplis-

Offline BogdanH

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #980 on: March 16, 2023, 06:58:28 PM »
I have purchased an Event and it's arriving Monday :)
Congrats Danny! So far I'm quite impressed by Event and I really hope it won't disappoint you  :)

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #981 on: March 16, 2023, 06:59:53 PM »
Hey Danny :

CONGRATULATIONS with your New Event.  :)

I would be very happy and grateful if you let this Forum know, in a couple of weeks e.g., what your first impressions are. ;)
Thank you in advance and ... enjoy your new arranger !

JH

 

Offline Danny1972

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #982 on: March 16, 2023, 07:25:52 PM »
Thank you Guys, appreciate the warm comments :)

Yes of course I will give feedback on the keyboard. I will stress that this is not replacing my Genos or any of the other current TOTL's that I have although I will offload some of my older keyboards to make up for it.

I think the fact that Bonners are stocking it was what tipped it in it's favour because I initially had no intention of getting one as traditionally the Ketron's have always been hard to get hold of in the UK, eg, when I bought the SD7 and SD60 I had to wait many weeks before it arrived in the UK from Italy as the only way to get one was from the Ketron UK distributor. So its refreshing that I can order a Ketron to arrive a couple of days later, that's more like it! I think it would pair up very well with the Genos.



 


Offline Danny1972

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #983 on: March 16, 2023, 11:41:15 PM »

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #984 on: March 17, 2023, 12:57:17 AM »
Congratulations Danny I’m sure you’ll love it
Best wishes
Rikki
Korg PA5X 88 note
SX 900
Band in a Box 2022
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #985 on: March 17, 2023, 06:28:24 AM »
Thank you Guys, appreciate the warm comments :)

Yes of course I will give feedback on the keyboard. I will stress that this is not replacing my Genos or any of the other current TOTL's that I have although I will offload some of my older keyboards to make up for it.

I think the fact that Bonners are stocking it was what tipped it in it's favour because I initially had no intention of getting one as traditionally the Ketron's have always been hard to get hold of in the UK, eg, when I bought the SD7 and SD60 I had to wait many weeks before it arrived in the UK from Italy as the only way to get one was from the Ketron UK distributor. So its refreshing that I can order a Ketron to arrive a couple of days later, that's more like it! I think it would pair up very well with the Genos.
My congratulations Danny. If you need any help, don't hesitate to contact me.

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #986 on: March 17, 2023, 08:20:29 AM »
Dear Sokratis :

Herewith I would like to thank you for your kind intention to help ALL people who are going to buy an Event.
That is absolutely wonderful and very encouraging for all new owners.

IMHO It might be a very good idea to start a seperate, new Forum : EVENT SUPPORT.


Take care, JH
 
The following users thanked this post: Mark

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #987 on: March 17, 2023, 09:02:47 AM »
Dear Sokratis :

Herewith I would like to thank you for your kind intention to help ALL people who are going to buy an Event.
That is absolutely wonderful and very encouraging for all new owners.

IMHO It might be a very good idea to start a seperate, new Forum : EVENT SUPPORT.


Take care, JH
Thank you so much Jeff. I find it difficult to create a new forum for many reasons. The main reason is that it requires too much time which my professional and personal obligations do not allow.
However, I am actively involved in two Ketron groups on Facebook and mainly in this group https://www.facebook.com/groups/KetronSD90 the admins have designated me as (Group Expert).

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #988 on: March 17, 2023, 06:29:41 PM »
Hey Sokratis :

Thanks for your feedback and the facebook link.
Very good news for all new Event customers, I guess. :)

Best regards, JH








keynote

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #989 on: March 17, 2023, 11:08:57 PM »
I have purchased an Event and it's arriving Monday :)

Congratulations, Danny. You must have purchased the one and only Ketron Event in the entire U.K. I looked on the Bonners Music website, and it currently says they are awaiting stock. In fact, everywhere you look all over the internet, it says basically the same thing. Ketron America doesn't even sell Ketron products through its website and doesn't even list the Event except for a small blurb on the main page. Frank in Connecticut, USA @ AudioProCT https://audioproct.com is a Ketron dealer, but he only has 1 reserve spot left, so apparently he will get a few in stock but not until around April 15-21. Also, Ketron America lists a few dealer affiliations, including Kaye's Music Scene in Reseda (LA), CA. Unfortunately, Mr. Kaye closed up his store back in 2021 yet Ketron USA still lists it as a dealer affiliate. Talk about falling through the cracks.  ??? Even other dealer affiliations in other states in the US don't sell Ketron products that I'm aware of, but they will supposedly service them? You need to be able to purchase the Event before you can have it serviced. Business 101. 💡

Anyway, let us know how you like your Event once you get it. Particularly the reports about the User Interface that supposedly lacks important navigational features and arranger functions that aren't accessible except through menu deep-diving, plus the absence of a physical button to turn on accompaniment which should be a no-brainer but is missing on the Event. PS: I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but if the 'problems' have easy workarounds or are solvable through an OS update, I might be interested in the Event again as a viable alternative.

All the best, Mike
« Last Edit: March 17, 2023, 11:12:18 PM by keynote »
 

Offline usaraiya

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #990 on: March 18, 2023, 12:54:22 AM »
Mike,

I got my EVENT from AJ last week. I eagerly awaited its arrival as the demos were fabulous, and the riffs that followed the chords were intriguing.
Alas, my fascination was short-lived. I was disappointed, so I sent it back today and got stuck with a 20% restocking fee.

There are no multi-pads while Genos & PA5X have 4. The factory styles & sounds are much less than the other 2 KBs. The riffs that follow the chords are in very few styles, they are recorded in the styles, like the Sax & Harmonica in 2 different styles I found.
Although you could save 4096 registration in the machine, accessing them is a major problem; data wheel browsing, selection by a number, or scrolling through pages were the cumbersome options.

There are two main voices are selectable easily by buttons; other voices are there, but selecting them is not quick.
There are three intros & 4 endings, and breaks; selecting them on the fly could be done only through the touch screen by selecting the Intro/Ending button, which brings up the screen buttons that has to be kept on screen for it to be used.

The real voices, real bass, and real everything are fabulous; nowhere else have I found this feature.
The learning curve to master the touch screen functions is likely to be not short, as there are hundreds of functions and customizations available, but I cannot see them being done on stage, live or even in a studio unless one spends enough time to program your set completely in the studio first.
 
So, please don't take my word for it as I am a hobbyist, and a professional review would really be valuable & helpful from a stage artist.
It appeared very complex for someone like me who did not want to spend time diving deep into the machine, but would like to enjoy playing it quickly.
Hopefully, the upcoming Yamaha flagship arranger would do the trick most adequately, and I will be waiting for it with bated breath.
The EVENT would be the ultimate KB for specific musicians, but not for me. Again, it boils down to what works for you!

Uday
 :)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2023, 01:15:22 PM by usaraiya »
 
The following users thanked this post: soundphase

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #991 on: March 18, 2023, 03:40:32 AM »
Hi Uday, so did you end up selling your PA5x? Sorry to hear Event didn’t work out for you.  No doubt it suits some people better than it does others. The operating system is totally different to Korg and Yamaha.
Best wishes
Rikki
Korg PA5X 88 note
SX 900
Band in a Box 2022
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #992 on: March 18, 2023, 09:26:03 AM »
Hey Friends :

IMHO !

If one is used to have a Yamaha, a Korg or a Ketron high end arranger keyboard ( for many years ! ) it is not easy, even hard to go for another brand.
We all know the reasons why.

If one is tempted to buy another brand, it might be partially based on dissatisfaction and/or emotional preferences / impulses.

In this case, it might be a lot better to wait for the new Yamaha high end arranger, compare the advantages and disadvantages of all 3 new arrangers and then make a final, wise decision. 

Adding an other arranger is a complete different approach / story.

Best wishes, JH
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #993 on: March 18, 2023, 09:31:03 AM »
Pretty hefty having to part with a 20% restocking fee after just a week.

This is about how much I lost against my Pa5X after 9 months.
Without Music, Life would be a Mistake.

Check out my Genos recordings & performances: http://www.youtube.com/andrewkeyz
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #994 on: March 18, 2023, 12:10:21 PM »
Mike,

I got my EVENT from AJ last week. I eagerly awaited its arrival as the demos were fabulous, and the riffs that followed the chords were intriguing.
Alas, my fascination was short-lived. I was disappointed, so I sent it back today and got stuck with a 20% restocking fee.

There are no multi-pads while Genos & PA5X have 4. The factory styles & sounds are much less than the other 2 KBs. The riffs that follow the chords are in very few styles, they are recorded in the styles, like the Sax & Harmonica in 2 different styles I found.
Although you could save 4096 registration in the machine, accessing them is a major problem; data wheel browsing, selection by a number, or scrolling through pages were the cumbersome options.

There are two main voices are selectable easily by buttons; other voices are there, but selecting them is not quick.
There are three intros & 4 endings, and breaks; selecting them on the fly could be done only through the touch screen by selecting the Intro/Ending button, which brings up the screen buttons that has to be kept on screen for it to be used.

The real voices, real bass, and real everything are fabulous; nowhere else have I found this feature.
The learning curve to master the touch screen functions is likely to be not short, as there are hundreds of functions and customizations available, but I cannot see them being done on stage, live or even in a studio unless one spends enough time to program your set completely in the studio first.
 
So, please don't take my word for it as I am a hobbyist, and a professional review would really be valuable & helpful from stage artist.
It appeared very complex for someone like me who did not want to spend time diving deep into the machine, but would like to enjoy playing it quickly.
Hopefully, the upcoming Yamaha flagship arranger would do the trick most adequately, and I will be waiting for it with bated breath.
The EVENT would be the ultimate KB for specific musicians, but not for me. Again, it boils down to what works for you!

Uday
 :)
I would like to hear "real voices" in solo mode.
Quite all Event demos I hear extensively use styles (good styles), and it's difficult to judge solo voices quality.
Please, if it's possible for you to record something. Thank you very much in advance.
Regards
Soundphase
Soundphase
 

Offline usaraiya

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #995 on: March 18, 2023, 01:10:31 PM »
@Rikki,

Yes, I did keep the PA5X and am loving it even more now. The monthly webinars from Korg UK(Adam & Luke), and the cost free soundpacks/styles from Korg UK are fantastic( 2 so far).

@Soundphase,

Sorry, I already sent the Event back yesterday, so I cannot record the sounds for you.

Uday
 :)

 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #996 on: March 18, 2023, 02:36:47 PM »
Hi Uday :

I feel very sorry to hear your brand new Event's experience.  :'(
It must have been a hard lesson to you and to all of us, IMO.

All the best, JH









 

keynote

  • Guest
Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #997 on: March 18, 2023, 04:45:26 PM »
Thank you for your valuable input, Uday. As we all know, the Event is not cheap. But a staggering 20% restocking fee is outrageous, especially since you only had it a few days, so it was still brand spanking new basically. I imagine AJ probably gets a big chunk of the restocking fee, so he's ecstatic, needless to say. But the real bummer, AJ will turn around and sell it as new if there are no visible marks of any kind. I mentioned in a previous post about Frank from AudioProCT in Connecticut, USA. His price for the Event is $5,299 and of course you have like an 8.5% sales tax in Connecticut, so you end up with a total of $5,749, and he might charge shipping which could be another $200 or so. Back when the Genos was first released, Frank quoted me a price of $4,200 for the Genos shipped to my door. Boy, how times have changed. :-\ Now even Yamaha is pretty much getting $6,000 for the Genos at most if not all online retail stores. And I imagine the Genos2 will take that up a notch or two when it's finally released. Although, Yamaha usually has an introductory offer on their new keyboard product releases, and we can only hope that's true for the Genos2. That's another reason I like to buy at a brick & mortar store like Guitar Center, where I can get a full refund if things don't work out. In conclusion, no Event for me. 👍 Another thing I'm noticing about the Event is even though the audio sampled voices i.e. Bass, Guitar, Drums are par excellence, the actual midi triggered voices leave something to be desired the more I hear the Event demos. For instance, the Event Tenor Sax is nothing to write home about, for one. Maybe there is more than one, but the one I heard sounded weak and thin. And those midi-triggered voices/patches don't sit well in the mix when playing along with the audio styles. The audio sampled voices drone out the other voices, so I suspect a lot of tweaking would probably be necessary to get them to sound right with the audio styles. To each his own. Some people might go gaga over the Event, and more power to them. Some keyboardists don't mind deep menu-diving, and if that's the case, the Event won't disappoint.  ;D

All the best, Mike
« Last Edit: March 18, 2023, 04:51:50 PM by keynote »
 

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #998 on: March 18, 2023, 10:06:51 PM »
@Rikki,

Yes, I did keep the PA5X and am loving it even more now. The monthly webinars from Korg UK(Adam & Luke), and the cost free soundpacks/styles from Korg UK are fantastic( 2 so far).


Uday
 :)

Hi Uday, thought for an awful moment you’d sold it to buy the Event 😀. Yes , another webinar, missed it again, at least I can watch the replay, plus we’re slowly getting closer to the update 😀 .I must check into those soundpacks, forgot all about it. Obviously they’re available to rest of the world, not just the UK as you’re obviously in the USA.

So sorry it ended such an expensive exercise for you with the Ketron, at least you tried it and now you know it’s not for you.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2023, 01:58:42 AM by rikkisbears »
Best wishes
Rikki
Korg PA5X 88 note
SX 900
Band in a Box 2022
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: New TOTL Arranger from Ketron
« Reply #999 on: March 21, 2023, 01:39:39 AM »
Stick with Genos, it is quality and as Jeff says wait for it's successor.
Dig deep into the Genos effects and is surprising what you get
This has to be the year :)
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox