Author Topic: CHORD LOOPER .CLD files: add dedicated board to share common chord progressions  (Read 728 times)

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Offline nonchai

Now that the CHORD LOOPER functionality is making its way to many keyboards - Genos, PSR-SX and CVP lines,  wouldn't it be helpful if there was a board here dedicated just for users to share their .CLD and .CLB. files.

This could really be helpful for example for common jazz standards - such as in the Real Book. and for pop songs - for practice purposes.  Clearly gazillions of MIDI files exist for jazz Standards etc- but having the changes in .CLD form means we can have try out the progression over different styles.

And chord progressions are non copyright so it would be fine to just have some repository in the forum where such sets of .CLD
files could be reference,

Offline EileenL

I can't really see  the point of this as most use chord looper to record there chords for specific songs they are playing. They can then play two handed across the top or have a free hand for using Joy stick or changing reg etc.

Offline mikf

Donít think he is thinking of using it for composing. Just a way of playing those songs without having to play the lh chords yourself. He does mention practicing, but surely practicing should involve learning to play it all yourself?
I honestly donít know why people buy a musical instrument then dream up ways where they donít really have to play it properly to make music. The fun and satisfaction is surely that you do it yourself.
Mike

Offline EileenL

I agree Mike,
 There is only one way to go and that is to learn how to play your own chords.
  This member is putting this request all over the forum and the moderators should pick up on it and remove.

Offline DerekA

I think this is something that the new Korg PA5X has built in, which has probably prompted the idea.

I actually think it's not a bad idea; I agree it would only take a matter of minutes to do it for yourself but can see the attraction of having a pile of ready-made song chord progressions available, especially if they were broken down into intro / verse / chorus / bridge / ending chunks
Genos
 
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Offline pjd

Once upon a time, Yamaha sequencers (QY70 and QY100) had built-in chord templates covering many common chord progressions. (Please see the QY100 Data List for details.)

The number of pop songs based upon these common progressions is amazing. How many tunes are based on the first pattern (below) alone?!

Kind of surprised that Yamaha didn't mine their own work and provide us with templates for the Chord Looper.

All the best -- pj


Here is a taste of the QY100:

01 POPS-M01                            C | Am | Dm | G7 |
02 POPS*M01 (Double time feel)         C/Am | Dm/G7 | C/Am | Dm/G7 |
03 POPS-M02                            C | F | C | G7 |
04 POPS-m02 (Double time feel) (Minor) Cm | Fm | Cm | G7 |
05 POPS*M02 (Double time feel)         C/F | C/G7 | C/F | C/G7 |
06 POPS*m02 (Minor) (Double time)      Cm/Fm | Cm/G7 | Cm/Fm | Cm/G7 |
07 POPS-M03                            C | Em | F | G7 |
08 POPS*M03 (Double time feel)         C/Em | F/G7 | C/Em | F/G7 |
09 POPS-M04                            C | Am | F | G | Em | Am | Dm | G7 |
10 POPS*M04 (Double time feel)         C/Am | F/G | Em/Am | Dm/G7 |
11 POPS-M05 Starts with 4th            F | Em | Dm | C |
12 POPS*M05 Starts w/4th (Double time) F/Em | Dm/C | F/Em | Dm/C |
13 POPS-M06 Starts w/minor 6th         Am | D | G7 | C |
14 POPS*M06 Starts w/minor 6th (Double time) Am/D | G7/C | Am/D | G7/C |
15 POPS-m07 Progresses in 4ths         Cm | Fm | Bb | Eb | Ab | Dm7(b5) | G | G7 |
16 POPS*m07 Progresses in 4ths (Double time) Cm/Fm | Bb/Eb | Ab/Dm7(b5) | G/G7 |
17 POPS-M08 J-Techno                   C | Ab | Bb | G7 |
18 POPS*M08 J-Techno (Double time)     C/Ab | Bb/G7 | C/Ab | Bb/G7 |
19 POPS-M09                            C | C | Am | Am | F | G | C | G7 |
20 POPS*M09 (Double time)              C | Am | F/G | C/G7 |
21 POPS-M10                            C | G | Am | F | C | G | F | C |
22 POPS*M10 (Double time)              C/G | Am/F | C/G | F/C |
23 POPS-M11                            C | Dm | Em | F |
24 POPS*M11 (Double time)              C/Dm | Em/F | C/Dm | Em/F |


Offline nonchai

Ah QY !   Nostalgia time.

My first arranger (sold now ) was the QY700 :)
 

Offline nonchai

I can't really see  the point of this as most use chord looper to record there chords for specific songs they are playing. They can then play two handed across the top or have a free hand for using Joy stick or changing reg etc.


The point is - that unlike say pure MIDI jazz backing tracks- being able to just quickly load say Giant Steps or Stella By Starlight into the CL - one can the have a holy good try out of different styles for the progression.

For example one day I might want to use a Giant Steps .CLD with a fast bebop type style and on another day - try it with a slow Bossa style.  Or something Cuban :)


The other reason is that I might. in fact WILL want to be playing with BOTH hands freely - so its better to have the changes already in the CL.

Lastly - I make mistakes.  And one current drawback of the CL - very annoying - is that one cannot edit the progression.   Strange because even on my old QY700 one could do that.
 

Offline pjd

Ah QY !   Nostalgia time.

My first arranger (sold now ) was the QY700 :)

Still got my QY70. Best. Yamaha. Sequencer. Ever.  :D 8)

-- pj
 

Offline nonchai

Donít think he is thinking of using it for composing. Just a way of playing those songs without having to play the lh chords yourself. He does mention practicing, but surely practicing should involve learning to play it all yourself?

Because sometimes one wants to use the "backing band" in the arranger -  but maybe with parts removed. So piano jazz student or hobbyist can practice being the pianist in a trio - ie rhythm section but with the piano in a style muted - So I do all piano work - and the rest is bass, drums percussion - and maybe strings or something..

that leaves me free to use the left hand however I want - whereas in normal usage I'd just be playing fingered chords or hoping the AI works when in full keyboard range.

Believe me if I didnt have use cases for this I wouldn't have asked.

Here's another use case- - my main instrument is actually guitar - so at times I would just want to quickly fire up chord loops to practice or jam to. I could have 8 different progressions for the typical stuff a jazz person would want to practice on like Realbook material.

for example:

1 Stella By Starlight
2 Giant Steps
3 Rhythm changes
4 Jazz blues (major)
5 Jazz blues (minor)
6 Triste (Jobim - typically a Bossa )
7 Days Of Wine And Roses
8 Caravan

or whatever standards progressions one likes.

People in jazz typically use Band In A Box for this kind of stuff - but like many - its really cool to not have to touch a computer at all - and to be able to call up progressions like this so easily as on my PSR SX 900.

Sure - using left hand for chord control is what 90 percent of arranger users might be doing - thats what theyre designed for. But these days the use cases are creeping more and more towards new ones- be it with a DAW for composition/songwriting - or like my examples - just to quickly have a backing part going while one noodles freely - whether with both hands on a Joanna or both hands .... on an axe.


« Last Edit: July 15, 2022, 01:12:47 AM by nonchai »
 

Offline pjd

Thanks for the play list! Can't call myself a jazzer, but it motivated me to learn more about the Coltrane changes. Nice changes and, yeah, what a bear to improvise over at speed!

It's not a library, but I did find another way to create a Chord Looper progression:  http://sandsoftwaresound.net/step-edit-chord-looper/

There may be yet another solution. I have experimental Java code that translates a ChordPro lead sheet into a MIDI file compatible with the Yamaha arranger engine. I don't think the code currently produces the Yamaha MIDI meta events that are required by Chord Looper. So, I'm thinking: Enter the progression in Chord Pro text format, translate to MIDI with the necessary events, and rename the MID extension to CLD. Import and repeat.

I need to finish that project...  ::) :o

All the best -- pj
 
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Offline chesterkins

Actually it can be a good idea when you are trying to compose a new song
It allows you to concentrate on the melody
Yes you can say if you can play the instrument properly you should both
but then we are not all the same
Would not condemn the idea

Offline dinapoli

Why not use a few different midi file of the same song?

I use the keyboard to back up my singing.  The fun is trying to find the chords of a song, changing the feel of a song.

If I was a song writer I would like to come up with something totally new and different!
 

Offline mikf

I have never used a chord looper but thought the whole point was that it is easy to put in the chords yourself. You basically just press a button, play the song and the chord loop is captured. In fact simple enough that it was originally meant to allow you to press the button while playing  the song live, and use the chord looper while you improvise a break. All while playing live.
So what is the big deal about having pre made chord loops exchanged if its that easy?? And then you are stuck with someone else's chord changes that you may not like.
Mike
 

Offline tbaroghel

I for one support fully the idea of a place to exchange chord loop files. Chord looper is a very useful addition to the PSR/Genos in my opinion, when you got so much thngs to achieve with your left hand!
Yes, sometimes it is easy to enter your loops 'live' ... and sometimes it is not: that's when you wish someone who had done it would share  with you. I would gladly contribute to such a place.

I appreciate that for some people, using Chord Looper is 'faking' ; I wish there would be no judgement here, and well, to each his/her own: you could also say that an arranger is faking an orchestra, or that a Rhode EP is faking a piano ...

The beauty of modern arrangers is that everyone finds what they need in it, and I am among those who enjoy the chord looper.

Thierry
Humbly returning to arrangers after many years, with a PSR-SX900
 

Offline ton37

I agree with you @tbaroghel. Just use the features of the keyboard. No cause for false shame. In fact, the entire digital OS and sound chip of the keyboard is 110% fake, as far as imitating acoustic musical instruments. In addition, if you indicate that, for example, the use of the Chordlooper is fake, then one does not realize that the use of styles (such as variations, intros and endings, pads, midi etc.) is in fact just as fake as using the other functions of the keyboard (because what is the meaning of 'arranger'??). That beautiful accompaniment is really not played by the player him/herself, but by the instrument itself! So, happy faking .. ;)
My best regards,
Ton
---------------------------
Former KB:Technics Sx-Kn7000, Tyros 5/76, Genos, S770, S975.
 

Offline Michael Trigoboff

Quote from: Mike
I have never used a chord looper but thought the whole point was that it is easy to put in the chords yourself. You basically just press a button, play the song and the chord loop is captured. In fact simple enough that it was originally meant to allow you to press the button while playing  the song live, and use the chord looper while you improvise a break. All while playing live.
So what is the big deal about having pre made chord loops exchanged if its that easy?? And then you are stuck with someone else's chord changes that you may not like.

I have been creating Chord Looper progressions for a while now. I start by playing them into a Cubase chord track. This allows me to see in detail what I played.

Thereís a lot to clean up! Maybe all the keys of a chord didnít go down at exactly the same time, leading to transitory erroneous chords. Maybe my timing was a little bit off. Maybe I want to change which chord it is in a particular bar. Maybe I want a different inversion for a chord. I can fix all of that very easily in Cubase.

Once the chord track is all cleaned up, itís very easy to render the chord track into MIDI, and play the MIDI into the Chord Looper. The resulting .CLD file requires a little bit of cleanup using MixMaster to make it loop properly.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2022, 06:04:00 PM by Michael Trigoboff »
retired software engineer and Computer Science instructor
Grateful Deadhead

"He had decided to live forever or die in the attempt."
-- Joseph Heller, Catch-22
 

Offline nonchai

Donít think he is thinking of using it for composing. Just a way of playing those songs without having to play the lh chords yourself. He does mention practicing, but surely practicing should involve learning to play it all yourself?
I honestly donít know why people buy a musical instrument then dream up ways where they donít really have to play it properly to make music. The fun and satisfaction is surely that you do it yourself.
Mike

Actually wrong. this feature us useful for all manner of use cases and one for me is composing - but unfortunately the Chord Looper as it stands is just too limited.

Its a fun feature. Use it all the time - to try out progression ideas improvised and entered on the fly. its very liberating and inspiring - particularly for orchestral styles in my case. 

 

Offline nonchai

Once upon a time, Yamaha sequencers (QY70 and QY100) had built-in chord templates covering many common chord progressions. (Please see the QY100 Data List for details.)

The number of pop songs based upon these common progressions is amazing. How many tunes are based on the first pattern (below) alone?!

Kind of surprised that Yamaha didn't mine their own work and provide us with templates for the Chord Looper.

All the best -- pj


Here is a taste of the QY100:

01 POPS-M01                            C | Am | Dm | G7 |
02 POPS*M01 (Double time feel)         C/Am | Dm/G7 | C/Am | Dm/G7 |
03 POPS-M02                            C | F | C | G7 |
04 POPS-m02 (Double time feel) (Minor) Cm | Fm | Cm | G7 |
05 POPS*M02 (Double time feel)         C/F | C/G7 | C/F | C/G7 |
06 POPS*m02 (Minor) (Double time)      Cm/Fm | Cm/G7 | Cm/Fm | Cm/G7 |
07 POPS-M03                            C | Em | F | G7 |
08 POPS*M03 (Double time feel)         C/Em | F/G7 | C/Em | F/G7 |
09 POPS-M04                            C | Am | F | G | Em | Am | Dm | G7 |
10 POPS*M04 (Double time feel)         C/Am | F/G | Em/Am | Dm/G7 |
11 POPS-M05 Starts with 4th            F | Em | Dm | C |
12 POPS*M05 Starts w/4th (Double time) F/Em | Dm/C | F/Em | Dm/C |
13 POPS-M06 Starts w/minor 6th         Am | D | G7 | C |
14 POPS*M06 Starts w/minor 6th (Double time) Am/D | G7/C | Am/D | G7/C |
15 POPS-m07 Progresses in 4ths         Cm | Fm | Bb | Eb | Ab | Dm7(b5) | G | G7 |
16 POPS*m07 Progresses in 4ths (Double time) Cm/Fm | Bb/Eb | Ab/Dm7(b5) | G/G7 |
17 POPS-M08 J-Techno                   C | Ab | Bb | G7 |
18 POPS*M08 J-Techno (Double time)     C/Ab | Bb/G7 | C/Ab | Bb/G7 |
19 POPS-M09                            C | C | Am | Am | F | G | C | G7 |
20 POPS*M09 (Double time)              C | Am | F/G | C/G7 |
21 POPS-M10                            C | G | Am | F | C | G | F | C |
22 POPS*M10 (Double time)              C/G | Am/F | C/G | F/C |
23 POPS-M11                            C | Dm | Em | F |
24 POPS*M11 (Double time)              C/Dm | Em/F | C/Dm | Em/F |


Speaking QY - I used to own a QY700 - which had the ability to record AND edit chord progressions. Lovely thing - and was the piece of hardware that first got me interested in hardware arrangers - as opposed to software arrangers - ie Band In A Box, which id been using for almost a decade up to then.