Author Topic: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!  (Read 57741 times)

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Offline countryking

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #150 on: July 17, 2022, 08:47:38 PM »
Hi Jeff,
I used to feel exactly the same about Technics and especially my KN7000.
I feel that my Genos is a good board but still has features which need addressing and Korg has dealt with those but I've never had a Korg.
Health problems mean that I won't be around to enjoy it if Yamaha don't move a bit quicker on dealing with these problems.
I think we all look for something a little different when we choose keyboards but what's right for us personally is the deal.
Nice weekend to you too which probably means keeping very cool

Hi Duffy,
While we can all enjoy making the comparisons between one keyboard and another - I have to say your comment about your health can put life into perspective and it was sad for me to read this. I sincerely wish you well and hope that you will be with us for all time to come. In the meantime enjoy all the days that is given to each of us and whatever gives us some enjoyment we should try and get it in abundance.
My best wishes to you and for you.
Jim
Tyros 5
 

Offline stephenm52

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #151 on: July 17, 2022, 09:23:38 PM »
I consider this Pa5X downloads one of the better ones.

Fascinating the way his left hand plays an added extension of his right hand.
Interesting technique.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voUmUAGoHqo

Graham, I found the same thing his left hand adds and interesting dimension to the playing.
GENOS, SX900, Clavinova CVP 307, Korg Pa4x.........

Steve's Genos Recordings
Steve's Gig Disks
 
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Offline mikf

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #152 on: July 17, 2022, 09:42:41 PM »
Graham , I actually saw this video earlier. He plays the arranger very well. I’m not sure about your description of extended rh. He just plays both hands, like a piano player would, using his lh to add accents and mini riffs, while still making sure he plays enough notes to allow chord recognition. I really like how he does that and started experimenting with it a bit. It’s interesting.
Mike
 
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Offline jwyvern

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #153 on: July 17, 2022, 10:50:51 PM »
He just plays both hands, like a piano player would, using his lh to add accents and mini riffs, while still making sure he plays enough notes to allow chord recognition.
Mike
It's also possible he could have been using a chord looper preset sequence to free up his LH for occasional excursions to demo that  feature.
John
« Last Edit: July 17, 2022, 10:53:53 PM by jwyvern »
 

Offline usaraiya

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #154 on: July 18, 2022, 01:26:24 AM »
I see that he plays a chord and then does his left-hand magic, until the following chord change; when he plays the new chord and leaves it, the accompaniment continues to play in the chord sequence until the following change, and he has time to play the riffs which he has mastered, in between the chord changes, in his unique style.
 :)
 

Offline mikf

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #155 on: July 18, 2022, 07:36:50 AM »
When set to AI type mode, which I assume exists on the Korg as well, the notes played in the rh also drive accompaniment. So this combined with some ‘quiet chord playing” in your lh between the little riffs can be enough to keep the accompaniment reasonably accurate. I experimented with this and it is possible but takes some practice.
Mike
 

Offline PierreSW

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #156 on: July 18, 2022, 07:45:49 AM »
Quote from: Jeff Hollande on 2022-07-15, 08:33:41
_________________________________________________ _______
Hi Guys :

BAD KORG NEWS ?
Watch following PA Korg video ...  I am shocked.
True or not true ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHIM9eIBmcQ

Best regards, JH
_________________________________________________ ____________

Here we see a video about what is missing in Korg's keyboard.
Wondering if it's not the same for Yamaha's keyboards when they're released?
Half-finished built programs, which must be upgraded to work properly.
There are still parts in the software that can be improved
Same with the hardware, it is already old when you start selling the keyboard,
for example. USB 2 instead of USB 3 which existed long before Genos came out.

// Pierre
YAMAHA Genos 2, YAMAHA MFC10, Bose L1 II-pa,Mixer T1 ToneMatch, ZUM STEEL.
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #157 on: July 18, 2022, 07:54:57 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uUu8SbS3hM&t=8s


Hey Ton :

In a previous article of this thread you talked about connecting a guitar, remember ?

As shown in the above video, it looks to be a nice 5X feature ... BUT ...
I wonder if it is possible to record and mix the guitar voice in the PA5X ?  ::)

This feature might only be applicable for live performances ?
If it is what I think it is then I would rather call it an extra gadget than a pro application, IMHO.

Best regards, JH
« Last Edit: July 18, 2022, 08:19:06 AM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Offline Duffy

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #158 on: July 18, 2022, 09:59:28 AM »
I consider this Pa5X downloads one of the better ones.

Fascinating the way his left hand plays an added extension of his right hand.
Interesting technique.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voUmUAGoHqo

Yes, Alois has a  great left hand talent.  He should record them all as midi files and sell them.
It would be nice to have his left hand playing whilst we played the melody.
I used to listen to him playing the Genos a lot and always enjoyed his talent. He offers a lot of setting up tips too but, unfortunately, they are all in German (or something similar).
 
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Offline Duffy

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #159 on: July 18, 2022, 10:06:06 AM »
Leigh Wilbraham is always worth listening too as well.
Here he plays the PA5X and demonstrates some free PA4X styles which Korg give away free.
I love Korg's strings.

https://youtu.be/eqhY5a_Owkg

P.S.  Very sorry,  I have just realised that he's actually playing the PA4X in this video.
This shows me that the PA4X was quite impressive too and I just didn't know it.

« Last Edit: July 18, 2022, 10:32:00 AM by Duffy »
 
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Offline ton37

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #160 on: July 18, 2022, 10:32:29 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uUu8SbS3hM&t=8s


Hey Ton :

In a previous article of this thread you talked about connecting a guitar, remember ?

As shown in the above video, it looks to be a nice 5X feature ... BUT ...
I wonder if it is possible to record and mix the guitar voice in the PA5X ?  ::)

This feature might only be applicable for live performances ?
If it is what I think it is then I would rather call it an extra gadget than a pro application, IMHO.

Best regards, JH
Hi Jeff, here are some other resources.
Rimmers Music info: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xISc4x02A6Y
Korg info: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hORggX_apfs
 Based on what I see/read on the internet, Korg has integrated that well into the keyboard with its Pa5X. In my opinion it is more than a 'gadget'. Whether it is suitable for a 'Pro', I'm not sure. They have to say that themselves. For a house musician it seems like a wonderful addition. When I started to focus more on keyboards, I sold my guitar gear (except for 1 guitar ;-)). That involved many stomp boxes, effects pedals and amplifiers and many guitars. Now that I see this again, it itches again ;-)). The SX-900 also has guitar options, but compared to the PaX5 this is very limited. The Korg is way above that in terms of possibilities, so what kb has a gadget or when it is a feature??  Other than that, I have no value judgments about it. Everyone has to decide that for themselves. So say, get 2 pay 1... Very tempting....  ;)
« Last Edit: July 18, 2022, 10:34:31 AM by ton37 »
My best regards,
Ton
 

Offline terryB

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #161 on: July 18, 2022, 12:41:31 PM »
The guitar feature is a real great addition. This feature would be an attraction for me if I was into choosing a new keyboard from my genos. However I have to much invested in Yamaha's boards at present, so will see if they intend to go in this direction. It is possible to play guitar thro' the genos, but not in a dedicated way as is portrayed in the video.  8)
cheers Terry
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #162 on: July 18, 2022, 01:08:25 PM »
Thank you for the 2 other video links, Ton.
Very interesting !

You are absolutely right:  it is much more than a simple gadget.

BTW ... I like their new VH. The Yamaha VH2 needs an upgrade, IMHO  ;)

I have to admit the PA5X looks to be a nice arranger keyboard.
It might become a commercial success.

It will not be easy for Yamaha to beat the PA5X - as far as some features are concerned -.
When we talk about sound quality in general, I believe even the 5 year older Genos might be the winner.
Recently someone said here : "  owning both arrangers ( PA5X and Genos ) would be a dream ".

CONCLUSION
01. I am sure most of us prefer to wait for the Genos2 (2025 technology !!! )  before making any final buying decision, I guess. Yamaha do not wait too long, plse !
02. At my age - after 22 years of Yami experience - I am not in the mood to learn a new arranger OS.
03. What about my huge Yamaha software collection ?  It is a golden treasure !
04. Last but not least ... what about my dear Yamaha friends and our great software makers ( free of charge ! ) ? Many of them are like family !
 

Take care, JH

« Last Edit: July 18, 2022, 01:26:58 PM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Offline ton37

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #163 on: July 18, 2022, 02:14:18 PM »
Hi Jeff, you are right on a number of topics. Given my age (75+), I don't really allow myself all the time to wait. Yamaha does not communicate with their customers about what and when. So I just make my own plan. One consideration I'm leaning towards: I'll just buy the Pa5x (61). If something ever comes from Yamaha and that model would meet my needs even better (which I doubt at the moment, especially a 61 version) I'll just sell the Pa5x again. Well, I'm very eager to learn, so a new OS doesn't bother me. Yes, and the styles collection. Have thousands, but only use a fraction of them! I think that collecting styles is more 'greed' than being used! In addition, the Pa5x is very flexible to change styles. But I'll have to be patient until I can try one live. In any case, I always wait until it has been on the market for a few months and hopefully the biggest problems are gone. Then it is often better to estimate whether this Kb does what it promises ;-)
My best regards,
Ton
 
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Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #164 on: July 18, 2022, 03:59:32 PM »

Fascinating the way his left hand plays an added extension of his right hand.
Interesting technique.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voUmUAGoHqo
I asked the question on YT. And someone answered me that there is a feature on PA-5X allowing chords to be ONLY triggered when you play chord notes with a velocity level under a threshold.
That allows to use your left hand to play counterpoints (by playing with a velocity above this level) without chords changes are automatically triggered by the AI.

Sorry if my English is not perfect.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2022, 04:34:37 PM by soundphase »
 

Offline Graham UK

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #165 on: July 18, 2022, 04:53:36 PM »
ton37. Regarding Learning A New OS.
I have owned over the years Roland & Korg & Yamaha. I did not have any problem learning a different OS.
If you treat each of them as giving you the same required end results.

It's like driving from A to B, the Sat-Nav may give you 3 options but you still finish up at B, just via different roads.

As we get older its about keeping ones brain active...I'm 85.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2022, 05:28:04 PM by Graham UK »
DGX670
 
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Offline ton37

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #166 on: July 18, 2022, 05:11:59 PM »
Thank you for the encouraging words @Graham. Fortunately, the white and black keys are in the same place as the Yamaha  ;)
« Last Edit: July 19, 2022, 07:23:59 AM by ton37 »
My best regards,
Ton
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #167 on: July 18, 2022, 06:14:05 PM »
Hey Ton :

We can shake hands. I will be 75 at the end of October 2022. Time goes fast. We are both Dutch. :)

I remember the Tyros1 had been announced in 2001/2002 by Yamaha ; 6 months before the keyboard was finally available for sale in 2002. 
The Ty1 was so new then, modern, special, unique and beautiful. Everybody wanted to have a Tyros1. It was such a commercial success. WOW ! :D

Due to the actual presence of the Korg PA5X, I am hoping the introduction of the Genos2 will follow very soon. 
When ? 61 or/and 76 keys ?
Only Yamaha can answer these questions. Nobody else.

If you should decide to go for the PA5X, I wish you good luck and a lot of fun, Ton.

As I said before it looks to be a very nice keyboard and Korg is a reliable manufacturer.   

Best regards, JH
 





« Last Edit: July 18, 2022, 06:15:35 PM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Offline Duffy

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #168 on: July 18, 2022, 06:40:54 PM »
Hi Duffy,
While we can all enjoy making the comparisons between one keyboard and another - I have to say your comment about your health can put life into perspective and it was sad for me to read this. I sincerely wish you well and hope that you will be with us for all time to come. In the meantime enjoy all the days that is given to each of us and whatever gives us some enjoyment we should try and get it in abundance.
My best wishes to you and for you.
Jim

Hi Jim,
I'm sorry but I must have originally skipped past this post without seeing it because I have posted since then.
I just wanted to say thank you to you for kind and thoughtful words and for your good wishes.
I try to enjoy life as much as possible and my music is a very large part of that.
As I am too old to improve my playing skills any more, I rely on my boards sounding as good as they can be but there will soon be a time when it would be foolish to buy another.
I still love it all anyway and really enjoy the companionship of being on the forum.
Not as much fun as the hours I spent entertaining in pubs & clubs but it's a way of getting past the limitations of Covid.
Thanks again Jim. My very best wishes to you.
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #169 on: July 19, 2022, 08:25:09 AM »
Hi Guys :

It looks like the PA5X becomes more and more popular day by day.

I hope Yamaha will come with a PA5X answer very, very soon.
It would be wonderful to see and hear the Genos2 before the end of 2022 for delivery early 2023.

Wishful thinking ? Am I dreaming ?
I hope not !!!

Best wishes, JH


 

Offline Duffy

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #170 on: July 19, 2022, 02:17:31 PM »
I fully agree with you Jeff.  I saw an early promise in the PA5X and now, having seen much more of it in action, I consider it a top class board.
Korg have knocked so many nails on the head with this and I really do think that Yamaha don't have as much time as they thought to address this Genos challenger.
If it were not for the fact that I have never used the Korg O.S. I would probably have ordered one already as it fulfils so many of my personal wishes all in one go.
 

Offline ton37

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #171 on: July 19, 2022, 02:37:53 PM »
I'm considering that too @Duffy, but there are still far too many flaws in the OS of the new Korg. Have a look at the Korg forum. That is actually to be expected with such a new model/OS. Nowadays it is common for a (software) product to be brought onto the market that is not yet completely finished. At what rate and whether this will all be resolved is always the question. Yamaha is also guilty of this and updates/fixes often take a long time (if they come?). The Pa5x practically meets all my needs (and even more than that) so I'll look when I think the time is right to buy it. But that will probably be a few months away. And about another OS: for years I had all the Technics models. When they stopped one had no choice to buy another brand with another OS. So a few years I'm a Yammie, but no problem to change to another OS. It's nowadays all about software: your TV, smartphone, car, microwave etc. etc. So, for the time being I love my SX900 till ...  ;)
My best regards,
Ton
 

Offline Graham UK

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #172 on: July 19, 2022, 02:45:35 PM »
Duffy. Don't let the Korg OS put you off. You will have had the same learning when you obtain your first Yamaha,
A little bit of frustrated learning Korg OS will pay dividends...Korg have done a number how to Videos Manuals

Regarding Learning A New OS.   (As per my article above.)
I have owned over the years Roland & Korg & Yamaha. I did not have any problem learning a different OS.
If you treat each of them as giving you the same required end results.
It's like driving from A to B, the Sat-Nav may give you 3 options but you still finish up at B, just via different roads.
As we get older it's about keeping one's brain active...I'm 85.

Korg Video Manuals.]

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=korg+Pa5X+tutorials
« Last Edit: July 19, 2022, 02:47:59 PM by Graham UK »
DGX670
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #173 on: July 19, 2022, 03:02:40 PM »
Hey Duffy :

Apparently you are not the only one who is seriously interested in the new competitor's high end keyboard.

I feel sorry to believe Yamaha have no answer yet.
What is going on there  ?
Why no news ?
I am worried !

JH

 

Offline usaraiya

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #174 on: July 19, 2022, 03:16:06 PM »
Jeff,

When Genos was released, Korg did not respond immediately; it took them five years to respond!
So, I think Yamaha will respond when the new G2 is entirely ready to be released, not earlier, and I think it will be great!
Good things come to people who wait. (I don't think Confucious said that!)
 :)
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #175 on: July 19, 2022, 04:06:53 PM »
The PA4X came in 2015, the Genos in 2017.
JH
 

Offline usaraiya

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #176 on: July 19, 2022, 04:13:10 PM »
So, the 5X comes in 2022, and it took 5 years for Korg to respond from 2017.
 

Offline valimaties

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #177 on: July 19, 2022, 04:38:19 PM »
So, the 5X comes in 2022, and it took 5 years for Korg to respond from 2017.

It was a pandemic time, so make a little adjustment :)
______________________________________________
Genos(1) v2.13, Korg PA5X, Allen & Heath SQ5
My youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzi9PPrMTjN8_zX9P9kelxg

Vali Maties - Genos
 

Offline ton37

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #178 on: July 19, 2022, 04:45:27 PM »
Good calculation. The Genos was a new model from scratch for Yamaha, just as the Pa5x is for Korg. In other words, it shouldn't be too difficult for Yamaha to put down a good competitor based on the Genos. The Pa5x is on the dissection table by Yamaha. Now the designers are of course working hard to adjust a few things to give a good answer to this top-korg. They probably need a little less than 2 years. Only I don't expect that there will be a 61-key version and I don't really expect that there will be many 'wishes' fulfilled n the Genos 2?? Time will tell.... Good things come to those who wait, ... but only whats left from those who hustle!” (Abe Lincoln) ;D
« Last Edit: July 19, 2022, 04:47:58 PM by ton37 »
My best regards,
Ton
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #179 on: July 19, 2022, 05:24:35 PM »
Hey Ton :

It is hard to believe we have to wait another couple of years before the Genos2 will be released. ???

Sorry ... the new Genos2 has to be presented at the end of 2022 and be available for sale early 2023 to avoid Korg will be too successful. ;)

Cross my fingers !
Best wishes, JH

 

Offline stephenm52

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #180 on: July 19, 2022, 05:50:45 PM »
I'm not counting on a new Genos anytime soon. Would I like to see a new Genos, sure I like new arrangers.   I've had plenty of new keyboards at this point in life I'm just enjoying what I have now and continue to work on new material.  At my age and at the young age I've lost many friends if I wait too long for a new Genos I may not be alive.
GENOS, SX900, Clavinova CVP 307, Korg Pa4x.........

Steve's Genos Recordings
Steve's Gig Disks
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #181 on: July 19, 2022, 06:39:51 PM »
Hey Stephen :

I understand.

I have the impression nobody believes Yamaha will come with a new arranger soon.

It is what it is ... and I have to move on. Amen.   8)

JH





 

Offline EileenL

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #182 on: July 19, 2022, 07:24:24 PM »
I think you will find the majority of us are still enjoying our Genos Keyboards and will have them set up the way we want them. From what I can see a lot of valuable playing time has been wasted with all this speculation on what will be and what will not.
  Come back to us when you have your new Korgs and Yamaha's and interest us with what is and not what you thought it would be.

Offline Graham UK

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #183 on: July 19, 2022, 07:58:03 PM »
Feelings...Another Nice Left Hand.

I have been playing my left hand like this for a few years.
This standard is encouraging me to do better.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OitMiMOpeXk
DGX670
 

Offline ton37

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #184 on: July 19, 2022, 08:00:09 PM »
Hi EileenL, why are you stressing that everyone is still enjoying their Genos? That is not claimed or is it not the case? This 'pinned' post is about the Korg/Yamaha similarities, differences, technical innovations etc. etc. ? Not about Genos or any other model being 'better or worse'?
And, don't worry about how I plan my time. One reads, the other responds.. It's a forum, isn't it?  ;)
« Last Edit: July 19, 2022, 08:02:01 PM by ton37 »
My best regards,
Ton
 

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #185 on: July 19, 2022, 08:04:18 PM »
To Eileen's point, I find the Genos to be more "ageless" than any Tyros or PSR I've owned. Those keyboards became stale after three or four years, as I learned new material for the stage. I'm in four bands at the moment and we play Motown, Light Jazz, Country, Blues, Swing, Oldies, and a few other genres I can't even name. The Genos has not been taxed to its limits yet. It still meets the bill. My fellow players are still amazed at its sound.

If Yamaha puts that kind of immortality into the Genos 1, it should be interesting to see what they come up with for Genos 2 ;D!
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline Duffy

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #186 on: July 19, 2022, 08:34:48 PM »
I think you will find the majority of us are still enjoying our Genos Keyboards and will have them set up the way we want them. From what I can see a lot of valuable playing time has been wasted with all this speculation on what will be and what will not.
  Come back to us when you have your new Korgs and Yamaha's and interest us with what is and not what you thought it would be.

Hi Eileen,
We too, are still enjoying our Yamaha keyboards, in my case, the Genos.
I have considered buying a PA5X and may still do, but that doesn't cut me off from my Genos at all.
It sounds as though we are regarded as being on the outside of the group because we have been complimentary about the Korg.
I also use 3 modules (not all at the same time) whilst I play my Genos but this doesn't make me a traitor in any way.
I know what I want to sound like and I just do my best to achieve this.
It's all about enjoying music and life and sharing that with others, and we don't have to stick rigidly to a certain keyboard to do that.
We don't want splitting into 2 different groups because we like a pudding as well as a meal.
I will not have to come back because I will not be leaving whilst I still breathe.
I don't understand why this conversation must be all or nothing when we all have the very same interests and pass our time doing the same thing.
 
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Offline EileenL

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #187 on: July 19, 2022, 10:26:35 PM »
I am no way suggesting that people leave because they have different keyboards but do remember this is first and foremost a Yamaha forum and whilst I don't mind hearing about what else is out there, four pages of something that gets no where is a little of putting. The same thing is being repeated over and over and that is when is Genos 2 coming out and hope it has this and hope it has that. My answer to this was enjoy what you have and the future will take care of itself.

Offline ton37

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #188 on: July 19, 2022, 10:36:34 PM »
Hi Eileen, you are free to skip reading all those nonsens if you want! That is why it is in one topic.
Allthought, thinking over about this subject (pa5x) on a Yamaha forum I think most is said, so not an important remark😃 but I quit from this discussion. 🤔😏😎
My best regards,
Ton
 

Online pjd

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #189 on: July 19, 2022, 11:38:04 PM »
The same thing is being repeated over and over and that is when is Genos 2 coming out and hope it has this and hope it has that.

For better or worse, this is human nature.  :D I'm old enough to worry about repeating myself...  ;D

All with a large grain of salt -- pj
 

Offline stephenm52

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #190 on: July 20, 2022, 12:14:28 AM »
Hey Stephen :

I understand.

I have the impression nobody believes Yamaha will come with a new arranger soon.

It is what it is ... and I have to move on. Amen.   8)

JH

Hi Jeff,  If by any chance they release a Genos 2 we will all have a nice surprise.
GENOS, SX900, Clavinova CVP 307, Korg Pa4x.........

Steve's Genos Recordings
Steve's Gig Disks
 

Offline stephenm52

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #191 on: July 20, 2022, 12:17:54 AM »
To Eileen's point, I find the Genos to be more "ageless" than any Tyros or PSR I've owned. Those keyboards became stale after three or four years, as I learned new material for the stage. I'm in four bands at the moment and we play Motown, Light Jazz, Country, Blues, Swing, Oldies, and a few other genres I can't even name. The Genos has not been taxed to its limits yet. It still meets the bill. My fellow players are still amazed at its sound.

If Yamaha puts that kind of immortality into the Genos 1, it should be interesting to see what they come up with for Genos 2 ;D!

Lee,  Although I'm not playing in any bands I agree with all you wrote.
GENOS, SX900, Clavinova CVP 307, Korg Pa4x.........

Steve's Genos Recordings
Steve's Gig Disks
 
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Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #192 on: July 20, 2022, 07:14:21 AM »
Hi Guys :

The interrelationship between Yamaha and Korg seems to be a lot better than I ever have thought it was. 

I have always believed both companies were real competitors.  ::)

I apologize for not being aware of this important information. :P

To quote Wikipedia :
Yamaha Corporation has always been a major partner of Korg, supplying them with circuitry and mechanical parts.


Best regards, JH
« Last Edit: July 20, 2022, 09:11:09 AM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Offline musicman01

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #193 on: July 20, 2022, 09:18:59 AM »
Dear forum members,
There has been a discussion here about the better or worse keyboard for a while now, and I wish this and that in future keyboards etc… .
I think very few people understand how difficult it is to more or less meet customer needs. The current top-arranger keyboards, mainly Yamaha & Korg which are at a very high level and excel in sound quality, it is very difficult to make the instrument sounds even better, the current “Articulation” functions in Tyros 4,5-Genos , Korg Pa 1000-3x-4x-5x is a good example of this but has its limitations. For example the comment of someone who said that the Sax in Pa5x was nothing, let a real saxophone be played by 5 different music sides, it will sound 5 times different! For example, phrasings that are performed on acoustic instruments can only be imitated to a very limited extent on a keyboard.
A final example are the drums, the Revodrums in Yamaha & Round Robin drums in Pa5x. Although the drums in Pa4x were already very good compared to Genos, Korg has built this in too, you can see that brands are looking to each other to stay close to each other when it comes to competition.
We as customers can only benefit from it.
As for the arrival of a possible Genos 2, if Yamaha doesn't even finally make an effort to properly take care of the outside and keyboard and like Korg brings good Pianos and finally good organ drawbars on board, they can better stick to the current Genos and bring some good updates. Yamaha has the technology in CP and YC models. On the other hand, if Korg still does what has been proposed for the new Pa5x, Yamaha will have to shift up a gear if they don't want to lose customers. Korg already had a very good Midi to Style converter in Pa4x (Creatorbot), a very extensive Sound & Style editor, etc., things that were interesting for the more professional music side. These things and several others will be available again in the next Korg Pa5x upgrades. So Yamaha be warned!!!!
 
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Offline Duffy

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #194 on: July 20, 2022, 09:57:14 AM »
To reply to both Jeff, and Musicman,
I also didn't know that Yamaha and Korg worked closely together but I am certainly glad to hear it because there must be good spin-offs in both directions, which can only benefit us all.
For my part, this conversation has never been about "the best" or setting Yamaha & Korg up like a couple of prizefighters.
Both companies produce brilliant keyboards (and so also, do Ketron & Bohm) but none have got everything absolutely right yet as Genos organs and sound glitches prove.
My first love was Technics, especially the great KN7000 and I have also owned a few Roland's and Ketron's.  I still use Roland & Ketron modules with my Genos.
Since I couldn't replace my KN 7000, I have had Tyros3 Tyros 4 and Genos and, over time, have always been used to working with registrations. (the 10 memories on Genos is perfect).
I do agree that Yamaha need to move quickly to address the few failings on Genos to avoid losing customers to Korg.
It seems that Korg also, have been lax in not incorporating form the start, their midi to style system and their Style editor.
To sum up, I don't wish to upset Yamaha lovers or anyone else and those who think Genos is the absolute bees knees. It's very nice to be happy and contented with what you have.
I, like many, are on the quest for the most perfect board and, whilst there are shortcomings, we are impatient for them to be put right.
Long live Yamaha, Korg, and yes, Ketron & Bohm too and thanks to them all for giving us all such pleasure.
Certainly no hard feelings to anyone I have disagreed with. I just want to enjoy myself and throw all my money at keyboards.
 
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Offline mikf

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #195 on: July 20, 2022, 10:03:18 AM »
Eileen
As I said in an earlier post the emergence of a new keyboard doesn’t change anything about the existing keyboards. If Genos was a great keyboard before, it still is now. If you loved it before, you should surely still love it now.
But the reason this thread has attracted so much attention is that despite initial skepticism, it is becoming clear to even the most dyed in the wool Yamaha arranger players, that this new Korg is an exceptional product. I don’t think there is much doubt that while it may not be better than Genos in every regard, overall it is definitely setting a new standard for arrangers. And that is important news to people who play and love arrangers, and makes it a legitimate thread even in a Yamaha forum. Will it turn a poor player into a great player, of course not. But it will make many players feel they have a better tool in their toolbox.
As someone who has been a leading proponent and pretty expert on arrangers for many years I am a little surprised that it is not also of great interest to you, but of course that is your prerogative. You may feel the thread has been overdone, but the fact is that new information on features and capability of this Korg keyboard is emerging almost daily. One of the things that impresses me is that they have addressed so many things that are of real benefit to typical arranger players, and not succumbed to the constant demand for features from a minority of players to make arrangers more competitive with workstation/ music production equipment.
How will Yamaha respond, and how long will it take? None of us know. Meanwhile most of us will carry on playing what we have, a few will buy the new Korg, but overall the world will stay the same. It’s just a discussion thread, not a war.
Mike
« Last Edit: July 20, 2022, 10:25:45 AM by mikf »
 
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Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #196 on: July 20, 2022, 10:50:18 AM »
Now that I found out there is an interrelationship between both companies, I made a mistake by underestimating the PA5X.
Sorry, Guys !

In my country the dealers, like in most other Western countries I guess, are selling both brands.

The customer is the only decision maker.
From now on I will respect her/his choice, promise.

Best wishes, JH





« Last Edit: July 20, 2022, 11:08:30 AM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Offline EileenL

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #197 on: July 20, 2022, 12:01:14 PM »
Well Jeff at one time Korg shared the factory at Yamaha Milton Keynes and then Korg moved on to there own premises. In a way they have always been allies if you like to call it that. This is why you will find many similarities in both keyboards but of course named and described differently.

Offline mikf

Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #198 on: July 20, 2022, 01:27:59 PM »
People should not read too much into prior Yamaha /Korg relationships. Yamaha bought over Korg back in 1983, which might explain the shared factory in the UK for a short while. But that situation did not last long as Korg purchased back all their shares over 25 years ago.
Since that time they have been completely separate and competitors in the electronic keyboard market. 
Although Korg have a deserved reputation in quality electronic keyboards, they are a very modest company compared to Yamaha, with maybe a few hundred employees. Yamaha are a mega corporation with between 25,000 and 30,000 employees, and dwarf Korg. Many Yamaha divisions and subsidiaries stand alone are many times bigger than total Korg. It is normal that many other companies including Korg will buy parts from Yamaha industrial subsidiaries. But that is not cooperation, just standard trading practice, and I have no doubt that in electronic keyboards Korg and Yamaha are fierce competitors and remain quite secretive from each other on design and manufacture.
 Electronic keyboards are a significant, but by no means massive part of Yamaha in total, while Korg are 100% dependent on their electronic keyboard sales. Whether the PaX5 is a great keyboard or not, has nothing to do with a Yamaha connection.
Mike

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: This is the Real Deal Trade your Genos for You Know What!!!
« Reply #199 on: July 20, 2022, 03:12:10 PM »
Thank you for much for this historical arranger keyboard information, Mike. Very interesting !

Both companies have worked intensely together in the past.
They are both Japanese and located in the same country.
Apparently they know each other very well, have a good relationship and are sharing the same ( export ) customers.
Korg, a dwarf compared to Yamaha, are a very modest company with a well deserved reputation in quality electronic keyboards. 

Yamaha are a mega corporation. I wonder if/when Korg will ever become 100% Yamaha. ;)

Best regards,
JH