Author Topic: Sub-Outputs Problem  (Read 909 times)

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Offline sunny

Sub-Outputs Problem
« on: June 25, 2022, 04:04:21 AM »
Friends,
In Line out settings, when some parts are sent to Sub Outputs 1 to 4 , The system effects Reverb, and Chorus are Chorus are missing through Sub outputs and without these System Reverb and Chorus effects the sound quality is not good especially Voices and Microphone sound. Yamaha should rethink, and allow System effects Reverb and Chorus to work for sub outputs in the future software update.


Sunny
« Last Edit: June 25, 2022, 04:20:30 AM by sunny »
 

Re: Sub-Outputs Problem
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2022, 01:16:25 PM »
Hi Sunny,

Your idea has merit, in that we should have a choice of passing the Effects through to the Sub outputs. I think Yamaha's thinking is, the Sub outs are mostly used to send a variable volume signal to an external mixer or effects unit. In that case, you'd want the signal to be sent dry.

As far as I know, the only output signal that carries the Genos effects are the Main outs. When I play large shows where there's a sound man, I run my Main outs to two Bose Pro 8 speakers. They each have a line out, from which the sound man can take a feed to the snake. My effects are completely controlled by me. I even tell the sound man to set the mixer channels on his board to dry (I think they usually do that for line level signals anyway). The sound man can still play with the bass, mids, and treble.
 

Offline sunny

Re: Sub-Outputs Problem
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2022, 05:17:28 PM »
Hi Sunny,

Your idea has merit, in that we should have a choice of passing the Effects through to the Sub outputs. I think Yamaha's thinking is, the Sub outs are mostly used to send a variable volume signal to an external mixer or effects unit. In that case, you'd want the signal to be sent dry.

As far as I know, the only output signal that carries the Genos effects are the Main outs. When I play large shows where there's a sound man, I run my Main outs to two Bose Pro 8 speakers. They each have a line out, from which the sound man can take a feed to the snake. My effects are completely controlled by me. I even tell the sound man to set the mixer channels on his board to dry (I think they usually do that for line level signals anyway). The sound man can still play with the bass, mids, and treble.

Not at all Genos players use external effects units. There should be an option to select Dry or System effect. It would be better.

Sunny
 

Re: Sub-Outputs Problem
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2022, 07:03:34 PM »
Not at all Genos players use external effects units. There should be an option to select Dry or System effect. It would be better.

Sunny
Wish I had said that. I wrote, "Your idea has merit, in that we should have a choice of passing the Effects through to the Sub outputs." :o
 

Offline pjd

Re: Sub-Outputs Problem
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2022, 05:30:19 PM »
Hi --

If I read the effect block diagram (page 32 Genos Reference Manual) right, insertion effect block 20 can be assigned to the microphone. There are several reverb presets available for the insertion effect. The effected sound can then be routed to a SUB OUT.

"Real Reverb" is not available as an insertion effect. A shame, since this is a darned good reverb.

If the MIC is going to the MAIN OUT, too, one needs to dial down the MIC reverb send in the mixer. Otherwise, the system reverb will get applied on top of the insertion reverb.

If you want a dry signal through insertion block 20, either turn it off or choose the "THRU" preset.

Yamaha's limitations on the assignment of insertion blocks is a little strange and inflexible. Only insertion block 20 can be assigned to the MIC.

Hope this info helps -- pj
 

Offline sunny

Re: Sub-Outputs Problem
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2022, 05:56:39 PM »
Hi --

If I read the effect block diagram (page 32 Genos Reference Manual) right, insertion effect block 20 can be assigned to the microphone. There are several reverb presets available for the insertion effect. The effected sound can then be routed to a SUB OUT.

"Real Reverb" is not available as an insertion effect. A shame, since this is a darned good reverb.

If the MIC is going to the MAIN OUT, too, one needs to dial down the MIC reverb send in the mixer. Otherwise, the system reverb will get applied on top of the insertion reverb.

If you want a dry signal through insertion block 20, either turn it off or choose the "THRU" preset.

Yamaha's limitations on the assignment of insertion blocks is a little strange and inflexible. Only insertion block 20 can be assigned to the MIC.

Hope this info helps -- pj

The SUB Outputs 1-4 are good for nothing, because not all the players use external effect units. Most of the players want's sound to be separated to different outputs without missing any sound effect. The Microphone sound and keyboard voices with Real Reverb sounds amazing and without  "Real Reverb", the sound has no proper depth. Hope Yamaha  allows System effects to work for sub outputs by releasing new software update soon.

Sunny
« Last Edit: July 01, 2022, 06:06:30 PM by sunny »
 

Re: Sub-Outputs Problem
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2022, 06:52:00 PM »
Quote
Most of the players want's sound to be separated to different outputs without missing any sound effect.
How do you know this? I can certainly see where some of the time, it would be handy to have the effects carried through but the basic premise for any Sub out is like a pre-amp out on an amplifier - it sends a dry signal for someone or something else to add effects.

If you want effects sent through, send them through the Aux outs but then the signal is at a fixed volume. I believe the effects are passed to the Aux outs? Would that work?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2022, 06:54:09 PM by Lee Batchelor »
 

Offline pjd

Re: Sub-Outputs Problem
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2022, 12:54:19 AM »
The Microphone sound and keyboard voices with Real Reverb sounds amazing and without  "Real Reverb", the sound has no proper depth.

Hi Sunny --

So what you're really missing is Real Reverb on the microphone and Yamaha should implement Real Reverb as an insertion effect, too.

But, if you are willing to use some other reverb type like "Hall 1" as the MIC insertion effect, it is possible to put some reverb on the MIC. It just won't be Real Reverb.

All the best -- pj
 
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