Author Topic: How to change LSB in cpf pack?  (Read 772 times)

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Offline baghdad4ever

How to change LSB in cpf pack?
« on: June 21, 2022, 05:53:55 PM »
Hi everyone
I bought 2 Expansions from different programmers, (.cpf files) 
and now I have a problem
Unfortunately 2 packs sharing the same lsb number, so one of these packs will not work correctly. I tried to change its location via yamaha expansion manager , but it doesnt work
Is there any way to solve this problem
What is the proper way to change lsb No.?
Thanks
« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 05:55:11 PM by baghdad4ever »
 

Offline Misu

Re: How to change LSB in cpf pack?
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2022, 06:57:57 AM »
Hi,

Any pack, PPF or CPF, that you will load on YEM doesn't come with a specific LSB.
When you load he will take the first free position starting with 000 until 127.
If you want to change LSB for a specific one:
1. Click on him to be selected.
2. Open with UP ARROW button menu and choose Change Bank Select LSB
3. On the new window you will find all packs grey except the selected one.
4. Drag this pack to a new free position.
5. Save on exit.
If works but the packs still doesn't work properly can be another cause for example if in pack are used voices from another packs.
Check after install if styles voices are from the original pack.
Regards!
 
PSR SX-900; PA 1000; AKX 10
 

Offline RoyB

Re: How to change LSB in cpf pack?
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2022, 11:00:47 AM »
Whilst what Misu said is generally correct (PPF/CPF don't have specific LSB assignments and YEM will automatically assign LSBs in sequence), it may not necessarily ALWAYS be the case.

I have a V3 Yammex Expansion module and that requires you to manually assign (thereby reserving) specific LSBs in YEM in order for it to work correctly.

Although it is unusual (and I haven't come across any other cases), I suppose other individual PPF/CPF programmers could assign fixed specific LSB requirements, and if 2 different programmers assign the same specific LSBs then I don't think there is much you can do about it.

Regards

Roy
Roy

Tyros 5-76; Roland FA08; Yammex V3; Behringer Q502USB; Arturia BeatStep; Alesis Elevate 3 MkIII;  Yamaha YST-FSW050; Sony MDR 7510; MultiTrackStudio Pro + AAMS.

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQu3I6XidcZWOmsl_FM49_Q/videos
 

Offline Joe H

Re: How to change LSB in cpf pack?
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2022, 04:03:28 PM »
I believe Misu is correct.  It's not possible to pre-assign a LSB number to a pack.  YEM will assign a the next available LSB when a pack is loaded into YEM.

Joe H
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 07:26:33 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline baghdad4ever

Re: How to change LSB in cpf pack?
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2022, 05:04:31 PM »
Thank you
The programmer assign their packs to specific LSB for certain reason
So I must drag these packs manually to its own LSB No. ( which is provided by programmers)
But unfortunately I discover 2 packs share the same LSB No.
I tried to give new LSB No. To one pack but it doesnt work

How to fix that ??

Thanks
 

Offline overover

Re: How to change LSB in cpf pack?
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2022, 05:48:16 PM »
Hi baghdad4ever,

So that I can help you, please answer the following question first:

Are the Styles, Multi Pads or MIDI files belonging to these Packs included in the respective Pack (so that they are in the YEM after importing the Pack) or are the Styles  etc. delivered separately, i.e. to be called from a location outside of the Expansion folder, e.g. from a USB stick (which I assume)?


Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 06:27:24 PM by overover »
They always said: "This is not possible!"  Then someone came and - just did it!

Never put the manual too far away.  There's more in it than you think!
 

Offline Joe H

Re: How to change LSB in cpf pack?
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2022, 07:29:29 PM »
baghdad4ever,

If you assign a new LSB number in YEM, the styles and MultiPads in the pack will automatically be re-assigned to the new LSB number.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline baghdad4ever

Re: How to change LSB in cpf pack?
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2022, 07:53:44 PM »
Hi baghdad4ever,

So that I can help you, please answer the following question first:

Are the Styles, Multi Pads or MIDI files belonging to these Packs included in the respective Pack (so that they are in the YEM after importing the Pack) or are the Styles  etc. delivered separately, i.e. to be called from a location outside of the Expansion folder, e.g. from a USB stick (which I assume)?


Best regards,
Chris
Styles  and multipad. delivered separately outside the pack
 

Offline baghdad4ever

Re: How to change LSB in cpf pack?
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2022, 07:55:34 PM »
baghdad4ever,

If you assign a new LSB number in YEM, the styles and MultiPads in the pack will automatically be re-assigned to the new LSB number.

Joe H
You are right but the Styles in these packs delivered separately  as files in usb
 

Offline Joe H

Re: How to change LSB in cpf pack?
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2022, 08:08:22 PM »
You can change the LSB for the styles and Multi Pads using MixMaster with the batch processing function if the styles and Multi Pads are separate from the pack or you can Import them into the pack as Content.  Then when you change the LSB for the pack the LSB will be changed on the styles and Multi Pads.  You can always copied them from the User Drive to your USB drive if you want them separate again.  I have done that with several pack styles and MPs.

It sounds like the person you bought this pack from doesn't know what he is doing.

Joe H
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 08:11:55 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Amwilburn

Re: How to change LSB in cpf pack?
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2022, 11:42:37 PM »
Unfortunately, Misu, there *are* 3rd party expansions that require a specific LSB, yes. Otherwise their voices will point to the wrong place.

Joe, I've never used mixmaster, but I can tell you changing the LSB in some packs *will* reassign them with the correct LSB, and some packs are hard coded for a specific LSB; but yes, if baghdad changes the 2nd pack with the same LSB to a different one, and mixmaster can alter all the voice tables for you, then problem solved.

If not, you can: install the 1st pack, and copy and paste all the styles into a custom folder, but you'd have to document which voices go where. Then when you install the 2nd pack to the same LSB, reassign the 1st one, then go through every single style /multipad voice part, and reassign to the voice using the new 2nd LSB. Yes this is time consuming. It means 8 parts for each Intro 1,2,3, Main A,B,C,D, Fill A,B,C,D Break, Ending 1,2,3. potentially 120 parts per style + 4 OTS settings with up to 4 parts each ><

You can reduce the workload by loading up both packs separately first, and seeing which uses fewer samples, and make the one with fewer the remap target.

I'm assuming Mixmaster does that for you? Which would solve your dilemma.

Is it this one?
https://psrtutorial.com/MB/EV_Files/mixmaster.html

Mark



Offline Joe H

Re: How to change LSB in cpf pack?
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2022, 12:02:23 AM »
The truth of the matter is that the LSB is NOT saved with the pack when Exported.  That would create a whole set of problems. If the styles and Multi Pads are provided separately, they may contain the programmers LSB for Voices at the time he created the pack as the OP described in his situation. 

The facts are that YEM will assign the next available LSB when a pack is Imported.  I have deleted a pack that was assign a certain LSB, then I Imported it again, YEM assigned a new LSB.  The styles I saved to my USB1 drive would not play right.  It took awhile to understand what had happened. As stated above... if the styles and Multi Pads are included in the pack, then YEM will assign the Voices in that content with the assigned LSB.

It is not possible to hard code the User packs like Yamaha has done with their own packs which use a different MSB and NOT the 063 MSB for User and 3rd party packs

 ;)

Joe H
« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 12:03:52 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Amwilburn

Re: How to change LSB in cpf pack?
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2022, 12:22:52 AM »
The truth of the matter is that the LSB is NOT saved with the pack when Exported.  That would create a whole set of problems. If the styles and Multi Pads are provided separately, they may contain the programmers LSB for Voices at the time he created the pack as the OP described in his situation. 

The facts are that YEM will assign the next available LSB when a pack is Imported.  I have deleted a pack that was assign a certain LSB, then I Imported it again, YEM assigned a new LSB.  The styles I saved to my USB1 drive would not play right.  It took awhile to understand what had happened. As stated above... if the styles and Multi Pads are included in the pack, then YEM will assign the Voices in that content with the assigned LSB.

It is not possible to hard code the User packs like Yamaha has done with their own packs which use a different MSB and NOT the 063 MSB for User and 3rd party packs

 ;)

Joe H

With all the Yamaha packs, LSB is automatically reassigned. But I've seen 2 3rd party ones where it *is* fixed, and yes, it's creating exactly the problem he's asking about. Moreover, when I create my own registrations? they assume the voices with the LSB where it's set, if I change it, the registration no longer works. But likewise, styles that rely on 3rd part voices in specific LSB's no longer work if you change them to another LSB.

If you're wondering which 2 packs I've encountered, 1 was a PSM Pop pack installed for a customer (it actually gave instructions on where the LSB had to be or else none of the styles/ registrations would work) and the other was a Middle Eastern one where I had no instructions (at least the customer didn't recall receiving any), so I had to install it, load the style to see what the LSB was, *then* manually move the pack to that LSB and voila, all his styles worked.

*Yes* it's likely because the packs themselves were structured like Korg install files, meaning the styles were on a separate folder within the large zip (and weren't native to the cpf file). But AFAIK most 3rd party packs work this way. So yes, most 3rd party packs (that I've seen) run into exactly this problem because they save the styles & registrations as a folder, separate from the cpf itself.

Which is again, what the OP said his situation was. I think maybe most 3rd party packs are like this?

Mark

Offline Joe H

Re: How to change LSB in cpf pack?
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2022, 03:01:39 AM »
Mark,

What you have described supports what I have explained.  Third party developers should not be selling packs this way with styles and Multi Pads offered separately from the Voice packs, then dictate what the LSB should be.   The OP needs to either use MixMaster to change the LSB in the style and Multi Pad files or add them to his pack(s) as "Content" then the Voice LSB in the style and Multi Pad files included in the pack will be change by YEM.

Yamaha packs cannot be altered even if we try because they use a different MSB and are not affected when Imported into YEM. YEM only deals with User or 3rd party packs that use the MSB 063.

Joe H
« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 03:02:56 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline baghdad4ever

Re: How to change LSB in cpf pack?
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2022, 11:50:48 AM »
either use MixMaster to change the LSB in the style and Multi Pad files or add them to his pack(s) as "Content" then the Voice LSB in the style and Multi Pad files included in the pack will be change by YEM.

Joe H
I canít add anything to packs because it is locked 🔒 i can only check or unchecked content

So i will try mixmaster
Thank you
 

Offline Joe H

Re: How to change LSB in cpf pack?
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2022, 02:11:30 PM »
You should be able to change the LSB on the pack to any number you want.  Then in MixMaster, you can change the LSB on the styles and Multi Pads to match.  I was the one who asked for this feature because of the problem I ran into myself and it also would allow users to exchange files using expansion packs when the LSB numbers are different.

It is obvious that some 3rd party developers do not understand this problem.

Joe H
« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 02:12:37 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html