Author Topic: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.  (Read 1841 times)

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Offline Stijn

Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« on: May 01, 2022, 01:57:03 PM »
I could use some expert help.
Sometimes there is a 'Solo' part that is just too difficult for me or too fast to play. I have the sheet music and I have the midi song (example song) that comes with the pack.
I was wondering, can I use that midi song to make a Multi Pad so that it only plays the solo part while the Style keeps playing? How do I do that and how do I keep things synchronized?
After the solo part is finished I want to continue playing.

Or is there another way?

Stijn



I'm not talented ... but I practice a lot.
(please visit  www.youtube.com/channel/UCAWFQaqvxQY236bxDuToc4A)
 

Offline mikf

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2022, 02:13:07 PM »
You could use an intro, but you would need to do some pretty fancy programming. I would say the best way is to simplify the solo to something you can play. This idea that you need to copy a song recording note for note is unnecessary. Do it your way.
Mike

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2022, 02:22:39 PM »
Agreed. Mike makes an excellent point

Stijn, what is the song? Perhaps we can provide some solo ideas. When I play in bands, we either play a song as a "cover" or a "tribute." The cover is our version of it. A tribute is the exact version the artist did.

Most of the time (if not all), we maintain the key phrasing and chords of the original. You can't wander off too far because the song becomes too unfamiliar to the audience. For example, if a band covers I Saw Her Standing There by the Beatles, the bass player must be prepared to play the bass line exactly how McCartney did in the original. That's a signature line. I doubt there's any other song with the same pattern.

Give us more information. Perhaps we can help.

- Lee
 

Offline Stijn

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2022, 02:44:34 PM »
Thank you Lee, and Mike.

It's not one specific song, I have a number of them. And I already try to play a simplified version as Mike suggests.
Or ... when it's really too difficult, just skip it  ;-)   [I only play at home, not in a band].

I have a song style, sheet music and the demo midi song.
So I was wondering if there is a way to extract that solo part from the midi song and use it in one way or another; as a multi pad or maybe a midi or audio.

Stijn
 
I'm not talented ... but I practice a lot.
(please visit  www.youtube.com/channel/UCAWFQaqvxQY236bxDuToc4A)
 

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2022, 03:05:29 PM »
The only way I know to extract the MIDI part, is to import the entire MIDI file into a DAW program, extract the part you want, and then save it as a separate MIDI file. The procedure is uncharted waters for me. We need someone more versed in MIDI and audio playback on the Genos to reply. I'm sure that will happen soon.

Offline jwyvern

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2022, 03:19:30 PM »
Hi Stijn,
You could play the midi (selecting the channels you want to hear) and simultaneously record it to Audio on Genos. Then cut out the solo part on say Audacity and use it to produce an Audio Multipad on Genos. (goto Multipad Creator and select Audio Link MP.)

John
« Last Edit: May 01, 2022, 03:27:52 PM by jwyvern »
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2022, 03:39:28 PM »
Hello  Stijn,
  Why not record you Solo part at a speed you can manage or even step record it into a multi pad if that is the way you want to go.

Offline Stijn

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2022, 03:40:58 PM »
Thank you John, I'll give it a try.
That won't be to difficult to manage, although it will be a challenge to get it synchronized.
A pedal action may do the trick.

Cheers,
Stijn


I'm not talented ... but I practice a lot.
(please visit  www.youtube.com/channel/UCAWFQaqvxQY236bxDuToc4A)
 

Online ckobu

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2022, 03:51:34 PM »
Hi Stijn,
this way you can copy the MIDI channel to the Multipad. It is shown for rhythm guitar but in the same way a solo section can be made. The Repeat function should be set to No.
https://youtu.be/LrMD7Qm2Rsk

I think a better option is to do an INTRO, it was already suggested at the beginning. The process is a bit more complicated but this video may help you.
https://youtu.be/lXRVyJSSMiY
Of course, be sure to check out the first part to get acquainted with the basic actions in handling the midi2style program
https://youtu.be/XZl1RjD5PEI

regards, ckobu
Watch my video channel
 

Offline Stijn

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2022, 03:52:09 PM »
Thank you Eileen. Another useful idea!

I know how to create a Multi Pad by playing the notes and I know how to create Audio MPs.
But is it possible to use a midi extract to create a midi multi pad on Genos, or can it only be done using an application like Padmaker Midi?

I think I'm gathering useful ideas this way ;-)  thank you all.

Stijn
I'm not talented ... but I practice a lot.
(please visit  www.youtube.com/channel/UCAWFQaqvxQY236bxDuToc4A)
 

Offline Stijn

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2022, 03:57:47 PM »
Thank you Ckobu.

I will certainly check out the videos you suggest.
Copying the MIDI channel looks promising and I will also learn more about using an Intro - maybe that's the way to go.

All very useful ideas! I'm grateful for the help.

Stijn
I'm not talented ... but I practice a lot.
(please visit  www.youtube.com/channel/UCAWFQaqvxQY236bxDuToc4A)
 

Offline dinapoli

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2022, 06:59:46 PM »
I would record the song at a slow speed.  But why?
I don't agree a song should be played or copied note per note.

I would like to mention, "It's Now or never"  It's a version of an old Neapolitan song, so it's "Surrender"  Did I mention "Unchained Melody"? I can go on but check the history of many songs, the original version doesn't resemble the version we are familiar with.  Check out the many versions of Blue Moon!
Hear some of the songs by Neil Sedaka he sings different versions of the same song he also sing in Italian!
One of the most popular is "My Way" Originally in French, Paul Anka, Elvis and Sinatra have different versions.  I sing it in Italian and English!

Only a machine plays the same two times!

Offline mikf

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2022, 09:35:50 PM »
Recording at slow speed is only an option if the object is to make a recording. No use for live playing. I still say stop worrying about note for note, or elaborate ways to copy the midi, invent your own solo. Itís playing thatís fun, not finding fancy ways so you donít have to play.
Mike

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2022, 08:25:33 AM »
send me the midi and will make a multipad for you

Regards Coln
 

Offline Stijn

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2022, 08:33:18 AM »
Thank you Coln, but I want to learn how to do it myself so that I understand more about midi and multi pads.

Maybe I need to turn a knob and do as Mike says, play my own solo.

Anyway, thank you all for your input.

Stijn
I'm not talented ... but I practice a lot.
(please visit  www.youtube.com/channel/UCAWFQaqvxQY236bxDuToc4A)
 

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2022, 01:36:17 PM »
Stijn, all these suggestions are excellent but perhaps they aren't addressing the root of your problem. Here's some information about soloing that may help. There are three ways to solo:
  • Play the exact melody
  • Vamp on the chord structure of the song and basically avoid the melody
  • A combination of 1 and 2
I use the third method most of the time. The advantage is, you only need to learn a small amount of the actual melody. You play some of the melody to start and then just vamp on the chords in between. For beginners, the chord vamping can be just playing the chords in time with the music. Over time, you'll learn variations of the chords that adds a little more sophistication to your solo. The big advantage of this method is, you sound like you know how to solo but you don't cause the listener to lose track of your song, which often happens in method two.

The most difficult method, which you're currently trying to do, is the first one because you must play the song virtually note for note. What makes it the most difficult is the fact that you're not allowed to make any mistakes. There's no freedom. Method three let's you wander outside the lines a bit or a lot.

*Bonus information*
The great players like Ray Charles, Diana Krall, and Oscar Peterson almost always use method three.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2022, 01:37:27 PM by Lee Batchelor »
 

Offline Stijn

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2022, 03:36:02 PM »
Thank you Lee for your help.

I can read music, manage the melody and the chords so playing the songs is no problem, but some of them have a difficult solo part. Playing the exact solo melody as is on the sheet is a challenge and most of the time I mess it up. I could practice until I master it but the next time I play the song I will have forgotten most of it.

So I'll try out your advice in suggestion #2, vamp the chord structure!

Thanks for the tip,
Stijn
I'm not talented ... but I practice a lot.
(please visit  www.youtube.com/channel/UCAWFQaqvxQY236bxDuToc4A)
 

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2022, 09:11:44 PM »
Glad to help, Stijn. Also, don't feel bad. I seldom play a solo perfectly or the same way twice. So far, the audiences have let me off the hook. No rotten fruit thrown at me yet ;D ;D ;D!

Offline Toril S

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2022, 09:32:20 PM »
I have been taking piano lessons for a while, in is amazed at how many pieces start so nice and easy, than go out into space, and I fall of the wagon.....I have concludet that no piano piece is easy. Alas. My teacher mentioned improvising as a good way to play, but I am not so good at that either. Miss the autocomp. Long live the autocomp, but it killed my piano skille  :)
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2022, 10:19:57 PM »
I have been taking piano lessons for a while, in is amazed at how many pieces start so nice and easy, than go out into space, and I fall of the wagon.....I have concludet that no piano piece is easy. Alas. My teacher mentioned improvising as a good way to play, but I am not so good at that either. Miss the autocomp. Long live the autocomp, but it killed my piano skille  :)
And therein lies the benefits and magic of the Genos. You can use it to help you sound like a pro or you can do it all yourself ;).

Offline Toril S

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2022, 10:28:45 PM »
Yes😀😀
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline andyg

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2022, 10:40:28 PM »
One of my students came across the same 'problem' this week. He could play the piece OK but not the solo.

So we analysed it and worked out what was involved in the solo - what made it up. There were three scales and one arpeggio, so the first task was to learn each one, getting the notes and fingers exactly right. His 'homework' for this week was to get all of this ready at a steady speed - not fast, but accurate.

Next time, we'll look at fitting those scales and arpeggios into the solo itself, amending the fingering as required (it almost always is) and getting it up to a steady speed. The final push will be to bring it up to speed.

Yes, I agree that you don't need to play a solo note for note (the original artists seldom do so in live concert) but you do need two things:

1) to know what you're going to do in the solo, and the 'rules' that allow you to work this out
2) the ability to get your fingers around your own solo at the  required speed - which will probably require doing some scales and arpeggio practice

There are no real shortcuts to this sort of thing. Good luck with the practice and playing!
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2022, 11:43:21 PM »
Great advice, Andy.

It's important to know the theory behind all musical methods. Knowing how to play rhythm parts is a science as well. For example, we need to know the area of the keyboard in which to play while someone is singing or soloing. The same goes with soloing.

I must point out that dwelling on theory is certainly essential but spending substantial amount of time listening to how the pro players do it is equally important. I play passages that sound great but I sometimes have no idea why in some cases. Of course, being able to reproduce what a great piano player does requires keen ears - something not everyone has. I probably spend 50% of my musical time practicing and the other, just listening to the great players to see what I can salvage from their work.

So, takes Andy's advice but also be a great listener ;).
 

Offline Stijn

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2022, 09:12:18 AM »
Thank you Andy, Lee and Toril for your input.
I've learned not to be too critical. Practice the fingering (a lot) and then play my own version of it. I think.

I try and practice (also a lot!) but I'm not talented, I know. One day a real piano player visited and played my Genos.... it was amazing.
That evening I asked my wife to put a sheet over the Genos and hide it ...   just kidding...

Thank you all.

Stijn
« Last Edit: May 03, 2022, 09:21:26 AM by Stijn »
I'm not talented ... but I practice a lot.
(please visit  www.youtube.com/channel/UCAWFQaqvxQY236bxDuToc4A)
 

Offline tommac

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2022, 11:31:52 AM »
Probably not what you need but I downloaded a guitar solo from "November Rain" video which i cannot play and saved it as a WAV (?) and used that as a multipad--works ok for home fun

Edit--oops looks like already mentioned above
« Last Edit: May 03, 2022, 11:33:36 AM by tommac »
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2022, 10:44:08 PM »
Hi
I am totally self taught and the best way to conquer this is to get the scale in your brain.
I pick up a piece of sheet music with four sharps for example and then i play the scale until i get the pattern in my head.
This way makes things so much better
Then i play the difficult parts slowly until i gradually come up to speed.
After a while you find things start getting a lot easier.
Yes you can then record the part at a slower BPM  and slot it into a pad.
After a lot of practice, have a days rest and when you come back, it is like someone waved a magic wand at you.


All the Best
John  :)
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Stijn

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2022, 11:00:52 AM »
Thank you John.
Always nice to learn from members how they tackle a problem.
I will certainly give it a try.

Stijn
I'm not talented ... but I practice a lot.
(please visit  www.youtube.com/channel/UCAWFQaqvxQY236bxDuToc4A)
 

Offline Ingar

Re: Difficult to play Solo parts ... need some help.
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2022, 09:14:31 PM »
I try to learn the solo part, but sometimes I struggle a bit. I supply by just play the root note in the chord with mye right hand and improvise the best I can. Sometimes I use ending III and go back to the song before it ends.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 11:21:07 PM by Ingar »