Topic: Keeping My Genos Keyboard

[Gunnar Jonny]

.. I'll bet Yamaha has anticipated most of our requests. There's little they haven't thought of...

A few years ago I made an inquiry to Yamaha's technical customer support where I asked questions about the possibility of implementing a function via an update or as an addition to new models.
It was about how the chords show up in the display if transpose is used, something that more people than me have requested and also posted about here at the forum.
YCSupport had forwarded the question to the engineers, and the answer was quite simple. Sorry, but this was completely impossible and could not be done.
The strange thing is that this feature has been and still is present on several other brands models since the dawn of time..... 

[EileenL]

Well Lee,
  If Yamaha put everything on that has been requested, I doubt we would get it through the door let alone what the price would be. The sad thing is that most would not use half of it. How many people do you know that know what their Genos can do and it is now five years old.
  There are still many people who just want to sit down and play for themselves or others for the sheer joy of producing such lovely sounding music from this instrument. They don't want all the bells and whistles. All my playing life I have never used anything but my keyboard including any editing I have wanted. Never needed any computer programme to get what I wanted.

[Toril S]

Add me to the club, Eileen!

[Lee Batchelor]

Well Lee,
  If Yamaha put everything on that has been requested, I doubt we would get it through the door let alone what the price would be. The sad thing is that most would not use half of it. How many people do you know that know what their Genos can do and it is now five years old.
  There are still many people who just want to sit down and play for themselves or others for the sheer joy of producing such lovely sounding music from this instrument. They don't want all the bells and whistles. All my playing life I have never used anything but my keyboard including any editing I have wanted. Never needed any computer programme to get what I wanted.

Good point, Eileen. However, it still doesn't mean that those who need or want the many advanced features to expand their musical horizons, don't deserve them. I belong to four bands and with at least two of them, I can think of a few functions that would be nice to have, as to make my contribution even better. Just because we don't represent the majority of players, it doesn't make us any less important as customers. I've said it before and I'll say it again - if Yamaha touts the Genos as a pro-level instrument (and they do), then give us the tools to use it as such.

When I owned my Motif ES7, we had to do all creating and editing on the keyboard, just like the Genos (and Tyros series before it) until users demanded that Yamaha create a decent user interface so these changes could be made on our PCs. If Genos users don't need those tools, then they can ignore them. Meanwhile, pro-level players are stuck with antiquated tools that only satisfy the home players with their pro-level keyboards. I'd be happy to pay the extra for decent editing tools. There you go, Yamaha. There's another income stream for you 😀. Bet I'm not alone.

[Gunnar Jonny]

  There are still many people who just want to sit down and play for themselves or others for the sheer joy of producing such lovely sounding music from this instrument. They don't want all the bells and whistles.

Yes, but don't forget when Genos was announced, and it is clearly stated out that it is a Digital Music Workstation.
This make it legit to have certain expectations, wishes and hopes other than if it was aimed at the home market only, or.... ?
Quote:
The next step in the evolution of Digital Workstations: Genos

https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/arranger_workstations/genos/index.html

[mikf]

The main thing that drives what features get added is not cost, or lists of requests from some users, marketing statements, expectations or even how hard or easy it is to do. It’s what will most significantly affect sales. That’s what product development decision makers live and die by.
Mike

[EileenL]

Yes Mike,
  This would be very important for anyone wanting to sell products. They must produce something that will please everyone and suit everyone's pockets. They will of course go with what they know sells. It would be impossible to please everyone. I think a lot of people would be happy if they made things a little easier to do certain things they may find difficult at present.

[Lee Batchelor]

Yes Mike,
  This would be very important for anyone wanting to sell products. They must produce something that will please everyone and suit everyone's pockets. They will of course go with what they know sells. It would be impossible to please everyone. I think a lot of people would be happy if they made things a little easier to do certain things they may find difficult at present.

Very well put, Eileen .

[ton37]

Interesting exchange of thoughts. I notice that you mainly react from the top model (the Genos). Don't forget that Yamaha also wants/needs to bring in customers who have less requirements or have less to spend. In this line of thought, there are more models (and/or brands) that are interesting for buyers. Mostly stripped-down models and lower quality. I would have preferred a 'stripped down' Genos version, with good sounds and a good keybed, which can be played 'out of the box'. No bells and whistles on it. The SX900 comes pretty close, only they should have put in a Genos-similar keybed on it. The best thing would be a modular (software/firmware) system, so that you can decide for yourself what you want to buy. The buttons are there, only some don't work or don't have all the functions, because they are optional to buy if you want. It remains a bit 'weird' if you buy the top model, pay a top price for it and then don't use all those extras you paid for. Of course Yamaha will thank you for that, but certainly not your wallet.

[BogdanH]

...It remains a bit 'weird' if you buy the top model, pay a top price for it and then don't use all those extras you paid for....

-this can be said for every keyboard model.
I think, many are buying "better" keyboard than actually needed, and some just wish to have the best they can afford. For example: Many arranger keyboard owners never really created a style and so we could wonder, why didn't they bough some (cheaper) PSR-E keyboard instead. However, there's another aspect.. some features are simply good to have for "just in case" -especially if we know, that we can't afford to buy another keyboard anytime soon.
As for two Genos versions, where one would lack some features... I don't think that's a good idea. What features to take away? And how much price difference that would make? 10%? In that case, I bet, everyone would still buy full featured version.
However, if price difference would be quite bigger, then (depending on what features were missing), majority would probably decide for stripped version. But the thing is, even one of the two (same) keyboard has less features, it's production cost remains practically the same -it just means less income. So I don't think Yamaha would be interested in such scenario.
In that sense, I can imagine differences to be mostly on hardware side, i.e. 88 vs 61 keys, differences in back panel connections, etc. -that's what actually influences production costs.

And thinking further, I'm still surprised about substantial price difference between PSR-SX700 and SX900. And if something similar would happen with (next) Genos, I'm sure many would consider 61key option.

Just sharing my thoughts,
Bogdan

[EileenL]

I think that Yamaha have settled now on 76 keys for flagship and 61 for S series. Genos is not much wider that the tyros 5 61 note was.
  Here in the UK many thousands were sold and many to people who are about to retire and want to take up or continue playing music. They just want to sit and produce good sounding music with a very nice key bed good quality sounds and styles. Some do indeed venture into editing styles and voices after a while and then record there music which you will find on You Tube or face book to listen to. 

[Mike2]

I think it's important for us who are not professional, but enjoy the Genos we have right now.  It's ok to look ahead, and believe me I am one of them. I must face the reality, that the current Genos I have and enjoy playing, I don't know half of what this keyboard is capable of or offers. That's a great feature to have. But once again, with the new Genos will I be in the same boat as now, if I were to upgrade?

[Toril S]

I have both Genos and the T5. Genos is just a tad longer, and it is thinner and lighter. It is interesting that people say that the PSRs are much lighter. In fact, the PSRs are about  11.5 kgs, and the Genos is 13 kgs! But you get the onboard speakers in the PSRs, and that is sometimes very comvenient.

[tyrosman]

Well Lee,
  If Yamaha put everything on that has been requested, I doubt we would get it through the door let alone what the price would be. The sad thing is that most would not use half of it. How many people do you know that know what their Genos can do and it is now five years old.
  There are still many people who just want to sit down and play for themselves or others for the sheer joy of producing such lovely sounding music from this instrument. They don't want all the bells and whistles. All my playing life I have never used anything but my keyboard including any editing I have wanted. Never needed any computer programme to get what I wanted.

  add me to the club as well Eileen

[Bud2]

Hi, I must be way out of touch because I have not heard anything about a new keyboard from Yamaha, I would not be surprised though with Korg bringing out the PA5X and it appears they have rushed it out because there are a few things missing on it which has stopped me and a few more people not jumping in to buy it unless these things are included. Therefore I hope Yamaha don't rush with their next keyboard and make the same mistake.
By the way, off topic, Eileen, Shirley and I didn't realise how long ago it was since we had that great birthday celebration of yours at our meeting at Blackpool, we hope you and Ray are keeping well.
Bill

[EileenL]

Yes Bill and Shirley Ray and I are still around and both Ray and I are in our 86th year.
  Hope you are both well.

[Mike2]

I want to thank Eileen for her unwavering love and support for this forum, and the Genos 1 that many of us own. The reason why I am mentioning her, is that when I first came on the forum board, she was just a sweetheart to my needs with Yamaha.. I had just switched from Technics to Yamaha keyboard, and now the Genos. I think at the time, she was 83, but I felt that at 68, I could one day be as excited with my keyboard as she still is today. And that she is. Very inspiring, and something that all of us should strive for. Now there are many on this forum, who are absolutely great. And many of you have helped me in you response to my innocent postings. Thank you Eileen, and keep the feedback coming. You can't teach experience. Thanks again!!

[Lee Batchelor]

I agree whole heartedly, Mike!

[Bud2]

I am sure everyone on this Forum do their best to help anyone who asks for help and I also love my Genos. The meeting I mentioned we were at with Eileen was all about helping people and these meetings went on for quite a few years until sadly the manager of the hotel we held these meetings retired and the person who took over his job didn't really want us there anymore, plus also sadly we lost a few of the people who took part in these meetings.
Bill