Author Topic: Idea for Yamaha to have automatically more sustain on piano sounds  (Read 9950 times)

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Offline SciNote

Re: Idea for Yamaha to have automatically more sustain on piano sounds
« Reply #50 on: August 31, 2022, 05:49:33 AM »
Bob,

FYI... Press the Direct Access then press the pedal with your foot.  It will take you to a screen where you can select Pedal options for sustain. The choices are: Left, R1 or R2 in any combination or all 3 together to use the pedal for sustain.  I tried it by assigning an Electric Piano to the Left Voice.

Joe H

Okay, that is useful information.  Thank you for that.

I am unable to test this myself, as the keyboard that I have -- the PSR-E433 -- does not have this option.  On my keyboard, the sustain pedal can be set for a few different options, such as control of the arpeggio function, but when set for damper/sustain, it can only affect the right side of a split keyboard.  But that is clearly stated in the manual, whereas with the higher-end keyboards (SX600, 700, 900), the manual doesn't make this absolutely clear, though it certainly implies what you just said -- that the sustain can be set for any combination of keyboard parts, including all parts together.
Bob
Current: Yamaha PSR-E433, Roland GAIA SH-01, Casio CDP-200R, Casio MT-68 (wired to bass pedals)
Past: Yamaha PSR-520, PSR-510, PSR-500, DX-7, D-80 home organ, and a few Casios
 

Offline DerekA

Re: Idea for Yamaha to have automatically more sustain on piano sounds
« Reply #51 on: August 31, 2022, 11:14:27 AM »
1. If I can hook one keyboard up to another by MIDI, and the 2nd keyboard will get the notes played from the 1st keyboard and play exactly what I am playing on the first keyboard, then obviously the 2nd keyboard is getting information on what notes are being played.  Why can't the 2nd "keyboard" be a computer that would be monitoring those notes?  Or, does MIDI only send note-on, note-off type messages, meaning that once the note-on message is sent, there is no way to scan the keyboard and see what notes the player is still holding down?  If that's the case, then yeah, that makes it more complicated, because the computer program that I propose would then have to look for the note-off messages, as well as note-on messages, to see what is currently being played.  That would be more complicated.

That is correct - MIDI only sends on/off type messages for notes. You can't 'see' what is currently sounding at any point.
Genos
 

Offline mikf

Re: Idea for Yamaha to have automatically more sustain on piano sounds
« Reply #52 on: August 31, 2022, 11:24:16 AM »
Let me get this right, you propose linking a computer to the keyboard, presumably having some kind of app loaded on the computer to monitor the chord release, and modifying the keyboard firmware hardware to react to that computer by applying/releasing sustain appropriately ...... all to avoid learning how to use a sustain pedal, one of the simplest to use functions on the keyboard.

Mike
 

Offline SciNote

Re: Idea for Yamaha to have automatically more sustain on piano sounds
« Reply #53 on: August 31, 2022, 02:28:58 PM »
Let me get this right, you propose linking a computer to the keyboard, presumably having some kind of app loaded on the computer to monitor the chord release, and modifying the keyboard firmware hardware to react to that computer by applying/releasing sustain appropriately ...... all to avoid learning how to use a sustain pedal, one of the simplest to use functions on the keyboard.

Mike

You seem to have not read my posts.  I'm not going to state, for at least the third or fourth time, why having this "enhanced sustain" function on a keyboard could be useful, even to experienced players.  Go back and look at my 4th paragraph in Reply #46 of the thread.

Now, once again, I did not propose the original idea -- the original poster did that.  I just thought of a way that this could potentially be tested on an existing keyboard, just to see if it would sound good, without having to wait for Yamaha to come out with this function -- if they would even consider it in the first place.

When I came up with this possible test or experiment, nothing that I wrote said ANYTHING about modifying the keyboard firmware hardware.  In fact, I said that if the keyboard has a simple 2-pin jack for a simple SPST on/off switch type sustain pedal, then you would NOT have to open up the keyboard and could just hook any of the components I suggested using (to simulate the operation of a sustain pedal) to an external plug that would simply plug into the sustain jack.  But I did also include the warning that anyone trying this does so at their own risk, as they would still be working with electrical equipment and there could always be a risk of damage to equipment, voided warranties, electric shock, and other undesirable outcomes.

But DerekA went one step further -- he said that the operation of the pedal may actually be able to be simulated by a MIDI command from the computer to the keyboard.  If so, then the special app that would have to be written would only have to send the pedal-off/pedal-on messages through MIDI to the keyboard to simulate the pedal being released and re-applied, and then none of the external electronic components that I mentioned would be required at all -- except the computer, of course.

I previously thought that the app could use MIDI to scan the keyboard to see what notes are being held down, but DerekA said that cannot be done -- that the keyboard just sends note-on and note-off commands as keys are played and released.  However, such an app would still be possible...

If the app first sees note-on for C, note-on for E, and note-on for G, it could calculate that is a C chord.

If the app then sees note-off for the C, but then note-on for the C an octave higher, it would determine notes E, G, and C are being played -- still a C chord -- so don't do anything.

If the app then saw note-off for the E and note-off for the C, but then saw note-on for a D and note-on for a B, with no change to the G that was already being played -- guess what -- now, a G chord is being played (D, G, B) -- so since it's now a new chord, activate the procedure to release the sustain pedal briefly then re-apply it.

And so on...  That's a very simplified example, but you get the idea of what the app would be doing.


Of course, I wouldn't expect anyone to necessarily use such a cumbersome set-up, with the keyboard, computer, custom-app, possible other components, etc., on a permanent or professional basis.  In fact, all of this equipment hooked up in this fashion would defeat some of the possible purposes of Yamaha including such a function on a future keyboard.  This would just be an experiment for a hobbiest who has the knowledge and equipment to set something like this up -- just a way to test, with an actual keyboard instead of just in theory, whether the original idea proposed by the original poster would work and sound good.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2022, 02:45:40 PM by SciNote »
Bob
Current: Yamaha PSR-E433, Roland GAIA SH-01, Casio CDP-200R, Casio MT-68 (wired to bass pedals)
Past: Yamaha PSR-520, PSR-510, PSR-500, DX-7, D-80 home organ, and a few Casios
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Idea for Yamaha to have automatically more sustain on piano sounds
« Reply #54 on: August 31, 2022, 03:50:08 PM »
... Some people have a one-track mind   ::) ;D

Sounds like a grand projection to me!

 ;D   ;)

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Idea for Yamaha to have automatically more sustain on piano sounds
« Reply #55 on: August 31, 2022, 04:14:53 PM »
Bob,

FYI...

The Note Off command is rarely used in MIDI.  Instead Yamaha sends a Note On command with a Velocity value of zero.

The Note On message looks like this for channel 1:  90H (note on)  30H (specific note#) 23H (note velocity) 90H 30H 23H
The message sent by arranger keyboards for Note Off looks like this:   90H (note on)  30H (specific note#) 00H (note velocity) 90H 30H 00H

The actual Note Off message would look like this: 80H (note off)  30H (specific note#) 00H (note velocity) 80H 30H 00H

NOTE: H stands for Hexadecimal

Hope this helps.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html