Author Topic: recording INTRO on Tyros3: intro melody issue.  (Read 2131 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tyros2009

recording INTRO on Tyros3: intro melody issue.
« on: February 26, 2022, 12:39:34 AM »
I just learned on how to create an INTRO on TYROS3. After two days, recording intros/ endings, the 4 main variations become quite straightforward, a little complex but can be learned in 15 mins. It just take a lot of practice to become proficient at this. Of course, it requires knowledge bass playing, chords playing, etc...

I ran into a strange playback issue with the intro tune.
The intro tune is in C major. And the melody consists of all the 7 notes of the C scale: C D E F G A B).
While inside the Style Creator screen, playing back the intro sounds exactly like I recorded it (in real time). Examining the notes of the melody show all the notes are correct.
And the parameters show C  M7  (which is correct).
After saving the style with this intro. And play this intro during style play, the note B is replaced by note C !!!
. Going back inside Style Creator to play this intro, it sounds correct, B is played as B and not as C.

What did I do wrong ? How can I correct this issue ?
Any help is greatly appreciated.




Korg PA-50, Yamaha YPG-235, E443, EW410, YPT400, Tyros3, Genos, Medeli AKX10, S770
 

Online ckobu

Re: recording INTRO on Tyros3: intro melody issue.
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2022, 07:32:47 AM »
In Style creator instead of CM7 set C Maj (major).
Watch my video channel
 

Offline tyros2009

Re: recording INTRO on Tyros3: intro melody issue.
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2022, 04:05:57 PM »
I already tried that, C Maj. The result is the same.
I just got an idea: load a custom style that has INTRO and examine the settings of the melody track(s).
Then re-record the melody tune (such as G G A A B B C) and see how it sounds during style play.
BTW, one of the style that I recorded intro2 and intro3. Intro2 sounds correct with its note B, but Intro 3 does not. Still pulling my hair trying to figure out this discrepancy.
As a new bee for creating custom Intros, I found that I still have a lot to learn.
Some other issues I have:
1) how to change the instrument in Style Creator ?
2) how to record phrase 1 and 2 with pitch bend wheel ? (pitch bend is heard when I record, but not when playing back within Style Creator
I am sure there are a lot more for me to learn. Again, I hope that experts in this forum can give me guidance.
My career was in software design and development, so it was easy for me to learn complicate procedures of Style Creator. The trouble is that Yamaha did not provide full documentation for it (Groove / Dynamic tab is still a mystery for me).


Korg PA-50, Yamaha YPG-235, E443, EW410, YPT400, Tyros3, Genos, Medeli AKX10, S770
 

Offline tyros2009

Re: recording INTRO on Tyros3: intro melody issue.
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2022, 02:19:17 AM »
Quote
In Style creator instead of CM7 set C Maj (major).
  THANKS FOR THIS TIP.

This tip DOES WORK GREAT. The reason it did not work for me is: each time I select a channel for recording, CM7 mode is automatically selected, I have to select C Maj for that channel. Also need to select ROOT TRANSPOSED too for each channel.
These applies to ALL channels except RYTHM1 and RYTHM2.

Now, I can create my own intros that play in whatever key the first chord is pressed.
Korg PA-50, Yamaha YPG-235, E443, EW410, YPT400, Tyros3, Genos, Medeli AKX10, S770
 

Offline tyros2009

Re: recording INTRO on Tyros3: intro melody issue.
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2022, 02:23:05 AM »
To record an intro playing in a minor scale is a bit more challenging.
After selecting C Maj, I have to play the tune in C minor scale, but WIHOUT any black key.
For example: to record the tune:  G Ab G F Eb D C, I have to play G A G F E D C. This sounds odd while in Style Creator.
But when playing this intro during style play, it plays correct notes (G Ab G F Eb D C) if I play Cm chord.
If I start with Am chord, it plays E F E D C B A which is exactly what my intention is.


Korg PA-50, Yamaha YPG-235, E443, EW410, YPT400, Tyros3, Genos, Medeli AKX10, S770
 

Offline Joe H

Re: recording INTRO on Tyros3: intro melody issue.
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2022, 05:56:33 AM »
My guess is that when Style Creator is set to CM7 scale the B note only plays correctly when you play a 7th chord with the left hand.  This applies to the Main Sections and Fill-ins only.

The A min scale has the same notes as the C Maj scale, the root note is just different.  I've noticed that many of the styles are recorded in A min scale.  And those parts are recorded on the alternate channels 1-8.  The CASM settings are assigned to the same style 'Part' as one of the style Parts recorded in C Maj or CM7.  An example would the Phrase 2 which is recorded on channel 16 in CM7 and will play with major and 7th chords.  And channel 8 recorded in A min is assigned to play Phrase 2 also but is only triggered when a minor chord is played.

Joe H
« Last Edit: February 27, 2022, 06:19:45 AM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 
The following users thanked this post: Jeff Hollande

Offline tyros2009

Re: recording INTRO on Tyros3: intro melody issue.
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2022, 04:16:36 PM »
Hi Joe H,

thanks for your inputs. I am still a bit confused about recording intros in Am.
My current method (which works) is to select C Maj, then play this tune in Cm without black keys.
This is kind of annoying during recording and playing back within Style Creator.

Are you saying that your suggested method is: select C Maj,  record intros on channels 1 - 8 (bass, chords, phrases) ?
Could you explain this in more details so I can learn ?

Thank you very much.


 
Korg PA-50, Yamaha YPG-235, E443, EW410, YPT400, Tyros3, Genos, Medeli AKX10, S770
 

Offline Joe H

Re: recording INTRO on Tyros3: intro melody issue.
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2022, 08:29:15 PM »
As a stated above, recording in A min scale applies to Main Sections and Fill-ins ONLY.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Joe H

Re: recording INTRO on Tyros3: intro melody issue.
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2022, 08:49:54 PM »
The 8 main channels used by the styles are channels 9 - 16.  Alternate channels 1 - 8 are used for minor and/or 7th chords.  Maybe it would help if you downloaded the StyleMagic demo so you can see all 16 channels and see the way Yamaha does it by loading a Yamaha preset style in the program.

https://www.midisoft.pl/en/

Joe H
« Last Edit: February 27, 2022, 08:51:13 PM by Joe H »
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline tyros2009

Re: recording INTRO on Tyros3: intro melody issue.
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2022, 10:44:01 PM »
I was able to record intro for a minor scale tune. Set parameter to C  m, then record the tune play in Cm. Style Creator plays this tune correctly, very similar to recording a C major tune by set parameter to C Maj.
With either C Maj or C m recording, the parameter of the RYTHM2 has to be set to C Maj  or C m,  with the default C M7 setting, the recorded tune (major or minor) will not sound correct within Style Creator and during actual style play.
These are discovered by trial and error.

Style Creator has many quirks, not very user friendly and these slow down style creation process and introduce annoying issues. Here they are:
1) most tune are in major or minor scale, for some reason, the parameter for all instruments are set to C M7. User has to change the setting for EACH channel. It would make sense for the settings to be C Maj (or C m) for all (except RYTHM1 and RYTHM2). If  any channel (11-16) uses a percussion instrument, user would change it to C M7.
2) root transpose: by default all channel have fixed root, default should be set to root transpose for all except  RYTHM1 and RYTHM2
3) EXTREMELY ANNOYING ISSUE: once a channel has been recorded and later, reselected for RECORD, the setting goes back to C M7 !!! Even if one only reselect it to increase VELOCITY or to QUANTIZE.
4) channel volume: (confusing to me),  if I change the volume of a channel (of my recorded intro), this volume setting also applies to ALL 4 main variations.

I will try Style Creator on Genos and see if it get improved to be more user friendly.
During my career, I have never seen a product design in Japan to be user friendly. One typical example that I have encountered. The product use letter 'A' to create a file, 'B' to copy a file, 'C' to delete a file.



 







Korg PA-50, Yamaha YPG-235, E443, EW410, YPT400, Tyros3, Genos, Medeli AKX10, S770
 

Offline tyros2009

Re: recording INTRO on Tyros3: intro melody issue.
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2022, 10:45:01 PM »
Thinking about buying Style Magic software.
 
Korg PA-50, Yamaha YPG-235, E443, EW410, YPT400, Tyros3, Genos, Medeli AKX10, S770
 

Offline Joe H

Re: recording INTRO on Tyros3: intro melody issue.
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2022, 11:18:16 PM »
Thinking about buying Style Magic software.

FYI... You cannot record directly to StyleMagic.  You can enter notes manually in the Piano Roll but this would be difficult to do correctly.  You can load a MIDI song/style file created in a DAW like Cubase and convert it to a style. Most of all... StyleMagic is a GREAT style Editor. 

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Joe H

Re: recording INTRO on Tyros3: intro melody issue.
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2022, 11:30:15 PM »
 tyros2009,

Question:  Did you record the minor part using the standard notes for C min scale?  C, D, Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb.

I have definitely seen parts recorded in A min scale as well, but I haven't tried it.  When creating a minor Part in an alternate channel, I copy the
C Maj Part to an alternate channel in StyleMagic and then edit the notes to match the C min scale as shown above.
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline tyros2009

Re: recording INTRO on Tyros3: intro melody issue.
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2022, 12:20:58 AM »
Quote
Question:  Did you record the minor part using the standard notes for C min scale?  C, D, Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb.
Yes, I set parameter to C m, then record the intro by playing it in C minor scale. (I can play same tune in many other keys without having to transpose, obviously on piano too).
Style Creator forces me to set C m for RYTHM2 as well otherwise, the intro will sound wrong within Style Creator and during style playing.
I like to add a drum fill bar at end of the Intro(s) but don't know how to do that within Style Creator except by playing and recording a drum fill myself.
With Style Magic, this roadblock will be removed.
Korg PA-50, Yamaha YPG-235, E443, EW410, YPT400, Tyros3, Genos, Medeli AKX10, S770