Author Topic: What Makes some Yamaha keyboards sound Better than the other.  (Read 4540 times)

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What Makes some Yamaha keyboards sound Better than the other.
« on: February 25, 2022, 05:46:29 AM »
Im just Curious. I loaded a style file in both a psr s770 and Genos The style uses all the exact same voices. I used the style Discohands orignally from the Tyros 4. As i was listining caerfully. The Megavoice Brass seemed to sound slyghty more mellowed. I set the Master EQ and compressor settings to match. The Question is it Note Polyphony, and/or Tone Generator affect how all the voices sound out\? I was Curious does the psr s770 and Genos have the same Tone Generator or does the Genos have a higher more Superior one, I was just Wondering.  ;)
 

Offline Rick D.

Re: What Makes some Yamaha keyboards sound Better than the other.
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2022, 08:41:50 AM »
Keyboard Master,

It could be the DSP's that are giving you better sounding instruments. Try playing with them and see if you can improve the sound.

Rick D.

Offline Graham UK

Re: What Makes some Yamaha keyboards sound Better than the other.
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2022, 09:00:41 AM »
All keyboards out of the box are not set up to give their full potential. 
They are set to allow the customer to adjust to his/her requirements but little guidance instructions are given.
Attending a manufacturer's keyboard demonstration...why does my keyboard not sound as good as that !!!
The keyboard demonstrator has gained a lot of experience over years and apart from playing ability they know the best setting to adjust.
DGX670
 

Re: What Makes some Yamaha keyboards sound Better than the other.
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2022, 09:07:17 AM »
Ok I can try that. All though bottom line the preset voice samples are the same basically i think the Genos might have more DSP effects and stuff. ;D
 

Offline DerekA

Re: What Makes some Yamaha keyboards sound Better than the other.
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2022, 09:26:55 AM »
S770 and Genos have the same tone generator chip, the SWP70.

Genos does have a larger sample memory, so it's possible some of the voices have more layers. I would expect the MegaVoices to be pretty much identical though.

If the style came from an older keyboard, I would expect S770 and Genos both to be using the same effect algorithm, it's not as if Genos is selecting a "better" one.

If you are using different speakers that would definitely make a difference. But if it's the same speakers, Genos does have a better DAC though which gives a clearer sound

Offline Graham UK

Re: What Makes some Yamaha keyboards sound Better than the other.
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2022, 09:43:23 AM »
Keyboard Master. Make adjustments to EQ & Compression in small amounts.
Increase GAIN a little (2 or 3) if you require more output.
TEST with headphones to ensure equal listening environment.
DGX670
 

Offline overover

Re: What Makes some Yamaha keyboards sound Better than the other.
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2022, 10:09:43 AM »
Im just Curious. I loaded a style file in both a psr s770 and Genos The style uses all the exact same voices. I used the style Discohands orignally from the Tyros 4. As i was listining caerfully. The Megavoice Brass seemed to sound slyghty more mellowed. I set the Master EQ and compressor settings to match. The Question is it Note Polyphony, and/or Tone Generator affect how all the voices sound out\? I was Curious does the psr s770 and Genos have the same Tone Generator or does the Genos have a higher more Superior one, I was just Wondering.  ;)

Hi Keyboard Master,

It has already been mentioned that the Genos uses the same tone generator chip (SWP70) as the S770 (actually the Genos uses two of them, one of them mainly for expansion voices) and has much more sample memory. In addition, the Genos has significantly more Insert DSPs (Insert Effect Blocks). Certain Preset Voices may use an Insert Effect by default on the Genos but not on the S770.

The Genos also uses 32-bit DACs (digital/analog converter) for the Main outputs, the Headphones output and also for the output where the Genos speaker system is connected (8-pin terminal). PSR-S and SX models and Tyros1-5 only have 24-bit DACs.


Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: February 25, 2022, 10:12:16 AM by overover »
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Re: What Makes some Yamaha keyboards sound Better than the other.
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2022, 10:15:10 AM »
Oh I see so I guess The Genos Preset Voices has more insert effacts yamaha probably added in I used headphones when i was comparing. the sound. I Guess if the psr s770 had the same effects in the preset voices like the genos then the Brass Part would sound exactly the same.
 

Offline DerekA

Re: What Makes some Yamaha keyboards sound Better than the other.
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2022, 02:06:56 PM »
You're talking about a style here. So the DSP on the preset voices is irrelevant, if there is any DSP being used then it is defined within the style.

S770 can only assign 1 DSP to the style, whereas T4 can assign more than one. Perhaps the difference is that when playing back on S770 only one style part has the DSP applied, whereas when playing back on Genos more than one style part has DSP.

Use the mixer, Style page, to look at the DSP assignments on the style on the Genos.

Offline jwyvern

Re: What Makes some Yamaha keyboards sound Better than the other.
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2022, 06:11:10 PM »
You can always turn off a Dsp and back on again to listen to any change of sound directly and take away some of the speculation on how much contribution the dsp is making to that particular Voice quality.
John

Online Amwilburn

Re: What Makes some Yamaha keyboards sound Better than the other.
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2022, 06:56:00 PM »
the s770 most of the same sounds as the Tyros 3, minus the S.Art2 and choir voices, but the drums are from T4 (so you probably won't notice much difference in a style designed for T4). The s970 actually uses the T4 chip, minus the choir voices (except Ooh and Aah) and minus all the S.Art 2 voices; megavoices are identical.

But since the s770 is missing some of the megavoices, you are probably hearing substitutions on the s770 that you enjoy more. (s770 has 23, s970 has 30, T4 has 43, mainly because of the extra choir sounds I mentioned)

But the s770 and the Genos most definitely do *not* have the same sound palette; go ahead and put a Genos style into the s770 to see what I mean. Especially any style that has vocals

DerekA is spot on; if you use a style for a lower keyboard, of course it will sound the same on the higher keyboard (it doesn't automatically pick 'better' sounds, like he said). But if you use the style from a higher keyboard, you'll definitely hear the difference on *some* when you play on a lower keyboard (not all, because some will pick the older voices anyway)

And yes that's in addition to DSP's; guitar distortion effects in particular, can *really* change the tonal characteristics of the instrument voice,

Hope that helps?

Mark

Mark

Re: What Makes some Yamaha keyboards sound Better than the other.
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2022, 10:21:11 AM »
good to know i did do some tweeking and matched it up with the tyros 5 and i guess the genos has more effects in it and the master compressor too i beleive affects the output of certain voices its only the brass megavoice that i noticed it sounded more eq low gain higher only on thay sound. I believe different effect settings can adjust the output quality imo. Thanks for the advice. ;)
 

Re: What Makes some Yamaha keyboards sound Better than the other.
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2022, 08:00:19 PM »
Hi Keyboard Master,

It has already been mentioned that the Genos uses the same tone generator chip (SWP70) as the S770 (actually the Genos uses two of them, one of them mainly for expansion voices) and has much more sample memory. In addition, the Genos has significantly more Insert DSPs (Insert Effect Blocks). Certain Preset Voices may use an Insert Effect by default on the Genos but not on the S770.

The Genos also uses 32-bit DACs (digital/analog converter) for the Main outputs, the Headphones output and also for the output where the Genos speaker system is connected (8-pin terminal). PSR-S and SX models and Tyros1-5 only have 24-bit DACs.

Hi Chris So Does 32-bit DAC have more effect than 24-bit i was curious the difference in sound between the two. ;)
Best regards,
Chris
 

Re: What Makes some Yamaha keyboards sound Better than the other.
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2022, 10:20:46 AM »
Hi everyone back on this topic again I recorded to audio files from the same style on both keyboards on each keyboard i had the master eq parameters both the same. here are the files Listen closley to the Brass. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N26jfoFsTVg3uvuO0Bj-_I4cE9A0oEj9/view?usp=sharing      https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N26jfoFsTVg3uvuO0Bj-_I4cE9A0oEj9/view?usp=sharing
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: What Makes some Yamaha keyboards sound Better than the other.
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2022, 03:32:54 PM »
the difference is nearly insignificant, IMO. You did not specify the keyboards, therefore, there is no way for anyone to determine the overall quality of the sounds you describe. To an audience, it would not be perceptible at all. If you truly want an answer to your question, please state which keyboards you are referring make, model and year.

Gary  8)
Love Those Yammies...
 

Offline mikf

Re: What Makes some Yamaha keyboards sound Better than the other.
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2022, 04:26:40 PM »
Gary - I agree with you. Not significant. But then unless it is obviously bad, I donít really much listen to the Ďsoundí, I listen to music. Itís not about my hearing, I can hear sound differences well enough. But what I really hear is how well the song is arranged, how well itís played, can that person really sing etc.
Everyone has their own thing though that matters to them.
Mike

Re: What Makes some Yamaha keyboards sound Better than the other.
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2022, 07:00:59 PM »
the difference is nearly insignificant, IMO. You did not specify the keyboards, therefore, there is no way for anyone to determine the overall quality of the sounds you describe. To an audience, it would not be perceptible at all. If you truly want an answer to your question, please state which keyboards you are referring make, model and year.

Gary  8)
The First file is the Genos and the Second File is The s770. I was just seeing if you noticed the genos Megavoice Brass Having slightly more mellows,
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: What Makes some Yamaha keyboards sound Better than the other.
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2022, 09:34:16 PM »
Obviously, there will be some subtle difference between those two models, but personally, I cannot hear them. Of course, I'm not a good judge, being deaf as a post. :)

Good luck,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...