Author Topic: The Genos 2  (Read 15845 times)

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Mike2

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The Genos 2
« on: January 23, 2022, 12:03:35 AM »
Anyone have any ideas as to when, maybe the next genos Keyboard by Yamaha would come out.  I have the Genos, and am very happy with it.  But like a child, I am waiting for the next Keyboard by Yamaha to be out.  If someone 3 month ago would of asked me about buying the next Yamaha Genos, I would of said NO!  But enjoying the Genos I have, and thinking, what would the next one sound like?  This Covid thing has taught me allot and travelling is not my thing right now.  I Stay put, and safe, but most of all, I say, Do what you love the most about music, and that's playing it. I love the Genos I have, it's Great.  I just cannot imagine how much I would enjoy the next one. Yes cost is an issue, but at 73, and playing, enjoying what I now have ,. it would be awesome knowing the next Genos would sound and be even better than what I now have.. I figure, if I can get $3500 for my now used Genos, and a new one lets say, cost $6000, $2500 is not that high for the new one..  Used cars are selling like hot cakes, why not musical instruments??  Just excited about the prospect and eventually, the next Genos keyboard.
 
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Offline Fred Smith

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2022, 05:05:58 AM »
You won’t see a Genos 2 for at least 2 years.

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline Toril S

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2022, 11:20:45 AM »
So enjoy Genos1 and save up some more money. Genos2 will be very expensive!!
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Divemaster

  • Guest
Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2022, 11:41:37 AM »
Anyone have any ideas as to when, maybe the next genos Keyboard by Yamaha would come out.  I have the Genos, and am very happy with it.  But like a child, I am waiting for the next Keyboard by Yamaha to be out.  If someone 3 month ago would of asked me about buying the next Yamaha Genos, I would of said NO!  But enjoying the Genos I have, and thinking, what would the next one sound like?  This Covid thing has taught me allot and travelling is not my thing right now.  I Stay put, and safe, but most of all, I say, Do what you love the most about music, and that's playing it. I love the Genos I have, it's Great.  I just cannot imagine how much I would enjoy the next one. Yes cost is an issue, but at 73, and playing, enjoying what I now have ,. it would be awesome knowing the next Genos would sound and be even better than what I now have.. I figure, if I can get $3500 for my now used Genos, and a new one lets say, cost $6000, $2500 is not that high for the new one..  Used cars are selling like hot cakes, why not musical instruments??  Just excited about the prospect and eventually, the next Genos keyboard.

Yep. That says it all to me too. My wife and I will be staying put from now on.
Travel has become too unpredictable. I doubt we will ever fly or cruise again.
We'll spend the money on music instead.

I'm actually looking at the Bohm Sempra SE10.
Eye wateringly expensive, but their organ pedigree is unmatched.

About the same price as a family holiday.......

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2022, 12:48:05 PM »
New photos on internet, for Korg PA5X seem real.

Mike2

  • Guest
Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2022, 03:24:56 PM »
Well, if it's 2 years, at my age that time goes by fast. Sometimes I think that how can Yamaha improve the sound quality? It's like HD and 4K, UHD, I wear glasses and it's hard to tell the difference between 4K and UHD. But I never doubt technology, it's always finding ways to improve. I'm sure Yamaha has the next keyboard already planned out.  So yes, I will enjoy my Genos, until the next one comes out.  The better question is, how many of you Genos owners now, would trade for the next Genos 2?

Offline EileenL

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2022, 04:06:04 PM »
I would want to know what is on it first and if it is something I would use.

keynote

  • Guest
Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2022, 04:47:54 PM »
So yes, I will enjoy my Genos, until the next one comes out.  The better question is, how many of you Genos owners now, would trade for the next Genos 2?

Depends on what improvements Genos 2 has over the current Genos. Many users on this forum have requested new features and functions and so we'll see if Yamaha implements any of the aforementioned. My current wish list is 256 note polyphony (or greater) across the entire range of the keyboard. As it stands now 128 is devoted strictly to the main system voices and 128 is devoted strictly to the Expansion voices. To be able to utilize 256 notes you would have to include voices, etc., from both venues which is inconvenient and limiting by design. Never hurts to have more polyphony on hand in case your compositions, etc., are quite comprehensive and polyphony intensive. 512 note polyphony would really be the bee's knees but that's probably several years down the road in my opinion. As to when we'll see a Genos successor is anyone's guess. I'm thinking sometime in 2023 or 2024. The worldwide silicon chip shortage is still ongoing. The global pandemic has probably also been a huge setback for the production, assembly, and distribution of new products. The supply chain crisis isn't helping either needless to say.

If the Genos 2 (or whatever Yamaha decides to call it) meets or beats expectations I will gladly plunk down the necessary greenbacks and be the first in line to get one. FYI, I was probably the first one in California, USA to purchase the Genos when it was released to the public. I only live about 90 miles from Yamaha USA in Buena Park, CA so that's probably why Guitar Center had a couple right off the bat. Winter NAMM of course has been rescheduled until June 2022. Perhaps the rumors about a Korg PA-5x will be showcased? It gives Korg more time to prepare a launch if in fact the rumors are true. Competition is always a good thing. PS: I'm fully expecting Yamaha to release a 61 KEY VERSION of the Genos 2 this time around. And they'll probably sell like hotcakes. I myself perfer 76 keys or even an 88 key version if it's not too heavy.   ;)

Offline Toril S

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2022, 08:26:22 PM »
Well, yesterday I bought myself a brand new accordion!
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 
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Offline Del B

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2022, 09:29:46 PM »
Well, yesterday I bought myself a brand new accordion!
Does it have a transpose button on it Toril  :P lol

Offline J. Larry

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2022, 10:30:26 PM »
Now, that the “new” has worn off the Genos, somewhat, with fewer showcase videos displaying its features, wonder what Martin Harris and Peter Baartmans might be up to?  Maybe behind closed doors working on upgrades.  Come to think of it, what do they actually do at Yamaha, other than recording demo videos and showcasing/promoting new models at music stores?
 

Offline Toril S

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2022, 11:24:56 PM »
Del, no, unfortunately it does not! 😀😀😀😀😀
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline EileenL

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2022, 12:05:13 PM »
Martin Harris is on the design team and has a very large part in the end product.

Offline mikf

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2022, 02:59:25 PM »
Typically the sound improvement from model to subsequent model is quite modest although those improvements add up over time. So 2 or 3 models down the line it can be quite marked. But there will also be new or additional features, and maybe a change in look, so if any of these new features are important to you, that may drive you to upgrade. Or you may prefer the look, or just fancy a change to the latest and greatest. But most owners don't rush to move to the next model. The vast majority of buyers will be to people new to arrangers, people with much older models, or upgrading lesser models.
Divemaster - not traveling ever again is a pretty drastic decision. I don't know your age, and i know it may seem that way right now, but I will bet you don't hold to this once things change - and they will. Everything moves on.
Mike   
« Last Edit: January 24, 2022, 03:34:46 PM by mikf »
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2022, 04:44:37 PM »
Hi
It is about time for us to get exited again about Genos 3 :)
Before world war 3 ;D
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Wim

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2022, 05:09:19 PM »
Korg is soon coming with the new Korg PX5. The last time when  Korg brought the PX4 on the market. Not long after Genos apeared.
rgds
Wim

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2022, 05:38:00 PM »
Korg is soon coming with the new Korg PX5. The last time when  Korg brought the PX4 on the market. Not long after Genos apeared.
rgds
Wim

Are you sure that Korg is coming with Pa5x?
 

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2022, 02:25:23 AM »
Are you sure that Korg is coming with Pa5x?
Yes, it's already out. Also, about the Genos2, I hope they add the USB audio interface like they have on the PSR-SX600. It's a feature that would really be useful for me because I wouldn't have to ask for help with recording; I could just connect it to my laptop and start recording in my audio editor. I can do that on my SX600, but on the Genos, it's not there, which is a shame. Looking forward to see what they put on the Genos2!

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2022, 08:43:47 AM »
Genos2 - Rumour or True ? Pure Speculation ?  :P

Last Saturday I have been told Yamaha would come with a complete new Styles Structure ( Genos2 ) ?
I wonder ...

Best wishes, JH


Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2022, 11:45:04 AM »
Genos2 - Rumour or True ? Pure Speculation ?  :P
Last Saturday I have been told Yamaha would come with a complete new Styles Structure ( Genos2 ) ?
I wonder ...
Best wishes, JH
I don't doubt your word for one moment, Jeff. Like myself, you have a very honest face 🤣. Is your source of this information credible or speculative? Where did he or she get this information. Can you expand on this? Thanks.

For Genos 2, there is a very lengthy wish list from forum members. If Yamaha were to include all our suggestions, you wouldn't see Genos 2 for about 10 years 🙃.
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline EileenL

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2022, 12:47:24 PM »
Don't believe all you are told. Wait until we see  the new flagship then we will know for ourselves.

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2022, 02:07:37 PM »
Hi Lee :

Thank you for your comments.

My source : an old Yamaha friend of mine.
He is a member of a local Yamaha arranger club in The Netherlands.

I have no idea where this rumour or speculation comes from. I cannot check it, sorry.

Eileen is absolutely right : we have to wait for the Genos' successor presented by Yamaha.

Best regards, JH




 
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Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2022, 02:55:15 PM »
Thanks, Jeff. Good to know. At least the current Genos is still a very powerful tool. It's far from being obsolete.

As a sidebar, I just finished 6 shows in the past 10 days. In those shows, I used a lot of strings, sax, and brass voices. I don't use the arranger capabilities of the Genos for these bands. I've received 4 compliments on the sounds. People wonder "where all those brass players are on stage." Even the sound guy said he had never heard such authentic brass sounds before!
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2022, 04:08:38 PM »
Thank you for your reply, Lee.

Great to hear your 6 shows were successful !

It looks like there will come a brand new high end Yamaha arranger keyboard that will succeed the Genos, am I right ?
When will the new arranger be launched ?
How will it be called ?
How will it look like ?
Which new features and applications will be added or replaced ?

Nobody can answer these questions except Yamaha.

As usual, Yamaha will not talk about their new flagship until it is ready for distribution, IMHO.

In the meantime you are enjoying your Genos and ... all of us are expected to be patient. ;)
 

All the best, JH

« Last Edit: August 08, 2022, 04:22:03 PM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Offline stephenm52

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2022, 05:09:06 PM »
Thanks, Jeff. Good to know. At least the current Genos is still a very powerful tool. It's far from being obsolete.

As a sidebar, I just finished 6 shows in the past 10 days. In those shows, I used a lot of strings, sax, and brass voices. I don't use the arranger capabilities of the Genos for these bands. I've received 4 compliments on the sounds. People wonder "where all those brass players are on stage." Even the sound guy said he had never heard such authentic brass sounds before!

Lee, that's a great testimony to the power of the Genos, thanks for posting that comment.
GENOS, SX900, Clavinova CVP 307, Korg Pa4x.........

Steve's Genos Recordings
Steve's Gig Disks
 

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2022, 06:26:17 PM »
Thanks all. Yes, the Genos can still hold its own and really stands out among other keyboards.
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline pjd

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2022, 06:38:45 PM »
Genos2 - Rumour or True ? Pure Speculation ?  :P

Last Saturday I have been told Yamaha would come with a complete new Styles Structure ( Genos2 ) ?


Hi --

I agree with Francesco. They may be referring to the Unison and Adaptive styles in both the SX600 and DGX-670.

Thanks to Mark, I took a look at the guts of a few DGX-670 Adaptive styles. A style file is like a briefcase with different pockets. One pocket is standard MIDI, one pocket is OTS and another pocket is CASM. Adaptive styles add a new pocket named "Cmbi".

Likely, future products will have Unison and Adaptive style features. Adaptive styles will contain the extra binary stuff (Cmbi) needed to be adaptive. However, I would expect compatibility with regular (legacy) style files, too.

Nothing to be concerned about. Yamaha always seem to extend the road forward without leaving the old road system behind (to use a different analogy).

All the best -- pj
« Last Edit: August 08, 2022, 06:40:06 PM by pjd »
 

keynote

  • Guest
Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2022, 01:08:41 AM »
Here's the release timeline of the Tyros & Genos.

The Yamaha Tyros 1 was launched in 2002
The Yamaha Tyros 2 was launched in 2005
The Yamaha Tyros 3 was launched in 2008
The Yamaha Tyros 4 was launched in 2010
The Yamaha Tyros 5 was launched in 2013
And most recently, the Yamaha Genos was launched in 2017.

The biggest 'gap' between releases is of course the Tyros 5 and Genos i.e. 4 years. The Genos will be FIVE YEARS on the market this coming November. But that is probably due to the new Yamaha Japan CEO/President & the new Yamaha USA CEO/President. At Yamaha Corporation of America, Hitoshi Fukutome was the predecessor to the new and current President Tom Sumner. Sumner became President in April 2018. Hitoshi and Sumner worked together for five years prior to Sumner becoming President and during that time Hitoshi taught Sumner that showing patience and pacing the organization achieved the best results. That's probably why we haven't seen a Genos II (or new Montage) knocking at our door yet. At Yamaha headquarters in Japan, Takuya Nakata is the current Director, President, and Representative Executive Officer since June 2017. So we have at least two new high-level executives running Yamaha's products, research, and development going forward.  As a side note, Yamaha Electronic Musical Instruments, Inc.'s Location/Foundation is in Tianjin, China. As we know the Genos was manufactured in China and will probably be the same for Genos II or whatever it's called. OTOH, the Korg Pa5X is manufactured in Italy. The Pa5X has an aluminum casing and apparently, it's built like a tank. Yamaha might give the Genos II an aluminum casing which would make it heavier than the current Genos but more durable of course. We'll probably also see a 61-key Genos 2. We're going on five years now since the Genos was released but with the new President(s) at Yamaha Japan & USA, it could be quite a while before we see a Genos successor or a Montage successor for that matter. It appears Yamaha may have restructured its business model due to the advice given by Hitoshi Fukutome.  Hopefully, Yamaha will listen to Genos owners' various ideas and wishes, and perhaps the Genos successor will surpass our highest expectations... in a couple of years. Although now that Korg released the Pa5X Yamaha could put their noses to the grindstone and maybe will see Genos 2 early next year. At Winter NAMM 2023? Note: Keyboard products are usually announced at the Winter NAMM shows.🤞

All the best,
Mike 
 

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2022, 01:30:49 PM »
Thanks for the info, Mike. Very informative.

As for the case, the Tyros cases were plastic and very robust and cleanable. I traded my T5 in for the Genos and the T5 was in mint shape. Not so with the current Genos. The case and buttons are pure garbage. There's no need to go to a metal case. We don't need the extra weight, unless Yamaha still favors the home players and could care less about the gigging players. Give us a G2 with a decent plastic case. There you go, the best of both worlds 😀.
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline Gunnar Jonny

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2022, 09:43:54 PM »
At least the current Genos is still a very powerful tool. It's far from being obsolete.

Very true, and then it make me wonder why so many asking for a Genos 2.  ???
I'm going to keep my Genos and add the new PA, that way I will have the best of two brands. One very familiar, and one to explore.
It will probably not make me a better player, but at least I can pretend to be.
And, the cost will probably end up to be quite equal...  ;D ;D
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)
 

Offline spaceair

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2022, 08:18:07 AM »
the arrival of the ketros event will require many updates in genos 2  ;)
Genos 2
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2022, 10:03:57 AM »
Hi
I know that i have stuck resolutely with the Genos and if there is not a new one in the next 2 years it makes the Pax 5 look more desirable
Trade in a Genos here in UK and you could have a 76 note Korg Pax5 for Ł1500 .00
After another two years if a new Genos arrives there will be quite a bit of depreciation.
The Pax 5 has better strings and Synths and also piano than the Genos , but the saxes are a little harsh .
I found another demo on You Tube and the guy who was playing saxes  must of tweaked them and they sounded very good.
I would not be frightened of learning a new machine at 71 and there seems to be more bending towards 60s and 70s music rather than the older music which to me is played a lot. I am not saying it is bad music because it is nostalgic to many as 60s and 70s music is to me.
Older style music is good for dexterity and practice though. I do like songs like the Continental, but i do like songs like Red Right Hand from Nick Cave, the Peaky Blinders song and all the fun of 60,s70's and 80's. 8) After that rubbish woke music in my view.  ;D

What i would like to know first hand from owners of the Korg Pax 5 is how it performs with Cubase, Does it use Korg samples or is it just SF2 only. ??
The main thing, does it match up to the Genos in reality over good speakers and monitors.
How much control do you have shaping a sound??
Is there a program that goes with it to edit sounds on a computer and maybe more??

What my main concern with the Genos is that the print on the buttons is starting to wear off and that will look bad when you trade in for a new model. Every Genos will look like it has been played at thousands of gigs!!
 In two years time it will be not worth a light. The Tyros will still be shining.

Any thoughts on what i am saying?
I just wish that Yamaha would stop messing about and get Genos 3 out before multitutes may jump ship.

What about a Modex or Montage  with a Ketron expander for styles???

On the other hand i have looked at a Korg forum and still there are moans there.
Do we stick with the devil we know???   and   save a couple of thousand quid ready for two years time??



All the best
John
« Last Edit: November 06, 2022, 10:42:33 AM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2022, 11:05:32 AM »
Hi John :

Apparently the PA5X needs a huge update that has been promised for December 2022.
I think it is not the right moment to buy one, unless you are willing to wait for the necessary update of December 2022.

On the other hand ... you are so familiar with a high end Yamaha arranger ( for so many years ), I think it might be risky to buy another brand with a complete different OS.

Most of us believe a Genos2 will be available as of 7/2023 or even earlier.

Best regards, JH
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2022, 11:20:03 AM »
Hi Jeff
I am just commenting on on the pro's and Cons of this keyboard conumdrum ;D ::)
The print is wearing of the buttons :-[ For me only the start button slash has disappeared and numbers 1 and 2 on the registration buttons look thinner that the others. I am using the footpeddle more on these buttons for damage limitation.

I will stay with the Genos until next summer and see what happens as you are correct in saying that there are supposed to be big updates to the PAX5 in December so say.
I do like the sound of the Ketron and they have a SD90 expander with styles and sounds in. Put that with a Modex or Montage and that would be a belter of a keyboard setup


All the best
John :).
« Last Edit: November 06, 2022, 11:21:39 AM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2022, 11:45:50 AM »
I think, it's good to see, that some are at least considering other than Yamaha keyboard. Not that I think Yamaha is bad, it just makes the whole discussion more objective.
Speaking for me, I consider any brand that fits my needs and wishes -at the right price, of course. But it's really hard to decide. For example, my main complain about PSR-SX700 is bad keybed. But guess what: when I check in Korg forums, many Korg owners say Pa700 & Pa1000 (SX700/900 counterparts) have even worse. What a bummer... -ok, maybe they compare with new PSR-SX?  ::)

And then, there are things that are hidden at first sight. Things that we can do on current keyboard (we take them as granted), but when we switch the brand, we realize it misses that (important to us) option. That is, we usually only pay attention on things, that we miss on our keyboard.
And finally, there's a familiarity factor: for our current keyboard, we just know how to do this and that. And we all know it takes a while until we get to this point. Switching to another brand usually means fresh start -something we're maybe afraid of.
There's also our collection of styles and voices, which becomes useless...
For Korg it's said, that one can make any possible adjustment directly on keyboard itself -there's no "expansion manager" needed. That's good. But that also increases user interface complexity -which usually means, steeper learning curve.

Because money is always a concern, we can't afford to simply "try and see". And so, to avoid the risk to be disappointed, we usually stick with the brand... unless competition has an offer we just can't refuse.

Just sharing my thoughts,
Bogdan

... Red Right Hand from Nick Cave
-have it in my collection  :)
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2022, 11:47:19 AM »
The print is wearing of the buttons :-[ For me only the start button slash has disappeared and numbers 1 and 2 on the registration buttons look thinner that the others.

Might that problem influence the seling price of a second hand Genos ?

JH
« Last Edit: November 06, 2022, 11:51:01 AM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2022, 11:51:22 AM »
I'm pretty sure it does, Jeff. I mean, that's why you wash and polish your car before selling  ;)

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 
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Jeff Hollande

  • Guest
Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2022, 12:04:58 PM »
Oh yeah ... a serious problem for Genos'sellers then, I guess. :-[
Only time will tell what the price consequences are.

Regards, JH
 

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2022, 12:33:21 PM »
I can guarantee you that if you trade in a Genos with worn out or broken buttons, they can be repaired economically. The store would send that keyboard to the closest Yamaha repair center and have it fixed. Problem is, that loss will be passed on to us at a grossly marked up (or down depending on your point of view) amount of money. The store may even sell your used Genos "as is," but once again, we will take the hit for it.

I gigged the daylights out of every Tyros and PSR I owned. I would sometimes go days without dusting or cleaning the keyboards. Each time I traded them in, I was able to clean them up to near factory fresh condition. The Genos sound is among the best, but the build quality is garbage. Yamaha dropped the ball on this important detail. They have followed suit with every other company on the planet - with rare exception - and that is to put profitability ahead of quality. I never thought Yamaha would stoop that low, especially after being one of their prime customers for the past 30 years. I suppose you could say they haven't gotten cheap. They've just become fashionable - at least that's how they and others like them would rationalize their slip in quality.
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2022, 12:45:56 PM »
Hi Lee
This is what worries me now that the quality of the Genos build has gone down.
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2022, 02:16:27 PM »
Thanks, John. It amazes me how Yamaha can produce ground-breaking samples but encase them in such a delicate container, when for pennies more, they could make the container just a robust as the earlier models without adding an extra amount of weight. The technology is there, however, the willingness is not. I blame that on the "new generation thinking" (or lack thereof). All the original Japanese managers have retired or died and left their legacy in the hands of overentitled amateurs. Yamaha is not the first Japanese company to have drifted into these rough waters.

I really hope they rethink the Genos 2 container and admit they dropped the ball on Genos 1.
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline rphillipchuk

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2022, 03:00:00 PM »
Thanks, John. It amazes me how Yamaha can produce ground-breaking samples but encase them in such a delicate container, when for pennies more, they could make the container just a robust as the earlier models without adding an extra amount of weight. The technology is there, however, the willingness is not. I blame that on the "new generation thinking" (or lack thereof). All the original Japanese managers have retired or died and left their legacy in the hands of overentitled amateurs. Yamaha is not the first Japanese company to have drifted into these rough waters.

I really hope they rethink the Genos 2 container and admit they dropped the ball on Genos 1.

Well said !
Yamaha DGX-670 connected to a Yamaha MW12 Mixer connected to a pair of Yamaha MSP10's + Yamaha SW10 Subwoofer using Songbook+.

MacBook Pro 32 Gigs Ram, 1 Terrabyte SSD

www.midisafe.com
www.yamahastylesonly.com
 
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Offline mikf

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2022, 03:29:56 PM »

Because money is always a concern, we can't afford to simply "try and see"………
We all have different circumstances, and can tend to project our own limitations onto other people. But money is not going to be an issue for many arranger players. Because, with trade ins the cost of changing might be just 2 or 3 thousand, and if you had the previous model for a few years, only equivalent to spending about $500 a hundred a year for your hobby. Not unusual in today’s world. Ask a golfer what they spend annually on golf… dwarfs this.
I think the effort required for re-learning, the general hassle of change and how much the more recent improvements matter individually, might be bigger obstacles than the money for a lot of people.
I know I will not change because there is no equivalent to the CVPs in the Ketron and Korg range, but more because I really can’t be bothered with the hassle. So the sax, or piano or the editing might be a tiny bit better …..so what, do those really make playing it that much better and worth the effort….not for me.
The money would be a very minor consideration if I really wanted to have the latest and greatest.  And I think that may be true for more people than you think Bogdan.
Now if I was still gigging and the current keyboard was unreliable, or had annoying limitations, my position might be different. Or if I was heavily into recording and music production, again my view of feature and performance limitations  might be different and a big driver, despite the hassle. But truth is, despite the preponderance of posts here covering these shortcomings on the Yamaha, these actually represent quite a small proportion of arranger players.
Mike
« Last Edit: November 06, 2022, 04:10:30 PM by mikf »
 

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2022, 05:05:35 PM »
All good points. Mike. With regard to the core voices like piano, e.piano, and organs - they should be top of the line in such an expensive arranger. It's unacceptable for the marketing people to sit back and say, "We're giving them top of the line wind, brass, and strings so it's all right to skimp on the core voices."

I'm good friends with Shania Twain's piano player from years ago. He's also been my teacher on occasion. He once said, "If you sound lousy on stage, you won't play well." Here I have the best arranger on the planet, two of the best speakers, and some of the best venues - and yet, there are times I can't a decent piano sound. Sure, it's sometimes the fault of the room and background noise, but I'll never get a decent sound with substandard pianos.

Don't get me wrong. The Genos pianos are not unusable. They are, however, poor for what we're being asked to pay. Nord fixed this issue years ago in their Electro series by adding 1 GB of memory dedicated to the pianos. Why not Yamaha? What would it cost?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2022, 05:07:13 PM by Lee Batchelor »
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline mikf

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2022, 05:19:03 PM »
Like I said Lee, I might have a different view if I was gigging, as you do. Having said that though, where I would disagree with your teacher is that I played much worse pianos than the Genos when I was gigging, and think I played pretty well. I think a more correct statement might be that you won’t be happy playing, if you feel the equipment is sub standard compared to available alternatives.
But nowadays, not gigging, if I want a better piano I just walk down to my drawing room where I have a Shigeru which has amazing tone and feels like playing on silk. But I don’t always do that because then I can’t turn on the backing band! Nothing is perfect.
Mike
 

Offline BogdanH

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #45 on: November 06, 2022, 06:41:23 PM »
..All the original Japanese managers have retired or died and left their legacy in the hands of overentitled amateurs. Yamaha is not the first Japanese company to have drifted into these rough waters...
Not sure if it's because of "amateurs" -I tend to think it's all about fast profit and greed. And so, "Made in ..." label means nothing nowadays. Similar is true for brand name, which is many times only a deceiving factor.

..amateurs... hahaha, you really made me laugh Lee -you earned a beer for that  ;D

Bogdan
PSR-SX700 on K&M-18820 stand
Playing for myself on Youtube
 

Offline mikf

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #46 on: November 06, 2022, 10:28:20 PM »
Bogdan, I worked at high levels in corporate America, and never once saw 'fast profit and greed' being a driver.
You all seem to have a picture of top executives sitting around looking at how customers can be shortchanged so the the executives/ shareholders can hugely benefit. It just isn't like that. The drivers are things like survival, market expectations, Wall Street expectations, competitors strategies , correcting earlier mistakes.....Yamaha profits are actually pretty trivial compared to companies like Apple. But even Apple spent a lot of time 'on the ropes', hanging on to survival.
Mike

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #47 on: November 06, 2022, 10:50:55 PM »
All good stuff, guys.

I guess I'm thinking about the post WWII era when the Japanese companies first released their products to North America in the 50s and 60s. I remember the common feeling was "all the cheap junk comes out of Japan." If you want quality, you buy American. That was true until the 70s.

In the 70s, if you wanted quality and innovation, you bought Japanese. They improved all the American technologies of the day and produced the very best products on the planet. People in my generation got used to that until those original Japanese execs retired or died and left their legacy to a whole different mindset. If the old fellas and gals from Japan could do it, the current people should be able to do it better because they aren't picking up the pieces from a world war, and they have an exceptional technological advantage. Tell me what's holding them back 😀. I bet I know...the thirst 🍺 for $$$$$$$$$$$$$.
"Learn" your music correctly, then "practice" it. Don't practice mistakes because you'll learn them.
 

Offline Amwilburn

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #48 on: November 07, 2022, 12:34:38 AM »
Korg is soon coming with the new Korg PX5. The last time when  Korg brought the PX4 on the market. Not long after Genos apeared.
rgds
Wim
Depends on your definition of "not long after". The Pa4x appeared in Western Canada in May of 2015, the Genos in Dec of 2017. I wouldn't consider 2.5 years soon, per se. But I also don't think Yamaha will wait as long this time; we might get a stopgap update of the sx700/sx900 (like an sx705/sx905) update approx 1.5 years before the next Genos (that's how I correctly guessed when the Genos *was* coming; the stopgap upgrade to the PSRs970, the s975, launched in April of 2018. 1,5 years before Genos was announced. The last time there was a stopgap (PSR2000/2100) the 2100 ended up being 1.5 years before the Tyros 1 was announced.

Bogdan, I worked at high levels in corporate America, and never once saw 'fast profit and greed' being a driver.
Mike, mostly true, until Boeing was taken over by McDonell-Douglas management, which gave us the 737Max disasters. As a huge fan of the F15 (but why on earth was the F15E strike eagle pressed into a fighter bomber role, when the variable geometry Grumman F14 was *right there*), F18, and AV8 Harrier, i can't express just how disappointed I was. Of *course* pitot tubes get clogged @$!@%!@$. What cockamanie coders thought they wouldn't???


...For example, my main complain about PSR-SX700 is bad keybed. But guess what: when I check in Korg forums, many Korg owners say Pa700 & Pa1000 (SX700/900 counterparts) have even worse. What a bummer... -ok, maybe they compare with new PSR-SX?  ::)
*snip*
There's also our collection of styles and voices, which becomes useless...
I can confim, PA700/1000 keys feel a lot like PSRe keys. PSRsx keys, *do* feel nicer, but the clicking is a really weird issue. However, PA4x/PA5x keys feel amazing (better than Genos, imo). But as I've stated before, I *need* my custom styles and registrations. Which means I'll always have a Yamaha (or 6)... doesn't mean I won't get something else in addition.

Incidentally, the PSRe473 keys feel better than the other PSRe keys.

Mark

Offline mikf

Re: The Genos 2
« Reply #49 on: November 07, 2022, 01:28:17 AM »
The same thing ultimately happened to Japanese companies that hurt the American companies - their labor costs became high compared to their neighbors in China and Korea, so they started outsourcing the manufacturing to them.
Interestingly the huge improvement in Japanese manufacturing quality though the 50s  and 60s was mostly driven not by the Japanese themselves but by an American called Edwards Deming. I guess you could say Japanese management top down were smart enough to buy into his theories and make it almost into a religion. I went to several courses myself on Demings theories on quality systems.   
Mike
« Last Edit: November 07, 2022, 02:00:46 AM by mikf »