Author Topic: Midi2Style help!  (Read 720 times)

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Offline Des O

Midi2Style help!
« on: January 14, 2022, 09:57:33 PM »
Anyone had this issue, I am trying to create a style for genos in Midi2Style. Everything loads and plays fine but when I save and check its all out of tune! No matter what midi I use. Any else had this? Thanks
 

Offline ckobu

Re: Midi2Style help!
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2022, 10:08:16 PM »
It’s hard to say where you went wrong because you don’t say exactly what’s wrong with Style. Watch these two videos, maybe they will help you.
Part One
https://youtu.be/XZl1RjD5PEI
Part Two
https://youtu.be/lXRVyJSSMiY

Offline Des O

Re: Midi2Style help!
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2022, 10:25:45 PM »
Hi Casper, I've watched all you tutorials on this, the midi sound perfect on a daw to start, loaded on midi2style sounds perfect. When its converted its all off key!
Could it be the channels I associate?
 

Offline ckobu

Re: Midi2Style help!
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2022, 10:31:42 PM »
That's right, maybe channels are a problem. See Part One in 05:54 seconds.

Offline Des O

Re: Midi2Style help!
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2022, 11:31:42 PM »
Hi Ckobu,
Just loaded the file in band lab, it show 10 tracks 1-10. Ive seen that genos uses 10 drum and above for the rest, do i need to move the tracks to channels for the genos? 10,11,12,13 etc?
 

Offline Des O

Re: Midi2Style help!
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2022, 11:41:28 PM »
Perhaps I should look at the style whats playing on genos mixer via midi2style. Sounds on file are gm or gx format showing on midi2style. Confused as to why it goes out of tune when converted tune style.
 

Offline ckobu

Re: Midi2Style help!
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2022, 11:48:27 PM »
Hi Ckobu,
Just loaded the file in band lab, it show 10 tracks 1-10. Ive seen that genos uses 10 drum and above for the rest, do i need to move the tracks to channels for the genos? 10,11,12,13 etc?

You do not need to pre-adjust the channels of the MIDI file. If the bass plays on 2 channels of MIDI, you sets it to Voices that it is bass (05:54) and midi2style will set it to 11 channels of Style.
Watch my video channel
 

Offline pjd

Re: Midi2Style help!
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2022, 06:34:34 PM »
Hi Des --

When you say it's all out of tune, you're not hearing the notes in the key (scale) that you expect?

An area to investigate --

The original MIDI data is in a particular key (C major, D minor, whatever). The style's source root and source chord need to be set to match the incoming MIDI data. You should probably check the NTR/NTT settings, too.

All of this is described in the Genos Reference Manual, in the section "SFF Edit—Making Style File Format Settings".

This part of style creation is a little bit technical, but it's important. Please keep experimenting. Once you understand this stuff, you're good to go for life!  :D

All the best -- pj
 
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Offline Des O

Re: Midi2Style help!
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2022, 03:45:46 PM »
What I am saying is,
I have a midi in C
Loaded onto Midi2Styles
Selected parts, all play fine, checked all settings as required, all fine.
When I convert, the parts are off key, out of tune, sometime octave higher/lower. Melodies are not there just odd notes, I thought they would be in key of C at least, and this is before its even loaded on Genos. Whoever can develop a easy simple professional midi/style converter will make a fortune, no wonder Yamaha gave us a style creator in Genos, but that again is no easy task if your not up on your music technically. Spent the last 3 days trying to do a simple style with all kinds of software but no luck.
I have done everthing as Caspers tutorials but still no luck.
Something in the conversion process?
Driving me mad!
 

Offline ckobu

Re: Midi2Style help!
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2022, 04:02:27 PM »
I'm sorry you didn't get a good result. I said this at the end of the second video.

Quote
10:57
To conclude, I would like to give a few tips to anyone who wants to do rhythms this way.
11:03
For a good Style you need to have a quality MIDI.
11:07
Without that, there is not much luck because you cannot make a fine cake with bad ingredients.
11:13
The midi2style program will do the basic part of the job but additional rhythm editing is inevitable.
11:20
So don’t expect everything to be resolved in a few minutes, you will need a lot of knowledge and patience.

Watch my video channel
 
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Offline Des O

Re: Midi2Style help!
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2022, 04:19:09 PM »
 Casper your tutorials are fine, I've even tried a professional midi file I bought from do-de but no luck. As you say its hit and miss.
We need a major player in the styles area, Yamaha seem to have no user support in this area. They should do more like the song lists they have. Maybe even develop the midi to style converter on keyboards, this would be a major selling point, I think they dropped the ball on this.
Most everything is user driven, without we would be lost. Thanks again.

Offline EileenL

Re: Midi2Style help!
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2022, 04:45:48 PM »
What ever programme you use converting Midi Files to Styles takes a lot of work and then may not work that well without a lot of editing. As we know there are only certain notes that can be used in a style. Chord and Pad CEGB and Bass and Phase CDEGAB because the style is based on CMaj Chord.
 
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Offline Des O

Re: Midi2Style help!
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2022, 08:22:00 PM »
I'm sorry you didn't get a good result. I said this at the end of the second video.

Just as a thought, let say I could copy midi tracks into cakewalk say as a new midi, assigned to genos channels, voices etc as per your cakewalk midi to genos tutorial. (XG Works) Then save and use that new midi in midi2style? Maybe then it would transfer correct?
 

Offline ckobu

Re: Midi2Style help!
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2022, 09:13:59 PM »
That's a good idea. I would even recommend such an approach to prepare MIDI channels in Cakewalk (XGWorks).
Send me one of your midi and his project (m2s) to take a look.
Watch my video channel
 
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Offline Des O

Re: Midi2Style help!
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2022, 09:32:24 PM »
I've not started this yet, but as you know more than me about it I will give it a try. I need to familiarise myself with XG and then set it up with Genos, then get the right channels for genos, and use the genos instruments on the midi. Transfer to Midi2Style, if all OK then make a process if it works. May take some time! Lol. The original midi will be one I've been trying to convert, plays well through Genos via Midi2Style so should sound nice, and I can see what instruments genos has picked (Genos song display) to play back so I can select via XG for the new midi. I will send you my results soon as I can. New project then for me next week!
 

Offline Des O

Re: Midi2Style help!
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2022, 09:56:52 PM »
That's a good idea. I would even recommend such an approach to prepare MIDI channels in Cakewalk (XGWorks).
Send me one of your midi and his project (m2s) to take a look.

Hi Casper, I've set this up according to your tutorial. Now when I set the midi file in Genos it does not play back so I can record in Cakewalk as it plays. It records keyboard but cannot record the midi file.
There must be a way to do this, I've asked you as you know a lot more than me about daws and midis. I want to basically remap a midi file live as it plays from Genos. Can it be done? Otherwise style creation is the only way and that's harder to create.
 

Offline ckobu

Re: Midi2Style help!
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2022, 11:35:09 PM »
I'm not sure I understood your question. You want to play Genos and record it as a MIDI file?
This is done in this way as in this video.

https://youtu.be/vjqUzC4DqnI
Watch my video channel
 

Offline Des O

Re: Midi2Style help!
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2022, 07:08:12 AM »
No not play it, just let a midi file play and record it. The genos does not let you when you press record on cakewalk. It disables, but you can play the keys OK. So basically let the genos play a loaded midi file without your intervention.
 

Offline ckobu

Re: Midi2Style help!
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2022, 10:12:51 AM »
What you describe happens when you try to record demo songs from Genos. Demo Song is protected and that’s why it happens.
Watch my video channel
 

Offline Jørgen

Re: Midi2Style help!
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2022, 10:53:23 AM »
Hi

Please read
http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/midi2style/m2s_mus_prob.htm

and
at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/midi2style/help.htm
read the text in section "The Conversion and Save Settings Window"
Experimenting with the conversion settings will often solve the problems you describe.

Regards
Jørgen
The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha
- since 1999
 
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Offline Des O

Re: Midi2Style help!
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2022, 01:57:32 PM »
Hi Jorgen,

I've already been through that already, still no luck.
This leads me onto to the actual quality of the midi itself may be the problem.
Hence trying to re-record it so to speak. Anyway after all my research and searching for an resolution to this I may have found a simple easy solution staring me in the face all the time!
I will post how I get on, otherwise its style creator.
Thanks.
 

Offline Jørgen

Re: Midi2Style help!
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2022, 03:04:12 PM »
Hi

You are probably right about the MIDI file itself.

Remember that "melody line" channels must not be used in style files.

Some ideas: My "Style Creatio Course" starting at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/articles/style_1.htm
The entire course (pdf file for download) is at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/articles/style_creation_course.pdf

Jørgen
The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha
- since 1999
 
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Offline Des O

Re: Midi2Style help!
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2022, 02:56:45 PM »
Hi Guys,
Firstly thanks for all your suggestions and help with this, I'm not beaten just yet. Anyway I loaded the midi file into Genos in midi song creator, and altered the instruments etc, saved the file. Loaded this into Midi2Style as instructions. Now I thought this would cure the problem as it contains Genos info, but no, everything going fine Intro, Part A then converted to check, intro perfect! Part A all over the place out of tune, wrong notes so I am baffled after trying everything on that. Looked at creating it myself on Genos, editing parts in song creator on Genos as casper bassline midi edit, perhaps I could do that for other channels but I am going back to plan A. I have downloaded all the instructions, possible problems, watched the videos over again etc. Well get there or just give up!
Casper knows too much, so many of his videos are very informative, keep it up! :) Thanks Jorgen for your help as well.