Author Topic: Where To in 2022?  (Read 9559 times)

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Offline Joe W

Where To in 2022?
« on: January 11, 2022, 12:06:09 AM »
The bill to renew PSR Tutorial for another year comes due in less than two weeks.  It will cost me $3000. Is PSR Tutorial still worth it?  I have a dedicated server that supports not only this forum but also the main PSR Tutorial web site.  Roger spends a lot of time taking care of the forum and I spend my time taking care of the main web site.  Resources I have created on the main web site bring in the revenue to pay the bills.  But maybe the content is getting old and people are no longer interested.  I know I am getting old and finding it more difficult to keep up with things.  I'd like some input from members about moving into the future.

Should we take on another Year?  Do we need more "Lessons"?  Is the PSR Performer section worth keeping?  Maybe performers would just as soon simply use the forum to post their songs temporarily and a permanent page listing is not valuable.  Should archived performers be merged with current performers?  We have a lot of styles available.  Do we need additional new style collections?  What is needed to make the PSR Tutorial "better"?  Will new users continue to stumble on to the PSR Tutorial and discover the resources available here and in the forum?  Any feedback on these questions would certainly be appreciated.
-- Joe Waters
PSR-SX900
PSR Performer Page
 
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Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2022, 04:09:23 AM »
Dear Joe,
I'm speaking for myself, but I'd have to think that many other members of the forum have to feel the same way. I think you and Roger do a stellar and amazing job keeping things going with the web and the forum. As you know I've contributed in the past, and am willing to do so now to help defray the costs incurred with the site. I hope other members would feel that way too... same as PBS Television, NPR radio, and the different news papers/ blogs, magazines that people subscribe. I truly wish that we had some corporate participation from Yamaha for this site that means so much to so very many.

I wish I could come up with some kind of constructive suggestions. I visit the forum at least once a day on the average... sometimes more, and have benefitted from music, styles, specific help for a specific situation, enjoyed the performances from so many members. I've said it before, the design of the site with all it's excellent and in-depth content for so many keyboards, players at many different levels is nothing short of miraculous. In ways... the old cliche "heading cats" might apply here, and somehow you and Roger keep out the riff riff, and keep things available and organized in an almost perfect way. Even all the old performances, lessons, recommendations, musical sources, styles, are well archieved so that a quick search brings up more answers than any other source.

I know Roger spends more than a full time job on this. And I know you do too. At the very least, you really should hear from the members about how important and appreciative we all are to you and the other moderators for an almost flawless job. I'm sure it gets old, especially with you both doing what would usually demand a team in a vacuum where this effort goes unappreciated. Others may have suggestions on how to improve things, but I think everything is great the way it is. I hope we'll all help with some $ for the expenses knowing how valuable this is to us every single day.  Gratefully and sincerely, John

Offline EileenL

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2022, 01:05:44 PM »
Hello Joe,
  I have asked myself the same question on whether it is worth keeping my forum going. There are not many new keyboards coming along and most seem to have mastered what they want to do with theirs so questions have dropped off. There is so much on things like You Tube now giving very good tuition on using these newer keyboards where you can also ask questions and get answers. Seems to be the way things are going now. As for styles I think most people have large stores of these and doubt they are used much. We all seem to use about twenty of our favourite ones for our performances. Lots of people now us Multi Tracking to create songs where they don't use styles at all.
  Many people are now putting there performances on Face Book now so I find not that many being posted on forums. Alas things are changing and the pandemic seems to have changed some peoples minds on what they now want. There are a lot of live streams now of people performing for us where you can interact with many friends as you listen. This came about on Face Book to try and cheer people up during Lock Down an has become very popular.
  It is a hard decision to make but personally feel things have changed over the last couple of years and Face Book groups are taking the place of some forums.
 
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Offline chesterkins

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2022, 02:59:19 PM »
Hi Joe
First of all let me thank you and Roger for the stellar work you both do in the upkeep of this site
Many of the observations you make are correct  The world is changing and so is the keyboard world
But for me one thing remains    Community
You guys have built a home for people who have one thing in common  Playing keyboards
I have been a member for almost 20 years and this site is my go to place if I need advice or help on any topic relating to my keyboards from 740 to Genos
Sure there is You tube  and other sources but this site is where it all comes together
I also love to browse around the site at least once a week to see what is new
I agree some of you seniors may wish to revamp the site Take out some old wood Look what is not used very often now a days
BUT please keep the community together  In this day and age it is more important than ever
 
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Offline GregB

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2022, 04:59:40 PM »
Joe,

Thank y'all for all of your work on this website!

Forum - yes, definitely it's useful and relevant, especially given the community as chesterkins mentioned.

One thing I'd recommend is an improved Styles database.  You have tens of thousands of styles on this website, but finding one for a particular use is challenging!  Make it highly searchable (author, name/comments, time signature - maybe including actual time signature rather than just the coded time signature, associated song names, supported keyboards, etc.), even a JavaScript-based "recommend" tool would be awesome (there are already JavaScript-based drum machines out there for preview listening), and allow people to comment on and "like" or rate particular styles.

- Greg
PSR-S950
PSR-520
1920 Bush & Lane Upright Grand
 
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Offline RONBO

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2022, 07:44:20 PM »
Joe,

We need you and this forum.

Here's a suggestion to perhaps keep the site going.  Let all members (3800+) contribute $2 each. That way we can all say we helped and nobody will go broke in the process.

I think you could use more assistance. You and Roger seem to be spending a lot of time maintaining the forum. There are other moderators as well who just might be getting a little weary; They too should be honoured for their contribution.

What say you, members?

Can you help out monetarily or otherwise?

regards

Ron
PSR Performer Page                                  IT'S EASY TO BE THE SHIP'S CAPTAIN WHEN THE  SEAS ARE CALM

Proud Genos owner

Former boards  PSR2100, PSR 910, TYROS 4 and TYROS 5
 
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Offline Toril S

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2022, 10:37:23 PM »
Dear Joe! For me, this forum and the PSR Tutorial site is home. I visit many times a day. I have learned so much since joining, and gotten so many helpful friends here! This is the best forum ever. Period! I use all resources here, styles, songs, Performer's section, lessons, and I think all have their value and must be continued.
I think keeping things just as they are is the best.
But you and Roger work very hard, so do other moderators too. Maybe a good idea to involve more people to work on the pages?
As for interest in the different resources I think that will vary, and that is natural. Sometimes people talk much about packs, other times they want to collect styles or listen to songs. I will gladly contribute to cover the running costs of the PSR Tutorial, and so will many others. A membership fee is all right with me, but maybe not so easy to administrate when members are from all over the world? This forum is heaven sent, so please continue it, or a lot of us will be lost in the desert, devastated!
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 
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Offline stephenm52

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2022, 11:10:52 PM »
Joe,

As always I have appreciated the work you've done here and of course I know Roger plays a vital role here too.  I may not visit the site on a daily basis but I frequent it several times per week.  I would gladly pay a subscription fee to see the site continue on.


As a side note I've made a number of friends here and we keep in contact on a regular basis.  There are even friends I've  who are no longer with us they have passed on.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2022, 11:12:16 PM by stephenm52 »
GENOS, SX900, DGX670, Clavinova CVP 307, Korg Pa4x.........Pa5x-88? ⁉️ NO I'll Pass

Steve's Genos Recordings

Steve's Gig Disks
 
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Offline mikf

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2022, 04:31:16 AM »
Joe - you created this forum, and it has become a true focal point for the arranger community. Yes, things have changed, especially in the last few years, but its relevance clearly continues as evidenced by the fairly busy user base. It is your baby, and along with Roger, it is your your efforts that keep it alive.
However, you and Roger cannot go on supporting this forever, and at the end of the day, it is really your decision if it should continue. And it is even possible that the decision is taken out your hands by events, where one or both of you are unable to continue.
Could some things be changed on the site, - probably but do you really want to take on that work at this time of your life?
You might want to consider running it for another year while you find someone who wishes to take it over, and transition to them. Then it becomes someone else’s decision about making changes, and the ensuing work.
You could of course just keep running it until you cannot - at which point it precipitously ends. That would be sad.

Mike

 
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Offline Colin D

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2022, 08:34:47 AM »
Hi Joe, Roger,

It will be a sad day if the site ends.  I wonder if some of it (Forumn) could also move to Fakebook too?  It won't be as good as this community.  But better than loosing it altogether.

Kind Regards

Colin
Previous, Technics E44, E66, U90, G7, GX7 G100, Tyros 2, Tyros 5, now Genos,

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNozAL1Whf-t4TJY5wPK57Q
 
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Offline EileenL

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2022, 12:59:34 PM »
Hi Colin,
  There are quite a few good sites on Face Book already and some really good instructional videos on You Tube of the newer keyboards. Lots of people also giving live performances from professionals to home players. I think this is the reason that a lot of forums are very quite now.
 
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Offline janamdo

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2022, 07:26:16 PM »
The bill to renew PSR Tutorial for another year comes due in less than two weeks.  It will cost me $3000. Is PSR Tutorial still worth it?  I have a dedicated server that supports not only this forum but also the main PSR Tutorial web site.  Roger spends a lot of time taking care of the forum and I spend my time taking care of the main web site.  Resources I have created on the main web site bring in the revenue to pay the bills.  But maybe the content is getting old and people are no longer interested.  I know I am getting old and finding it more difficult to keep up with things.  I'd like some input from members about moving into the future.

Should we take on another Year?  Do we need more "Lessons"?  Is the PSR Performer section worth keeping?  Maybe performers would just as soon simply use the forum to post their songs temporarily and a permanent page listing is not valuable.  Should archived performers be merged with current performers?  We have a lot of styles available.  Do we need additional new style collections?  What is needed to make the PSR Tutorial "better"?  Will new users continue to stumble on to the PSR Tutorial and discover the resources available here and in the forum?  Any feedback on these questions would certainly be appreciated.

I think you can better host a website in the Netherlands : its probably cheaper ?
https://www.keurigonline.nl/
« Last Edit: January 12, 2022, 07:29:05 PM by janamdo »
 

Offline OmbDave

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2022, 07:38:52 PM »
Dear Joe, I whole heartedly endorse all the previous posts, this forum is invaluable to all of us members. I would also agree with Ron that $2 is very little to ask us all to give and even as Stephen said a $2 subscription each year would still be wonderful value. Please continue with the forum if you are still enjoying it, I’m sure there must be something we can all contribute to ensure the continuance of this magical site.
Kind regards
Dave Melia
Cheshire, England
Dave
Yamaha Genos
Korg i3 (2021)
Yamaha Tyros3
Roland Alpha Juno
Pearl Drums, Paiste & Avedis Zildjian Cymbals
HK Audio Polar10
 
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Offline adrianed

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2022, 09:01:12 PM »
Hi Joe and everyone
 I also would like the PSR Tutorial Forum to continue as it is
I also think we should at least cover the cost somehow
I propose a yearly membership payment from everyone, I think this would be better than some folks donating and others contributing nothing, the reason I say this is because donations from a few probably leave a large gap to be covered by Joe, if everyone paid something in the whole cost could be covered
The amount we pay needs to be enough to cover the variations in membership, the membership might go down a little when a membership fee is required so this needs to be taken into account
I think two dollars is cutting it too fine, the amount needs to be realistic
Adrian
« Last Edit: January 12, 2022, 09:07:28 PM by adrianed »
 
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Offline okeedokee

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2022, 09:19:29 PM »

  Dear Joe  -  I visit each and every day.  Don't use it as much, because my PSR 950 is old hat and I'm 87.      Like Ron I'd be more than happy to contribute to keep it going.  - Norm
 
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Offline RONBO

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2022, 09:25:57 PM »
I think two dollars is cutting it too fine, the amount needs to be realistic

I agree . I only mentioned $2 to illustrate that it wouldn't take a lot of money if EVERYONE kicked in little. Gee. $2 won't even buy a cup of coffee at Starbuck's.

If small contribution scares people off, well then, do we need them?

Most will contribute; some will walk. So be it.

Sooner or later, we're going to have to face the music.


regards

Ron
PSR Performer Page                                  IT'S EASY TO BE THE SHIP'S CAPTAIN WHEN THE  SEAS ARE CALM

Proud Genos owner

Former boards  PSR2100, PSR 910, TYROS 4 and TYROS 5
 
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Offline hammer

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2022, 09:35:02 PM »
I have been a member of both Eileen's and Joe's forums since 2006.  Without either one of them I probably would have given up playing arranger keyboards.  The members of these forums were far more helpful than I find the current Youtube of Facebook videos to be.  Not only that, but often I would post a question and within minutes there would be an answer posted. 

I know this has changed.  Many members have aged out or died and it seems like the newer members just don't follow a lot of the posts anymore. 

Anyway,  I truly hope both Eileen and Joe keep these forums going for the benefit of all of us.

Deane
 
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Offline vlbrgt

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2022, 10:04:10 PM »
What I can gather from Joe's writing is that it is not the bill that is in question.
Quote
Resources I have created on the main web site bring in the revenue to pay the bills
He asks for feedback about all the extra's that the website/forum has to offer. Are these extra's still needed ?
Quote
Do we need more "Lessons"?  Is the PSR Performer section worth keeping?  Maybe performers would just as soon simply use the forum to post their songs temporarily and a permanent page listing is not valuable.  Should archived performers be merged with current performers?  We have a lot of styles available.  Do we need additional new style collections?  What is needed to make the PSR Tutorial "better"?  Will new users continue to stumble on to the PSR Tutorial and discover the resources available here and in the forum?

The forum is for me the place to be if I have questions about my keyboard, or to answer at questions from other users.
For me this is the best forum I know about Yamaha keyboards. Thank you Roger.
The website (Utilities - Volbragt) is the place where I can publish my software programs (MixMaster, PadMakers, OpenText), and make them available for all the forum users. My thanks to Joe for making this possible.

I almost don't use any of the other extra's available at PsrTutorial.
This is my use of the website/forum, and I'm sure other users would have different preferences.

Regards
Etienne
« Last Edit: January 12, 2022, 10:11:52 PM by vlbrgt »
If plan A doesn't work, don't forget that the alphabet has 25 more letters.
Volbragte@telenet.be
http://Psrtutorial.com/MB/volbragt.html
Genos
 
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Offline mikf

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2022, 10:55:14 PM »
Yes, many of you are all missing the point. This is not a plea for money ( although that is always helpful). This is about whether the website has a place going forward given all the other social media options.
Joe mentions the money only because that sparks a clear decision point. 
Mike

Offline Stuart L

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2022, 11:54:40 PM »
Like Deane I have been a member of this forum, as well as Eileen’s, for some years and have benefitted enormously from them both. The Yamaha manuals are ok but they seem to be written for people who already know how to play and are little help in explaining how to use all these features in a musical context. This is where the forums have been so helpful. Indeed I would have given up where it not for the help I have received.
I very much hope that the forums can continue but whatever happens a big thank you to Joe, Roger and Eileen and all the other moderators etc. for all your hard work.
I can offer little in the way of practical assistance but if an annual subscription would help I would be very happy with that.
A lot of people I know refuse to have anything to do with Facebook. I don’t use it myself but that’s more to do with the fact I find it confusing so I personally hope things can continue as at present.
Regards
Stuart L


 
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Offline jtrue

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2022, 01:22:06 AM »
For my part the most valuable types of information found on the site are tips and techniques for operating the keyboard and exploiting its features, tips about gigging, reviews and recommendations regarding auxiliary equipment of all types, and access to lead sheets.  I like to hear of others' experiences and appreciate the sense of community found here.  I seldom listen to music performances as there are other venues in which they may be found, so would not miss the Performers Pages. Like other members I am very appreciative of the work of Joe, Roger and the other moderators and hope it is possible to continue operations.  I do not have web management skills but would volunteer to assist with general administrative tasks and gladly support the effort financially if that becomes an issue.

   j.
It don't mean a thing...
 
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Offline quasar

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2022, 02:13:29 AM »
I am new to the Forum and from the beginning when I introduced myself I received warm greetings from you. Your welcome says a lot.

The work of having created and developed this wonderful group, where the knowledge about the arrangers, at all levels, is of the highest quality. I have had the experience of being in other groups but this one has a special organization and information by the tons. Let's do everything we can to keep it. Thank you very much Joe and Roger for this Forum, The Forum

Greetings
Carlos
 
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Offline hans1966

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2022, 04:07:22 AM »
Hi Joe, I want to thank you for this wonderful forum.

honestly it would seem very sad that the forum is over.

I hope there is a solution for this precious forum to remain.

I agree that we can all contribute our grain of sand with a small contribution, so that the PSR TUTORIAL forum continues.

Cheers

Hans
Disfrutando de PSR-SX900!!
 
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Offline Jørgen

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2022, 07:12:53 AM »
Hi
Joe, you are starting an important discussion about your website and forum. I consider both to be some of the most important - perhaps the most important - resources worldwide; and I'm around the forum every single day. Everything is well organized both on the website and the forum. Then everything is good! Or?
As you yourself mention, there has been a break in information on the web these years; and this coupled with the desire to still be at the forefront of the latest knowledge - without forgetting all the old stuff - requires constant maintenance and development. A job that you and Roger do great.
But what does the future hold? You yourself mention that you - and all the rest of us - do not get younger - on the contrary. And then the doubt as to whether all the effort is appreciated. But let me be clear that they do!
As most of you probably know, I have had my own well-visited website since 1999 - see footer on this post. And I'm going through the same considerations as you are. Is it worth the effort to continue? Is there interest in it? Can I do it? Do I have to buy a Genos just to keep up with the technology and thus be able to update and develop my software programs? (It becomes difficult as a pensioner to find the money). So I, like you, am looking for some feedback in the first place; and then I have to see if my strength and finances are sufficient.
When I now touch on the economy, I think it's a very, very big cost you have for hosting website and forum. I know very well that this topic is not your main point with your post; but it really must be possible to make it much cheaper.
I really hope you take a year - or better yet many years - with the website and the forum. The opposite will be a huge loss for all of us.

Jørgen
The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha
- since 1999
 

Offline janamdo

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2022, 10:41:42 AM »

When I now touch on the economy, I think it's a very, very big cost you have for hosting website and forum. I know very well that this topic is not your main point with your post; but it really must be possible to make it much cheaper.
I really hope you take a year - or better yet many years - with the website and the forum. The opposite will be a huge loss for all of us.

Jørgen

Well 3000 USD /year  that seems to me not only server costs , but also some expensives for help from other people who must be paid for this ?
 
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Offline vlbrgt

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2022, 12:30:21 PM »
Joe runs a 'Dedicated server', not a 'simple' VPS.
Google 'Dedicated server prices' and you get an idea about the prices.

Regards
Etienne
If plan A doesn't work, don't forget that the alphabet has 25 more letters.
Volbragte@telenet.be
http://Psrtutorial.com/MB/volbragt.html
Genos
 
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Offline kpblues

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2022, 01:20:30 PM »
Sorry to hear the forum is at a crossroads.

Like many others I enjoy regular visits to the forum and understand the effort it takes to run the show, so thank you
so much for all the work you have put in to get it this far.

We appreciate it.

I agree with the subscription idea but would pitch it at around £5 per year.
Its a small sum to secure the forum's future and hopefully would cover any website costs involved in collecting subscriptions.

Another option would be advertising. (I would prefer a static adverts as the pop ups drive me mad!)
I can think of a number of UK keyboard suppliers that would be interested.

Also agree with the styles database suggestions by Greg B earlier.

Not too bothered about the Performers section personally but this forum does at least give performers who are shy of Youtube exposure an outlet for their performances.

For me the great advantage of this forum is that I get to hear the views, thoughts and experiences of everybody who loves playing Yamaha keyboards.

So hope the forum carries on.

Good luck!   


Offline janamdo

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2022, 01:40:36 PM »
Joe runs a 'Dedicated server', not a 'simple' VPS.
Google 'Dedicated server prices' and you get an idea about the prices.

Regards
Etienne

Why not using a business hosting package ?
I see here : a premium package for 35 USD/ month
-------------------------------------------
Our Business packages are optimized for the business user where availability and security of data are extra important. For example, all mail traffic is routed via SSL, you have extensive incoming and outgoing spam filtering and free 30 day backups.
------------------------------------------------------------
greetings
Jan

I asked for advice: the person couldn't tell this after he has looked at the website ..
Also the payment options ( cost  money) can be simplified by only accepting Payal
As now the costs for a dedicated server..i ask too ?
Seems to be not a complicated site with only html pages and a forum page in .php for installing on a server

But maintance and expansion of the website is probably not done personally by Joe , but with a website building specialist with Dreamweaver website build tool ?
 
« Last Edit: January 13, 2022, 06:59:19 PM by janamdo »
 
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Offline DrakeM

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2022, 02:34:57 PM »
Ought to be able to see how many people are currently visiting the site monthly and what percent are frequently visiting. If that number isn’t well above 500 I would be surprised.

Charging a $5 year membership fee seems reasonable to me for what you get from this site. You figure you have 500 people join each year. That’s $2500 of your $3000 cost covered.

Then you stop storing MP3 files on the site.

Let each of the current “Performers” store their own MP3 files at BOX.com (or another similar site). You can then put a link to their BOX account at the bottom of their Current page. You cut the expense of storing all those thousands of files and the cost of the band width used of people playing them each year.

What we have to offer in our “Charter/Supporting members” section is worth every bit of $5 to members who have to note read to play their keyboard ALONE. All of that material is stored off site at Google Drive and Box sites. No cost for storage or band width to the members is involved now.

If any of this material is not stored off site it needs to be moved there.

That is a couple ideas to balance your budget (the retired financial accountant in me coming out).
 
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Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2022, 03:03:00 PM »
Hi Joe, I would like to add my voice to keeping this tutorial and forum going and like many others would be happy to contribute. I post songs quite often as you know but I also wander around the site at least a couple of times a week looking at comments on questions. I have also like many others taken advantage of many of the styles over the years. What many others say about community is so true...FB and You tube are great for doing stuff but lack the personal interaction. I have made many friends on here and that in a world which is so disconnected is so important....best wishes.  David
 
 
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Offline Jørgen

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2022, 05:19:45 PM »
Hi Joe, I would like to add my voice to keeping this tutorial and forum going and like many others would be happy to contribute. I post songs quite often as you know but I also wander around the site at least a couple of times a week looking at comments on questions. I have also like many others taken advantage of many of the styles over the years. What many others say about community is so true...FB and You tube are great for doing stuff but lack the personal interaction. I have made many friends on here and that in a world which is so disconnected is so important....best wishes.  David

fb and you tube also lack a clear structure with division of content into different sections. it makes it almost impossible to find and retrieve information.
Jørgen
The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site at http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha
- since 1999
 
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Offline Toril S

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2022, 10:23:50 PM »
Jørgen has a good point. I have given up facebook groups for this reason!
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 
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Offline Amwilburn

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2022, 10:37:21 PM »
Joe, you've done an amazing job with this website & forum... I can only imagine how much hard work you've put into it.

I miss google+ (that was an awesome free service... that they realized they weren't making any money on and now it's business accounts only... D'oh!).

But would it be possible to migrate the site to one of the lower cost webhosting services like wix, godady, hostpapa, Wordpress etc?

https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-cheap-web-hosting-services

It doesn't eliminate the fee, but at 1/10th the cost it might be a *lot* easier to scare up enough annually.

Mark


Offline EileenL

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2022, 11:59:52 PM »
I think I have made more friends on Face Book during the lock down than I have in many years. If you join the right group we all submit songs or give live performances Talk about our keyboards and help one another out in general. We have also had some lovely concerts performed by professional players people like Jean Martyn Chris Powel and others which has kept a lot of us going during these hard times plus there have been some great instructional demonstrations where you could ask questions on the live feed and get answers so I won't knock it because when forums became quite the interest was kept going by Face Book and Messenger video calls are great for showing people how to do things face to face and id dose not cost anything to belong.
 
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Offline mikf

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2022, 12:28:49 AM »
I am always sceptical about cost saving ideas being thrown in from the “outside” because most of the time it is not fully researched. And even if costs could be lowered, any migration is more work, and surely the last thing Joe and Roger want. Joe is 77, Roger is 81 they can’t keep doing this forever. I am 76 so I understand how they feel.
But I also notice is that no younger person is jumping up and saying they would like to take this website on.
Mike
 
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Offline dlepera

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2022, 02:34:29 AM »
Hello Joe and everyone in this forum.
 I have been a member since December 2020 when I first purchased my arranger keyboard. I had no idea of how it worked but read a lot about it. Even so I was prepared to return to the place of purchase because it intimidated me and had no support from the dealership or even “Yamaha Support”, what a let down.  I looked for support locally but not much for a newbie to go on. Then I found this forum and it was complete heaven for me. Today, I would NEVER let this keyboard go.  Not only did I learn so much in a short time and still learning with a long way to go.  The communication with forum members and support we provide each other is second to none.

My forum signature is something that I have believed in since I was old enough to reason and understand.  “Life is a learning experience and sharing it is it's biggest reward!

  I rely on this form because it is the place to get answers  from very experienced, understanding, patient, talented, supportive members of all ages. Speaking of age, it seems that more and more people I talk to these days are turning to music.  There is nothing more soothing than making and sharing music.  These past two years I think of it as the most effective way to keep balance and harmony in our lives

 Other social media platforms like Facebook have been mentioned, and very affective ways to communicate and while some have good experiences many on the other can misuse it. I for one and I am sure others like me don’t want to even go there.  Why have the potential chaos when we can have the harmony in this form.  I have seen that everyone follows the form code of ethics even when perhaps one may not agree on a response which is not a common thing.  Facebook, Instagram on the other hand is a different fish.   
 
A yearly subscription is not something to be afraid of when you get so much value in return. Look at these website that offer answers to questions on subjects like appliance repairs, auto repairs, etc. They charge a minimum $5 for an answer that you can get on utube or the internet. Yet they still are in business  The forum here gives us lots of answers sometimes before we even ask the question.

A yearly subscription to me of  $10 yr minimum, is in I my eyes  still a small price to pay for the administrative time that is put into this form just to maintain it, let alone the hard costs to host  the site.  Joe and Roger, I would think that you have the numbers for the number of new members and those that go dormant after 6 months.  You can use that to help determine what could be a fair year subscription. Of course one could say that in different parts of the world one dollar in Canada and USA would have a different value and fair enough that would be brought into consideration to arrive a a modest and fair amount.   That of course should not prevent anyone from donating an additional amount if they want to.  Deep down inside we all know the value that we get from this forum and passing forward our appreciation to continue this wonderful experience is the least that we can do. 

What I don’t appreciate is when someone purchases a package from this form and then monopolizes it to sell those styles, voices, pads and midis and songs for a profit on EBAY for example and more than likely do not provide a donation to the form. 
In my time here I have purchased 3 packages to help support the form,  and all well worth it. Where else could I have gotten such great value for so little. It has given me a great appreciation for all that you talented members do for the love of music and the generosity of allowing people like my self to enjoy the fruits of your labour. 
  Every time that I log into this site I learn so much just by reading posts. What a wonderful, convenient and well structured place to learn. 

   Thanks to not only Joe, Roger and others that support this website, but thanks to each and every one of us for supporting each other in whatever way we can and see fit.

    Let us all enjoy a happier New Year and let this forum be the place to go and fuel our love for music.   

                         Sincerely.             Dom
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 02:50:41 AM by dlepera »
Life is a learning experience and sharing it is it's biggest reward!
 
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Offline mikf

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2022, 02:52:29 AM »
We could all throw in $10 a year, $100 a year or even $1000 a year but it still won’t make Joe and Roger any younger.  ;D. Why do people keep thinking a subscription solves this??
Mike
 
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Offline dlepera

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2022, 03:11:16 AM »
Hi Mike.
Very simple. money does not by youth, you can look younger with a face lift with money of course. But kidding aside.  I am hearing two things here. One how to bring the form to modern day.  Well to that point sometimes the old works the best with simple modifications. What can this forum do to bring it up a notch, well nothing except to minimize the administrative work to maintain it with less overhead. Something like introducing automated tasks/scripts/welcome greetings, etc,  remove some less active boards, , I don't know the tasks involved to be able to suggest more cost effective ways to reduce workload intensive tasks. Structure, and controls I think are very good.

  Now what will the yearly $$ do, first and foremost cover the operating costs of the forum which someone has to pay or forfeit for lack of funds, which is not what we want.  So how do we get that money?  Now if the money can cover the cost of the forum and more, then the extra, perhaps can be used to hire someone to take on some of Joe's and Roger's activities giving them more precious free time to enjoy their lives outside of music and more
                                   dom
 
   
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 03:21:06 AM by dlepera »
Life is a learning experience and sharing it is it's biggest reward!
 
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Offline mikf

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2022, 03:38:59 AM »
Joe never asked if we should have a subscription, he never asked for advice in cutting costs. But that is what most people have addressed!!
He asked if the website content needed to radically change to stay relevant, or even if there was a place for the website at all going forward. And also hinted strongly  that he and Roger may not be able to keep this going for much longer. But most are answering questions he did not ask and ignoring the questions he did ask.
Mike
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 03:40:17 AM by mikf »
 
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Offline DrakeM

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2022, 04:22:34 AM »
If the site is worth it? Heck Yes it is. Anyone wanting to know how these keyboards work has to join this site. Nobody else has all the information in one spot like this site has put together.


When someone has a Question, an experience member is able to simple give them a LINK to a page here at the site which as the step by step instructions. Without this site holding all this information on it pages, it would be a real pain in the .... to have to re-type the information over and over again and again every 3 to 6 months for a new member.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 04:24:10 AM by DrakeM »
 
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Offline dlepera

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2022, 04:59:09 AM »
Mike, Joe's information can be interpreted in many ways. You are correct and so are the rest of us talking about our points. I am looking outside the box.  Joe's first lines are this:

"The bill to renew PSR Tutorial for another year comes due in less than two weeks.  It will cost me $3000. Is PSR Tutorial still worth it?"

  First thing that comes to most of our heads is the cost of running the forum.  It is costing Joe("me") as he states $3000. Why should it be costing him.  Yes the rest of his comments deal with improvements. But will those improvements get him the $3000 to pay for the running costs, where are they coming from and is there enough to cover costs. If the idea was just to solicit ideas, I don't think that the mentions of $3000 would need to be there.  Maybe just my interpretation. This is why we are on this point and trying to help address the initial and perhaps the most import point in keeping a forum running.  Money!! 

    Then comes how to save workload which affects the cost, reducing data storage on the sever reduces cost leading what I think you are focusing on which is just as correct and addressing the same point in view. Reducing data storage means reducing content, reducing administration work to support/manage the life cycle of that data, which means less work for Joe and Roger and long term save what:   MONEY, LABOUR! So after that is done and Joe and Roger are no longer doing the work, who will maintain it?  Someone may not want to do it for free, so again money may be required to pay someone to do the work... This is the way I look at things.
   Anyway why are you and I at odds here when we are both looking at the best interest of the forum.  Better yet, why are you even not considering expanding Joe's comments to help out not only Joe but the fate of the forum.
  Since you seem to know more than some of us, please put us on the right path by perhaps articulating  your thoughts on improvement so that we can all have some kind of a template example of what we should all be considering in order to ensure that we do not go on a tangent like this and make this post more directed to Joe's exact ask.
  Maybe Joe can steer us back on the straight and narrow since some of us are perceived of going of the path.   Sorry.    I am done here.
                                                   dom 
    I think I have said enough and I rest my case. 
           Regards.     dom _
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 05:07:10 AM by dlepera »
Life is a learning experience and sharing it is it's biggest reward!
 
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Offline mikf

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2022, 06:31:46 AM »
I have put forward my thoughts quite clearly previous posts in this thread. And if you look at the “likes” you see both Roger and Joe, so what I am saying obviously resonates with them.
The annual paying of the main bill places Joe at a crossroads, a decision point. A decision becoming more difficult each year, not because he cannot find the money, but because he is getting older and questions if it is worth the continuing effort. Does he pay it and therefore by implication carry on for one more year, or does he decide now is the time to call it quits. Even if he decides to carry on this time, the same decision happens again next year.
 I said before the only way I see this carries on for much longer ie beyond a year or two, is if it transitions to a younger person with the technical know how, fresh energy and willing to take it on. And it will be down to that person to decide if change is needed and make those changes - whether that is cost reduction, subscriptions, more resources or radical content change, - or all of these.
I am certainly not that person, are any of you?

Mike
 
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Offline ton37

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2022, 08:22:07 AM »
The core: let Joe W. place a large, eye-catching, advertisement on his (valued) site: wanted a young, energetic and music-loving person, who wants to continue this site in the short term. He/she gets the help of the existing moderators for a smooth transition. For info contact ....
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 01:35:17 PM by ton37 »
My best regards,
Ton
---------------------------
Former KB:Technics Sx-Kn7000, Tyros 5/76, Genos, S770, S975.
 
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Offline EileenL

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2022, 02:11:04 PM »
I myself only run a forum not a website. I do not ask and would not take donations to run it. I do it because I love Yamaha keyboards and have had so much pleasure from them. I know they can seem complicated to new and existing users and I get lots of I want to throw this thing out of the window. I just wanted to help people get the best from these lovely instruments. Then of course the next step for them to be encouraged to show us how they used it and set it up to entertain us with there songs. I give away styles from time to time that I have worked on and as I know how short some members time is I make sure these all work well and use them myself.
  I also post registrations I have made to give an idea what is possible and to add variety to playing. I don't have moderators and don't allow Music books or sheet music to be shared on the site because of copy write. I believe our laws are a little different in the UK to else ware.
  All this is paid for by me as it is what I enjoy doing and I am 85 this year by the way.
 
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Offline mikf

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2022, 03:46:50 PM »
That is admirable Eileen.
 
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Offline ton37

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2022, 04:52:45 PM »
If I interpret/translate Joe W.'s post correctly, the focus is on the PSR tutorial part. That seems 'to worry' him the most. Not so much in the forum section. I've had a similar website like this for many years. I can imagine that, due to ones age, it could be: enough is enough (and believe me: it costs a lot of time and energy). Human speaking: as soon as you start to wonder: do I have to go through with this? Than it usually doesn't take long before you drop the axe. Hopefully a successor will appear before then, if not: it is history...
I whish you all the best, Joe W. (c.s.), fingers crossed ;-)
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 04:54:10 PM by ton37 »
My best regards,
Ton
---------------------------
Former KB:Technics Sx-Kn7000, Tyros 5/76, Genos, S770, S975.
 
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Offline EileenL

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2022, 04:54:09 PM »
Thank you mikf

Offline Joe W

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2022, 05:57:52 PM »
First of all, let me express my Thanks and appreciation for all the members who have responded and contributed to this discussion.   It helps illustrate the value of this PSR Tutorial forum community.

Second, let me assure everyone that I have paid the bill and we are good to go for another year.  That bill, by the way, included not only the server itself, but technical management and support to take care of the software and updates needed to just keep servers up and running as well as other associated fees like domain name registration etc.

As mikf has suggested, paying the bill was not so much about the cost as about the decision to sign on for another year.  This thread confirms that there are many people who appreciate the PSR Tutorial and would like to have it continue, more or less as is but with minor changes that may reduce upkeep and maintenance, which, for Roger and myself, is measured in hours not in  dollars.

When the forum started, I looked for a way to generate income to cover financial costs.  Providing CDs or resources seemed to be the answer.  When someone ordered a CD, they became a "Supporter" in the forum -- for Life -- and had access to a wider array of forum resources.  So, instead of paying, say $5/year, a purchase of $25 would provide access not for 5 years, but for life.  Over the years, thanks to the generosity of many forum members, I have been able to collect and create new resources every year or so.  You will notice many users have the term "Supporter" next to their name, meaning they have, at some time, provided support by ordering a data collection or making a donation.  Others may have "PSR Performer" by their name meaning they have provided support by contributing their music to the PSR Tutorial.  Some members are shown as "Senior Members" meaning they have shown their support by providing answers and comments in the forum on a regular basis.

There are donation buttons on the main web site as well as buttons to order any of the available data collections.  That has worked and, I assume, will continue to work in 2022 as long as the main site is still there and maintained.  The forum remains free and open to the public (just as the web site is free and open to everyone).  In fact, most of the things provided in the various "collections" are available on the main website and can be freely downloaded from there.  If the main site disappeared, we could switch the forum to some kind of subscription basis but no need to do that just now.

Fortunately, over time new Yamaha keyboards worked pretty much like earlier keyboards so most of the lesson material remained relevant.  I've tried to supplement some lessons by using the screen shots from the new SX900 where the user interface is a bit different from earlier models.

I'm not so sure how valuable the coverage of MP3s are. Over the years, I have received over 8,600 MP3s.  4,800 are still available online.  What to modify here may be a separate discussion. 

In the meantime, the PSR Tutorial and the forum will continue through 2022.  Maybe this will be the year Yamaha releases the next generation and we will have plenty of new things to talk about.

 


Offline Toril S

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2022, 06:08:26 PM »
Joe, did you hear my big sigh of relief all the way from Norway? A big thank you for taking on another year! ❤️
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 
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Offline dlepera

Re: Where To in 2022?
« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2022, 06:25:47 PM »
Joe, thanks for your dedication and hard work along with Roger and others doing all the hard work behind the scenes to provide this world class forum.  All your efforts do not go unnoticed and are greatly appreciated.
                All the best!   dom
Life is a learning experience and sharing it is it's biggest reward!
 
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