Author Topic: YEM Saving a pack of project files?  (Read 1516 times)

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Offline Rich Z

YEM Saving a pack of project files?
« on: December 07, 2021, 02:08:15 AM »
I've been trying to figure this out, but not having much luck. What I want to do is to create a pack of project files.  In other words, I want to set up a pack that would be the base conglomeration of project files (.ppf and .cpf) and from that generate the installation file.  I would want to save that pack and when the opportunity arises, simply add a new project to the main pack, generate a new installation file for installation on my Genos.  If I don't like that new addition and want to try another? No worry, simply reload the pack of projects with that new project file, generate the new installation file, and off we go.

But so far I haven't found a way to load in the base projects and then save that pack file.  I was able to load a couple of projects into a new pack, but it loaded in the individual elements of both packs and when I went to try to load in the third project, YEM just choked up with an error.

Yeah, I know I can just generate the main base pack and keep it handy to roll back, but in order to create a new pack containing additional projects along with the base pack, I have to create it all from scratch again.  Not really very efficient of my time. So where am I going wrong?  This seems like something very basic that would be available to do in YEM, but I am having trouble figuring out how to do it.

I saw something about "Quick" installation packs, but I am a bit hazy on how that works, and the YEM manual I have doesn't mention it at all.

Hopefully I explained what I am trying to do well enough.  I am still wet behind the ears with the YEM program.  Not to mention that I am also having problems getting the program to display properly on my computers.  :(
Genos, Korg Kronos, two left feet for hands.  :(
 

Offline DerekA

Re: YEM Saving a pack of project files?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2021, 08:13:28 AM »
YEM is a bit basic, to say the least. So I am certain you will not be satisfied with it :):)

All it will do is remember the last set of packs/content that you ticked the last time you opened it, and the last set of packs/content that were used to generate an installation file. This happens automatically.

You can't save that set away somewhere as a kind of "restore" point.

When you open YEM again after creating a file, and select your instrument from the list on the left, it will churn away for a few minutes then everything that was selected last time round will be reselected ready for you to make changes.

When you make changes to set of selected content  - e.g. adding a new pack - you can either recreate the entire installation file, or generate a "quick install" file with just the changes. But you must load that quick install file straight onto your keyboard. Because the next time you generate a quick install file, it will be relative to what was previously selected in YEM when you last did it, *not* relative to whatever you last installed on the keyboard.
Genos
 

Offline Rich Z

Re: YEM Saving a pack of project files?
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2021, 06:15:32 PM »
Well, I thought as an alternative strategy, what I would do instead is to just generate individual installation files.  So I did three of them. The first with project files I knew I wanted to use in the expansion area of the Genos. The second one was with several more project files added to #1 that I THINK I may like. And the third adding the KApro Legend project set of Hammond B3 voices added to #2.  Generation of the installation files seemed to go just fine, but the odd thing is that all three of those generated installation files have exactly the same file size.  930.38 mb.  How can that be?
Genos, Korg Kronos, two left feet for hands.  :(
 

Offline ckobu

Re: YEM Saving a pack of project files?
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2021, 06:27:59 PM »
Hi Rich Z

I suggest you watch these two videos carefully, include English subtitles. In them you will find the answers to the questions you asked.

Basic information about the relationship between keyboards and YEM
https://youtu.be/abOb0fUIC2Y

Installation Packs
https://youtu.be/YhO2ZHlvmX0

Quick installation is a good method but some rules should be followed. Look what it's about.

Quick Installation File
https://youtu.be/xj8Anf4B3sY
Watch my video channel
 

Offline Rich Z

Re: YEM Saving a pack of project files?
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2021, 06:35:16 PM »
Hi Rich Z

I suggest you watch these two videos carefully, include English subtitles. In them you will find the answers to the questions you asked.

Basic information about the relationship between keyboards and YEM
https://youtu.be/abOb0fUIC2Y

Installation Packs
https://youtu.be/YhO2ZHlvmX0

Quick installation is a good method but some rules should be followed. Look what it's about.

Quick Installation File
https://youtu.be/xj8Anf4B3sY

Thanks.  Actually I have already viewed them, but will do so again as they may have more relevance, and I may get more out of them, now that I am sticking my toes into YEM.

BTW, any possibility you could create like videos using spoken English language?  Trying the read the captions and watch the video at the same time is pretty distracting.  I find I have to pause the video often, and it winds up getting aggravating and makes the presentation seem disjointed.  This is not to belittle your efforts, as they are appreciated, just expressing my opinion as an English speaking viewer who craves a more perfect experience.
Genos, Korg Kronos, two left feet for hands.  :(
 

Offline ckobu

Re: YEM Saving a pack of project files?
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2021, 06:46:46 PM »
I understand that itís harder to watch a video when you donít understand the language. This is the case now and I may change it in the future.
You can slow down the video so it may be easier to follow the content.
Watch my video channel
 

Offline Rich Z

Re: YEM Saving a pack of project files?
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2021, 09:30:26 PM »
I actually shut off the audio in those YouTube videos, and that seems to help somewhat. Quite honestly, your videos are some of the very VERY few I have ever sat through that required me to use the English captions. I normally don't bother.

Good idea about just slowing down the video.  I don't think that it is that I am a particularly slow reader, as when I read, the words form images in my brain so I wind up thinking about what the words are SHOWING me.  Maybe that is also my conflict with trying to watch a video with captions. I am trying to "watch" two things at once.

Anyway, I decided to just putter around with YEM today.  I took the USB stick over to my Genos and ran the expansion install on version #3 of the three files I generated in the den.  Install went OK, as far as getting any error messages to the contrary would indicate. But when the Genos rebooted, although the new expansion install had wiped out the Hammond voice library I had installed previously, what SHOULD have been around 40+ packs I wanted to install showed only 12 of them making it to the Genos.  That is when I decided to crank up the PC in that "music" room and try another installation file creation there.  Basically chose the same selections (.ppf & .cpf) as I tried on the other computer. File type for the installation file is .cpi.  But the pack install size showed 803 mb instead of the 932 mb previously.  So I plugged it into the Genos and ran the expansion install again.

When that finished and the Genos rebooted, well hell, I had the same result.  Out of those 40 or so project files, only 12 made it to the Genos. And yes, they were the same ones previously. Just to see if maybe the installation was failing to erase and format expansion memory, I ran the install on the Hammond voice library mentioned above again, and when that finished up, yes, I had those Hammond voices installed just like it was supposed to do. At that point I ran out of patience and just shut everything down.

What the heck is going on?  Obviously I am doing something wrong, as this program has been used for years by a bunch of you folks, and I haven't really seen anyone throwing a big red flag onto Yamaha's field about it. Why is the install program in the Genos only loading 12 of the 40 project files into my keyboard?  Or is it that YEM is doing the filtering in that expansion file before it ever gets to be plugged into the Genos? Does REM just shut down the import when it hits a file it doesn't like, yet neglect to inform anyone about that happening? Or does the Genos do something similar when it sees an entry in the installation file it doesn't like?

Just out of curiosity, how can I check to see how much of the expansion RAM in the Genos is actually being utilized by what it IS loading in?

Sure would aggravate me to learn that I bought a number of expansion packages that I can't even use.  Or do they need to be loaded SOLELY into the GENOS without being alongside anything else?  Man, that would be a kick to the nether regions.

Genos, Korg Kronos, two left feet for hands.  :(
 

Offline ckobu

Re: YEM Saving a pack of project files?
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2021, 10:22:53 PM »
Hi Rich Z,

You have to make sure all Packs have a green check mark. Unpacked packs have gray check marks as shown in Figure 1 and will not be stored in the Installation File (CPI). These Packs will not be installed on the keyboard.
 
In the second picture is a yellow marked number that indicates how much content you have marked (green check mark), that is, what will be the size of the Installation Pack.
Watch my video channel
 

Offline Rich Z

Re: YEM Saving a pack of project files?
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2021, 10:40:41 PM »
Hi Rich Z,

You have to make sure all Packs have a green check mark. Unpacked packs have gray check marks as shown in Figure 1 and will not be stored in the Installation File (CPI). These Packs will not be installed on the keyboard.
 
In the second picture is a yellow marked number that indicates how much content you have marked (green check mark), that is, what will be the size of the Installation Pack.

Yes!  I was just watching your videos again and when I got to that section about the green check marks, I had an "AHA!" moment.  I am sure that was the problem.  I know I knew that, but I'm guessing I just assumed they were automatically checked when imported.  I don't see them until I click on the Genos instrument, so I just overlooked that little detail.

Thanks for linking those videos for me so I could refresh my memory about this YEM thingie.

Now to generate another installation file....
Genos, Korg Kronos, two left feet for hands.  :(
 

Offline Rich Z

Re: YEM Saving a pack of project files?
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2021, 11:21:19 PM »
Aarrgh..  I green checked all the project files I want to include and YEM is telling me that the install pack will be 3236/3072 mb.  :(

Guess I need to weed out some of those project files.  That KApro Hammond library is pretty large, so I may have to either take it out completely, or else audition a few of the organ sounds and only import them.  Luckily I have it installed on the Genos right now, so I can easily (comparatively speaking) do that without having to install it again.  Probably only a few I would be interested in anyway.

Eh, maybe I am just going overboard with this and I need to only install the very best of what is available.  Probably best to reserve the expansion space more to styles rather than a lot of voices anyway.

Oh well, another learning curve flattening out.
Genos, Korg Kronos, two left feet for hands.  :(
 

Offline ckobu

Re: YEM Saving a pack of project files?
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2021, 11:30:30 PM »
Within the Package, you can selectively "eject" content and thus reduce the Installation File.
https://youtu.be/YhO2ZHlvmX0?t=324

Don't worry about Styles. Although they are in the PACK they do not take up space in the Expansion memory. After all, these are very small files measured and KB.
Watch my video channel
 

Offline Rich Z

Re: YEM Saving a pack of project files?
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2021, 12:16:56 AM »
Within the Package, you can selectively "eject" content and thus reduce the Installation File.
https://youtu.be/YhO2ZHlvmX0?t=324

Don't worry about Styles. Although they are in the PACK they do not take up space in the Expansion memory. After all, these are very small files measured and KB.

Well, I am guessing that if a pack contains both styles and voices that there may be a good chance that the styles are actually using some of those included voices. Maybe? Not sure what the style does if it can't find a voice it needs.

Speaking of which, putting a bunch of custom voices in the expansion memory sounds like a good idea to me, but in practical uses, is this leaning into a left hook?  If I were to modify styles to use those expansion voices, what happens if I get a wild hair and decide to change the packs I have loaded there?  Do the styles reference voices by location or by name?  If the voice is in expansion memory, just put into a different place by a modified install file, does the style choke up on that situation?  I guess this same question would apply to registrations.

And speaking of things that go aarrghh in the dark, I modified the setup in my Genos to utilize one of the foot pedals for the rotary speaker effect. Playing around with these expansion memory things, somehow that setting got lost.  Any way to make that a change that can only be rechanged by my own conscious effort?

And to re-ask a question asked earlier, is there a way to check to see how much expansion memory is left available in the Genos after doing an install procedure?  Or is the figure show in YEM the only way?  And if so, is that accurate?
Genos, Korg Kronos, two left feet for hands.  :(
 

Offline ckobu

Re: YEM Saving a pack of project files?
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2021, 06:36:16 AM »
Yes, the Style inside the Pack usually uses some of the Voices contained in it. It is usually about one or two specific Voices. If they donít exist, Style will play but a channel that lacks Voices will not be heard. It will have a keyboard icon.
If all the channels in the Style had VOices from the Pack, and that Pack was not installed, the Style would not be heard. If the voices are elsewhere the same thing will happen. Style wonít play because he canít find his sounds. The same goes for registrations.

You probably changed the foot control by calling a Registration that has different settings.

The image from YEM is the only way to see what the size of the Installation Pack is.
Watch my video channel
 

Offline Rich Z

Re: YEM Saving a pack of project files?
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2021, 11:14:59 PM »
Yes, the Style inside the Pack usually uses some of the Voices contained in it. It is usually about one or two specific Voices. If they donít exist, Style will play but a channel that lacks Voices will not be heard. It will have a keyboard icon.
If all the channels in the Style had VOices from the Pack, and that Pack was not installed, the Style would not be heard. If the voices are elsewhere the same thing will happen. Style wonít play because he canít find his sounds. The same goes for registrations.

So how does this work with styles that are imported from other instruments? Say, for instance, the Tyros series?  Is the internal structure for the voices the same in the Genos as in those other older keyboards such that the styles can find the voices needed? Or would you just have to try each voice used in any imported style and if there is nothing coming from the speakers from one or more, just assume they are looking for a voice that doesn't exist on that keyboard you are using?

You probably changed the foot control by calling a Registration that has different settings.

If I am reading this right, then this means that every time I would load up a registration that did not have the foot pedal changed within it to trigger the organ rotary speed change, then my foot pedal change will be lost and have to be done over again?  Meaning there is no permanent way to make that change such that it is immune to registration changes?  I am thinking about all those registrations from the Tyros 5 along with the relevant PlayList(s)..... :o What a pain in the butt that would be to edit each and every one of them to recognize this footswitch change I want to have.

The image from YEM is the only way to see what the size of the Installation Pack is.

Can you see the expansion RAM from a PC via the USB connection as a remote storage device?
Genos, Korg Kronos, two left feet for hands.  :(
 

Offline Francesco Massa

Re: YEM Saving a pack of project files?
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2021, 08:54:43 AM »
I suggest to always AVOID the USB Quick Installation mode and the Wi-Fi installation mode due to sound glitches in different voices (almost in my personal experience, maybe it's only related to my Genos but I could make a video that explains that bug). I always use the Full Installation mode, I know you can go shopping and have a coffee in the meantime, but I always have no sound issues following this way.

Francesco
Genos
Previously owned: PSR-740, Tyros2, Tyros3, Tyros4 & Tyros5
 

Offline Rich Z

Re: YEM Saving a pack of project files?
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2021, 09:21:46 PM »
I did the expansion thing and it went without a hitch. At least it appears that way.  Used the USB method instead of the WiFi. Took quite a long time, though at 2.55 gb being used. I just cranked up the Kronos and noodled around on that while waiting.  Found a few freebie Hammond organ voices might as well be excluded from the next upload, since the Leslie emulation is not included for them, and they all have vibrato enabled. Can these voices just be deleted from the Genos instead of just excluding them from the expansion file list?  No sense cluttering it up if I can help it.

Odd thing I noticed is that it appears that this expansion process seems to put folders in other categories whether there are entries going in them or not.  In other words, if there is an uploaded expansion folder called TEST in the styles section that includes those styles, and there is nothing else being provided, there will also be a folder entitled TEST put into the voices and registration areas (maybe more, but I didn't look) too, even though they are empty.  Is this normal?  And normal or not, any destructive possibilities by just deleting those empty folders?
Genos, Korg Kronos, two left feet for hands.  :(
 

Offline ckobu

Re: YEM Saving a pack of project files?
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2021, 10:12:06 PM »
I agree with Francesco, for a start avoid WIfi installation and quick installation



So how does this work with styles that are imported from other instruments? Say, for instance, the Tyros series?  Is the internal structure for the voices the same in the Genos as in those other older keyboards such that the styles can find the voices needed? Or would you just have to try each voice used in any imported style and if there is nothing coming from the speakers from one or more, just assume they are looking for a voice that doesn't exist on that keyboard you are using?

Style has 8 channels (drum1, drum2, bass, chord1 ...). Instruments played on these channels can be Preset (factory) or stored in the built-in memory. The Tyros has built-in RAM, the Genos and SX series have Expansion memory. Technically these are different things but for Instruments on Style channels nothing changes. Each Instrument has its own location and it is determined by three numbers MSB, LSB and PRG. (picture 1)
There will be no problems with the Instruments in the preset, everything that played on Tyros will play on Genos as well. However, Voices in memory must be in the same location, that is, they must have the correct MSB, LSB and PRG. If you follow the rules when installing the new Pack in Genos, there will be no problems and Style will play well on Genos.

If I am reading this right, then this means that every time I would load up a registration that did not have the foot pedal changed within it to trigger the organ rotary speed change, then my foot pedal change will be lost and have to be done over again?  Meaning there is no permanent way to make that change such that it is immune to registration changes?  I am thinking about all those registrations from the Tyros 5 along with the relevant PlayList(s)..... :o What a pain in the butt that would be to edit each and every one of them to recognize this footswitch change I want to have.



I just assumed the registration changed the status of the foot pedal. This is most likely the cause but I can't be 100% sure.
When you create the Registration and have the PEDAL marked, the status of the pedal will be entered in the registration. If you did this on Tyros5, Registration will change the status of the Foot Pedal even when you use it on Genos.
There are two ways to fix the situation. The first is to review all the Registrations in the keyboard, but that's too much work. Another way is to assign the same PEDAL status to all Registrations, but you can only do this on a computer with software Yamaha Registration Manager.

Can you see the expansion RAM from a PC via the USB connection as a remote storage device?

You can also see the size on the USB stick (installation file), but this information is not completely accurate. In addition, in YEM, in addition to the size of the content, you can see two additional parameters.
Watch my video channel
 

Offline Rich Z

Re: YEM Saving a pack of project files?
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2021, 01:25:08 AM »

I just assumed the registration changed the status of the foot pedal. This is most likely the cause but I can't be 100% sure.
When you create the Registration and have the PEDAL marked, the status of the pedal will be entered in the registration. If you did this on Tyros5, Registration will change the status of the Foot Pedal even when you use it on Genos.
There are two ways to fix the situation. The first is to review all the Registrations in the keyboard, but that's too much work. Another way is to assign the same PEDAL status to all Registrations, but you can only do this on a computer with software Yamaha Registration Manager.


I was doing a bit of research about this, because I was getting the heeby-jeebies thinking that if I took the time to set up all of my assignable buttons to be just the way I want them on MY Genos, that this setup could be wiped out by my loading ANY registration that was created via another party that I would load into my own Genos.  Basically MY assigned buttons could become THEIR assigned buttons that they had in effect while creating their registration.

Sort of gives me heartburn, I guess.  I thought the number of downloadable regstrations available was a God send. Now, well, maybe not so much.

But I found another post from you concerning this issue that may save the day:

Assignable buttons cannot be locked with the parameter lock. But you can do that with the Freeze option.
1. Set the assignable button to the desired status
2. Press the Direct Access button then the Freeze button
3. Check the Assignable Butons box
4. Activate Freeze (red light) while calling registrations, or keep it active at all times

So is that a third option?  Can that Freeze button be made permanent? Active at ALL times, no matter what unless I want it to be inactive?  In other words, I don't want ANY assignable buttons changed unless I specifically and manually choose to do so. It would be the equivalent of the system clock. I want the time to be what it is supposed to be, and not changed by something I load into the Genos and run.

I'll have to take a look at that Yamaha Registration Manager, btw. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

Registrations seem like a neat idea, but it appears it has some teeth that need to be watched out for.

Genos, Korg Kronos, two left feet for hands.  :(
 

Offline ckobu

Re: YEM Saving a pack of project files?
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2021, 05:29:01 AM »
You understood everything well, FREEZE is a good and lasting solution. Registrations are a great tool and their use makes playing as easy as possible.
Yamaha Registration manager is a great program with which you can process Registrations on your computer in a fast and efficient way. See an example of how you can print all the settings on paper. For example, this way you can see on which registrations the PEDAL control is placed.

https://youtu.be/CkYjZIpgwW0
Watch my video channel