Topic: The sound of the PSR-s970

[Gleston]

Please, I need an explanation.

Why the sound of the keyboard is diferent when you hear it from the internal speakers or send it to another system from the audio output.

Specifically the piano sound is good on the speakers and very thin outside the keyboard.

Can someone explain that to me? Is there any equalization that I can do to make it better?

Thanks

[Toril S]

What do you mean outside the keyboard? The sound will be different when using different sound equipment. When does it sound thin?

[travlin-easy]

Most external sound systems have a separate EQ control that can be used to take care of this. If your system does not have this, then you must use a small mixer  with effects and go through it as an interface between the keyboard and the external sound system. Sound systems without EQ controls are less expensive, but everything that goes in comes out fairly flat sounding, or thin in the case of the piano.

Hope this helps,

Gary 

[overover]

Hi Gleston,

you can (and should) use the Master Equalizer of the S970 to adapt the sound to the external speaker system used or to adjust the sound to your taste:

- Connect the line outputs of the S970 to your external sound system, and temporarily connect headphones to the S970 to turn off the internal speakers. (Alternatively, you can also change the setting from "Headphone Switch" to "OFF" in "[Function] > Utility > Config2 > 1 Speaker" in order to switch off the internal speakers without headphones being connected.)

- Press the [Mixing Console] button and tab to "MEQ" (= Master EQ).

- Remember or write down which Master EQ Type is currently activated. (Presumably it's "Standard".)

- Run a style you know well and activate the various Master EQ presets one after the other (Standard, Mellow, Loudness, Powerful, Flat). Based on the preset you like best, you can use the EQ controls below to make any setting you want. (If you don't like any of the presets, I recommend starting with "Flat" (= neutral setting).)

- With each GAIN control you can raise or lower the frequency band around the FREQUENCY set above.

- In the top row of the controls you can set the so-called "Q factor" for the six middle frequency bands. A low Q value (e.g. 0.9) corresponds to a large bandwidth around the set frequency (well suited for increasing frequency ranges). The higher the Q value is set, the narrower the bandwidth of the relevant frequency band around the set frequency (well suited for lowering certain frequencies, e.g. to specifically reduce certain interference frequencies / room resonances).

- If you are satisfied with your settings, you can (should) save them to one of the storage locations User1 / 2.


Please refer also to page 110 of the S970 Reference Manual ("Editing and Saving Your Original Master EQ (MEQ) Type").

By the way: In addition to the Master EQ settings, you should also check the Master Compressor settings and adjust them to your needs if necessary. Information on this can be found in the Reference Manual on pages 111/112.

If necessary, you can download the S970 manuals here:
>>> https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/arranger_workstations/psr-s970/downloads.html#product-tabs


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

[mikf]

Gleston
Of course you can use the equalizer to improve the sound, but you might be the first person to ever post that the internal speakers outperformed an external speaker system regardless of the settings.
What kind of speaker system are you using? I have always found that while the internal speakers on older PSRs are ok, even the lowest cost pair of powered external speakers outperformed them by miles.
Mike

[Gleston]

First I would like to thank you all for the advices.

I also thought that an equalization should fix the problem, but when I go playing with external equipment I do not have time to test the sound and find a better quality from EQ.
I usually play at home with headphones, and sometimes using the PSR-S970 speakers.
When I´m at home I love my PSR-S970.

So the same EQ is used to play with external systems (mainly on others people equipment) .

And i´m playing in a band that covers Pink Floyd, so... big sound from guitars, bass, drums, etc.

The guys keep telling me to change my keyboard to big Roland, Korg or even Kurzweill instruments.

I´ll try some different settings from MEQ and see ( hear) what happens, and a small mixer to help.
 

[Toril S]

Don't listen to your bandmates, the S970 is a great keyboard! If they can't mix your keyboard to fit their sound that is not the keyboard's fault! An external mixer should not be needed, sonce the keyboard already have a mixer on board.  Good luck finding the best sound

[Amwilburn]

Working in a music store and getting to plug everything in, *most* of the time the designated speakers are very hard to replicate in terms of quality (The Korg PA1000 has the best speakers I've ever heard for a KB, and using most portable PA's under $1500 won't even come close). The speakers of the PSRsx900 are even clearer (but don't have the built in sub) and the PSRs970/975 have fantastic speakers, just a smidge less warm than the 2 aforementioned heavyweights.

So if you plug the s970 into a pair of... well, without naming specific brands and models, but let's just say if I plug it a pair of almost *any* live sound reinforcement speakers under $800/pair, it will sound much, much worse than the on board. At around the $1100/pair price point, there are 2 that would sound as good as the built in speakers (slightly warmer, but also with less bass).

I can say I miss the mark 1 versions of the QSC K series... they had a built in 'deep bass' mode that really, really worked (*without* frapping the speaker out... most speakers when you try to add bass, they basically introduce a farting noise)

Now, I *can* say that a current QSC set of K10.2 or K12.2 would sound amazing, as long as you added a sub. Or JBL Eons (but anyone who can hear above 15kz will find them not as clear and open as the onboard speakers).

So yes, if it sounds worse through a PA, that's actually very common for a lot of models of PA speakers. Is there a fix without purchasing better speakers? Unfortunately, not really... you can EQ it all you want, but a lot of speaker frequency response curves aren't designed to be remotely flat (which is what a full frequency range instrument like a keyboard or electronic drum kit demands), meaning if it sounds muddy because the speakers can't flatly reproduce any frequencies above say, 12 kHz, no amount of compensating will bring those frequencies back.

I suppose you could just purchase a separate PA system for yourself. Out of curiosity, what are you running through? Also keep in mind, your PSR is designed for a stereo image, but most people playing guitars, bass guitar, and singing through a PA usually design the sound field in mono.  Concerts are usually mono sound sourced into a multiple speaker array, so they can 'predict' accurately what each audience member hears. We use an 20 PA speaker array that's fed from 1 mono channel. It doesn't sound mono because they're pointing in all directions.

The point is, if they're designing their sound field in mono, stereo sampled instruments aren't optimised acoustically for that (that's why most pro stage pianos include a mono piano sound, specifically for live gigging). THEN you can send those to the master mixer with everyone's else's signals, and it won't sound so thin (stereo designed signals, even if you use the L+R into a single channel, always sound thinner than mono designed signals when doing a live total mix, hence why pro stage pianos have mono piano options).

Luckily you *can* download samples designed for mono use into the s970.

Mark

[Gleston]

Thank you  Amwilburn.

You touch in another point. I have to use the L+R/Mono output, because thats what is at my disposal.

And this reduces a lot the quality of my sound. I try to explain them, but I need to use one day with the stereo out, so they will see(hear) the diference.

I hope one day I will buy two monitors and use them all the time.


Toril , thank you also, for your words. People still think that arrangers KB have less quality, and a Genos here in Brasil is the price of a NEW small car.  Too expansive.....

[travlin-easy]

There is a good reason that I went with the Bose L1 PAS system many years ago - it was the sound! Yes, it was very expensive, but I was able to perform jobs outdoors and that system easily covered a community part with 600 people in attendance, covering an area of nearly 3 acres. There was nearly no falloff at 200 yards away and people that distance from me were loving the music and dancing.

If I recall, I paid about $1,200 for the system, it had a 210 degree horizontal coverage and the falloff at 100 feet was less than 10 percent. It also had 54 builtin EQ settings that you could work with, and a half dozen of them were specifically for arranger keyboards. It also came with a 10-long-throw sub that moved so much air you could actually put out a burning candle with it from 3 feet away. And, you could control the sub separately from the main outputs.

The only reason I got rid of it was weight. While no individual component weighed more than 33 pounds, the total, when assembled, was 92 pounds - too heavy for this old man to lug around, even on the cart. Therefore, I switched to a pair of Bose L1 Compacts, which served me well for more than a decade. If I were still actively performing on stage, I would purchase a Bose L1 PRO16 Portable Line Array Speaker System with Bluetooth. It is 1,250-watts with a built-in 3 channel mixer and an incredible frequency range.

You only get what you pay for,

Gary

[overover]

Hi Gleston,

When using the OUTPUT L/L+R socket, the two stereo channels are simply merged together (if no plug is connected to the R socket). It is well known that many voices and effects designed for STEREO then sound much worse than when connected to a stereo sound system.

For MONO operation, I recommend to try the OUTPUT R socket "stand alone" instead of the L/ L+R socket. You will only hear the Right channel then, but there is no overlap/interference between the two stereo channels then, and the MONO sound achieved in this way is in many cases better.


Best regards,
Chris

[Jay B.]

@ Mark - Where can one obtain mono samples that will fit in the S970's memory...say like a piano?

[Gleston]

I want to know also....

[travlin-easy]

Here's a link to several sounds that I created in mono that will work in any Yamaha arranger keyboard. https://app.box.com/s/620aqowt5q1vlnvcl7n9

Good luck,

Gary 

[overover]

Here's a link to several sounds that I created in mono that will work in any Yamaha arranger keyboard. ...

Where is the link?

[travlin-easy]

Whoops! I fixed it.

Gary

[overover]

Hi Gary,

You wrote that these Voices were "created in MONO". But the files linked for download are only Voice Set files (.VCE, .SWV, .LIV), i.e. these "Voices" are based on Preset Voices (which are designed to be Stereo in almost all cases).

Could you explain to me how you can change Preset Voices by changing Voice Set parameters so that the original Stereo samples are no longer used, but the entire Voice is suddenly MONO? I don't think this is possible ...


Best regards,
Chris

[travlin-easy]

Chris, all of the voices I posted/created were made using the PSR-3000's midi voices and the onboard voice creator program. Yes, they were preset voices, but not the standard onboard voices, but mono midi voices run through the voice creator program and enhanced using the various effects in the keyboard.

All the best,

Gary 

[jwyvern]

With normal voices if you play their notes using chords they will sound the chords right back at you. They are set in so called Poly mode. If you set a voice to Mono in Voice Set it means that voice will only play 1 note (usually the highest note) even if you play chords on the KB. (Mono is also necessary for using Portamento). Layering a Poly voice with other voices set to Mono (eg.  Strings with Flute) can be useful for producing an ensemble sound with a lead voice playing over the top when playing RH chords. It can sound more realistic than letting every layered voice play its own thick chords.
Mono in Voice Set is not used in the context of "not stereo" as far as I am aware. The mono voices I set on Genos continue to have Left and Right properties .
John

[Amwilburn]

There's probably some confusion here; the mono I'm meaning is short for monaural (ie single channel audio with the same sound on the left and right channels).
Poly/mono refers to polyphonic/monophonic, nothing to do with mono sound samples. It's being able to play only 1 note at a time, or multiple notes for chords. John is spot on.

Chris: it *is* possible, but you're right, not by changing poly(phonic) to mono(phonic)!

Is there a way to change onboard voices to monaural? Yes, but it's not simple: you take an invisible DSP (like say, a digital delay with the lowest time setting you can set... less 1 millisecond (or less), for example). Then you route only 1 audio channel (left or right) into the DSP. Then you change the dry/wet mix to 100% wet... you'll end up with the mono version of the sound. However, that doesn't actually help in this case, as the original stereo image-designed sound is only getting the left or right channel (which is the same problem he already has)



I was referring to downloading monaural samples ; for example I remember seeing midi pirates having a stereo and a mono version of their pop piano (but they've been removed from Yamahamusicsoft.com.... maybe someone here purchased them before they went down?). I also remember someone mentioning CMS having a bunch of free sample downloads for Yamaha, and they have some mono (monaural) sampled brass (I can't remember which other categories). To sound good in mono, the sound usually needs to be designed for mono. Ironically, the s950 would already have you covered for the T4 drums., the T2 brass and strings.

Mark

[travlin-easy]

OK boys and girls - how do you like the sound of the voices I created?

Gary

[Toril S]

Hello Gary.
I have used those voices for a long time, and like them very much.

As for all this mono/aural stuff, - way over my head

[jimbell52]

Its make a big difference if you go with only  1  output or using both  left and right from the  keyboard .  I've found the  sound is so much better if you use  both outputs.  and,   also try switching  the  left and right  inputs on your amp.  to see what  sounds the best.