Author Topic: Organ sounds severe limitation  (Read 6697 times)

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Offline pjd

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #100 on: October 26, 2021, 08:29:30 PM »
Did someone post a link to good custom B3 sounds that could be loaded into the Genos through the dreaded YEM software?

Hi Lee --

I have the Easy Sounds "Organ Session" pack installed. "Organ Session" uses the in-built rotary speaker DSP effect. The pack contains new drawbar (individual and frequently used combinations) and percussion samples.

Easy Sounds also offers "Live Organ." The "Live Organ" pack has new samples, too, but the Leslie effect is recorded into the samples. I don't have any experience with "Live Organ" and chose "Organ Session" because it employs the DSP effect (which is tweakable).

Hope this helps -- pj

https://easysoundsshop.de/en/yamaha-electronic-keyboards/yamaha-genos/7/genos-organ-session-download
 

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #101 on: October 26, 2021, 08:34:38 PM »
Many thanks, PJ. I now remember seeing your post on this. I'll look into these.

Do you hear a substantial difference between the Organ Session samples and the Genos Organ Flutes with DSP?
 

Offline pjd

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #102 on: October 26, 2021, 11:26:01 PM »
Do you hear a substantial difference between the Organ Session samples and the Genos Organ Flutes with DSP?

Hi Lee --

Well, both Organ Session and Organ Flutes depend on the same rotary speaker DSP effects. Of course, Organ Session chooses the specific rotary speaker set-up in accord with its sound designer (Peter Krishker).

I just spent some time comparing A/B. I tried to take effects out of the comparison -- no reverb, same rotary speaker preset. I also tried to use the same drawbar registration, e.g., first three bars out.

Thus, the comparison comes down to the qualities of the Yamaha drawbars vs. the Organ Session drawbars. The difference is subtle. I would call the Genos drawbars cleaner than Organ Session. The Organ Session samples have a hint of overdrive and grit. It's like Yamaha recorded the samples direct while Organ Session mic'd a Leslie cabinet with the motors stopped. Organ Session is a little gutsier.

So, the big question -- Does Organ Session change my life?  :) I would say, "No." Organ Session is inexpensive enough, that I don't regret the purchase. I wish Organ Session had samples with C-3 -- none of the patch names suggest C-3. That would be a genuine addition to Genos which doesn't simulate the Hammond chorus/vibrato scanner. Would be great for gospel.

Would be interesting to compare against "Live Organ."

Gave old Lester K a listen, too. It's more than "Organ Session," but it might be a more lively alternative. Decisions, decisions. Lester K would be one more piece to take to the gig...

Hope this helps -- pj

 

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #103 on: October 27, 2021, 01:13:05 AM »
Great help, PJD. I appreciate your time and effort. I'm still considering a Lester G. (I rejected the Lester K because you can't control the acceleration parameter. Why is beyond me.)

I'm also toying with the idea of moving my Bose L1 Compacts that have served me well for 9 years. I'm looking at two new Bose L1 Pro 8s. They have a stronger midrange response and more power. The bass driver is more robust as well. They could be a game changer for better B3 sounds from the Genos. Thanks again.
 

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #104 on: October 28, 2021, 12:44:32 PM »
Dear Lee,

before purchasing Lester, I would suggest to consider Neo Instruments Ventilator II (Ventilator 2), that is much better on the high octaves (or/and with highest drawbars). Lester is ok, but on the treble organ sounds makes more a Vibrato than a real Leslie.

Here an interesting demo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxF_MkTWQYE

Ciao

Angelo
Yamaha Genos, Clavinova Cvp309PE, Hs-8, Hammond Xm2.
Past: Farfisa Minicompact, CompactDeLuxe; Elkarapsody; Hammond L122R&Leslie142; CasioCz1000; Roland D50, E20, ProE, Juno106, JX8P, Ra90; Technics Kn800, 1000, 2000; Korg M1, i3, i30, Pa1x, Pa3x; others.
 

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #105 on: October 28, 2021, 01:11:57 PM »
Thanks, Angelo. I'll look at the video ;).
 

Offline Rich Z

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #106 on: November 14, 2021, 06:03:41 AM »
Hi Lee --

I have the Easy Sounds "Organ Session" pack installed. "Organ Session" uses the in-built rotary speaker DSP effect. The pack contains new drawbar (individual and frequently used combinations) and percussion samples.

Easy Sounds also offers "Live Organ." The "Live Organ" pack has new samples, too, but the Leslie effect is recorded into the samples. I don't have any experience with "Live Organ" and chose "Organ Session" because it employs the DSP effect (which is tweakable).

Hope this helps -- pj

https://easysoundsshop.de/en/yamaha-electronic-keyboards/yamaha-genos/7/genos-organ-session-download

I've been listening this "Organ Session" offering, and I really like what I hear. I am using headphones and it appears to use a panning technique for the rotary effect, which is quite nice. What is interesting is that the Leslie tone cabinet ALWAYS has the speakers rotating, and they are never stopped when powered up. They are either slowly rotating, or at a faster speed when called upon. The panning effect seems to emulate what your ears hear from a real Leslie with that upper speaker basically transmitting the sound at one ear and then the other to produce a rotation effect.  I didn't really care much for the "Live Organ" offering.  Seemed like too abrupt of a transition between the slow speed and high speed rotation.

Unfortunately the website is in German, so I can't make heads nor tails out of what they are describing there. I have been looking for a link for an English translation, but so far haven't found it.  I would like to purchase it if I knew exactly what I would be purchasing.  Does this have to be installed via YEM?  I am assuming the install instructions would be in German too, so that wouldn't help me much.  :(

Anyone see a link to an English translation on that site so I could place an order if this seems like what I want? 
Genos, Korg Kronos, two left feet for hands.  :(
 

Offline Rich Z

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #107 on: November 14, 2021, 06:22:18 AM »
Ah! I found that little button for the English translation!!
Genos, Korg Kronos, two left feet for hands.  :(
 

Offline Rich Z

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #108 on: November 14, 2021, 06:35:51 AM »
Genos, Korg Kronos, two left feet for hands.  :(
 

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #109 on: November 14, 2021, 12:21:32 PM »
Yes, very impressive Rich. Sadly, they don't offer many demo tracks. What they do offer does sounds more grainy and authentic than the Genos samples.
 

Offline Rich Z

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #110 on: November 15, 2021, 04:37:46 PM »
Arghh, I'm not sure about buying from that EasySoundsShop place.  They are charging everyone that VAT tax regardless of whether the purchasers are required to pay it or not. Sort of feel like they are gouging us customers who don't need to pay it.  Sort of rubs me the wrong way, to be honest.  I might get over it, or I might not.
Genos, Korg Kronos, two left feet for hands.  :(
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #111 on: November 15, 2021, 08:04:31 PM »
Buyers in the US don't pay the VAT... only those in Europe pay.  If in doubt, contact them to confirm.

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Rich Z

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #112 on: November 15, 2021, 10:12:29 PM »
I was in doubt, since all of their prices indicate "Prices incl. VAT"

So I asked: "Since I am located in the USA, do you provide prices minus the VAT for a purchase I am considering? I believe I am not liable for that tax in the USA."

And they replied: "We decided to build our pricing based on a mixed calculation with the goal that every customer around the world pays the same price."

Just rubs me the wrong way. I guess I just recoil from the idea of paying any tax I am really not legally obligated to do so and some company wants to charge it to me anyway. Just me, I suppose.

So I have to decide whether I can live without their products or not. It is bad enough that I would have to spend my money to correct a deficiency in a Yamaha product, but this VAT thing is akin to rubbing salt in a wound, IMHO.

Genos, Korg Kronos, two left feet for hands.  :(
 

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #113 on: November 16, 2021, 02:04:38 PM »
Quote
And they replied: "We decided to build our pricing based on a mixed calculation with the goal that every customer around the world pays the same price."
That is shady. We have a similar tax in Canada called HST. It is 13%. I believe that when a visitor to our country makes a purchase, they receive a rebate for the tax. I don't know how this company can accurately calculate their prices so that everyone is treated fairly. There are just too many tax structures around the world to make this fair for everyone.
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #114 on: November 16, 2021, 02:09:35 PM »
It sounds like Easy Sounds has changed their pricing policy.  I have bought several packs from them in the past and wasn't charged the VAT.

 :(

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #115 on: November 16, 2021, 02:13:51 PM »
Agreed, Joe. I too have bought products out of the U.K. and were never charged the VAT. It sounds like the old shell game to me.
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #116 on: November 16, 2021, 03:31:56 PM »

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #117 on: November 16, 2021, 03:36:47 PM »
No I haven't Eileen. I shall. Many thanks!
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #118 on: November 16, 2021, 03:51:11 PM »
It sounds like Easy Sounds has changed their pricing policy.  I have bought several packs from them in the past and wasn't charged the VAT.

 :(

Joe H

I sent an email to Hans.  He gave a reasonable explanation. Since their packs are strictly a download, he explained that some people in Europe claimed to be in another part of the world/country to get around the VAT.  So they had to implement the new policy of charging everyone the same price that includes the VAT.

There are "cheaters" everywhere!

 >:(

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Offline Bill

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #119 on: November 16, 2021, 04:55:10 PM »
I think there is possibly some misunderstanding here.

If someone lists the UK or EU  they are entitled to purchase items without paying the VAT (providing they show their passport).  However they will need to declare the item when returning to their home country.

Purchases ONLINE are different - the seller is expected to charge the appropriate TAX for the purchaser's country.  For many small sellers this is quite difficult to work out what rate to apply.  The use of a VPN (to evade paying the appraise tax) is making things even more difficult for sellers to stay inboard to the law.

Bill
England

Current KB:  YAMAHA GENOS
 

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #120 on: November 16, 2021, 05:47:16 PM »
Have you tried any of these Lee
https://www.cms-sounddesign.com/freeware/organ-freeware/
Hi Eileen. I downloaded an organ voice. It is a .ppf file format. Do I use the YEM software to install this on my Genos? If so, which version do you recommend? I believe some are having major issues with the newest version. Thanks.
 

Offline Rich Z

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #121 on: November 16, 2021, 09:35:10 PM »
I sent an email to Hans.  He gave a reasonable explanation. Since their packs are strictly a download, he explained that some people in Europe claimed to be in another part of the world/country to get around the VAT.  So they had to implement the new policy of charging everyone the same price that includes the VAT.

There are "cheaters" everywhere!

 >:(

Joe H

I am wondering what their legal LIABILITY is for making that sort of a determination about where the buyer actually resides. They collect the VAT tax, where appropriate, and pass that tax onto the taxing agency, don't they?  But in this case, with evidence that the buyer was not liable for paying the VAT tax, what do they do with that money collected?  If someone claims to be outside of Europe's taxing authority, how much effort are they legally liable for to try to prove otherwise?

Sounds to me that their policy is kind of a "guilty even if proven innocent" sort of arrangement concerning tax liability for Europe.

I have bought items from Europe before, even some gardening tools that I could not get within the USA, and I never had to pay VAT before.  I guess I am not going to change that now, and will do without their products.  It is not going to come out of my pocket just to make things easier for them figuring out their taxing requirements.

Oh well, their choice on how they run their own business, I guess.  I decline to participate.

KApro has a really nice organ voice offering. Do they sell through anyone else but Easy Sounds? I wasn't able to find much searching online except for a facebook page.  And I deleted my facebook account a year or so ago.
Genos, Korg Kronos, two left feet for hands.  :(
 

Offline Rich Z

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #122 on: November 16, 2021, 10:30:41 PM »
Hi Eileen. I downloaded an organ voice. It is a .ppf file format. Do I use the YEM software to install this on my Genos? If so, which version do you recommend? I believe some are having major issues with the newest version. Thanks.

Which one(s) did you like?  The couple of demo videos I watched and listened to didn't tell me much about the rotary transitions.

I would hate to have to use YEM just to install all the expansion modules to really demo them.  :(
Genos, Korg Kronos, two left feet for hands.  :(
 

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #123 on: November 16, 2021, 10:36:31 PM »
Hi Rich,

I downloaded just the one. It's the CMS-Hammond-B3-Freeware.ppf. That may not tell you anything. I'm not really enthused about using the YEM software. I wish Yamaha would ditch it and design something much simpler, that is, less Japan and more America. I'm not a big Microsoft fan but once you learn their systems...
 

Offline Mike2

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #124 on: November 16, 2021, 10:43:44 PM »
Why all this time on organ sounds.  I can't figure it out. This is a Genos keyboard, the best in the world. I thought organ music was dead!  I mean when organs were the instrument of sound, maybe yes, organ players had a point. But give us keyboard players some credit.  Who would in there right minds want to hear organ sounds. Not being disrespectful to those organ players. But if you love organ sounds that much, buy an organ...not an instrument like a Genos, which does so many things, which sound better than your vintage organs. I just cannot see the relationship between an organ and a Genos Keyboard. It's like apple and oranges...like the old saying goes. Most people on this forum seem so hung up on anything, that has nothing to do with a Genos Keyboard.

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #125 on: November 16, 2021, 11:36:51 PM »
Mike2, I respect your opinion and you are right about the Genos being a stellar instrument for so many other genres that require voices other than organs.

On the other hand, when you play in an R&B band you need the best B3s you can get. After shelling out $6,500 for the Genos, there isn't much money left for buying a dedicated organ type keyboard - especially with nearly 2 years of drought due to Covid. Besides, why should we? For that kind of money, the thing better shine in ALL areas. The Genos organs aren't terrible but they could be better. The point of this topic was to see if that was possible - not to just stop playing all music that requires an organ voice.

Perhaps those who listen to the crappy thump music "manufactured" today have no use for organ sounds. Meanwhile, those who play real music like Blues, Jazz, Country, and R&B beg to differ.

As for your comment, "Most people on this forum seem so hung up on anything, that has nothing to do with a Genos Keyboard"...you're out of line.

Offline EileenL

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #126 on: November 16, 2021, 11:57:39 PM »
Hi Lee,
 Yes you save the ppf file in the YEM. I still use version 7 as 8 works much slower. Why not download a few of there different sounds and make a pack to ;load into your keyboard.

Offline Rich Z

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #127 on: November 17, 2021, 12:48:15 AM »
Why all this time on organ sounds.  I can't figure it out. This is a Genos keyboard, the best in the world. I thought organ music was dead!  I mean when organs were the instrument of sound, maybe yes, organ players had a point. But give us keyboard players some credit.  Who would in there right minds want to hear organ sounds. Not being disrespectful to those organ players. But if you love organ sounds that much, buy an organ...not an instrument like a Genos, which does so many things, which sound better than your vintage organs. I just cannot see the relationship between an organ and a Genos Keyboard. It's like apple and oranges...like the old saying goes. Most people on this forum seem so hung up on anything, that has nothing to do with a Genos Keyboard.

Well, heck, instead of buying a Genos and then only buying a Hammond B3, why stop there and also buy a grand piano, multiple types of electric pianos, upright pianos,  saxophones, multiple types of brass and woodwinds, guitars, drums and every other instrument that most people bought the Genos to emulate in their playing?   After all, aren't all those instruments just as dead now since electronics has replaced them (apparently in your opinion)?  You DO know that the organ voices in the Genos can be utilized as accompaniment in the styles on the Genos, don't you? And LOTS of songs in the past used organs a LOT, did they not?

Seriously fella, just what is the Genos supposed to be FOR, if not to emulate all those various instruments while playing styles that USE those instruments in the renditions that the players want to have?  You would be happy with a Fender guitar sounding like a ukelele or a banjo? A saxophone sounding like just buzzing your lips through a PVC pipe? Drums that sound like someone beating on a 55 gallon drum and trashcan lids?  Well, some of us who know what a real Hammond organ through a Leslie tone cabinet really sounds like want an expensive instrument like the Genos professing to provide such sounds being authentic to actually do so.

Sorry, if you can't "figure this out".  But maybe, just maybe, the fault isn't with us.  Just sayin'.

Genos, Korg Kronos, two left feet for hands.  :(
 
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Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #128 on: November 17, 2021, 01:13:16 AM »
Hi Lee,
 Yes you save the ppf file in the YEM. I still use version 7 as 8 works much slower. Why not download a few of there different sounds and make a pack to ;load into your keyboard.
Thanks, Eileen. I'll do that. There are a few other good organ voices on that site I would like to try.
 

Offline Rich Z

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #129 on: November 17, 2021, 02:04:19 AM »
FYI, I used YEM v 2.7 with the wireless interface and that seemed to work well, as far as I can tell.  Can't say I would want to do that just to add one or two voices or other modules at a time, however.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2021, 03:40:02 AM by Rich Z »
Genos, Korg Kronos, two left feet for hands.  :(
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #130 on: November 17, 2021, 11:52:20 AM »
It is very easy to do this and if it gives you the voices you want it is worth taking a few minutes  doing it. I have made up several packs this way including the SFX ones which are good for certain music and occasions.

Offline pjd

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #131 on: November 18, 2021, 12:32:03 AM »
IK Multimedia has the Hammond B-3X virtual instrument app on sale through December 7, 2021. IK partnered with Hammond.

I gave in to temptation.  :)  First impression is "Wow!" Warning, it is a price-y app, but still cheaper than the Mac/PC versions. Would love to have this level of emulation on Genos natively.

Of course, this means MIDI'ing an iPad to your instrument, mixing audio, etc.

Hope this helps -- pj

https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/hammondb3xipad/
 
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Offline soryt

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #132 on: November 18, 2021, 12:34:57 PM »
A lot cheaper app for the I Pad is the Galileo Organ app ,i have it tested and used it on the Genos . it sounds very good and a lot of good Rotary effects and presets
But nothing beats a real drawbar keyboard in use like the Hammond, Nord , and alot of other brands , avery nice  and good alternative is the Crumar Module > https://www.crumar.it/?a=showproduct&b=38

http://yonac.com/galileo2/index.php

Soneg
 

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #133 on: November 18, 2021, 01:21:37 PM »
PJ, the price is $59, which I find reasonable. Do you know if it works on Samsung Androids? They specify iPad in the literature but also mention "mobile iOS tablet." Can I assume it's for Android as well?

How do we MIDI from an Android to the Genos? There must be a special cable. Another problem is, I need my Android for my charts. Toggling between the Hammond emulator and charts would be a nightmare in a real show.

I wish I had put out the extra cash for an iPad. I find the Android touch screen very slow in comparison to iPad. You sometimes need to tap or swipe two or three times. I've never had to do that with an iPad!

Thanks.

Edit
I may have answered my own question. From their FAQ page:

Will my app purchases transfer between iOS, Android, and Mac/Windows versions?
It is not possible to transfer an app purchase or any in-app purchases between various versions of our apps on different platforms such as iOS (iPhone/iPad), Android (phones/tablets), or Mac/Windows computers.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2021, 01:25:00 PM by Lee Batchelor »
 

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #134 on: November 18, 2021, 07:07:29 PM »
Dear Pjd,

I followed your link to IK Multimedia, and surfed their very interesting site, listening to the demo of the Hammond B-3X software.

I was completely astonished! The quality of sounds is unbelievable, and the Leslie simulation (including the ramp up/down effect) is the best among various available clones.
Consider that I had a real Hammond (L122R) and a real Leslie cabinet, and actually I'm using an excellent Hammond-Suzuki module and controller (Hammond XM2+ XM2c) as for the demo I posted in this discussion.
But what I heard from IK Multimedia goes IMHO over any clone I experienced. And for a very reasonable price too.

Two things are not very clear to me from the demo and specifications, but I'll get in touch with IK Multimedia guys next week: may drawbars and Leslie speed be controlled by touch screen? what additional devices one needs to connect the tablet to Genos? besides iOS (Apple) and Windows, there is a version for Android?

Thank you so much for this precious info  :D

Ciao

Angelo
Yamaha Genos, Clavinova Cvp309PE, Hs-8, Hammond Xm2.
Past: Farfisa Minicompact, CompactDeLuxe; Elkarapsody; Hammond L122R&Leslie142; CasioCz1000; Roland D50, E20, ProE, Juno106, JX8P, Ra90; Technics Kn800, 1000, 2000; Korg M1, i3, i30, Pa1x, Pa3x; others.
 

Offline pjd

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #135 on: November 18, 2021, 07:17:07 PM »
Hi Lee --

Sorry to say, it's only iPad/IOS right now. I looked under IK's list of Android apps, and the Hammond B-3X is not listed.

My knowledge of Android is out-of-date, but Android MIDI support tended to lag IOS. Apple has some business practices that drive me crazy, but I went with iPad as it seems to be favored for music making apps.

One drawback that I've hit so far -- the B-3X seems to pay attention to only one Bluetooth MIDI device at a time. So, I get either my Korg Microkey Air keyboard controller or I get the Boss/Roland wireless MIDI expression pedal. I may need to get yet another app like Audiobus to solve this issue. Korg's Module Pro app gets it right, receiving and merging MIDI from both the keyboard and the expression pedal. I'm trying to eliminate as many cables as I can...

All the best -- pj
 

Offline pjd

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #136 on: November 18, 2021, 07:30:51 PM »
Two things are not very clear to me from the demo and specifications, but I'll get in touch with IK Multimedia guys next week: may drawbars and Leslie speed be controlled by touch screen? what additional devices one needs to connect the tablet to Genos? besides iOS (Apple) and Windows, there is a version for Android?

Hi Angelo --

No Android version, I'm afraid.

Yes, drawbars and rotary speed can be controlled by touching the screen. Rotary speed responds to modulation (MIDI CC#0) right out of the box. The B-3X app has a settings screen where the user can define the MIDI CC# for rotary speed and all of the drawbars. So, it should be possible to send drawbar control messages from Genos. I haven't tried it since I'm experimenting with a wireless rig.

As to Genos connections, one could go either wired or wireless. Wired connection needs an iPad USB interface and a USB cable. Or, if you have a 5-pin DIN MIDI interface for the tablet, connect via MIDI cable. Wireless connection needs a Bluetooth interface on the Genos side like the Yamaha UD-BT01 or MD-BT01.

Hope this info helps.

The sound knocked me out. Jim Alfredson is one of my favorite demonstrators:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPn61Hmy1CU

Also, Katsunori Ujiie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynYIrs72gFg
https://blog.musictrack.jp/posts/9530

Wish I could play like those guys.  :o ;D

-- pj
« Last Edit: November 18, 2021, 07:32:11 PM by pjd »
 

Offline sugarplumsss

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #137 on: November 22, 2021, 09:27:10 PM »
To Lee or anyone else

if you know what a real B3 Leslie... very very few substitutes will satisfy.

I've come to accept this.

I HAVE a little used Italian Crumar ( about 7-8 years old )  2 manual organ clone, that players have in the past raved about.
I approximately used on a gig maybe 25 times
I have not used it since
It is in the original gig bag with wheels from Crumar

Im not a techie... I just gave up on this board.
I forgot the initial money I spent but around $3000
plus I bought and NEVER USED their leslie efx box - retailing for $400
and never used bass pedals

I want to sell it all
Make me an offer

Crumar Mojo Classic Dual Manual Organ






« Last Edit: November 22, 2021, 09:32:03 PM by sugarplumsss »
I use T4 as a drum machine. Playing my own acmp and bass. MIDI songs are my latest interest. If anyone wishes to share knowledge on MIDI songs let me know.
 

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #138 on: November 22, 2021, 10:06:24 PM »
To Lee or anyone else
if you know what a real B3 Leslie... very very few substitutes will satisfy.
I've come to accept this.
I HAVE a little used Italian Crumar ( about 7-8 years old )  2 manual organ clone, that players have in the past raved about.
I approximately used on a gig maybe 25 times
I have not used it since
It is in the original gig bag with wheels from Crumar
Im not a techie... I just gave up on this board.
I forgot the initial money I spent but around $3000
plus I bought and NEVER USED their leslie efx box - retailing for $400
and never used bass pedals

I want to sell it all
Make me an offer

Crumar Mojo Classic Dual Manual Organ
Thanks for replying. I'm in Canada and it would likely cost a ton of money to ship it here. The one thing forums should display is the country where members reside. That way, we know what pertains to us. Thanks again!
 

Offline sugarplumsss

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #139 on: November 23, 2021, 03:49:03 AM »
I donít know if this unrelated question belongs in this thread
Let me know

I own t4 for ten years. A real love hate was going
As time has passed Iíve grown used to it

I played a genos and was not overwhelmed

Can you give some impressions ( remembering this is hardly one single Instrument, but many instruments - thus I say. Please Provide multiple impressions ) as a former tyros guy now playing genos

Iím mainly interested in the tonal timbral
impressions the strings, ac pianos, elec pianos , basses, guitars brass etc etc etc
Have made on you.
Thanks
 
I use T4 as a drum machine. Playing my own acmp and bass. MIDI songs are my latest interest. If anyone wishes to share knowledge on MIDI songs let me know.
 

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #140 on: November 23, 2021, 01:16:49 PM »
I donít know if this unrelated question belongs in this thread
Let me know

I own t4 for ten years. A real love hate was going
As time has passed Iíve grown used to it

I played a genos and was not overwhelmed

Can you give some impressions ( remembering this is hardly one single Instrument, but many instruments - thus I say. Please Provide multiple impressions ) as a former tyros guy now playing genos

Iím mainly interested in the tonal timbral
impressions the strings, ac pianos, elec pianos , basses, guitars brass etc etc etc
Have made on you.
Thanks
Hi Sugarplumsss,

Many of us played dual manual organs before being introduced to the arranger style keyboard. When we took delivery of these organs, we plugged them in and they sounded great. The designers had optimized the sound for the voices that were included with the organ, to match it's speaker system. It was a true ďplug and playĒ instrument. Then the arranger keyboard came out in the mid-80s. It was very similar. You plugged it in and the sound was very good through the little included speakers. As time went on, companies refined the voices and added audio processing. By the time the Tyros was released, arrangers had evolved into near professional-level keyboards. The Genos certainly did. What does all this mean? A Genos is ďplayableĒ right out of the box, just like our good old dual manual organs but it doesnít necessarily ďsound its best.Ē The voicings and samples have evolved to unprecedented levels. You must ask yourself:
  • What speakers will I use to play the Genos?
  • Will I play it in a large or small room?
  • Am I playing by myself or will I entertain with it?
  • What kinds of music will I being playing most of the time?
Answering these questions is how you will shape the Genos sound to your liking. If you play the Genos over the optional Yamaha speakers, you may not be very impressed. Some users claim they are excellent while others say they are a waste of money. When you first heard a Genos, what speakers were used? Who played it?

I have always played my Genos over very expensive speakers. I own two Bose performance speakers, the L1 Pro 8 models. In my studio, I play the Genos over two Yamaha HS-8 studio monitors. Neither of these speakers are low cost. They are high-end professional level speakers. However, even when playing my Genos over these speakers it doesnít stop there. I still must use the internal tone controls, effects, EQ , and other tools to ďshapeĒ the sound how I want for the music I play. This is where the Genos really shines. They have so many presets for all these sound shaping tools but if you donít like what Yamaha did, you can modify those tools to your liking.

I suspect you heard the Genos in its raw form. It sounded all right but didnít impress you enough to make you buy it. Out of the box, the Genos sounds like a mild improvement over the Tyros 5. When you start to deep dive the sounds, thatís when things really change. You can shape the sounds and overall output to blow the Tyros 5 away. It's a lot of work but worth it. After my first few shows with my Genos, I had a lot of people come up to me and ask what kind of keyboard I was playing. That only happened once with my Tyros 5. I was playing my Genos through two Bose L1 Compacts (not nearly as good as the Pro 8 models) and a 15 inch subwoofer of my own design.

So, thereís no easy answer because there are so many variables. I have always dealt with a music store chain in Canada that allows you to buy any instrument on a 30 day approval. Thatís the way all music stores should operate. You can't sit in a music store for an hour and assess a Genos when there's all kinds of noise going on around you. You must demonstrate it in your own environment. If you ever get the chance to do that, Iím sure youíll be impressed with what you hear after you play with the sound settings. If you ever get to that point, we can help you shape the sounds. Many of us have done the homework and are glad to share what works for us.

Hope this helps :).
- Lee
« Last Edit: November 23, 2021, 01:18:57 PM by Lee Batchelor »
 
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Offline sugarplumsss

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #141 on: November 25, 2021, 04:29:37 PM »
What store is selling Genos - price point- wait time ( supply chain related question )
?

You are clearly saying Genos is superior. I hear you. You also started this thread about the fabled B3 Leslie.

You are saying Genos is better, but I assume not so much the B3 family of sounds.

That's my assumption; this is why I wanted more specific sounds/ instruments, that you affirm are better than T4  T5.

I had previously heard ( this was over 2 years ago ) that the Genos strings did not overwhelm some users. Maybe that phrase, "some users" , is the phrase we can use anytime! Meaning.. a particular person can be found who would not like the EP's. Another not impressed with the Genos Ac pianos. etc etc.
So back to you... which families of instruments, truly impress you over previous Tyros?

Eg. I heard the drums are clearly superior.
$6000+ is a lot of money. And these questions are about money versus aesthetic satisfaction.

Are you cool giving quick opinion on each family of instruments?
EP'
Clav
Ac Piano
Strings
Drums
Drum patterns
Guitars AC
Electric

Then there is this
When playing all the right hand sounds, say, in a solo where you seek a large sound,, versus a solo sound. eg, Keyboards layered with a synth, versus a solo synth.. or a big band sound versus a solo sax or trumpet

Playing the t4 in the larger ensemble mode, I get this feeling of slight distorted sound, as if the t4 is being asked to do more than it is really comfortable at.

I was hoping the Genos would better accommodate those tutti type ensembles.

Thank you for responding to my earlier questions.
I use T4 as a drum machine. Playing my own acmp and bass. MIDI songs are my latest interest. If anyone wishes to share knowledge on MIDI songs let me know.
 

Offline Joe H

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #142 on: November 30, 2021, 01:42:35 AM »
FYI for anyone interested... Easy Sounds is have a 30% off sale starting November 30th through December 2nd.   So if you don't like paying the VAT, this sale should eliminate that cost.  Easy Sounds accepts payment with PayPal so no credit card info is required.  I think there are demo MP3s of the Organ pack(s)

Joe H
Music is the Universal Language!

My Article: Using Multi Pads in registrations. Download Regs, Styles & MPs:  http://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/dancemusic.html
 

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #143 on: November 30, 2021, 02:20:40 AM »
Thanks, Joe!
 

Offline Rich Z

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #144 on: November 30, 2021, 09:01:37 PM »
I can't recall if this was mentioned before, and I am too lazy to read through the entire thread to find out, but this is an interesting writeup about this Yamaha Leslie emulation problem.  -> http://sandsoftwaresound.net/tag/yamaha-genos/

Genos, Korg Kronos, two left feet for hands.  :(
 

Offline pjd

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #145 on: December 01, 2021, 12:24:06 AM »
Thanks, Rich. I hope Yamaha gives attention to B-3 organ improvements.

I since purchased and tried IK Multimedia B-3X. It puts Korg Module to shame! I haven't had time to make a similar comparison re: B-3X vs. Genos, but many of the same comments and limitations would apply.

Take care -- pj

 

Offline Oxford1035

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #146 on: December 01, 2021, 01:36:30 AM »
Has anyone bought the Easysound organ sessions? How much space would it take up on YEM pack?

Kind regards,

Russ
 

Offline Rich Z

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #147 on: December 01, 2021, 10:31:25 PM »
FYI for anyone interested... Easy Sounds is have a 30% off sale starting November 30th through December 2nd.   So if you don't like paying the VAT, this sale should eliminate that cost.  Easy Sounds accepts payment with PayPal so no credit card info is required.  I think there are demo MP3s of the Organ pack(s)

Joe H

Hmm, thanks for the heads up!  I have to admit, I am tempted....
Genos, Korg Kronos, two left feet for hands.  :(
 

Offline pjd

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #148 on: December 02, 2021, 07:37:16 PM »
Has anyone bought the Easysound organ sessions? How much space would it take up on YEM pack?

Hi Russ --

The Organ Session PPI install file is about 106MBytes. The documentation states 100MBytes of new samples.

Hope this helps -- pj
 
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Online overover

Re: Organ sounds severe limitation
« Reply #149 on: December 02, 2021, 09:07:30 PM »
Has anyone bought the Easysound organ sessions? How much space would it take up on YEM pack?

Kind regards,

Russ

Hi Russ,

the Easy Sounds "Organ Session" Pack takes up 103 MB in Expansion Voice Wave Memory (plus the 20 MB that are required once by the system).


Best regards,
Chris
Everyone always said: "This is not possible!" - Then someone came and ... just did it!
 
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