Author Topic: Middle part of a song sounds nothing like the intro  (Read 677 times)

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Offline BOAC

Middle part of a song sounds nothing like the intro
« on: October 03, 2021, 01:03:02 PM »
Hi All. It’s me, I know it’s me I’m doing something wrong.  :-[
Let me pick a specific example of the SX900 sounds, so you can replicate my thoughts.
It concerns selecting a song, any song, listening to the wonderful intro and the registration sounds that you play bare no resemblance to the instrument’s in that intro, or the closing.
The net effect is you start with this brilliant intro and in a lot of cases a mish mash of sounds when you actually play.
Am I doing something wrong or is this how the 900 is intended?
Take the song “there’s no business like show business” lovely into, full orchestra sound, you carry on with an orch/woodwind orch/bassoon and xylophone and some waa was on the LH, sound nothing like the intro of the closing.
What am I missing? Or most likely, doing wrong ?
Nick

Offline Toril S

Re: Middle part of a song sounds nothing like the intro
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2021, 01:40:28 PM »
Ha ha, yes, this is well known to keyboard players! The intros and endings are actually small MIDI files, constructed with a lot of effects, megavoices and such. They sound fantastic, and then you start to play the verse of the song, and it all sounds thin, and you wonder what is wrong. In many csased we are best off playing our oun intros, or maybe find an intro that is not so flashy.
Unless you are a Yamaha keyboard demonstrator, they always seem to get this to work seamlessly :)
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline RONBO

Re: Middle part of a song sounds nothing like the intro
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2021, 01:51:10 PM »
Good morning ;

In a case such as this one I will use intro 1 or perhaps 2. I try them both with perhaps Main Variation 2 or 3.

In other words, a less complicated intro and a more complicated main variation to start off the song.

Then carry on to your heart's delight.


Regards,

Ron
PSR Performer Page                                  IT'S EASY TO BE THE SHIP'S CAPTAIN WHEN THE  SEAS ARE CALM

Proud Genos owner

Former boards  PSR2100, PSR 910, TYROS 4 and TYROS 5
 

Offline BOAC

Re: Middle part of a song sounds nothing like the intro
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2021, 01:12:48 AM »
AHA, Thank you for the explanation.
>>The intros and endings are actually small MIDI files,
<< Are they replaceable ? can they be edited ?

Do all of These arranger keyboards suffer from the same problem ? Genos the same ??

Nick
 

Offline mikf

Re: Middle part of a song sounds nothing like the intro
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2021, 09:03:00 AM »
BOAC
You are using the word ‘song’ when you really mean ‘style’. There is no song on the keyboard called  “There’s no Business like Show Business”.  What there is, is a suggested style for that song. The only songs on the keyboards other than a few demos are the ones YOU play and record.
Styles are generalized backing tracks for you to play along with, and they should never be too complicated, because -
1. They need to be used for many songs, not just one
2. They are short in length and have to repeat over and over and would sound very artificial if over complicated.

There are a lot of quite elaborate intros attached to styles on these arrangers, and they may sound impressive - they  are in fact often designed to impress new players - but frankly they have quite limited use because they might only fit one song. In fact better players seldom use canned intros or only use the very simplest one, or make their own. As you have discovered it can sound a bit silly to have a very elaborate intro followed by pretty basic playing!
As regards OTS, these are someone else’s suggested lead voices for that style. That is pretty arbitrary. OTS is a useful function if you  want it, but if you don’t like it, then pick your own voices. You can save these as a new OTS or a registration for  that song. This is a musical instrument, so you have to do things for yourself, to suit your own taste, to fit that song, or just to be different.
If you want highly elaborate backing tracks all the way through, rather than generic styles, then you would have to make them or buy them, either highly customized styles or recorded backing tracks. Professionals sometimes do this to achieve a very studio sounding result in live playing, especially if they sing.
But most players use these arrangers to just play along with styles.

Mike


« Last Edit: October 04, 2021, 10:38:56 AM by mikf »
 

Offline Toril S

Re: Middle part of a song sounds nothing like the intro
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2021, 09:16:28 AM »
Yes, and intros and endings can be replaced, but then you will have to learn to do that in style creator.
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline mikf

Re: Middle part of a song sounds nothing like the intro
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2021, 10:57:53 AM »
Yes, and intros and endings can be replaced, but then you will have to learn to do that in style creator.
And that is not trivial!
In any case his original post is commenting on the style and OTS rather than the intro. And the answer to his question is that all styles on all arrangers work in a broadly similar way. And styles don’t get more elaborate on more expensive keyboards because for the reasons I stated very elaborate styles are not always ideal. They are also pretty interchangeable over all arrangers anyway, certainly most Yamaha arrangers regardless of price. Whether you like a style or not is more about personal preference than cost or brand.
Mike
« Last Edit: October 04, 2021, 01:05:54 PM by mikf »
 

Offline Jeff_M

Re: Middle part of a song sounds nothing like the intro
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2021, 11:48:02 AM »
I don't use intros and endings all the time because in some cases they are much more elaborate than anything I could EVER play, and not having a desire to expose this weakness (at least when gigging) there are times I won't use them.  At other times they work quite nicely.  Just depends on the tune. 

Offline jcook980

Re: Middle part of a song sounds nothing like the intro
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2021, 12:58:34 AM »
The easiest way to "simplify" the intros and endings is to go into the mixer and mute the channels with the elaborate "fluff" you don't want to hear. The mixer settings get saved when you save a registration.
---

Jim
PSR-SX900
 

Offline Ed B

Re: Middle part of a song sounds nothing like the intro
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2021, 08:17:30 PM »
Hi
Just my thoughts:
There is no reason that the middle of a song must sound like the intro.
The purpose of the intro in arranging is to get the audiences attention and set the scene for the next sections of the song.
Yamaha styles give you 3 intros you can use and adjust to meet these objectives. The questions to be dealt with.
- How will I get their attention. ( Single instrument to Big loud instrumentation)
- What instruments will they hear first
- How will it fit in with the rest off the song
You have 3 choices of intro which can be modified fade in, turning off channels in the mixer section and capturing in a registration, or you can customize an intro even further in the style creator. Similar choices apply to the other sections of the song where you choose the variations and melody and can thicken and thin using the mixer and choice of melody instruments
The objective to end up with an exciting arrangement.
Regards
Ed B
 
« Last Edit: October 23, 2021, 08:18:40 PM by Ed B »
Keep on learning
 

Offline Toril S

Re: Middle part of a song sounds nothing like the intro
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2021, 10:17:45 PM »
All very true Ed! Another tip is to use the dominant voice in the intro as your first voice when playing the song. For instance, if the intro has a soft guitar it would maybe be more fitting to play the first verse with a soft guitar then blazing away with a loud horn. Unless you wnat it to be taht way to make the audience wake up :)
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline mikf

Re: Middle part of a song sounds nothing like the intro
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2021, 11:58:33 PM »
Or you can learn to play your own intros and endings, either just using a “beat in” or intro 1 to get the accmpnt started leading into your own intro.
Mike
« Last Edit: October 24, 2021, 03:43:36 PM by mikf »