Author Topic: Peter Baartmans video - what style?  (Read 1198 times)

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Offline jcm2016

Peter Baartmans video - what style?
« on: September 14, 2021, 06:22:01 PM »
Hello - in this video (https://youtu.be/vIEZIGEmccE) is Peter playing along to a midi file?   It seems like there are more changes with perfect transitions than if he went though the style variations.   Or maybe a series of registrations?   He's such a fluid player that I can't tell how much is improvised vs prepared!

Thanks in advance.

Edit: Topic title edited by Roger Brenizer
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 02:43:09 AM by Roger Brenizer »
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Peter Baarans video - what style?
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2021, 06:29:35 PM »
Peter is playing along to a backing track.

Offline jcm2016

Re: Peter Baarans video - what style?
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2021, 06:51:39 PM »
Thank you.   What's the difference between a backing track and a MIDI file?
 

Offline rene

Re: Peter Baarans video - what style?
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2021, 08:11:40 PM »
backing track is a wav. or mp3 file
midifile juste midi infos , no sound
sorry for my english , i'm french
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Peter Baarans video - what style?
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2021, 11:45:02 PM »
No Difference. Backing tracks are usually pre recorded by the artist to play along with as you only have two hands and can't do it all on a big arrangement live.

Re: Peter Baartmans video - what style?
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2021, 01:24:01 PM »
Peter is an absolutely stellar player. I've watched many of his demo videos. I think he mostly plays with the existing styles but it would be nice if he would tell his listeners when he's using a backing track. Doing so would prevent users from expecting more from the Genos than they can ordinarily achieve with just the styles and would also demonstrate the incredible potential of the Genos by recording your backing track first, and then playing along with it.

Perhaps he has mentioned it in his videos in a different language. The man speaks about four languages ;D!
« Last Edit: September 24, 2021, 01:25:15 PM by Lee Batchelor »
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Peter Baartmans video - what style?
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2021, 02:05:09 PM »
Hi
What a lot of people think is that a keyboard player with the likes of a Genos is not playing everything and think that it is cheating.
All instrumentalists in a band just play a single a instrument and they are considered geniuses.
As Eileen says , we only have one pair of hands.
If you think of the USA band  Boston. it only consists of Tom Shultz.
He plays every instrument and sings also, so he has to hire a band to play with him on stage   
The Third Stage album is incredible and it took him a few years to make that album.
You can make your own backing tracks and that will only enhance your performance.
The funny thing that i read once was that Tangerine Dream the electronic band had all of their performances midied up.
If one of the players was feeling a little under the weather he would mute the tracks and play pretend with a big smile on his face.. ::) :P :-[ ;D
Most bands today and the past used backing tracks onstage even Pink Floyd tribute bands. Time to go!!, time to Goho!!!!! 8)

All the Best
John :)
« Last Edit: September 24, 2021, 02:07:09 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Re: Peter Baartmans video - what style?
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2021, 03:53:02 PM »
John, its nice to hear that even the big players rely on "electronic help" periodically.

I read somewhere that Stevie Wonder's original release of Superstition was entirely scored by him playing different sounds on his synth. The reason was he couldn't get the right feel with the players of his day. So, he did it all by himself. Amazing!
 

Offline Oxford1035

Re: Peter Baartmans video - what style?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2021, 01:17:32 AM »
To clear up any confusion, l've been lucky enough to see Peter play a couple of times now. He openly states at the outset that he uses backing tracks that he's recorded himself.

Kind regards,

Russ
 

Re: Peter Baartmans video - what style?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2021, 02:52:18 AM »
Good to know, Russ. You're lucky to have seen him in person. I'd love to chat with him :)!
 

Offline J. Larry

Re: Peter Baartmans video - what style?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2021, 04:06:04 AM »
I’ve been playing arrangers for years, presently with the SX 900.  I pre-record the midi backing tracks for all my songs using the onboard styles.  That, obviously, frees-up the hands for playing/soloing and more concentration on vocals.  Works great, with never a comment about “cheating”, or similar response.  I can recall only one video, where a Yamaha specialist pointed out this particular advantage of playing live, with pre-recorded backing tracks created with the onboard styles.  Can’t recall his name, but it was an “official” Yamaha video.
 

Offline mikf

Re: Peter Baartmans video - what style?
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2021, 09:48:36 AM »
Styles are great but have limitations, and there is no question that a well made backing track can sound superior, less repetitive. But it’s a lot of work to make them and they are a bit less flexible than styles. Pros and cons.
If you are a paid performer and you are going to play with one finger then you are going to look like you are cheating, regardless if it is styles or backing track.
Peter Baartmans is certainly not 'cheating' here. Peter is a really good player and musician and a great asset for Yamaha, but then he is a full time professional and you would expect people in his position to be at least this good. His all round presentation style is excellent and probably sets him apart from many other excellent players. There are tens of thousands, maybe hundred of thousands of really amazing keyboard players out there. That's why it's so hard to make a living and land a nice post like Peter.
Mike

« Last Edit: September 25, 2021, 11:10:48 AM by mikf »
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Peter Baartmans video - what style?
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2021, 11:00:28 AM »
I think what most people mean by Cheating is playing along to a professional Midi File and saying it is your own. This for me is a no no but these keyboards have the facility of recording your own backings or multi tracking them. This is then your own work and is all part of your performance. It also shows that you understand what is needed to enhance your performance.

Offline mikf

Re: Peter Baartmans video - what style?
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2021, 11:14:44 AM »
Disagree Eileen, what the public see as cheating is playing keyboard music that sounds great while you actually appear to be playing with one or two fingers! They don't know or care if it is a style or backing track, or who made it. You might get away with this if you add a great vocal, but otherwise ......
Mike
« Last Edit: September 25, 2021, 02:44:23 PM by mikf »
 

Offline J. Larry

Re: Peter Baartmans video - what style?
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2021, 03:40:29 PM »
In my case, I create my own intro’s to get away from the repetitiveness of auto intro’s, then, mute the piano track and play along with the arrangement that I've created with the onboard styles. Don’t know if that’s cheating, or not, but it works well for me.  Once, while playing live on guitar with Band In A Box, I had a man lean over my shoulder to glance at the computer screen.  He said, with a laugh, “Hey, that’s cheating”. 
 

Re: Peter Baartmans video - what style?
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2021, 03:52:58 PM »
I agree with Eileen. It's only cheating when you use someone else's MIDI creation and call it yours. I have spent thousands of hours pre-scoring for theater using Cubase and a few synthesizers, and I can tell you that if you can create your own backing track, even on the Genos, you have talent that a lot of people don't have. That's not cheating. It's a musical gift that your listeners will love.

Just because you're not playing everything live doesn't mean your cheating. At one point in your studio, you DID play it live ;D. The audience just wasn't around to hear you do it!
 

Offline EileenL

Re: Peter Baartmans video - what style?
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2021, 04:10:59 PM »
Exactly Lee.
  Anything you produce on your keyboard is your work and that is why we have the ability on these keyboards to do these things. It is not cheating, but using someone  else's work to earn money at gigs is and also very unfair if the creator dose not get a mention.

Offline mikf

Re: Peter Baartmans video - what style?
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2021, 05:46:37 PM »
Think you are kidding yourselves folks. Peter B is playing along with a backing track, but no-one is going to think he is cheating because he is obviously playing, and playing the lead part very well. But if all the wonderful music was coming out and he was obviously not really playing the audience perception would be negative. Claiming someone is not cheating because they made the recording wouldn’t cut it
Like John says earlier in the thread, in live bands musicians play only their own part, but the key is that they do play it. They don’t pretend to play it. I saw Frankie Valli just before the pandemic, and had a front row seat. It was obvious he was mostly miming all the hard parts. You think that’s not cheating even if the original recording he was miming to was his?
Mike
« Last Edit: September 26, 2021, 09:43:15 AM by mikf »
 

Offline fine

Re: Peter Baartmans video - what style?
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2021, 09:53:07 PM »
Just because you're not playing everything live doesn't mean your cheating. At one point in your studio, you DID play it live ;D. The audience just wasn't around to hear you do it!

Do you like this ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqc9_-SWoOM
Even though it has been written by the same person ?
 

Offline Oxford1035

Re: Peter Baartmans video - what style?
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2021, 01:31:05 AM »
Good to know, Russ. You're lucky to have seen him in person. I'd love to chat with him :)!

l've had a chat with him both times Lee. He's a really nice down to earth guy. Last time l saw him he was playing from a Classical score that went back to his student days. It was way above my level  :)

Kind regards,

Russ
 

Offline mikf

Re: Peter Baartmans video - what style?
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2021, 09:54:24 AM »
Do you like this ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqc9_
If it’s a video to show how you play chords, fair enough, but if it’s meant to be a live performance it’s a perfect example of what most audiences would call ‘cheating’. Imagine if you paid to hear Oscar Peterson play live and he turned up alone and plays magical stuff over a backing track. Nobody would care too much. But if he sat all night pressing buttons and playing a few chords while the backing track plays all the hard stuff, then you are being cheated.
Mike
 

Re: Peter Baartmans video - what style?
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2021, 01:01:10 PM »
Mike, you're comparing apples to oranges ;D. No one attending an Oscar Peterson concert is thinking that he's coming out to play a Genos, Tyros, or PSR. He has three players who each play an instrument (assuming bass, drums, and jazz guitar), so he doesn't need a Genos for that full sound. If Oscar came out on stage and played to a backing track, it still wouldn't be cheating. Yes, it would be dull and easily lose its allure because he always used live players of incredible skill. You'd still be in awe of his skill level. Whoever put the backing track together would have needed an equal skill level to Oscar's actual players - no easy task! I doubt even Peter B would be up to it.

Those who listen to Peter B are expecting to hear multiple instruments because that's what the arranger keyboard is for. Those people are not interested in buying just a piano or guitar. They want an arranger keyboard or as we all think of it, an orchestra in a box. It gives even the most rudimentary player the ability to sound like a full band in his or her living room. Adding a backing track is just an extension to that philosophy. It's not cheating. Anyone who has spent the hours putting together a backing track will tell you that it takes incredible musicianship and skill to get it right. Those people are not cheaters. In their own way, they're almost as skilled as individual players. They must learn a lot about each instrument to make it sound like the real thing.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2021, 01:02:59 PM by Lee Batchelor »
 

Offline mikf

Re: Peter Baartmans video - what style?
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2021, 05:45:21 PM »
Lee
I think you have misread my posts. I never said using a backing track was cheating. On the contrary, I said Peter B was definitely not cheating. No apples and oranges there, I expect to hear Peter B play a Genos very well  and he does. He is using the backing to enhance his impressive live playing, and simultaneously demonstrate the amazing capability of a Genos to do this.
But how impressed would you be if he used a great backing track then played over it using one finger chords and simple melody lines because he wasn’t a good player? Or like the guy in the other video, just played a few chords while the backing track did all the rest?
The bottom line is this, if you sell yourself as a live keyboard performer and use backing tracks to enhance your live playing, that is not cheating. But if you use backing tracks as a cover for up lack of live playing ability, that is different, and audiences often see through that. And does anyone honestly care who made the backing track. If the guy is obviously a good player, you might assume he did. But if he is obviously not a good player you probably assume someone else did, and most times you would be right.

Mike
 
The following users thanked this post: Lee Batchelor

Re: Peter Baartmans video - what style?
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2021, 07:08:40 PM »
Got it now, Mike. Thanks for the clarification. You're absolutely spot on ;).
 

Offline DrakeM

Re: Peter Baartmans video - what style?
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2021, 07:42:04 PM »
Hmmmmm ..... We do not know who it was that made the backing track for Peter B. There in lies the big FAKE OUT going on.

No backing tracks should you use ever IMO.  8)

However, so called PROS use them now a days. In Pigeon Forge TN a large Vacation destination in Tennessee with LIVE entertainment, they admitted to me that they use them (because I asked the sound board operator). The Sound Board Operator told me that none of the vocals were on the tracks only Instruments were on the recorded tracks.

A funny thing happened while I was performing using my custom styles live. I guess the person thought I was using TRACKS came up to me and began asking me questions as I was playing and singing. I was singing at the time and at first nodded my head yes and no to the first questions. The following question required me to speak to him. At this point I removed my hands from the keyboard and of course the 4 measure Main just looped as we spoke.

Within a few moments the other people there then shouted "Hey what's the problem?!?" I told the person asking the questions, he would have to excuse me. I then announced to the audience. "You now know and can hear that I am actually playing these songs". ;)

Regards
Drake