Author Topic: Style per song vs registration per song  (Read 944 times)

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Offline jcm2016

Style per song vs registration per song
« on: September 01, 2021, 09:05:58 AM »

I have a question on creating settings for a particular song.   This is my first arranger keyboard, so I'm wrapping my head around how to approach it.   

I've seen some YouTube videos from a particular shop that creates a new style for each song and then links OTS for that song.   I don't think they start from scratch on the style, I think they take an existing style, maybe tweak a bit, and set the tempo.   Then bring in particular voices that they like.   Clearly works for them.   It seems to me that this approach is then limited to four sounds with the particular song.  Also, I think when the song is titled by the style, one has to look in the styles to find it?

I've been saving my setups for particular songs in registrations.  I find the style, set the tempo, pick an intro and that's reg1.  Then some other voices for other reg and an ending.  I can use up to 8 reg.   When I search to find a song, they're all in the registration section.

Also, I can use the registration sequence function and use the foot pedal to move through the registrations. 

With the other method, I guess one could create a registration to then find the style, so one can search in either style or registration. And do multiple registrations so the registration sequencer works.   Seems like a lot more steps.

As I said, this is my first arranger.   From reading the super helpful posts in here, I believe older arrangers were more limited in their ability to hold registrations etc.  So maybe the method of that store is rooted in keyboards with less flexibility, and changing method now is a big switch?

I'm simply trying to understand.  As I'm new, I'm trying to go down a path that will be viable for a while, and not quickly look back wishing I'd structured things differently. 

How do others approach the structuring?

What am I missing  on the pros and cons?

Many thanks in advance!



 

Online ckobu

Re: Style per song vs registration per song
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2021, 09:12:22 AM »
The best approach is the one you are used to working with. Your way of using one bank for one song is great, especially since the Playlists have appeared. I think it is optimal to use.
I made a video explaining why ONE BANK = ONE SONG is a good way to organize.

https://youtu.be/I2zSdfSpa00

Offline Toril S

Re: Style per song vs registration per song
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2021, 09:41:05 AM »
I agree with Casper. Registrations can store more settings than OTS. But personally I find a style for a song, teeak it and name it after the song.
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline mikf

Re: Style per song vs registration per song
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2021, 10:43:45 AM »
One of the strengths of these keyboards is that like computers they often offer more than one way of achieving similar things. There is no right or wrong way, and after a bit if experimenting you will soon work out for yourself what works best for you.
BTW, a refinement of the ‘style’ method is not to use OTS but to have a small selection of favorite voices in a registrations bank that you keep up all the time, so you can control voice changes. The problem for me with OTS is that you get surprises because no-one could possibly remember what voice is in every one.
Mike

Offline Rick D.

Re: Style per song vs registration per song
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2021, 11:34:43 AM »
JCM,

I prefer the one registration per song method. I think it gives you more flexibility.

Rick D.
 

Offline mikf

Re: Style per song vs registration per song
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2021, 12:03:24 PM »
Rick
I see the power and advantages of registrations, but for me flexibility is not one of them. Quite the contrary, it can be quite a rigid way to play because if you use a bank per song, you have to set that up, then have cheat sheet of some sort, maybe a marked up fake book, to tell you when to change registrations, then stick pretty much exactly to that or risk getting in a mess. This doesn't suit everyone, especially the free flowing players who play the song 'in the moment', improvising and never playing the piece quite the same way twice.
Mike

Offline JohnS

Re: Style per song vs registration per song
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2021, 12:19:11 PM »
I agree Mike, but the one song to one registration way is still a good and convenient way, particularly for those of us who are inexperienced.
Horses for courses I reckon.
John.
I have a Tyros5/76 and Pa1000

My keyboard holds every song ever written.
I just have to find them.
 

Offline Enildo

Re: Style per song vs registration per song
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2021, 12:42:56 PM »
In my case I work with the "Registration Memory" by songs, by style and general registers, where I leave the main voices and styles at hand if needed. So I use the registers in 3 different ways.

Some songs use up to 4 or more voices, so RM will have to be per song. Here in Brazil, we use the same style to play for about 30 minutes, 1 hour, 2 hours (Ex.: Forró, Bossa Nova, Samba, Pagode, Jovem Guarda, etc...). So we just changed the voice and the style remains the same. In this case it is more interesting to make an RM with 8 different voices and leaving the original style saved in all of them.

Another example would be when I use the RM to play a "Pout-Pourri", with 3 or 4 songs in the same style, but with different voices. In this case the RM will be prioritized by style.

I also use dozens of songs in a single RM, where I put the name of Singer in the Bank, and each RM has a different song (for example: Bank Eric Clapton1: RM1 - Tears in heaven, RM2 - Something, RM3 - Change the world, etc...)

There is no better or worse way, but what is the need.
I hope you understand what I want to give you!
Enildo
When word fail, Music speaks!
 

Offline andyg

Re: Style per song vs registration per song
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2021, 07:47:37 PM »
FWIW, I don't allow any students to use just one registration per song, after the first piece in the tutor book. Unless their keyboard doesn't have registration memories, in which case they very soon have to get one that does! Most will start or quickly change to a keyboard with 4xx in the number and then straight to a keyboard with 9xx, and they can use that one all the up to Diploma level.

One bank per song is the way I teach people. No playlists, no Music Finder, no OTS. I teach them the 'old school' way, finding their own sounds and styles, and learning how to really use the keyboard, 'making it work hard' as I put it. They may only use three registrations at first - verse,chorus,verse - but they soon start to use more and when 8 isn't enough for the more advanced ones, the registration sequences they use will let them use multiple banks with ease. 16 registrations in a song is common and 24 registrations not unheard of at Diploma level.

The great thing about the keyboards is that they are flexible enough to work in many different ways. There is no absolute right or wrong, but nevertheless I get all my students to do it my way! :) Works for me, works for them and the multiple Distinction exam passes they get from Grade 1 to Diploma means that at every stage they are playing excellently.
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 
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Offline jcm2016

Re: Style per song vs registration per song
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2021, 12:07:47 AM »
Thanks so much for all the responses, which have triggered some questions...

On the point of not remembering what's in all the OTS, how does using registrations help that?  Wouldn't one have the same issue with the registrations  - remembering what is in each one?

On the point of free flowing, couldn't a registration bank be setup to give more room for creativity?  Say 1 and 2 are linked to style A, 3 and 4 go to style B and so on?  So as you go through a song and want to bring it up or down you have more choices than just the four OTS?  Meaning one doesn't have to go rigidly in order?

On the point of diplomas - what's that?   I'm aware of ABRSM grade exams (actually doing piano myself as it isn't my first instrument).  Is there something related to keyboards?

Thanks again!


 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Style per song vs registration per song
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2021, 05:10:40 AM »
Thanks so much for all the responses, which have triggered some questions...

On the point of not remembering what's in all the OTS, how does using registrations help that?  Wouldn't one have the same issue with the registrations  - remembering what is in each one?

On the point of free flowing, couldn't a registration bank be setup to give more room for creativity?  Say 1 and 2 are linked to style A, 3 and 4 go to style B and so on?  So as you go through a song and want to bring it up or down you have more choices than just the four OTS?  Meaning one doesn't have to go rigidly in order?

On the point of diplomas - what's that?   I'm aware of ABRSM grade exams (actually doing piano myself as it isn't my first instrument).  Is there something related to keyboards?

Individual registration buttons can be labelled (whereas OTS buttons cannot), so that helps people with remembering what's in it.

To me, you can be as creative with registrations as you can with OTS. Personally, I'm a Lawrence Welk method fan -- there's only one way to play a song, so having a registration bank with sequencing fits me perfectly.

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 
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Offline Rick D.

Re: Style per song vs registration per song
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2021, 11:38:31 AM »
Mike,

You make a good point, I have not gone so far as to mark up sheet music to tell me when to change registrations. I simply keep them in order 1,2,3..., and like Fred mentioned and I tend to agree, for me the more consistently I play a song the easier it is to play it without too many problems. You are right you can get in a mess is you deviate from the original arrangement, but in that case I just make another arrangement and decide which I like better. Even when I create my arrangements, I make several banks until I get it the way I like it. The real benefit for me is using the registrations in conjunction with Songbook+ and an iPad. When I click on the registration, the sheet music pops up on the iPad and I am ready to go. Compared to fumbling with paper like in the old days, this for me is a dream come true!

The Genos is my 6th arranger keyboard, I guess I just have become used to doing it this way. For me it works.

Rick D.
 

Offline TiasDad

Re: Style per song vs registration per song
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2021, 12:40:12 PM »
I'm just converting from using OTS (S970 with Music Finder) to Registrations (SX900 with Playlists).
 Yes, registrations are more versatile on your keyboard if that's where they'll stay.
I have had a few occasions where I have visited friends with other Yamaha arrangers and can just take my USB stick with me. All of the OTS adapted styles work flawlessly, not so with the registrations  8)
Gary - “Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.” ― Frank Zappa
PSR SX900, PSR S970, MixCraft 9 Pro Studio
 

Offline andyg

Re: Style per song vs registration per song
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2021, 11:15:53 AM »
On the point of diplomas - what's that?   I'm aware of ABRSM grade exams (actually doing piano myself as it isn't my first instrument).  Is there something related to keyboards?

There are several UK exam boards that offer full syllabuses (syllaba if you prefer!) for electronic arranger keyboard. However, AFAIK only two are OFQUAL accredited, London College of Music (LCM) and Trinity College London (TCL). Victoria College also offers an interesting syllabus but general consensus is that it's easier than the others and it's not accredited.

I've worked with both LCM and TCL but I find the LCM syllabus superior so I've used that one with my students for well over 20 years. The exams go from Pre Grade 1, through all eight grades up to Grade 8 and then through four Diploma levels. DipLCM, ALCM, LLCM and FLCM. The exams are quite demanding and you really need to know how to arrange pieces properly - you won't get very high marks for just playing pieces 'as written' (apart from the 'Study' at each grade, should you choose to play it, and even then the 'as written' only applies to notes, note values, chords and tempo.). And fully using your keyboard is essential, no OTS or Music Finder, no 'one finger chords' etc. Registration changes are mandatory from Grade 1 upwards, with one or two marked in as a 'must do' in pieces and more are expected! You can expect to be questioned on use of the keyboard in the 'Discussion' element of the exam. At higher grades and diplomas, that discussion can be a bit of a 'grilling' but you should know your stuff by then.

The Diplomas must be taken in order, starting with DipLCM, and you'll need to pass Grade 5 Theory before you can enter for that one. From ALCM upwards you can choose to take a performance based diploma or a teaching based diploma. If you choose the latter, you'll need a Grade 8 Theory pass before taking LLCM(TD).

ABRSM have never offered a keyboard syllabus, though they do include the instrument in their 'Keyboard Medals' programme for young beginners. I'm sure that they'd love the extra revenue that keyboard exams would bring in, but I suspect that they're aware of the potential backlash from the many piano teachers who for whatever reason (usually just lack of knowledge of the instrument) dislike or, to use the exact word of many posts on the ABRSM piano teacher's forum, 'hate' keyboard.  :'(  In any case, they probably realise that LCM and TCL have got it buttoned up!

« Last Edit: September 03, 2021, 11:18:46 AM by andyg »
It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

www.andrew-gilbert.com
 
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Offline jcm2016

Re: Style per song vs registration per song
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2021, 02:47:32 PM »
Wow, whole new world for me.   Many thanks for all the useful info.
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: Style per song vs registration per song
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2021, 09:37:50 PM »
I used the Music Finder Director in combination with song-specific styles with a great deal of success for nearly 30 years. This allowed me to quickly search the songs in alphabetical order, then select the next song with a single button push, thereby eliminating dead time between songs. You would be amazed at how quickly a dance floor can empty in just 5 or 10 seconds. :)

Good luck on whatever method you decide upon,

Gary 8)
Love Those Yammies...