Author Topic: Articulations #1, #2 and #3  (Read 873 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Yinon

Articulations #1, #2 and #3
« on: August 16, 2021, 06:00:41 PM »
Hi Everyone,

I tried looking for it but couldn't find it ...
Is there a way to assign specific voice, effect to the Articulations buttons (1,2 and 3)?
Is it possible to be done with YEM? Can we do it directly in the Genos?

I'm trying to create an acoustic guitar sound for strumming and hoping I can have Art 1 as a trigger for playin a cord and Art 2 as choking/muting the strings.
(This mode exists in some of the advanced software pluming but I'm trying to keep it simple)
I'm not sure it this is the right way to approach it.
Or maybe this exists in a Mega Voice somewhere?

Need your expertise here :-) Any thoughts?

Thanks,
-Yinon.
 

Offline pjd

Re: Articulations #1, #2 and #3
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2021, 11:46:23 PM »
Hello Yinon --

Unfortunately, most everything about articulations is already cooked into the Super Articulation and SArt2 voices. Voice Edit affects the most basic voice characteristics like filter resonance, cut-off, etc. Voice Edit is not as deep as voice editing in the Yamaha synthesizer products.

YEM is not much help, either. YEM cannot edit SArt or SArt2 voices. Yamaha have never publicly described the internals of SArt or SArt2 voices to the extent needed for detailed voice editing.

There are definitely ways to program Genos voices to do what you want -- we all can hear examples in the factory SArt and SArt2 voices. Unfortunately, Yamaha doesn't give us access.

SArt voices are a combination of regular Yamaha-architecture voice programming and software scripting. It is possible to create unique MegaVoice voices in YEM with a few limitations:

    http://sandsoftwaresound.net/genos-voice-editing-yem/
    http://sandsoftwaresound.net/genos-voice-editing-xml-notepad/
    http://sandsoftwaresound.net/genos-voice-editing-an-example/
    http://sandsoftwaresound.net/genos-voice-editing-blending-the-split-point/

Unfortunately, you'll be limited to key ranges and velocity ranges as your primary controls -- no buttons. Montage/MODX sound designers find this highly frustrating (no Expanded Articulation).

Hope this helps -- pj

 
The following users thanked this post: Jeff Hollande

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: Articulations #1, #2 and #3
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2021, 06:32:44 AM »
Hi PJ  :

Thank you so much for your very clear explanation.

Always interesting and useful to know the ins and outs to understand better why things are working or not working.

Do you expect Yamaha will continu YEM in the near future
( Genos2  ? ) or ... what should / could be improved ?

Plse advise.

Thanks and best regards, JH
« Last Edit: August 17, 2021, 06:40:04 AM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Offline Yinon

Re: Articulations #1, #2 and #3
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2021, 02:17:21 PM »
Thanks PJ!

I appreciate the detailed answer.
You did mentioned there are few ways to get to a the strumming effect I'm looking for.

(I do not want to strum with a pad and tempo as this is played live. I want to strum real time).
Any thoughts of how this can be done?

Thanks,
-Yinon.

 

Offline pjd

Re: Articulations #1, #2 and #3
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2021, 06:10:10 PM »
Hi Yinon --

Gotta ask -- Have you experimented with the Genos Arpeggio feature? Genos Owner's Manual, page 57. There are guitar strumming patterns, including MegaVoice. Genos Data List, page page 74. The "Arpeggio/MegaGuitar" patterns are meant to be used with MegaVoice guitar and have various effects like fret noise or whatever.

I'm not sure if voice editing is the path to the solution. With respect to strums, there are so many factors to be controlled: what notes to play (major/minor/etc.), voicing, tempo.

At the voice level, I thought about a voice with three or four elements where each element is assigned a pitch: root, root+3rd, root+5th. The start time of each element needs to be delayed by a little bit to get the strum effect.

Of course, one needs both major and minor, but there are so many chord types! The voicing is fixed and the strum speed doesn't change with tempo. That's why an arpeggio-based approach would be more flexible.

I don't believe there is a way to create user arpeggios. (Bummer.) The only other available approach is Multipad. At least we can create new Multipads...

Hope this idea helps -- pj

P.S. Saw your reference to "pad" and maybe you already considered Multipads. Sorry.
 
The following users thanked this post: Yinon

Offline pjd

Re: Articulations #1, #2 and #3
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2021, 06:15:43 PM »
Do you expect Yamaha will continue YEM in the near future
( Genos2  ? ) or ... what should / could be improved ?

Hi Jeff --

Yamaha seems committed to YEM since YEM now supports the whole mid- to upper-level arranger product line. I honestly don't see that changing.

A few of us (myself) included have sent suggestions directly to Yamaha. (Crickets) I've given up bugging them directly and spend the extra time with our grandson. At least he listens.  :)

If Yamaha wants to know what to fix, they can chase the links above and read the posts. I identified features needed.

Thanks for the kind comments -- pj
 
The following users thanked this post: Jeff Hollande

Offline pjd

Re: Articulations #1, #2 and #3
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2021, 06:26:29 PM »
Crazy idea...

Maybe fast finger RIGHT1, RIGHT2, and RIGHT3. RIGHT1 is the chord voice, RIGHT2 is choke/mute. If necessary, create custom guitar voices for RIGHT1, etc.

Or, assign steel guitar to RIGHT1 and muted steel guitar to RIGHT2. Assign different key ranges to RIGHT1 and RIGHT2. Enable both RIGHT1 and RIGHT2. Play in the RIGHT1 zone to strum and play in the RIGHT2 zone to strum muted notes.

-- pj

 

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: Articulations #1, #2 and #3
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2021, 07:34:54 PM »
IMHO I think Yamaha might completely change their present YEM prog in the near future ... but who am I ? 😜

Wait and see ...

Best regards, JH
« Last Edit: August 18, 2021, 07:36:39 PM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Re: Articulations #1, #2 and #3
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2021, 09:19:21 PM »
IMHO I think Yamaha might completely change their present YEM prog in the near future ... but who am I ? 😜

Wait and see ...
Best regards, JH
I've never used the YEM but from what I've seen and read on this forum, it's a total mess. I hope Yamaha takes a hard look at this program and makes it more user friendly in the future. I have enough computer woes that I don't need to add YEM to the mix.

Offline Jeff Hollande

Re: Articulations #1, #2 and #3
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2021, 10:23:48 PM »
That might be the reason why YEM will be replaced / upgraded or not longer exist as soon as new ( highend ) Yamaha arranger keyboards will be launched. 

Due to the present sad situation ( Covid, lead times etc. ) nobody is able to inform - not even Yamaha - when new products can be expected, I guess.

Bye for now, JH
 
« Last Edit: August 18, 2021, 10:27:23 PM by Jeff Hollande »
 

Re: Articulations #1, #2 and #3
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2021, 11:12:43 PM »
That might be the reason why YEM will be replaced / upgraded or not longer exist as soon as new ( highend ) Yamaha arranger keyboards will be launched. 

Due to the present sad situation ( Covid, lead times etc. ) nobody is able to inform - not even Yamaha - when new products can be expected, I guess.

Bye for now, JH
Good points, Jeff. I expected an earful from users who have mastered the YEM program. I have to admit that I've never given it the old college try but I am instantly put off by programs that aren't immediately easy to use. I refuse to waste time learning such programs just because the programmers are too disconnected from users.

Offline Toril S

Re: Articulations #1, #2 and #3
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2021, 11:17:47 PM »
Feel the same Lee!
Toril S

Genos, Tyros 5, PSR S975, PSR 2100
and PSR-47.
Former keyboards: PSR-S970.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLVwWdb36Yd3LMBjAnm6pTQ?view_as=subscriber



Toril's PSR Performer Page
 

Offline Yinon

Re: Articulations #1, #2 and #3
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2021, 11:45:07 PM »
Hi Yinon --

Gotta ask -- Have you experimented with the Genos Arpeggio feature? Genos Owner's Manual, page 57. There are guitar strumming patterns, including MegaVoice. Genos Data List, page page 74. The "Arpeggio/MegaGuitar" patterns are meant to be used with MegaVoice guitar and have various effects like fret noise or whatever.

I'm not sure if voice editing is the path to the solution. With respect to strums, there are so many factors to be controlled: what notes to play (major/minor/etc.), voicing, tempo.

At the voice level, I thought about a voice with three or four elements where each element is assigned a pitch: root, root+3rd, root+5th. The start time of each element needs to be delayed by a little bit to get the strum effect.

Of course, one needs both major and minor, but there are so many chord types! The voicing is fixed and the strum speed doesn't change with tempo. That's why an arpeggio-based approach would be more flexible.

I don't believe there is a way to create user arpeggios. (Bummer.) The only other available approach is Multipad. At least we can create new Multipads...

Hope this idea helps -- pj

P.S. Saw your reference to "pad" and maybe you already considered Multipads. Sorry.

Thanks PJ for great advise.

The problem with using arpeggiator is that it relays in the internal Genos clock (tempo).
So in a band situation, playing live, it's sounds mechanical and often confuse the band.

I did however find 2 solutions -
1. Mute strumming - (Sultans of swings style) I used the AcusticGuitart and play the chords in right hand. I use the left hand to mute with Atr#2. I only wish The sound designer would have really mute the sustained strings rather than allow them to sustain while the mute sounds are coming in ....

2. Open Strumming (Tracy Chapman - Baby can I hold you) -  I found a little trick. Set a LOW and RH1 to the same voice and tune the Octave to the same range. (Like having 2 keyboards with the exact same sound). Now try playing the same chords with both hands and uses the left and right hand to create a strumming feel. Works for me and sounds good. :-)
 8)

I hope someone finds this useful.

 

Offline Yinon

Re: Articulations #1, #2 and #3
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2021, 01:41:31 PM »

For search purposes -

"Strumming with Genos" ; "How to play guitar live with Genos"

 ;)