Author Topic: A-5000 features in SX-900 ??  (Read 938 times)

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A-5000 features in SX-900 ??
« on: August 08, 2021, 12:42:30 PM »
PSR S 975 Owner here

Was watching demo of A5000 and reading the user manual.
There is one GOD SENT feature of A5000 and that is the amazing portamento control which would improve my genre of music.
Portamento features in addition to what is present in the SX900
- Velocity Used for Crossfade Portamento (Last note / First Note)
- Portamento Time Type (Fixed Rate / Time)
- Fast Playing Portamento - (Time Threshold / Time)
- Velocity to Portamento Time - (Vel Sensitivity / Ref Vel)
.... The above features are so good, that it would even blow the Soft synths out of the equation for my music genre.

However the A5000 has a great drawback and that is, its middle east oriented, misses out on 30% of the wonderful voices and styles of SX900 in favor of the Arabic ones which are useless to me (except maybe one or two voices)


Now I am faced with a purchase decision to upgrade my S975

Question :
Since SX 900 and A 5000 are almost the same keyboard, with near Identical Operating system, can I somehow include (import) the above Portamento features into SX900?
Or
Will there be an update to SX900 Operating system to include the above features ?
Or
Is there another keyboard coming up?

Please respond.



Offline Amwilburn

Re: A-5000 features in SX-900 ??
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2021, 01:22:50 AM »
Having played them both, I can tell you that they are *not* 95% the same keyboard.

It's actually surprising to me, since the PSRA3000 was at least the PSRs770, but with the sample ram of the s970. The A series was always based of the 'middle' model of PSR. Until now: the A5000, sx600 and DGX670 share the same base chipset, but of course with the A5000 having loads of Middle Eastern instruments added on top. If you are primarily looking to play Middle Eastern music, and especially if you need quarter tone scales on the fly, then yes, you *should* get the A5000. (all the other PSR's can do quarter tone scales as registrations, but not as flexible as on the fly)

But you'll be sacrificing the Seattle Strings /Real Strings, choirs, of the s970/975/sx700/sx900, and the T5 exclusive guitars, the phrased and jazz scat voices, solo strings and better piano of the sx900.

Now, you can put *some* of those back in with the 1gb of sample ram space (yes, same as on the sx900... and it even does Audio styles like the sx900/s970). But it is most certainly the same chipset as the sx600/DGX670/s770/s775. However, you'll almost certainly be loading some of the old Middle Eastern sounds into that 1gb; the built in watariats are more legato, but actually *less* powerful sounding than the ones from the A3000. More nuanced, though.

And while the ethnic drums are incredible on the A5000, the actual speakers are *much* less punchy than the s970/s975, sx900 or the old PSRA3000/A2000/A1000


There is a reason why it's priced just slightly above an sx700, but much less than an sx900.

Mark

Re: A-5000 features in SX-900 ??
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2021, 04:56:53 AM »
Hi Thank you for the response

Sadly, got a "vague" response from Yamaha support
There may or may not be in the replacement PSRSX900.  We cannot rule anything out or guess at this- we have no information on upcoming models at this time.


Regarding the A5000 The quarter scales etc are of no use to me,
I am only astounded with the additional portamento features of the A5000. This is going to be a game changer can rival or even obliterate the soft synths, being used in my part of India at least.

The additional A5000 middle eastern sounds / styles are of zero value to me though. (except maybe the istanbul strings)

Questions on what you said.
ethnic drums .... actual speakers are *much* less punchy than the s970/s975.
On paper
PSR Sx900 Amplifiers - (15 W + 10 W) x 2 / Speakers : 13 cm x 2 + 2.5 cm (dome) x 2
PSR A5000 Amplifiers - 15 W x 2                  Speakers : 13 cm x 2 + 5 cm x 2
So yes, the 10W from the SX is missing, was not aware it would make such a difference.
Hope there are no differences if I will be connecting it to external audio, or record it as wav. Right ?
I mean the sound processing should be the same isn't it?


But you'll be sacrificing the ......
Say I want to add only the strings and maybe a few choirs from the SX900, is that possible? and how ?
In other words can I choose what sounds I want to add back into the A5000 from an Sx900 or say even from my s975 ?


Going thru a few user manuals of the S series Sx series and Genos ....... I have observed that Yamaha doesn't skip these "common" features in their new releases, so maybe their new keyboard will have the portamento features that I am interested in. (Should I wait ???)
Any thoughts ? comments ? News leaks, Am I wrong ?


Offline Amwilburn

Re: A-5000 features in SX-900 ??
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2021, 07:29:04 PM »
On paper, the A5000 amplifiers are the same as those on the s950, , s750, s970, s770, s975, s775, and SX700.

In practice, there are crossovers (where the hi and low freq's ... cross over) and EQ's involved that change the sound perception dramatically: the PSR3000 had an amazingly balanced, full, warm, yet with punchy bass speaker set. (30w, like the A5000). then they lowered the wattage to 24w for s900, s910... quieter, less punchy bass, but still clean and warm tone.

Then came the s950, they'd heard the lack of bass complaints; and it was really, really punchy! Unfortunately, the treble was also overpowering, so that it caused me ear fatigue at high volumes (couple that with the onboard T4 drums being sampled in mono, along with any of the new brass/strings that were new going from the T2 chipset onward were also mono sampled). Then the s970/s975... still a 15+15 w system, but clear & punchy, without any high frequency ear fatigue (which is one reason I bought one).

The A5000 uses the less bass punchy speakers from the s750/s770/s775. So yes, if you output to an external speaker set, won't make much difference, but using the built in speakers for personal monitors, the sound... just doesn't convey the same energy without that deep bass component.

Try an sx900 next to an A5000 in a store yourself, you'll see.

But as I've stated; if the middle eastern sound palette and life control quarter tone scale is of no use to you, you're *much* better off getting the sx900, because that's what you're paying for from an A5000 over the sx600. (not even the sx700, which surprised me.)

Also, the previous A2000/A3000 also used the same amplifier set as their corresponding s7xx, but with a very boosted bass response. The speakers on the A5000 were... unexpected.

You can't add the strings from the sx900 per se, but there are sample packs out there (from Yamaha and others) that can give you at least a similar sound in most categories.

Under normal circumstances, the Genos 2 would've probably been teased by the end of this year, and the subsequent sx series would've arrived another 1.5 years after that. But with the AKM fire and parts supply shortages, these are far from normal circumstances.

If you're waiting for the next sx series? I can tell you not to expect the next full upgrade until well after the next Genos. (there *have* been half step upgrades, like the PSR2100 1 year after the PSR2000, and the s975 2.5 years after the s970, and the CVP210 1 year after the 209). since this is merely a function update, yes it's possible we'll see a mk2 of the sx900/sx700. Keep in mind these half step upgrades share the same chipset and architecture as their originals, just with a couple of minor additions (in the case of the CVP210, not that minor: smoother piano sample and USB B port!)

Re: A-5000 features in SX-900 ??
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2021, 05:32:51 PM »
Yamaha Expansion Manager 2.7.0

Reading the manual in their website
Page 14 : Under Configuring Common Settings
I see Sections
  • General
  • Controller
and
  • Portamento Detail

But opening the YEM, I do not see the Portamento Detail under the Common Settings
My Install target is S975 . and so obviously the settings mentioned in the manual under Portamento Detail isn't Physically available in the keyboard.

Question : Are these YEM settings dependent on keyboards ? and the YEM Owners Manual forgot to mention that ?
Or
Is there a way I can create a voice / pack with the above additional portamento features (mentioned under portamento details in the manual) similar to A5000 that would fit into my S975 ?

Online overover

Re: A-5000 features in SX-900 ??
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2021, 09:54:27 PM »
Hi Live Musician Newbie,

These Portamento features were added in YEM version 2.8.0. Obviously the text you quoted does not come from the YEM V2.7.0 manual but from the YEM V2.8.0 manual. So you have to install the current YEM version (2.8.1) on your computer. (Note: According to Yamaha, this version requires Windows 10 or 8.1, i.e. Windows 7 is no longer officially supported.)
>>> https://uk.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/2/1396982/yamaha_expansion_manager_en_om_v280_k0.pdf

Unfortunately, I don't know whether the new Portamento features will be supported by other models besides the PSR-A5000. The YEM Version History says:

V2.7.0 to V2.8.0

    - Now supports the PSR-A5000.
    - Expanded Drum Keys to 128 for keyboards that support 128-note Drum kits.
    - Now supports upgraded Mono/Portamento for the keyboards that support those functions.
    - Solved some other minor problems.


* Do not use content to be released from now with previous versions (V.2.7.0 or earlier).


Since I do not have a S975, I unfortunately cannot test it for you. Either you install YEM V2.8.1 and test it yourself, or you ask Yamaha support directly which models exactly support the new Portamento functions of the YEM.


Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: August 24, 2021, 09:55:35 PM by overover »
Everyone always said: "This is not possible!" - Then someone came and ... just did it!
 

Re: A-5000 features in SX-900 ??
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2021, 05:21:47 AM »
Thank you for the clarifications.

I just checked the YEM Reference Manual under s975.
Went to A5000 section and again checked it and now this is clear.


End note : I badly badly badly want those GOD SENT portamento features of the A5000 that's going to be a game changer for my music.
But I do not want space occupied by *Middle eastern content* which is useless.
I compared the voice list / Drum kits / Style contents of A5000 vs PSR SX900 and I will be missing the awesome content of PSR SX, and this is keeping me away from A5000

 :'( :'( :'( Guess I have no other options but to wait.
 

Re: A-5000 features in SX-900 ??
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2021, 04:59:36 AM »
ONE LAST DITCH EFFORT

Can any existing SX900 owners, download YEM 2.8.0
And , using the target device as your SX900 , please check if you are able to see these additional Portamento Detail in the Common Settings ?
Options I am looking for under Portamento Detail are
- Vel Xfade
- Portamento Time Type
- Fast Playing Portamento
- Velocity to Portamento time
- Min Portamento time.

It would help me greatly if someone does the above.

Awaiting your responses.
 

Online overover

Re: A-5000 features in SX-900 ??
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2021, 10:46:03 AM »
Hi Live Musician Newbie,

the new Portamento features are always visible in YEM V2.8.1, regardless of which Install Targets are currently present in the YEM.

The import of existing Voices (.PPF, .UVN or .SF2 format) or the creation of new Custom Voices as well as the Voice editing takes place in the "My Packs" view, ie not for a specific Install Target.

A user would first have to create a Custom Voice in YEM using the new Portamento features, then install the Pack with this Voice on an SX900 and test whether the SX900 can do anything with it.

By the way: When I took the screenshot attached to my previous post, I had the Install Targets Genos and SX900 in YEM V2.8.1.


Best regards,
Chris
Everyone always said: "This is not possible!" - Then someone came and ... just did it!
 

Re: A-5000 features in SX-900 ??
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2021, 11:54:23 AM »
 8)

First of, thank you so much for taking your time to respond.
Really appreciate that.

Now this sounds promising and EXCITING  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Can you or anyone please please check that for me as well?
Please ?? You will be helping me decide on SX900 instead of rejecting A5000

What I am expecting is this.
Once you create a new pack with the new voice, using the latest YEM, install it in the SX900. and check whether you are seeing the above ADDITIONAL portamento options.
These additional portamento options may also appear under a new section Common 2 as I see it under A5000 ??
Sorry for confusing you, the only access to SX900 / A5000 are thru user manuals and youtube videos.

Please someone help me with these information and I would really appreciate it.

Thanking you a lot in anticipation.


 

Online overover

Re: A-5000 features in SX-900 ??
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2021, 12:57:16 PM »
Hi Live Musician Newbie,

Since I "only" have Genos and Tyros5, I unfortunately cannot test this on an SX900. On occasion I will test whether the Genos plays the new Portamento features when a Voice programmed in the YEM 2.8.1 is installed.

BUT: Even if the Genos or the SX900 can process/play these new features, I think it is out of the question that they will NOT show them on the display with the current firmware. This means that such Voices could not be edited in the Genos/SX, but you would have to use the YEM again. Possibly you could also save the installed Voice in the keyboard as a User Voice and then edit this .VCE file in a MIDI program such as MixMaster.

The crucial point is whether keyboards other than the PSR-A5000 can interpret the new parameters with the current firmware, or whether this is only possible after a future firmware update.


Best regards,
Chris
Everyone always said: "This is not possible!" - Then someone came and ... just did it!
 

Re: A-5000 features in SX-900 ??
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2021, 05:42:36 PM »
As they say, when your dreams are high, even god gives in

I believe the voices edited / created with the YEM 2.8.0 (with the additional portamento settings) can be PLAYED
However the additional settings wont show up.
Proof :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oVH-UMbnXY
(Used Translator to understand what he was saying. Thanks to the gentleman for uploading it)


With this cleared out, I am still thinking if I am ready to take the big plunge and hope the SX900 will have a firmware update that would display these as well.??? Fingers 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻

🙏🏻Thank you sir from the bottom of my heart for patiently answering all my queries.

If there is anyone who can try these settings in Genos, SX900 please keep this thread updated.