Topic: Does anyone have ForScore working with Genos via MIDI?

[kbrkr]

I have all my scores/lead sheets in ForScore and i'm not interested in using SongBook+ as it just doesn't have the same level of features as ForScore.  With that said, does any one have experience sending MIDI commands to the Genos from the iPad/ForScore to select Registrations/Playlists?

Thanks
Al

[Fred Smith]

If it helps, I use Songbook this way where I use midi files to send commands to the iPad to select the pdf I want. So the keyboard supports it.

Cheers,
Fred

[kbrkr]

Thank you Fred.  Would you know the MIDI Sequence Songbook sends to the Genos to select a Registration and/or a playlist?

[Fred Smith]

Thank you Fred.  Would you know the MIDI Sequence Songbook sends to the Genos to select a Registration and/or a playlist?

As I said, I do it the other way around. My registrations send a midi sequence to Songbook to select the PDF I want.

Cheers,
Fred

[AndiiRoo]

I have all my scores/lead sheets in ForScore and i'm not interested in using SongBook+ as it just doesn't have the same level of features as ForScore.  With that said, does any one have experience sending MIDI commands to the Genos from the iPad/ForScore to select Registrations/Playlists?

Thanks
Al

OnSong is my preferred App for Scores as well as Chords over Lyrics, but I also have Songbook and Forscore although I'm not very familiar with the latter.

 I have set up OnSong both ways, to display the song in OnSong when I select a Genos registration, and also to select the registration when I choose a song in OnSong as it's quicker to browse a bigger list of songs on the iPad, than it is on the smaller Genos touch screen.

From a quick look at the ForScore App & User Guide v10.5, it looks perfectly feasible.
P.12 says
"In the “MIDI” section of the metadata panel, you can assign a unique command to each score and open it with some MIDI devices. You can also save a list of commands to be sent out each time that score is opened"
This is roughly what I do inOnSong.

Cheers, Andrew

[Dromeus]

Would you know the MIDI Sequence Songbook sends to the Genos to select a Registration and/or a playlist?

Hi

To open a registration stored on a USB stick use the following sysex message:

• F0 43 73 01 52 26 03 00 00 00
• USB:/YourPath/YourSong/YourSong.T556.rgt
• 00 F7

The first part starts and identifies the sysex message.

The second part specifies the file location of your registration bank. As all my regs reside on a USB stick, "USB:/" is all ever need, but you may use "Preset:/" to access the regs that come as demo presets with the Genos, or "User:/" to access the user storage. "YourPath" must be the complete path incl subfolders. "T556" identifies the file icon that is used with the registration. Of course, the number depends on the icon used, so you have to look up the complete file name, e.g. by checking the folder directory with a PC. The ASCII string must be converted in HEX. I did not check how to access a second USB stick connected to Genos, I don't need that feature.

The third part ends the sysex message.

These three parts combined make a valid sysex message to get Genos to load your registration.

 I don't know about ForSCore, I use Cantabile for controlling my complete keyboard setup. In Cantibile I would simple enter the sysex string as

x"F0 43 73 01 52 26 03 00 00 00"
"USB:/MyPath/MySong/MySong.T556.rgt"
x"00 F7"

which is very handy and straightforward.

HTH
Michael

[kbrkr]

Thank you Michael,

The first problem I see that i'm going to have right off the bat is ForScore only accepts HEX values and will not accept text for the Path/Reg name.  I'll have to figure that one out with the Software Developers help.

[Dromeus]

To convert path/file name to hex you need a "ascii to hex converter". There are free apps out there to do the job, or just use any of (countless) online tools like http://dolcevie.com/js/converter.html.

[frozzers]

ForScore is a great app but I think they're missing a trick not documenting how to connect their app via MIDI to a keyboard.

I've had a number of goes at it without success so if you can get it working that would be brilliant!

Cheers

Chris

[kbrkr]

Your so right Chris...I've contacted the developer on the Facebook page to let them know.  Who knows, maybe they will address it.  I needled them that SongBook+ (a competitor) handles it much better and I'd rather not buy it!

[Marty]

I have been in contact with 'Forscore' Customer support regarding this deficiency and have had a couple of email exchanges.

I advised that their app should included support for 'SysEx' messages.

Unfortunately the email responses didn't suggest that they would consider or implement anytime soon. I told them that the competition includes the option but it seems it fall on deaf ears!

[kbrkr]

Thank you so much Marty !!!

[Gérard Marcy]

Hi Michael,

Thank you for these precious indications 

I intercepted the sysex transmitted by the Genos to SongBook:
F0 43 73 01 52 26 03 00 00 00 55 73 65 72 3A 2F 52 45 47 2E 54 35 37 35 2E 72 67 74 00 F7
either in "clair": ðCs
R&   User:/REG.T575.rgt ÷

REG.T575.rgt is the bank I select, but I don't see how to indicate the full path ... 

Thanks in advance if you can help me

Gérard

[overover]

Hi Michael,

Thank you for these precious indications 

I intercepted the sysex transmitted by the Genos to SongBook:
F0 43 73 01 52 26 03 00 00 00 55 73 65 72 3A 2F 52 45 47 2E 54 35 37 35 2E 72 67 74 00 F7
either in "clair": ðCs
R&   User:/REG.T575.rgt ÷

REG.T575.rgt is the bank I select, but I don't see how to indicate the full path ... 

Thanks in advance if you can help me ...

Hi Gerard,

the correct full path is "C:/REGIST/REG.T575.rgt" in this case. (Your registration is obviously stored directly in the User drive, not in an additional folder there).

But what exactly are you trying to do?


Best regards,
Chris

[Gérard Marcy]

Hello Chris,

Thank you for that answer.
What I'm trying to do is call up a Genos recording from SongBook +, using a SysEx message.

Following your indications I modified this message in:
F0 43 73 01 52 26 03 00 00 00 43 3A 2F 53 74 79 30 31 2F 52 45 47 2E 54 35 37 35 2E 72 67 74 00 F7
in readable form:
F0 43 73 01 52 26 03 00 00 00  C:/Sty01/REG.T575.rgt  00 F7

but it does not work: the Genos does not react (MIDI / Receive screen)

I really care about this functionality ...
(For info I use a 2nd generation iPad Pro 12''9, software version 14.4)

Best regards,
Gérard

[overover]

Hi Gérard,

what is the reason that you want to "intercept" the SysEx sent by the Genos in connection with Songbook+?

Would you like to use the SysEx in conjunction with another, external MIDI device?

If it's just a matter of linking Genos Registrations with Songbook+, there is another, very simple option (which is built into Songbook+):


- Please use the current version 4.0.6 of Songbook + if possible.

- Establish a MIDI connection between Genos and the iPad (e.g. via USB-to-host or via Bluetooth LE MIDI adapter).

- Touch the "Gear" icon. Go to "Settings > MIDI" and make sure that "Easy Keyboard Control" ---> "YAMAHA Genos ... (with link)" is set.

- Load the desired Registration Bank on the Genos and activate the desired Registration (usually Reg button #1).

- Call up the desired "Song" in Songbook+ (so that the relevant text or sheet music is displayed on the iPad).

- Now touch the ••• icon (three dots) in the status bar, find the item "Yamaha Keyboard Link" and touch "Now link the song".

- Songbook+ now sends a SysEx request to the Genos. Genos replies with the appropriate SysEx string for the currently loaded Registration, and the Songbook automatically saves this SysEx to the currently loaded "Song".

- Finished! The link established on this works automatically in both directions.


If you have another application, please come back here!


Best regards,
Chris

[Gérard Marcy]

Chris,

Yes I know these manipulations integrated into SongBook +

For me the problem is the following:
If I scroll through the pdf, they send the entire associated SysEx.
This is not the behavior I want.

What I'm looking for is to be able to scroll through the pdf without sending SysEx.
And when I get to the one that interests me, I click on the annotation that I will have created before sending the midi message to Genos, and thus select the registration.

I made the request to the developer with whom we exchanged several emails, for the moment it is on stand-by:
“I have now created a 'Feature request' for a new 'Send Genos Link' action in the foot pedal actions and in the button actions.
But I can't promise yet, if and when it's going to be achieved. "

[janamdo]

Mobilsheets Pro especially for Genos as songbook

[AndiiRoo]

ForScore is a great app but I think they're missing a trick not documenting how to connect their app via MIDI to a keyboard.

I've had a number of goes at it without success so if you can get it working that would be brilliant!

Cheers

Chris

Having had a quick look at Forscore I've got it working one way, i.e. opening the Registration on the Genos from selecting music in Forscore, but not quite there the other way around yet. There seem to be anomalies in what I expect should happen, but doesn't. More trial and error when I get time

[Gérard Marcy]

That's it, I have good news for those who want to use FORSCORE with the GENOS keyboard ! 😀
Et ceci dans les deux sens 😉

The time to present you properly how to do it and I explain my method ...
see you soon !!!

[AndiiRoo]

Now working fine each way ok. The problem was I have a creaky old ipad 3 stuck with ios 9 and Forscore v10.5. It's now on v12.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CzCid6u63J5XMaJIqqsEdT6eN6WhWg-i/view?usp=sharing

[dragon]

I would like to do this but cannot understand your video. I have forscore 12.0.10. Could you please explain what you are doing in detail so I can duplicate your efforts. Thank you 😁

[AndiiRoo]

Yes, sorry about the video quality, it was a quick demo on my mobile to show that each way selections between Genos Registrations, and Songs in Forscore, can be achieved. It's clearer on a PC screen.
This is what I do in Forscore v10.5, Maybe a different layout in v12?

I use the Yamaha MD-BT01 bluetooth adapter in Port 2 (B), which I personally find is way more stable in OnSong than Port A, and this reflects in the numbers in my following example.

You need a midi template and I find it best to start from the empty MIDI OFF template in Midi Presets.
On the System tab page 2/2 I have ON for System Exclusive Message Receive, the other 3 entries are all OFF.
On the Transmit page I only have one entry - Part 'Song CH1' Channel 'Port2Ch2', everything else is Off.
On the Receive page I have all 16 Port1 Channels set to 'Song', and  under Part, Port2Ch1 set to 'Keyboard'.
Save the Template and for me this allows OnSong, Forscore, VanBasco's Karaoke Player playing through the Genos, and Chord Tracker.

On the Genos, Registrations must be numbered consecutively 001, 002 etc

In Forscore - Suitcase Icon - Settings - Midi Network - Scan - put a tick against Genos when its' found.
Load a song in Forscore, tap on title, click midi tab:
Click SEND, click on +, select Program Change from the menu. In the 4 boxes Chl-MSB-LSB-0-127 type 1-0-9-0 (if for example 009 is the Registration you want to select - enter in the LSB box, not the 0-127 box).
Click OPEN, then on the + sign, then on 'Learn' from the menu, then on the Genos, open the Regist Bank page by holding down the Regist Bank Select + and - buttons, then touch Registration number 009. If it is all connected ok, you will see the Hex Codes read into Forscore and saved automatically.

I hope I've remembered to write down everything, OnSong works quite differently from a one line Program Change number in a midi file saved to each Registration. I see no reason why this couldn't also be used for Forscore, but I haven't explored that yet

[dragon]

Thank you for your detailed explanation of how to set up the opening of a registration via ForScore and Bluetooth and midi. I have not purchased a MB-BT01 adapter yet so have printed out your instructions for future use. Cheers

[frozzers]

Thanks Andrew for your detailed instructions.

Unfortunately, I've fallen at the first hurdle as I can't get ForScore to see the Genos.

I've got my MD-BT01 bluetooth adapter plugged into Port B as suggested but, in Midi Network Setup in ForScore, it just continues 'Scanning ...'.

The iPad recognises my Bluetooth Music Pedal so I don't think the problem is with the iPad.

I'm sure the MD-BT01 adapter is actually working as I can connect Chord Tracker to the Genos with it.

Any ideas what I might be doing wrong?

Cheers

Chris

[AndiiRoo]

I had connection problems initially, but I thought it was probably down to me struggling with an old iOS9, and an old copy of Forscore.

In Forscore v10.5 if I go into Devices in the 'Suitcase Icon' menu, the only compatible Bluetooth item that shows up is the AirTurn PED, and a scanning logo in the window goes on and on with no results. Also, running Midi Wrench downloaded from the App Store shows the MD BT101 as offline, even though Forscore is showing a Genos connection 'Genos-3805b9-port1' and displays a tick if clicked on. But it does not actually work.

However, if I run OnSong, then connect it with bluetooth so that OnSong is working fine, the Midi Wrench App now shows the MD BT101 as online and switching back to Forscore shows it has started working perfectly, so it is sort of 'piggy-backing' on the connection. I thought maybe the BT101 was not available when my versions were current, but that with later bluetooth versions, it hopefully would be recognised better in the latest iOS & Forscore Program, together with any bug fixes.

Apart from your Midi Network search, what does a Devices menu option search show up in your Forscore App? Have you tried a Genos and iPad restart both before and after after turning off your bluetooth pedal and any other bluetooth devices? And have you tried it with the All Parts midi preset? This also works ok on mine OK apart from causing occasional random OnSong page turns or crashes at just the wrong time! (Turning on All Parts and using Midi Port A on my Tyros used to light up the Midi Event Viewer in OnSong practically covering all the screen with a constant stream of midi stuff, and it just wants an odd random Program Change with a matching registration number to cause havoc!). And have you any other music Apps that you can connect with Bluetooth to try the same effect that I get with OnSong?

Hope this helps with some thoughts to try, and maybe Gérard's approach (above) is different and he has some ideas?

Cheers, Andy

[Gérard Marcy]

Hope this helps with some thoughts to try, and maybe Gérard's approach (above) is different and he has some ideas?

Cheers, Andy

Hello,

I will try to bring my little stone to the building.

CALL UP A GENOS REGISTRATION FROM A PDF ON FORSCORE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
for a PDF corresponding to registration n ° 1, located in bank n ° 1:
create a MIDI button on this PDF, and enter the PROGRAM CHANGE: 1 0 0 0
     1  (Voice)    don't change
     0  (MSB)     don't change
     0  (LSB)      BANK NUMBER - 1
     0  (0-127)   REGISTRATION NUMBER - 1

another example, if we want to link another PDF with Reg n ° 5 of Bank n ° 12 we will have:
1 0 11 4

it works in all cases, whatever the name of the bank, registration, or PDF.

On the other hand I always stumble on the opposite operation, namely to VIEW A PDF from a REGistration ...

[frozzers]

Hi Andrew

Some success!

First the bad news.

I've tried every possible way of getting ForScore to see the Genos through the MIDI selection option. Whatever I do, it just sits there 'Scanning ...'. I even tried using my wife's iPad Pro (latest version) but that didn't work. Every other music application I ran, ChordTracker, MIDIwrench and even OnSong (I'm using the free 30 day trial), saw the Genos first time, but not ForScore. Hugely frustrating.

For the record, I'm using the latest ForScore version 12.0.10 on an iPad Pro (12.9 inch 2nd Generation) running iOS 14.4.

Now the (nearly) good news.

I fished out a very old iPad Mini running iOS 9.35 with ForScore version 10.5.7 and ForScore instantly saw the Genos in the MIDI scan.

I then followed your instructions and got a Genos registration to select the appropriate ForScore PDF. Unfortunately, I can't reverse the process, ie selecting the PDF doesn't change the Genos registration. Ironically, that's the process that works for Gerard.

I probably need to start again and make sure I've not missed anything in the Genos MIDI set up.

As for the iPad Pro, I wonder if it's the current version of ForScore that might be the issue so I'm going to email their support for advice.

I'll report back in due course.

Cheers

Chris

[AndiiRoo]

Hi Chris

Weird or wot ?   

On your Genos, go into Midi - and with your Midi Template loaded, check out the behaviour of the 1-16 Channel led's for Port1(MIDI A) and Port2(MIDI B) running along the bottom of the page.

With the Transmit Tab selected:
In Forscore, (after checking the tick is still against the Genos in Midi Network Settings), select alternating Scores and check out the flashing green leds. If you are using my settings outlined earlier on, the green led for Port 2, Chl 2 should flash

On the Receive Tab:
I get a green flashes on Chl 1, on both Port 1 and Port 2.

This hopefully will help to troubleshoot connections between the ipad & the Genos, and that your Forscore 'Send' setting is reaching the Genos. If is doesn't show up it's an iPad/Forscore issue, if it does then it may well be in your Registration Bank Setup.
FWIW my Registrations are all saved in my User Drive, in the REGIST folder (in the root of the hard disk), numbered 001, 002 etc, with a space before the song title, with no gaps between the numbers, and 001 being the first entry, (apart from folders holding my other Registrations, which does not affect things)

I hope this takes you further forward, let me know, although reading Scores on an ipad mini screen  ..............

I'm aiming to upgrade to an ipad pro as well soon, so shall be hoping to set it all up on that as well in due course

Cheers, Andy

[frozzers]

Hi Andrew

Unfortunately, I can't get the tick for the Genos in the forScore MIDI settings on the iPad Pro. It just continually scan so no chance of flashing lights on the Genos.

For the iPad Mini, I get the tick but because I'm only able to get things working from Genos ---> iPad, I can't see the MIDI screen on the Genos to check for flashing lights because I have to be on the Registration screen. Since it's at least working one way, I assume they'll be there.

You're right about using an iPad Mini. It's no fun at all.

I emailed forScore support earlier to ask for help and will let you know what they say.

It would be useful to hear if anyone else has got this working and if so what iPad they're using.

Cheers

Chris

[AndiiRoo]

Hi Chris, I was referring to the ipad mini where you mention that you can change Scores in Forscore from the Genos. (In fact you can check the leds, as the Genos Regist Bank + & - buttons (pressing up and/or down) still work even if you are looking at the Midi Template page on the Genos display).

To check what's happening the other way around, from Forscore on the ipad mini to the Genos, (to change Genos registrations), you can have the Genos showing the Midi Template display as you try to select Scores in Forscore. I hope I have understood ok what you are doing

[frozzers]

Hi Andrew

I've got it working both ways!

As you suggested, I checked the MIDI Receive page when I changed a score on the iPad and did see a light flash so I did a bit of experimenting and came up with a solution.

To get forScore to change a registration on the Genos, on the Genos MIDI page, I changed:

System
System Exclusive Message
Receive = On

I left every other setting in accordance with your instructions.

Brilliant! Now just waiting for forScore to reply to my email about the iPad Pro.

Cheers

Chris

[AndiiRoo]

Great Stuff, Excellent ! 

Whoops, my SEM Receive is on as well, only the other 3 on the page are off. Sorry, I think maybe I looked at an older experimental template or just misread this page off the screen without really thinking about it. Thanks, I've amended my above post.

I hope you get a reply from Forscore about the MD BT101, it will be great to have it running on your ipad pro screen

Cheers, Andy

[frozzers]

Hi Andy

To recap, I emailed forScore support saying I could get the two way process working on my old iPad Mini but only forScore ==> Genos on my iPad Pro and that the problem seemed to be linked to the Genos not being recognised in the MIDI scanning process in forScore on the iPad Pro.

I've now had a reply:

'Thanks for your patience. We’ve been noticing some intermittent MIDI-related issues lately, that we believe may be system bugs, possibly related to changes made to their CoreMIDI framework. But I don’t have anything more conclusive to offer, nor any troubleshooting at this time. Given our current priorities around beta testing the forScore 12.1 release and limited capacity (we’re a company of only two people), it may be some time before we can circle back on this to investigate further.'

I'm assuming 'their CoreMIDI framework' is Apple's framework. That would make sense as I think one of the recent iOS updates broke Songbook+'s MIDI functionality. It may be the same issue with forScore.

Anyway this is unlikely to be resolved any time soon.

Meanwhile, I see that Gerard has posted a possible workaround:

https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,58625.0.html

When I get time, I'll have a look at that.

Cheers

Chris

[AndiiRoo]

Hi Chris, thanks for the feedback. If the anticipated March 21st Apple speculations are correct about updated ipad pro,I shall be getting one and will be looking at it all again. Interesting about your thoughts on a possible link to the issue recently experienced with Songbook+ as although OnSong works with the MD BT101 ok, they did initially warn about updating to the latest ios.

I was aware of the button feature on a Forscore score, and had been toying with the idea of looking into the possibility of adding another button for an additional alternative midi command, but a quick look at this now shows great potential for all sorts of options with as many or few as required. I think I shall have to start using the program sooner rather than later

Cheers, Andy

[frozzers]

Hi Andy

I've just realised I didn't post a link here to a new topic I started on this in the 'Tablets' board.

https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,58771.0.html

No need to delay getting an iPad Pro now!

Cheers

Chris

[AndiiRoo]

Hi Chris, many thanks, nice one, I've still got my camera connecter and USB/midi connector from my Tyros days.

Yup, there's a new iPad Pro soon hopefully, accordingly to the Apple leaks, so it would be a bad move not to wait for that, much as I'm desperate to get one.

I did think that the feedback from Forscore was a bit of a cop-out though, the Yamaha MD BT101 is Bluetooth 4 compliant, and everything else seems to work with it as it should, as does Forscore itself on older iPads. I still think Forscore needs tweaking for iOS14 as other Apps have done following their own iOS14 issues, rather than suggesting that it is a Yamaha peculiarity.

Cheers, Andy

[Gérard Marcy]

Yes, sorry about the video quality, it was a quick demo on my mobile to show that each way selections between Genos Registrations, and Songs in Forscore, can be achieved. It's clearer on a PC screen.
This is what I do in Forscore v10.5, Maybe a different layout in v12?

I use the Yamaha MD-BT01 bluetooth adapter in Port 2 (B), which I personally find is way more stable in OnSong than Port A, and this reflects in the numbers in my following example.

You need a midi template and I find it best to start from the empty MIDI OFF template in Midi Presets.
On the System tab page 2/2 I have ON for System Exclusive Message Receive, the other 3 entries are all OFF.
On the Transmit page I only have one entry - Part 'Song CH1' Channel 'Port2Ch2', everything else is Off.
On the Receive page I have all 16 Port1 Channels set to 'Song', and  under Part, Port2Ch1 set to 'Keyboard'.
Save the Template and for me this allows OnSong, Forscore, VanBasco's Karaoke Player playing through the Genos, and Chord Tracker.

On the Genos, Registrations must be numbered consecutively 001, 002 etc

In Forscore - Suitcase Icon - Settings - Midi Network - Scan - put a tick against Genos when its' found.
Load a song in Forscore, tap on title, click midi tab:
Click SEND, click on +, select Program Change from the menu. In the 4 boxes Chl-MSB-LSB-0-127 type 1-0-9-0 (if for example 009 is the Registration you want to select - enter in the LSB box, not the 0-127 box).
Click OPEN, then on the + sign, then on 'Learn' from the menu, then on the Genos, open the Regist Bank page by holding down the Regist Bank Select + and - buttons, then touch Registration number 009. If it is all connected ok, you will see the Hex Codes read into Forscore and saved automatically.

I hope I've remembered to write down everything, OnSong works quite differently from a one line Program Change number in a midi file saved to each Registration. I see no reason why this couldn't also be used for Forscore, but I haven't explored that yet

Hello Andy,
Great, your method works!
We advance ... we advance ...

But ... because there is always a but, not always:
If I choose another registration from the same bank, nothing happens.
In fact it only works if there is a change of bank before the change of registration.
I haven't found a way around this problem yet.

Sincerely, Gérard

[Gérard Marcy]

I haven't found a way around this problem yet.

Eureka, I think I have found a solution!
Using the Playlist everything works, always.
I continue my tests ...

[AndiiRoo]

Hi Gérard, I've only just picked up on your posts, thanks and I look forward to looking at this - new iPad Pro being delivered at the end of the month