Author Topic: What a headache YEM is  (Read 2342 times)

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Offline ugawoga

What a headache YEM is
« on: July 18, 2021, 08:37:07 PM »
HI

Since the latest update i already had a Base CQI file with all packs in and another single one loaded in the family tree linking method.
When i go to add a single pack the CQI is missing and only CPI showed in the drop down bar on computer.
I uninstalled the latest Yem and reinstalled it.
Now it shows up , but i had to start all over making a base file. Success at last after sweating in this torrid time now we are having in 28degrees England.

I have really started to get down and do some sampling with Sample Robot  and started on the Arturia synths.
The only trouble now is the size of the sample.
Yamaha keeps them down, but mine are coming out at roughly 200 Meg a sound.
So with 3 gig ,the most i would get is 15 Sounds without any packs loaded.
.Any suggestions as i could get a load more in the bomb bay underneath the Genos with a 64 gig stick, but somehow i would have to erase every time i get to full capacity on the YEM. and make another family tree. I suppose i could have several trees

How do you all get over this who owns a sampler?? I bet Chokbu has a good answer Lol.

All the Best
John :)

« Last Edit: July 18, 2021, 08:38:45 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline ckobu

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2021, 09:42:12 PM »
Hello John,

I'm not sure I understood you well. Granted, I figured this out with the heat but itís not a problem, you just turn on the air conditioner.

Donít use the latest YEM, itís slow. Use version 2.7.0. If you have already done everything with 2.8.1, then stay on it because you cannot enter the material in the older version.

And now to hear what exactly the problem is. One sound has 200 mb? OK, all of a sudden you can type 15 such sounds into the keyboard. You want to have multiple installation files on a 64 GB USB stick and then write them to Expansion Memory as needed. You want to have them as a CQI to make enrollment take faster.
Did I understand well what you need?
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Offline overover

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2021, 11:43:29 PM »
Hi John,

You have a maximum of 3GB Expansion Memory available for all Expansion Voices that you want to install at the same time. Of course you could have several Pack Install files on a USB stick. But you then have to reinstall the correct pack whenever you want to use the respective voices. USB sticks can NOT be used as additional expansion wave memory.

A basic "Full Pack Install" file is in the .cpi format (or .ppi if only unprotected packs are involved).

A "Quick Pack Install" file is in the .cqi format (or .pqi if only unprotected packs are involved).

Casper (ckobu) had shown in one of his tutorial videos how to create a "Basic" Pack Install file (.cpi) and, if desired, several "Quick" Pack Install files. Please note, however, that these Quick Pack Install files can only be installed in the order in which they were originally created. See the mentioned video from time position 7:00.
>>> https://youtu.be/xj8Anf4B3sY?t=419

So in some ways it can make sense to work exclusively with (several) "Full Pack Install" files (.cpi / .ppi) instead. The disadvantage here is that the expansion memory is then unfortunately reformatted with EVERY pack installation.


P.S.
Unfortunately, "normal" users do not have access to special compression methods that Yamaha uses for the voice samples in expansion packs. Voices created by the user, on the other hand, can only be realized with uncompressed WAV samples, so these Voices need more space in the expansion memory.

If you use Sample Robot and specify "best" or "good" or "original" quality, the automatically generated / looped / key mapped samples / sf2 files will probably be relatively large.

However, you could achieve a lower storage requirement by ...
- using fewer individual samples, i.e. do not sample each key individually, but use each sample for e.g. three consecutive keys and / or
- using shorter note lengths, loop lengths or, for samples that have not yet been looped at all, use a loop (and implement the sound decay via a corresponding amp envelope).

Quote from the chapter "Ultra Quick Start" in the Sample Robot 6 Pro manual (page 11):

"Please note that the higher the values for Velocity
Layer and the lower the Key-Step the more detailed
the virtual copy gets, but on the other hand it takes
longer to record the instrument and more disk space
and more software sampler performance is required.
So it is wise to choose a compromise between quality
and quantity."



Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: July 19, 2021, 12:18:38 AM by overover »
Everyone always said: "This is not possible!" - Then someone came and ... just did it!
 

Offline mikf

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2021, 02:50:13 AM »
Quote from: ckobu link
ÖÖÖitís not a problem, you just turn on the air conditioner.
[/quote
Air conditioning. ÖÖ. In England???? That must be a feature on the Genos. 😄😄😄
 

Offline ckobu

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2021, 05:23:56 AM »
Ufff, I didn't think about it. In my area it is an integral part of housing, heating and cooling. You can't live without it.
But I agree as a suggestion for a new Genos, instead of a lower USB stick we need a small fan to cool for the player.  ;D
Watch my video channel
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2021, 08:37:21 AM »
Hi Chokbu
In England we normally put the heating on!! ;D
So, we have a fan just for the short period we get heat, Yes, that wafts around the big heat a little faster only getting a slight effect!!. Phew!!

I did say that i have made a family tree with pack files on a USB stick and you cannot break that or then it is back to making a basic start file again and progressing from there.
I do agree that the latest yem is slow.

Chris
 The sample i made yesterday fron the Arturia synth was 200Mb with  4 sample points key step 12.
So i will really have to select a range i need for what i want.

Would this work----

So you now would have to get the 3 gig of sample information on several sticks and a lot of hassle of reformatting and building back up to 3 gig
So really you can only get 3 gig on a stick. That is a waste of a 16 gig stick lol.
Really is is best then just to get a sound only that you cannot get on the Genos or just work with the VST in Cubase.
I wonder how Yamaha keeps the packs down to low value in mb's. Must have some Argon Accuulator compression device that folds space and time. ::) :P ;D

All the best
John :)
« Last Edit: July 19, 2021, 08:43:59 AM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline DerekA

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2021, 11:02:00 AM »
If I remember right, the M1 had a *total* wave ROM sample size of about 4MB!! Genos has more than 1000 times that in ROM and nearly 1000 times that in rewritable flash memory. We are truly spoilt these days :)
Genos
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2021, 04:25:14 PM »
Hi
Things have advanced and sounds are eating more and more space.
Getting down to yhe nitty gritty can i---------

I have just say 3 gig of packs on the Genos. Now that is stored on the USB under the Genos in the Bomb bay. I format that back to 0.
I now make a new base file and add again and 3gig is used  and on a USB 64 gig plugged in the top of Genos.
Take that out make another format and put on second Usb.
Now transfer then on to the first usb , then repeat when run out of space again
So the first usb could now store up to 64 gig of samples and then all should show up on Genos and choose what you want.
Is that a possible???
All the Best
John :)
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline mikf

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2021, 06:16:27 PM »
I have never seen it mentioned before, but one issue with YEM is that Yamaha has only made it compatible with a relatively small number of keyboards. The CVP 805 costs about $12,000, and is easily Yamahas most expensive electronic keyboard, has almost full Genos features but no access to YEM, so none of the additional styles voices etc are available. Itís hard to see why that would have taken much effort from Yamaha.
Mike
 

Offline overover

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2021, 07:23:36 PM »
I have never seen it mentioned before, but one issue with YEM is that Yamaha has only made it compatible with a relatively small number of keyboards. The CVP 805 costs about $12,000, and is easily Yamahas most expensive electronic keyboard, has almost full Genos features but no access to YEM, so none of the additional styles voices etc are available. Itís hard to see why that would have taken much effort from Yamaha.
Mike

I currently have no service documents for the CVP-805/809. Presumably two "SWP70" tone generator chips are built into these models, just like in the Genos. However, since these CVP models have much more elaborately sampled Piano voices, I suspect that the entire built-in NAND Flash memory (presumably 6 GB in total as with the Genos) is required for the Preset voices. So there is probably no more memory available for additional Expansion voices.


Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: July 19, 2021, 07:28:13 PM by overover »
Everyone always said: "This is not possible!" - Then someone came and ... just did it!
 

Offline mikf

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2021, 10:09:08 PM »
Chris
You could be right, but my observation has been that many of these kind of decisions in Yamaha might be marketing rather than technology driven.
Mike
 

Offline wersianer

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2021, 10:15:05 AM »
I can't understand why Yamaha isn't finally streaming the sounds from the hard drive.
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2021, 11:03:42 AM »
Why cant we load single sounds without destroying packs.???  come on Yamaha!!
We can then stack them up on a usb ready to pick and choose
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline ckobu

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2021, 11:15:42 AM »
We can load a single sound without destroying existing content. We can do this wirelessly via YEM or using Quick Instalation if we insert it from a USB stick.
Watch my video channel
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2021, 12:14:44 PM »
Hi Chokbu
Which video contains this information?
I will go over and and have a Butchers (English term for having a look) ::) :)
Later i will go over to CNN USA to see how that Amazon guy Jeff Bezos being blasted into space
Here in UK live from 12:30 GMT

All the Best
John :)
« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 12:35:15 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline ckobu

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2021, 12:27:23 PM »
Iím here all the time and watching from the sidelines.
Let them just fly, I donít like adventures of that type.
In my country it is said, praise the sea - stick to the end (coast).  ;D
Watch my video channel
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2021, 12:36:44 PM »
Hi Chokbu

I agree there, and surely i would not like a tank full rocket fuel burning my rear end!! :)
By the way which video contains the information on Utube?

All the best
John
« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 12:39:04 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline ckobu

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2021, 12:44:06 PM »
He he, and you still have to pay to burn behind you.  ;D

Better translation, praise the sea - stay by the coast.

Where did we stop this with your problem?


Here I added via Wifi only one UVN file to the keyboard. In the same way you can add some other parts (sf2, Style, ppf ...)
https://youtu.be/yHxPPE5tQGw
« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 12:47:46 PM by ckobu »
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Offline ugawoga

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2021, 12:50:23 PM »
Burn Baby Burn!!! ;D  ouuuch!! :-X

Just want to know which of you video shows how wi-fi can load a single sound.

All the Best
John

Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline ckobu

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2021, 12:55:27 PM »
We write slower than we think. There is a link in the post above.
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Offline ugawoga

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2021, 01:10:14 PM »
Hi
Thank's Chokbu i will report back later


All the best
John :)
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline DerekA

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2021, 02:41:01 PM »
Adding a new voice to the installed pack seems easy enough - but what about when you run out of space? Do voices you deselect also get removed on a quick install?

I have never actually managed to get the quick install to work, I have to do a full install (3GB) every time. And it takes around 2-3 hours :( Maybe there is some corruption somewhere in one of the packs.
Genos
 
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Offline ugawoga

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2021, 02:45:29 PM »
Hi chokbu

I looked at the video and i see that one.
What i should of said was why cant we import one sound file into the Genos without being in a pack.
This way we could save many sounds to Usb and have heavy samples to choose from, when we need them.
I must admit the latest YEM is slow, Musn''t grumble!! ;D
Looks like you cannot import sounds separately into the Genos.
So if i had a pack with my samples in and imported into the Genos, i could save my sample pack to a USB stick.
If i erase the samples in Yem and make a new set in the same folder, re-import and i could then save another batch of samples to the USB stick.
But we are stuck again as we can only import packs!! with a ceiling of 3gig  cul de sac!! ::) Wuga Wuga!! :P

All the best
John :) ;)


All the best
John
« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 03:17:59 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline ckobu

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2021, 03:22:50 PM »
Adding a new voice to the installed pack seems easy enough - but what about when you run out of space? Do voices you deselect also get removed on a quick install?

I have never actually managed to get the quick install to work, I have to do a full install (3GB) every time. And it takes around 2-3 hours :( Maybe there is some corruption somewhere in one of the packs.

That's right, deselection will free up space in Expansion Memory. The video shows the process of entering material into the keyboard via WiFi. It is similar to Quick Installation but the process is completely different.
For quick installation, we use a USB stick and files that have the pQi extension.

Your installation speed is not good. There may be files that slow this down. I noticed this is the case with the Sf2 format. This is the speed I measured.

https://youtu.be/u_mhMk889pA



Hi chokbu

I looked at the video and i see that one.
What i should of said was why cant we import one sound file into the Genos without being in a pack.
This way we could save many sounds to Usb and have heavy samples to choose from, when we need them.
I must admit the latest YEM is slow, Musn''t grumble!! ;D
Looks like you cannot import sounds separately into the Genos.
So if i had a pack with my samples in and imported into the Genos, i could save my sample pack to a USB stick.
If i erase the samples in Yem and make a new set in the same folder, re-import and i could then save another batch of samples to the USB stick.
But we are stuck again as we can only import packs!! with a ceiling of 3gig  cul de sac!! ::) Wuga Wuga!! :P

All the best
John :) ;)


All the best
John



Hi John,
  you have to follow my channel carefully  ;D, as soon as 2.8.1 came out I emphasized in the video that it is slow and not used.

I showed adding one file. But you can also add more files to an existing Pack. You can throw out the ones you don't need and test what you need all the time. When you are satisfied, you will create an Installation file (ppi or pqi).

You can't run "heavy samples" from a USB stick. The USB protocol is very slow and therefore Waveform Packages must be installed in Expansion Memory.

Watch this video, somehow it seems to me that you do not understand everything that is needed.

https://youtu.be/abOb0fUIC2Y
Watch my video channel
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2021, 03:56:29 PM »
Hi Chobu

I will take another look
I see what you mean now


All the Best
John :)
« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 04:06:59 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline Drsun19

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2021, 04:16:27 PM »
I use Sample Robot as well and i have tried somehow to get light Sf2 libraries. The point is to sample what you need, i.e. maybe 5 notes maximum and the rest to complete it with the last note i mean C3 can be for C0 to C3 because these are notes that i'll rarely use. Also, i think that we are obssesive in sampling ans sampling and sampling...the reality is that we don't use everything we sample and we don't get the most of the Genos sounds which are also very good. My dream was to have some M1 sounds but 300mb for the sounds when the real M1 had less than 40mb capacity(IDK if that is true) i consider it a problem...I have some colleagues that have keyboards with less capacity and could sample the M1 sounds with less than 20 mb for 5 to 10 sounds and sound great with effects.

I have my genos full but the reality is that i don't use everything i have loaded.

Luis.
Genos, Montage 7, Alesis Vortex Wireless 2, IMac 32Gb RAM, Lenovo Legion i7, Yamaha DXR 12, Cubase 10.5, Sample Robot, Style Magic YA, Keyscape, Omnisphere.
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2021, 04:43:07 PM »
Hi Chokbu
Now let see if i have got this

So i can make packs in Yem and export to usb after editing.
I then load an Installation file from the Superior pack
If i do that it will erase all on the expansion.( so i will have to do this once).
When reformat done i now can add packs without using Yem.
So this way seems the best to load a lot of packs into the Expansion without too much fuss.
Is this right??



All the Best
John :) :)
« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 04:47:33 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2021, 04:46:36 PM »
I use Sample Robot as well and i have tried somehow to get light Sf2 libraries. The point is to sample what you need, i.e. maybe 5 notes maximum and the rest to complete it with the last note i mean C3 can be for C0 to C3 because these are notes that i'll rarely use. Also, i think that we are obssesive in sampling ans sampling and sampling...the reality is that we don't use everything we sample and we don't get the most of the Genos sounds which are also very good. My dream was to have some M1 sounds but 300mb for the sounds when the real M1 had less than 40mb capacity(IDK if that is true) i consider it a problem...I have some colleagues that have keyboards with less capacity and could sample the M1 sounds with less than 20 mb for 5 to 10 sounds and sound great with effects.

I have my genos full but the reality is that i don't use everything i have loaded.

Luis.

Hi Luis
Yes ,i just really want some sounds that i really want but the megabytes do mount up into gigabytes very quickly.
Sample robot is spot on. The sampled sounds are fantastic with a few adjustments.

All the Best
John :)
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline overover

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2021, 08:04:21 PM »
Hi John,

I'm not sure if this has already been addressed in this (somewhat "confusing") thread: ;)

A ppf Pack file can contain up to 128 Normal voices plus 128 Drum voices, but the ppf format can also be used to store just one single voice (or a few voices).

An sf2 (soundfont) file can also contain several (many) different voices or just ONE voice.

Both ppf and sf2 files can be imported into the YEM as a "Pack" (so that a new Pack is created automatically), but you can also import ppf or sf2 files as "Content" into an existing Pack.

If you are importing a self-created/self-sampled voice (which is initially available in sf2 format) into the YEM for the first time, I would do this with "Import Pack". After you have set various parameters according to your wishes in the YEM, you save this Pack (which only contains this one voice) in ppf format (using "Export Pack").

You can later very easily import these "single voice" ppf Packs into a new, empty or an existing Pack in the YEM in any combination (using "Import Content"). You also save these "Compilation Packs" with "Export Pack" as a new ppf file. If you only want to save certain voices (or only a single voice) of an existing Pack as a new ppf Pack, you only select the desired voice(s) in YEM and use "Export Selected Content as Pack".

So you only have to import an sf2 into the YEM once. Later you will only work with the ppf Pack files created from them (which, as I said, can also contain only one single voice, if required).


Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 08:09:16 PM by overover »
Everyone always said: "This is not possible!" - Then someone came and ... just did it!
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2021, 09:33:38 PM »
Hi Chris
I am only trying to get sample packs over to the Expansion on to a 64 gig stick which is plenty over to the Expansion.
Once all over you have up to 64 gig to choose from if you want.
Looking at ChokBu or Caspers  video it looks like by importing the Installation file from the Superior pack and loading packs in from usb  a little more painless.
I can make samples and make packs in Yem and export them to usb to load them without using Yem and having to format
All the Best
John :)
« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 10:07:14 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline overover

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2021, 09:55:43 PM »
Hi John,

Right now, whether we like it or not, we have to work with the YEM-based Expansion Voice technology. That means, all self-created Voices (same as Yamaha packs or third party Packs if you want to combine them) have to go to the YEM first, there is no getting around that. After installation on the keyboard, if certain rules are followed, you can also add or delete individual Expansion content without the memory being formatted (via WiFi installation or Pack Quick Installation via USB).

The Tone Generator SWP70 currently used by Yamaha (which is built into Genos, SX models, the latest CVP generation as well as Montage and MODX) is limited to the so-called "NAND Flash" memory technology for storing the Wave samples used. In order to use "Disk Streaming" for the samples in a Genos successor, Yamaha would have to use/develop a completely new Tone Generator technology.


Best regards,
Chris
Everyone always said: "This is not possible!" - Then someone came and ... just did it!
 

Offline ckobu

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2021, 10:13:55 PM »
That's right Chris. Or in other words.

We can only play on the keyboard with samples installed in Expansion Memory. So we can use a maximum of 3GB of samples at a time.
A USB stick that is plugged into the keyboard and has 64 GB of samples prepared cannot be used for playing.

To use USB stick Pack, we need to install them in Expansion Memory. And that takes at least some time, 5 minutes, 20 ... it depends on what we want to type.

But it's not that important. It is important that Bezos and his team happily returned to safe ground. I was very scared for him.  :-X
Watch my video channel
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2021, 11:12:23 PM »
Hi Chokbu
I get what your saying, but can you put more than 3 gig of samples on expansion USB Stick and choose from that stick what you what ??
Or, is just 3gig of packs at a time,otherwise it has to format for the next 3 gig.
I was thinking , maybe you could stack them up on usb up to 64gig which would show in the expansion and just call up what is needed.
Like you say put the install file in and you can load straight into the Genos Expansion. I was thinking that more than 3gig could then be put on a 64 gig Usb stick underneath in separate packs.

I know this is a pain but do you know what i am trying to say Hope!!
So if not only 3gig can only be put in the Expansion whatever way you do it or you would face a format situation.

All the best    The Bezos journey looked great on my screen especially granny!!
John
ps Just seen the Space station go over our house in UK heading your way. Must be gone 12pm over where you are. 11pm here.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 11:27:49 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline ckobu

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2021, 11:42:17 PM »
You only have 3 GB on your keyboard at a time. Samples on the USB stick will not play or be displayed on the keyboard. You must instal them in the Extension first. It takes a few minutes to half an hour, depending on what you instal (pPi or pQI) and how big the data is.

I only use 100 mb of my own sample. I know itís funny but all I need is already in the keyboard.

My advice is to make your Pack up to 3 gb in which you will put material that is not in Genos. Iím sure thatís quite enough for all the exotic sounds youíre used to.

My time zone is the same as England. But above my house I saw no ship. Only some cute little birds were flying.  ;D
Watch my video channel
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2021, 12:19:12 AM »
Hi Chockbu

I get what you mean and thank you for your patience and help
I was on about the International Spacestation that circles the Earth evry 1.5 hours.
On a clear night at the right tragetory it is very bright and takes about 7 minutes from one end of the sky to the other and then outta sight!! :)
At the same time outside quite a few pigeons fell off their perches in the trees and a couple of magpies was in there also. Sounded like a machine gun going off. What a commotion, just as i was taking in the peaceful flaming hot night. No aliens though to report, only stupid birds that lose their balance in the darkan my 3 gig ::)



All the best
John :) off to bed now.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 12:30:31 AM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline ckobu

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2021, 06:49:10 AM »
Hi John,

Flying around the Earth was certainly a wonderful experience. When I fly the first round, I will immediately make a video for my friends.  ;D
Iím sorry the birds got hurt, but I guess thatís how it has to be. What is progress for the human species is often a bad path for the nature in which they live. Maybe Yamaha didnít allow 64GB of memory for that reason.  8)

regards, Chockbu  ;D (casper)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 06:50:53 AM by ckobu »
Watch my video channel
 

Offline roltec54

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2021, 07:05:30 AM »
hello Casper,
What beautiful images of conclusions and it is so true! Yamaha would give us 1 TB that we would demand even more!
And then, we can do a little sorting in our YEMs!
As you say, there are so many good things in the base of our Genos!
I am far from knowing all the styles, voices, multipads of my keyboard.
  musically
roltec54 (michel)

Offline ugawoga

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2021, 09:28:38 AM »
Hi Michel

Do you not think with such a keyboard as the Genos that sounds ought be loaded in easy banks like you can with VST instruments and stored on several sticks if that is what you want.
Yes there are a lot of sounds on the Genos and there is a lot of great sounds from VST like better choirs, guitars, Brass and spacey stuff, evolving sounds.
For me i would cut out gimmicks like chord Looper and things like that to have a score sheet reader like Mobile sheets incorporated ,which could be sent to a monitor for a4 sheet size and controlled by air turn. That would be a £1000 off an ipad.

I do practice every day,so the rust does not creep in and chords are not that hard if you practice. It does take time to get used to take hands of keyboard and press buttons, but again lots of practice, all comes. Chord looper a waste of time IMO! :o
The Genos is a great instrument, but Yem is clumsy and looks like a ZX Spectrum program... "Oh Bring Me Sunshine"!!! 8) 8) 8) 8) ::) :P :P :P :D :). I need a deck Chair and a cool Budweiser now!! Hot, Hot Hot!!

All the best
John
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 09:32:24 AM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline EileenL

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2021, 11:38:56 AM »
With all the great voices on Genos already how many more would you want that you would actually use on a regular basis. Many of my friends have now discarded a lot of voices that they used on earlier keyboards as they realised they did not actually use them but just kept them because they were there. 3 Gb will hold quite a lot of sound effects and voices you don't have on the keyboard. Just how many can you use at any one time.

Offline ugawoga

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2021, 02:46:08 PM »
Hi Eileen
There are certain sounds that are far better than the Genos which you can sample from a VST instrument , but they come with a high megabyte count.
200mb plus for some multi-samples .
I sampled a Choir from Sample tank which is far superior that the Genos sound and it fitted when i played and made Mr Blue Sky.
In that song i needed a mix of men and women to make it sound almost authentic. The High's and lows.
I like Physchadelic sounds also as i come from the 60s /70s generation.
Today's music has all gone pepper piggy. In my view the last of the great music ended in the 80's. From then onwards all got dumbed down.
Just like Free Dumb Day 19thJuly. i am 70 now , but still like to rock
Dont get me wrong as the Genos has great sounds, but sometimes i like to have some good evolving sounds.
The saxes on Genos are 100% in my view. Nice and warm sounding, choirs are not so good on the Genos  as they sound unreal.
It is all fun though Eileen.
Just think Eileen if Yamaha made a good score reader which you could put on a 21 Inch monitor and still use the Air turn, that  would save you a £1000 on the ipad.
Oh well we can all dream.
Hope you are coping with this hot weather. I am just about  in my Tarzan outfit!!! :o :P ;D Lol!! ;D

All the Best
John :)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 02:58:29 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline pjd

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2021, 06:47:44 PM »
Hi John --

Back to your original question. I use Sample Robot, too. Sample Robot has many options during sampling that affect the number of samples taken, their size, and how they are looped. All three of these factors affect the total size of a voice.

Excepting pianos, Yamaha itself rarely uses more than 15 to 20 samples in a single-layer voice. They do not sample every note. Usually the top and bottom samples cover the lowest and highest notes that are generally out of range for an acoustic instrument. Samples in between typically cover four to five notes each.

The other space-saver is looping. Often there isn't a need to play a sound from beginning to end. The beginning attack is the most important. Sustains are looped. Short loops consume less space. Everything after the looped portion can be trimmed, thereby saving more space.

Hope these tips helps -- pj
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2021, 07:33:46 PM »
Hi Pj
I never thought of that ,make the loop shorter.
I just made another choir sample, more jarresque and that looped came out at 200 mb. I used 4 samples with 8.5 seconds length before looping
I will have a few experiments making shorter loops.
I was trying to work a way of saving all sample made  and i came up with the 3 gig ceilng and format for Yem and Genos
I was also trying to get a yes and no answer where maybe there is a way around that.
So i thought make a base file in Yem and then a quickstall for next file to contain samples.
Install to  Expansion memory and from there transfer them to another usb stick.
I have found out that sounds in the expansion transfered to a new stick and say put one back in the keyboard user section,  it works.
So again why not delete the sounds in the file in Yem and make some more inside same file and quick install again.
By repeating that you could build up quite a few on a usb stick and just load the ones that you want to use.
I now understand if i deleted contents in the sample folder in Yem, that when i come to reinstall to expansion , i would again be confronted by a format situation again.
Surely if that happened i still have all those files on another stick to pick from as they were already in the Expansion and installed the correct way.
It would only mean a little more pain in waitng  sort it all out and get settled.
Can you see what i am thinking, or am i going loco??. I bet Chokbu thinks i am one over the cuckoos nest . Get Nurse Ratched!! Noooo!! " I wanna play trains"!! Choo Choo!! ::) ;D


All the best
John :)  I think it is the 31 degree heat ,not used to that here in UK :P
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 07:37:21 PM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox
 

Offline overover

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2021, 09:00:43 AM »
Hi Pj
I never thought of that ,make the loop shorter.
I just made another choir sample, more jarresque and that looped came out at 200 mb. I used 4 samples with 8.5 seconds length before looping
I will have a few experiments making shorter loops. ...

Hi John,

I already mentioned here that you can save sample storage space by using shorter note lengths or shorter loop lengths:
...
If you use Sample Robot and specify "best" or "good" or "original" quality, the automatically generated / looped / key mapped samples / sf2 files will probably be relatively large.

However, you could achieve a lower storage requirement by ...
- using fewer individual samples, i.e. do not sample each key individually, but use each sample for e.g. three consecutive keys and / or
- using shorter note lengths, loop lengths or, for samples that have not yet been looped at all, use a loop (and implement the sound decay via a corresponding amp envelope). ...


...
I was trying to work a way of saving all sample made  and i came up with the 3 gig ceilng and format for Yem and Genos
I was also trying to get a yes and no answer where maybe there is a way around that.
So i thought make a base file in Yem and then a quickstall for next file to contain samples.
Install to  Expansion memory and from there transfer them to another usb stick.
I have found out that sounds in the expansion transfered to a new stick and say put one back in the keyboard user section,  it works.

...

The "Expansion" folder in the User drive (which is 58GB in total on Genos) is NOT the Expansion Wave Memory (3GB, which we are talking about all the time)!

When installing an Expansion Pack, the Wave data of the Expansion voices are automatically copied into the Expansion Wave Memory. However, the user has no direct access to this memory.

The "voices" that you see in the Expansion folder are only "Voice Set" files (.vce), comparable to User Voice files that are created when you change a Preset Voice and save it again. If you copy "voices" from the Expansion folder to a USB stick, these voices only work as long as the associated Wave data is also available in the Expansion Wave memory. If these Wave data are later deleted (e.g. due to a later Pack Installation that no longer contains these voices), the copied "voices" on the USB stick will no longer work.

So there is definitely no alternative way to Pack Installation (via WiFi or Full resp. Quick Installation via USB stick) . Or in other words: Expansion Voices that you want to use must be installed. You cannot temporarily "transfer" them to a USB stick by copying the voice files in question from the Expansion folder and simply copy them back later or use them from the USB stick.


Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 09:04:51 AM by overover »
Everyone always said: "This is not possible!" - Then someone came and ... just did it!
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: What a headache YEM is
« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2021, 10:24:44 AM »
Hi Chris
Now you have explained what i needed to know in your last paragragh
Yes,
  i was only looking at ways to get around the situation , but it seems you are always stumped by the 3 gig rule and Yem.
You get a vst like the M1 keyboard and you can load in what you want from a large banks. Same as FM8.
Would be nice if Yamaha devised a better way than this pack system. It is so out of date in my view and slow.
Thanks for your patience and Chokbu for explaining all of this .
Ok shorter files and not so many!! :)


All the Best
John :) :) :)   Ps, Why cant Yamaha sell there compression program??? " I'm sure that would sell"!! 8) " Can't win e'm all"! ::) :-[ "Musn't Grumble"! :-\ :-*
Should the next Genos be a Montage which is cabable of playing styles??? " For us Baby Boomers, Rockers and 80s synth generation. (Definitely not EDM though, because all you need is a flashing light sample generator and a kids win up toy machine). (Almost forgot ,you would also need a Moaning Myrtle singer and something to get you up to or on  speed.)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 11:04:55 AM by ugawoga »
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox