Author Topic: Style volume control with foot pedal  (Read 1266 times)

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Offline sunny

Style volume control with foot pedal
« on: July 11, 2021, 05:44:43 PM »
Friends,

I want to control style volume with foot pedal FC7. Is there any way either with an external MIDI device ?

Thanks,
Sunny
 

Offline travlin-easy

Re: Style volume control with foot pedal
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2021, 06:11:30 PM »
Yes, this can be done with the FC7. Just a matter of selecting which parameter(s) you wish to control. Use the direct access button while pressing down on the pedal, then determine which parts you want to control and which you want to freeze.

Gary  8)
Love Those Yammies...
 
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Offline mikf

Re: Style volume control with foot pedal
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2021, 07:47:12 PM »
What do you mean “with an external midi device”?? The FC7 doesn’t connect via midi.
Mike
 

Offline overover

Re: Style volume control with foot pedal
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2021, 08:24:01 PM »
Hi Sunny,

With the FC7 it works as described by Gary: To only control the Style volume, remove all ticks except for "Style" in the Foot Pedal setting display (for the pedal set to "VOLUME").

By the way, I work a little differently here: I set the STYLE volume via Registrations and just use the Master Volume dial if necessary. The FC7 basically only affects the RIGHT parts for me.


P.S.
It is NOT possible to connect two FC7 pedals at the same time, e.g. one pedal for the STYLE volume and the other pedal for the RIGHT volume. (Due to restrictions in the operating system, both pedals would always have identical settings).

P.P.S.
It would be possible to control the overall Style volume via an external MIDI device. However, this is relatively complicated: You would have to send the corresponding MIDI "Expression" commands (CC #11) to all 8 Style channels at the same time: Receive Port2 (= MIDI B IN), Channels 9 - 16).


Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: July 11, 2021, 08:30:37 PM by overover »
Everyone always said: "This is not possible!" - Then someone came and ... just did it!
 

Offline sunny

Re: Style volume control with foot pedal
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2021, 05:21:41 AM »
Hi Sunny,

With the FC7 it works as described by Gary: To only control the Style volume, remove all ticks except for "Style" in the Foot Pedal setting display (for the pedal set to "VOLUME").

By the way, I work a little differently here: I set the STYLE volume via Registrations and just use the Master Volume dial if necessary. The FC7 basically only affects the RIGHT parts for me.


P.S.
It is NOT possible to connect two FC7 pedals at the same time, e.g. one pedal for the STYLE volume and the other pedal for the RIGHT volume. (Due to restrictions in the operating system, both pedals would always have identical settings).

P.P.S.
It would be possible to control the overall Style volume via an external MIDI device. However, this is relatively complicated: You would have to send the corresponding MIDI "Expression" commands (CC #11) to all 8 Style channels at the same time: Receive Port2 (= MIDI B IN), Channels 9 - 16).


Best regards,
Chris

Hi Chris,
As you said, two volume pedals cannot be used at a time, because one side, i am already using FC7 pedal to control Right Hand voices and now in this situation, it is not possible to control style volume with another pedal.  Hope Yamaha will address this mirroring problem in their next model.

Can you please suggest any low cost external MIDI device, to control style volume with a pedal ?

Thanks,
Sunny
« Last Edit: July 12, 2021, 02:14:24 PM by sunny »
 

Offline rbackes

Re: Style volume control with foot pedal
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2021, 08:23:35 AM »
If you consider 111€ cheap, I would recommend a Behringer FCB 1010. It has 2 Pedals, which can be mapped to any MIDI CC. Inside the Genos, you can map these to the channel or Keyboard region you want. I'm not sure, whether you can use the FCB pedals for Style Volume, but you can use it definitely for Volume/Expression control of the Right parts, leaving the other pedal free for controlling the Style volume.

Rainer
 

Offline sunny

Re: Style volume control with foot pedal
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2021, 02:17:34 PM »
If you consider 111€ cheap, I would recommend a Behringer FCB 1010. It has 2 Pedals, which can be mapped to any MIDI CC. Inside the Genos, you can map these to the channel or Keyboard region you want. I'm not sure, whether you can use the FCB pedals for Style Volume, but you can use it definitely for Volume/Expression control of the Right parts, leaving the other pedal free for controlling the Style volume.

Rainer

Any other MIDI pedals available to connect FC7 to the MIDI device ?

Thanks,
Sunny
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: Style volume control with foot pedal
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2021, 03:11:06 PM »
If the issue is getting the balance right between the style and voices, you can do that with an assignable knob.

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
Genos, Bose L1 compacts, Finale 2015
Check out my Registration Lessons
 

Offline sunny

Re: Style volume control with foot pedal
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2021, 03:53:46 PM »
If the issue is getting the balance right between the style and voices, you can do that with an assignable knob.

Cheers,
Fred

Hi Fred,
I like using pedal only, I hope MIDI experts in this forum suggest one MIDI device to connect external pedal like FC7.

Thanks,
Sunny
 

Offline sunny

Re: Style volume control with foot pedal
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2021, 03:55:50 PM »
Hi Sunny,

With the FC7 it works as described by Gary: To only control the Style volume, remove all ticks except for "Style" in the Foot Pedal setting display (for the pedal set to "VOLUME").

By the way, I work a little differently here: I set the STYLE volume via Registrations and just use the Master Volume dial if necessary. The FC7 basically only affects the RIGHT parts for me.


P.S.
It is NOT possible to connect two FC7 pedals at the same time, e.g. one pedal for the STYLE volume and the other pedal for the RIGHT volume. (Due to restrictions in the operating system, both pedals would always have identical settings).

P.P.S.
It would be possible to control the overall Style volume via an external MIDI device. However, this is relatively complicated: You would have to send the corresponding MIDI "Expression" commands (CC #11) to all 8 Style channels at the same time: Receive Port2 (= MIDI B IN), Channels 9 - 16).


Best regards,
Chris

Hi Chris,
What settings are needed on this Behringer MIDI device, to control Style(Accompaniment) volume only ?

Sunny
 

Re: Style volume control with foot pedal
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2021, 09:21:59 PM »
Sunny, keep it simple. Use the FC7 for the right hand volume and leave the style volume alone. I've played publicly using Yamaha arrangers for nearly 30 years and not once did I find it necessary to alter the style volume after I got it dynamically balanced with the overall sound and saved to a registration. On occasion, for whatever reason, I may have reduced the bass volume, but that was because the room response was very loud in the bass frequencies. Again, that was rare.

If you really need to play with volumes, Fred's right about using assignable knobs. The amount you need to adjust the style volume is usually very subtle - almost not worth touching at all and even more difficult to achieve using a foot pedal.

Think about it. Drummers and other rhythms players alter their dynamics, but nowhere near as much as singers and lead players. Before making major changes to the overall sound, think what a band would do on stage. Generally, if the style needs to come down, it's 99% likely the whole song needs to drop for a quiet part. Moving the style part up and down in volume doesn't make musical sense.

Just my thoughts...

- Lee
 

Offline overover

Re: Style volume control with foot pedal
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2021, 11:00:13 PM »
Hi Sunny,

It is not that easy to technically realize your wish to control the Style volume and the Right Voice volume on the Genos via two separate PEDALS.

I had already written that I only control the RIGHT parts with the FC7 pedal. I can only agree with Lee's last post: If you have made the basic adjustments in your Registrations in advance (suitable volume for Style, Multi Pad, MIDI / Audio Song and the Right Voices a little louder than required so that you still have some reserve with the FC7), In my opinion, you don't need an extra pedal for the Style volume. If necessary, you can easily readjust the Master volume and adjust the Right volumes again with the FC7.


1) A relatively simple solution for you would be to insert a stereo volume pedal between the Audio outputs (L/R) and the external mixer / sound system, e.g. something like this:
>>> https://www.thomann.de/gb/korg_xvp_20.htm

With this you can then easily control the overall volume, and with the FC7 you can additionally control the Right parts. I myself have played in the manner described for many years when I have performed solo. With my right foot I operated the volume pedal for the overall volume and with my left foot I operated the FC7 for the Right parts. At some point the effort became too much for me, so I left out the pedal for the overall volume. I still control the volume of the Right parts, i.e. the FC7, with my left foot. ;)


2) Another option would be to route all Style parts to two SUB Outputs and insert a stereo volume pedal into the Audio cables to the external mixer. However, this has the disadvantage that the Style sound changes because only INSERT effects are output at the SUB Outs, but not the SYSTEM effects (Chorus & Reverb effect blocks, and the Variation effect block if set to "System").


3) Controlling the entire STYLE volume externally via MIDI is, as already mentioned, relatively difficult, because, as far as I know, the parameter "Volume(Style) Offset" cannot be controlled via Continuous Controller (CC) messages on only ONE single MIDI channel. This is also not possible under "MIDI > External Controller". There you can work with up to five different controller numbers (CC#7, 1, 2, 3, 4), each of which is used to send internal Volume (= CC#7) or Expression (= CC#11) commands, but you can only control one (of the 8⁣) Style parts with one CC number.

There are "Expression Pedal to MIDI" converter boxes that you can connect an FC7 pedal to, e.g. something like this:
>>> https://www.thomann.de/gb/midi_solutions_pedal_to_midi_converter.htm
  or
>>> https://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpression.php
Attention: only the MIDI Expression "iO" (which has 4 pedal inputs) has a DIN MIDI output!

In addition, there are of course independent MIDI Expression Pedals, e.g .:
>>> https://beatbars.com/en/midi-expression-pedal.html

BUT: None of these devices can obviously send identical controller messages on 8 different MIDI channels at the same time.

You COULD now switch another device in between, e.g. a MIDI Event Processor ...
>>> https://www.thomann.de/gb/midi_solutions_event_processor.htm

... or an iPhone/iPad (with a corresponding MIDI interface) on which a corresponding MIDI routing app is running. But in my opinion, all of this is far too complicated and not necessary.


4)
I would like to briefly describe one last option: You can select the "Expression" function for CC#7 in "MIDI > External Controller" on the Genos and set the Part to "Keyboard". On the set MIDI Port (e.g. MIDI B) and MIDI channel (e.g. Ch 1) you can then control the volume of all Keyboard parts simultaneously with incoming CC#7 messages. However, the Right parts AND also the Left part are probably affected here.

As a pedal for this option you could use an FC7 in connection with a "Pedal to MIDI" converter box, or an independent MIDI expression pedal (as mentioned above), or e.g. a Behringer FCB1010. You could then set the FC7, which is directly connected to the Genos, so that only the STYLE volume is controlled.


I recommend that you first test the solution 1) I described at the beginning of this post (overall volume via a stereo volume pedal plus Right parts controlled via an FC7).


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 11:37:04 PM by overover »
Everyone always said: "This is not possible!" - Then someone came and ... just did it!
 

Re: Style volume control with foot pedal
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2021, 12:10:28 AM »
Agreed, Chris and very interesting post.

I forgot to mention that I must route my style Toms and Kick to Sub Out 1, and then to a mixer channel where I can control the levels of these two instruments because they are set to totally stupid levels on the Genos, likely to satisfy the young "bass and thumpy music" fanatics of today.

Yamaha needs to realize that those two instruments when played through professional sound equipment - even their own speakers and amps - is totally OUT OF BALANCE!! What were they thinking? Other than that, they did well with the balance in general.

When I add a fill without routing those two instruments to a controllable channel, my Bose L1 Compacts will cave the eye sockets in of the seniors I play for! When I use my sub, it becomes a weapon. Yamaha really dropped the ball on that one. It would be nice if all kits had mixer channels for each drum instrument.
 

Offline sunny

Re: Style volume control with foot pedal
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2021, 05:10:22 PM »
Hi Sunny,

It is not that easy to technically realize your wish to control the Style volume and the Right Voice volume on the Genos via two separate PEDALS.

I had already written that I only control the RIGHT parts with the FC7 pedal. I can only agree with Lee's last post: If you have made the basic adjustments in your Registrations in advance (suitable volume for Style, Multi Pad, MIDI / Audio Song and the Right Voices a little louder than required so that you still have some reserve with the FC7), In my opinion, you don't need an extra pedal for the Style volume. If necessary, you can easily readjust the Master volume and adjust the Right volumes again with the FC7.


1) A relatively simple solution for you would be to insert a stereo volume pedal between the Audio outputs (L/R) and the external mixer / sound system, e.g. something like this:
>>> https://www.thomann.de/gb/korg_xvp_20.htm

With this you can then easily control the overall volume, and with the FC7 you can additionally control the Right parts. I myself have played in the manner described for many years when I have performed solo. With my right foot I operated the volume pedal for the overall volume and with my left foot I operated the FC7 for the Right parts. At some point the effort became too much for me, so I left out the pedal for the overall volume. I still control the volume of the Right parts, i.e. the FC7, with my left foot. ;)


2) Another option would be to route all Style parts to two SUB Outputs and insert a stereo volume pedal into the Audio cables to the external mixer. However, this has the disadvantage that the Style sound changes because only INSERT effects are output at the SUB Outs, but not the SYSTEM effects (Chorus & Reverb effect blocks, and the Variation effect block if set to "System").


3) Controlling the entire STYLE volume externally via MIDI is, as already mentioned, relatively difficult, because, as far as I know, the parameter "Volume(Style) Offset" cannot be controlled via Continuous Controller (CC) messages on only ONE single MIDI channel. This is also not possible under "MIDI > External Controller". There you can work with up to five different controller numbers (CC#7, 1, 2, 3, 4), each of which is used to send internal Volume (= CC#7) or Expression (= CC#11) commands, but you can only control one (of the 8⁣) Style parts with one CC number.

There are "Expression Pedal to MIDI" converter boxes that you can connect an FC7 pedal to, e.g. something like this:
>>> https://www.thomann.de/gb/midi_solutions_pedal_to_midi_converter.htm
  or
>>> https://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpression.php
Attention: only the MIDI Expression "iO" (which has 4 pedal inputs) has a DIN MIDI output!

In addition, there are of course independent MIDI Expression Pedals, e.g .:
>>> https://beatbars.com/en/midi-expression-pedal.html

BUT: None of these devices can obviously send identical controller messages on 8 different MIDI channels at the same time.

You COULD now switch another device in between, e.g. a MIDI Event Processor ...
>>> https://www.thomann.de/gb/midi_solutions_event_processor.htm

... or an iPhone/iPad (with a corresponding MIDI interface) on which a corresponding MIDI routing app is running. But in my opinion, all of this is far too complicated and not necessary.


4)
I would like to briefly describe one last option: You can select the "Expression" function for CC#7 in "MIDI > External Controller" on the Genos and set the Part to "Keyboard". On the set MIDI Port (e.g. MIDI B) and MIDI channel (e.g. Ch 1) you can then control the volume of all Keyboard parts simultaneously with incoming CC#7 messages. However, the Right parts AND also the Left part are probably affected here.

As a pedal for this option you could use an FC7 in connection with a "Pedal to MIDI" converter box, or an independent MIDI expression pedal (as mentioned above), or e.g. a Behringer FCB1010. You could then set the FC7, which is directly connected to the Genos, so that only the STYLE volume is controlled.


I recommend that you first test the solution 1) I described at the beginning of this post (overall volume via a stereo volume pedal plus Right parts controlled via an FC7).


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

Hi Chris,
Thanks for giving full information. I tried 1st method by using Behringer FCV100  stereo volume pedal and FC7 . The sound is good but i need to balance both pedals, If the stereo pedal is set to low volume automatically the R1+R2+r3 voices which are controlled by FC7 pedal also decreases.

I tried 2nd method but the i am missing system effects when sub outs are used. I don't know why Yamaha is not allowing using system effects through Sub outputs.

I feel 3rd method will solve my problem using a MIDI device. I need to control Style volume (i.e) default Slider1 volume only.  Is MIDI Solutions Pedal Controller with FC7 control style volume ?
http://www.midisolutions.com/prodped.htm

Thank You,
Sunny
« Last Edit: July 14, 2021, 06:19:33 PM by sunny »
 

Offline ugawoga

Re: Style volume control with foot pedal
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2021, 10:41:40 PM »
Hi

You can assign a slider for style volume and a lot of other things 8)
Genos, I7 computer 32 gig ram, Focusrite 6i6, Cubase controller, Focal Alpha Monitors, Yamaha DXR8 Speakers
Cubase 10, Sonarworks, Izotope.  Sampletank, Arturia and Korg software.  Now IK Mixbox