Author Topic: It is possible to disable the one key chord on the ew410 ?  (Read 2178 times)

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Offline Argento

It is possible to disable the one key chord on the ew410 ?
« on: February 09, 2021, 05:50:35 AM »
Hello everybody!

It's possible to disable the auto-chord , or "one key chord" , i didn't found anything on the manual, if i use the ACMP function (for base rythms/chords), no matter what , the one key takes predence, (thats was a function even my 40 years old by now Yamaha Electone has "ABC" was the one key rythm, if i dont forgot. and with "abc" disabled , you must use the 3/4 fingers method.

Can't  find that option in any place, even searching the internet, not for the PSR-E463/EW410 at least :(

Thanks in advance
Alvaro
Yamaha PSR-EW410
 

Offline SciNote

Re: It is possible to disable the one key chord on the ew410 ?
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2021, 08:15:07 AM »
So, my first question would be, what are you trying to accomplish?

I ask this because you want to disable the "one finger chord", but then you apparently do not want to play 3 or 4 note chords, so I'm just trying to get some clarification as to what you are wanting to do with your accompaniment.

With that said, here is some information that may help.  Please keep in mind that I have an older PSR-E433, but I believe the auto accompaniment on the EW410 works the same way...

With the auto accompaniment switched on, then the preprogrammed musical background, or auto accompaniment, is automatically determined by the notes you play on the left side of the keyboard.  By that, I mean that you do not have to select whether you want an automatic "fingered mode" or a "one-finger mode" -- it's determined automatically by the keyboard by the notes that you play.

So, as an example, with auto accompaniment switched on, if you just play a single C on the left part of the keyboard, then the keyboard will assume "one-finger mode", and will play a full orchestral background based on a full C-major chord.  However, if you play C, E, and G together (the notes of a C major chord) on the left part of the keyboard, then the keyboard will see that you are, indeed, playing a full C major chord, and it will still play that same orchestral background based on a full C-major chord.

Going beyond that, the "one-finger mode" is designed to play a minor chord if you play the note of the chord and the nearest black key below that note (so in this case, it is not really "one-finger" but instead, two fingers).  So, if you play a C and the closest Bb below that C together (with auto accompaniment switched on), you will get a background based on a full C minor chord.  And, you will also get that same background if you play the actual notes of a C minor chord on the left part of the keyboard, which would be C, Eb, and G (and in any order/inversion, as long as all the notes are played on the left auto accompaniment part of the keyboard).  In other words, the auto accompaniment of this keyboard is smart enough to know if you are just playing a single note or cluster of notes that activates the "single-finger mode" or easy-play mode chords, or if you are playing the actual notes of the chord.  When you play the actual notes of the chord, the auto accompaniment of this keyboard will recognize major, minor, 7th, and minor-7th chords and play full, orchestral backgrounds based on those chords.

There is also a sort of "hybrid mode".  With this, you turn on the split voice -- this allows you to play a different sound on the left side of the keyboard than the sound you play on the right side.  For example, you can have the main voice be piano, and the split voice be a guitar, so that the notes you play on your right hand will be a piano, and the notes you play on the left hand will be a guitar.  Now, with split mode on, you can also turn on auto accompaniment, and now when you play the notes on your left hand to get the full orchestral background in the way that I described above, you will also get the sound of the split voice (in this example, the guitar) based on the notes you are playing.  And what is really cool about this is that, with the auto accompaniment on and split voice engaged, when you do the "single finger mode" chords, the keyboard will automatically not only play its preprogrammed background based on the chord, but will also play all the notes of the chord with your split voice (the guitar, in this case), as well.  So that, if you play a C note, not only will you get the preprogrammed background based on the full C major chord, but the keyboard will also play a full C major chord with that guitar sound, as well.

The benefit of this is that you can add rhythmic chords with the split-voice sound of your choice to go along with the preprogrammed orchestral background that the auto accompaniment plays with the style.  So, with the example I just said, where you play a single C note and get the automatic preprogrammed accompaniment with that C chord, if you rhythmically or repeatedly hit that C note, you will also get your guitar sound repeating every time you hit that C note, while the automatic accompaniment continues to play in the background.  And, of course, this also works if you are actually playing the chord: In this example, if you play the actual notes of a C chord rhythmically and repeatedly, you'll hear the guitar sound each time you hit the chord while the preprogrammed orchestral accompaniment continues to play in the background.  This gives you some control over the background you are playing, even when you are using the auto accompaniment.

If you do this, you'll likely want to raise the octave of the split voice by 1 or 2 octaves so that the split-voice chords generated by the auto accompaniment are not low and "muddy" sounding.

Now, if instead, you do not want the auto accompaniment to play any of these preprogrammed orchestral backgrounds, you can switch auto accompaniment off.  But in this case, it will still play the drum rhythms when you select and turn on a style.  And in this case, the keyboard will just simply play whatever notes you play on it, like a piano, regardless of where on the keyboard or which part of the keyboard you play those notes.  So, with the auto accompaniment switched off, the style will play the drums, but it will not fill in automatic chords, backgrounds, and bass lines like it does when the auto accompaniment is switched on.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2021, 08:37:12 AM by SciNote »
Bob
Current: Yamaha PSR-E433, Roland GAIA SH-01, Casio CDP-200R, Casio MT-68 (wired to bass pedals)
Past: Yamaha PSR-520, PSR-510, PSR-500, DX-7, D-80 home organ, and a few Casios
 
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Offline overover

Re: It is possible to disable the one key chord on the ew410 ?
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2021, 10:18:36 AM »
... It's possible to disable the auto-chord , or "one key chord" , i didn't found anything on the manual, ...

Hi Argento,

as can be seen from the specifications of the PSR-EW410, the chord fingering is permanently set to "Multi Finger". The fingering cannot be set to different modes here, as is usual with larger models (e.g. Multi Finger, Fingered, Fingered On Bass, AI Fingered). (See also the attached picture.)


The "Multi Finger" mode combines both "Fingered" and "Easy Chord" modes. This means you can play a chord to control the auto accompaniment either using 3, 4 or 5 notes, or you can play major chords by using only one finger and minor, dominant seventh and minor seventh chords by using only two fingers.

Please refer to the EW410 Owner's Manual, page 63 ("Chord Types for Style Playback"):
>>> https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/portable_keyboards/psr-ew410/downloads.html#product-tabs.


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: February 09, 2021, 10:20:59 AM by overover »
Everyone always said: "This is not possible!" - Then someone came and ... just did it!
 
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Offline Argento

Re: It is possible to disable the one key chord on the ew410 ?
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2021, 04:07:38 PM »
So, my first question would be, what are you trying to accomplish?

[...]

Sorry for the misunderstanding , my English, besides technical one (IT guy here) , is SO-SO  :-\

What i want to accomplish is to disable for good the "one finger" "easy" method , and use only the "hard" full fingers chords exclusivelly , ex: C mayor= C E G keys.
I know , technology changes (for good) and build quality decreases (for bad) as the year passes, but i still remember when i started to learn in that yamaha organ my father bought , exactly like this one:



i remember how hard was to me to pass from "automatic one finger chord" (that green key on the front, vertical panel , top left , on the photo" , to the fully fledged 3/4 fingers chord mode (the red button ro the right of the green one, if i remember well)

I dont want to make the same "mistake" again :) ... i know tech changes, and now the one finger chord, is "smart" enough to cully simulate the 3 finger chord :) , but you know , old fart (54 over my shoulders here), and , for some things i still prefer the "old" methods (Ex, i still prefer analog "steam" gauges on the car dash, instead of the new fancy displays they have some cars now (*not in my country)

****!, they changed even the note names by now... all the tutorials i see over the internet are refering to the notes as C-D-E, etc and we all used Do-Re-Mi, etc at those times (at least here) , must learn again those new names too!! ... lol

Your explanation on the chord finger method of the keyboard its superb, im reading the manual, off course, (while i work, and between a gazillion other things (learning all this "new" things to me too), but in some things the manual is not too much clear about some functions (too few (if at all) examples of use!

Thanks for your lenghty and pretty clear explanation on how the chording works on these keyboards!, superb work!!!!!!

Thanks Bob!!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2021, 04:12:44 PM by Argento »
Alvaro
Yamaha PSR-EW410
 

Offline Fred Smith

Re: It is possible to disable the one key chord on the ew410 ?
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2021, 04:11:27 PM »
Sorry for the misunderstanding , my English, besides technical one (IT guy here) , is SO-SO  :-\

What i want to accomplish is to disable for good the "one finger" "easy" method , and use only the "hard" full fingers chords exclusivelly , ex: C mayor= C E G keys.
I know , technology changes (for good) and build quality decreases (for bad) as the year passes, but i still remember when i started to learn in that yamaha organ my father bought , exactly like this one:


As stated by Chris, you can't change the chord fingering on your instrument. You would need to upgrade to get what you want.

Cheers,
Fred
Fred Smith,
Saskatoon, SK
Sun Lakes, AZ
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Offline Argento

Re: It is possible to disable the one key chord on the ew410 ?
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2021, 04:24:36 PM »
Hi Argento,

as can be seen from the specifications of the PSR-EW410

[.....]

Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris


Yeah, i see that!!! thanks Chris , i wonder why Yamaha dont added that (disable one finger chords) , it's only a software option (and pretty simple to do, i presume)

im screwed now then...  in here (Argentina) its not like the US, (by any means, 99.9% of the time for bad) that you can go with the item you bought to the store and ask for a refund , of for a change for another product... in here, you bought something, (in special an expensive item like this one), and you keep it forever , no exchanges , returns , or wathever, off course you have the one year warranty, but they repair it on the official Yamaha service, the store you bough it , cleans their hands off from all that situation.
Its a pretty expensive piece of hardware here, with the pathethic incomes we have (like in many other 3rd countries of the world), the price of the PSR-EW410 its almost 4 months of minimum salary (the complete salary)... so not cheap at all!!

Im happy with the keyboard, full of features, sounds great, can do music with the computer too (a new thing to me too) ...

Thanksagain Chris
Alvaro
Yamaha PSR-EW410
 

Offline SciNote

Re: It is possible to disable the one key chord on the ew410 ?
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2021, 05:05:36 PM »
Okay, so that makes sense.  So, you're not screwed, and you don't need to upgrade your keyboard.  If you want the full automatic orchestral background, but you want to play the real chords instead of single-finger chords, you just turn on the auto accompaniment, and then play the real chords.  It will recognize any major, minor, 7th, and minor-7th chords you play and give you a full orchestral background.  But you must play those chords.  If you try to do something like play a bass line or melodic counterpoint one note at a time with your left hand, the keyboard will automatically think you want single-finger chords and play full chord backgrounds that change with each note you play.

If, however, you don't want any automatic background (other than drums) and just want the keyboard to sound only the notes that you play, then just turn auto accompaniment off and play what you want.  You can even turn on split voice so that what you play with your left hand will have a different sound than your right hand melody.
Bob
Current: Yamaha PSR-E433, Roland GAIA SH-01, Casio CDP-200R, Casio MT-68 (wired to bass pedals)
Past: Yamaha PSR-520, PSR-510, PSR-500, DX-7, D-80 home organ, and a few Casios
 
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Offline Argento

Re: It is possible to disable the one key chord on the ew410 ?
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2021, 05:57:38 PM »
As stated by Chris, you can't change the chord fingering on your instrument. You would need to upgrade to get what you want.

Cheers,
Fred

Yes Fred, im screwed now  , can't upgrade now, (and with the prices of the tech here in Argentina), can't pay any new keyboard anytime soon (and i have a lot of things to learn too) , XD

Thanks for your response Fred!
Alvaro
Yamaha PSR-EW410
 

Offline overover

Re: It is possible to disable the one key chord on the ew410 ?
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2021, 07:11:56 PM »
Hi Argento,

I do not really understand your problem: If you play with automatic accompaniment (ACMP), it is not a disadvantage if the "Multi Finger" is permanently set. (As far as I know, this is the case with all PSR-E and PSR-EW models.) Just play the control chords with at least 3 notes if you don't want the keyboard to use the "Easy Chord" method, and that's it. :)

The PSR-E and EW models have a completely different operating system than e.g. PSR-S, PSR-SX, Tyros models or Genos. With the latter you have many different setting options for the chord fingering, in addition to "Multi Fingered" e.g. also Fingered, AI Fingered (AI means "Artificial Intelligence"), Fingered On Bass, Full Keyboard etc. You can also use the Upper section to control the ACMP (and playing a manual bass if desired) with such mid class or top class models.

But on E or EW models, you have to live with the fact that certain features are not available or certain operating steps are more cumbersome than with larger / more expensive models.

Basically, I think the EW410 is a well-equipped keyboard for this price range, and I don't know of any other user who has "complained" about the fixed "Multi Finger" mode with PSR-E  / EW models (because you can always play the chords "fingered" if desired).

Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: February 09, 2021, 07:23:50 PM by overover »
Everyone always said: "This is not possible!" - Then someone came and ... just did it!
 
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Offline SciNote

Re: It is possible to disable the one key chord on the ew410 ?
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2021, 07:31:48 PM »
Now that I think of it, the auto accompaniment may actually recognize many more types of chords than just major, minor, 7th, and minor-7th when you play real chords.  I'm out and about right now.  I'll check this on my E433 later.
Bob
Current: Yamaha PSR-E433, Roland GAIA SH-01, Casio CDP-200R, Casio MT-68 (wired to bass pedals)
Past: Yamaha PSR-520, PSR-510, PSR-500, DX-7, D-80 home organ, and a few Casios
 
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Offline Argento

Re: It is possible to disable the one key chord on the ew410 ?
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2021, 07:49:33 PM »
Hi Argento,
[...]

Maybe its something im doing wrong !! lol///

Ex: im doing a auto chord with fills (ACMP ON)  , Sync start on , or rythm on (so when i do a simple  C (Do) chord with the bass, drums,etc , do all the fills well (no matter if i do a single finger C, or the 3 C-E-G one) , if i change it to a F(Fa) chord, the note (frequency in Hzl) should go high (Upper F, not lower one on the pentagram), and dont matter what, the automathic thingie goes for the lower one on the pentagram... (lower frequency F).... i neiter can  make the C chord go to lower C en the pentagram, i want my F chord (acconpainment) at a highter frequency in Hz that my C one, not lower !!! lol

Thanks Chris!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2021, 07:52:37 PM by Argento »
Alvaro
Yamaha PSR-EW410
 

Offline Argento

Re: It is possible to disable the one key chord on the ew410 ?
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2021, 07:58:08 PM »
Continue with my previous explanation , on my old duotone, i can do, ex a C auto aconppainment chord , and if i want a "lower" F chord, i move my left hand to the left, a do a lower freq. F chord, or move my left hand to the right, a do a Highter freq. F chord....  can't do that (i didnt found a way) on the W410, sadly, prob. my fault.

This one is the better one i can afford, a genos sells for the same price here that a brand new small car XD
Alvaro
Yamaha PSR-EW410
 

Offline overover

Re: It is possible to disable the one key chord on the ew410 ?
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2021, 08:50:02 PM »
Hi Argento,

the range in which a certain Style Part (e.g. the bass) plays does NOT depend on the octave position or in which chord inversion you are playing a chord (and also not whether you are playing the chord completely (3 or more notes ) or if you use the "Easy Chord" fingering method.

For example, if you go from C major to F major, the F bass can either sound LOWER than the C bass before or HIGHER. This is not due to the fingering used, but to the programming of each individual style. (This also applies to larger / more expensive models.)

You cannot change anything here directly on the EW410, and editing only the MIDI note events in the style file (e.g. using a PC program such as "Mixmaster" or a DAW such as "Cubase") would only help to a limited extent. Responsible for setting the tonal range of each style part includes the parameters "NTT / NTR" (Note Transposition Table / Note Transposition Rule) as well as "High Key", "Note Limit Low" and "Note Limit High". These settings can either be made in "Style Creator "of larger models (from PSR-S) or in a special CASM editor program on the PC.

I hope my remarks bring some "light into the dark" ...


Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: February 09, 2021, 08:55:50 PM by overover »
Everyone always said: "This is not possible!" - Then someone came and ... just did it!
 
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Offline SciNote

Re: It is possible to disable the one key chord on the ew410 ?
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2021, 09:06:21 PM »
Okay, so yes, that is the case.  When auto accompaniment is switched on, and then you play a particular chord, when the keyboard plays its full orchestral background, that background is going to be in the same register/octave/inversion no matter how you finger the actual chord that you are playing or what octave you are playing it in.  However, if you do the "hybrid mode" that I wrote about above, and switch on the split voice, the split voice WILL sound with the exact notes that you play in the split voice that you select (with the exception being if you just play a single note or other pattern of notes recognized by the "single finger" or easy-play mode -- in that case, the keyboard will choose and play a whole chord -- even with the split voice --- based on the easy-play notes that you play).

So, you could switch on auto accompaniment, then turn  on split voice, then select, say, a brass voice for the split voice.  Then, with the style on and running, you can play chords rhythmically with your left hand, and while the auto accompaniment will still play its background in a fixed octave and inversion, the split voice (the brass sound, in this example), will sound the notes you are playing, in the octave and inversion that you are playing them.

Like I mentioned above, you'd likely want to bump up your split voice by 1 or (more likely) 2 octaves so that the split-voice chords are not muddy-sounding in a deep bass register.

And... to follow up on my previous post -- When you do play real chords with the auto accompaniment, then it will recognize and play an orchestral background on a variety of chords.  I tried it on my E433 and it recognized 6th, minor-6th, m7b5, sus 2, sus 4, 7 sus 4, and major add-9 chords!  There could be more!  Some of them have to be in the root position because they otherwise are the same notes as other chords -- for example, it will only recognize C6 when played in root position -- any other inversion will get you an Am7, as both chords have the exact same notes -- only the bass note really makes the difference in how it sounds.  But when you play real chords with the auto accompaniment, you clearly are NOT limited to just major, minor, 7th, and minor 7th chords!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2021, 09:08:19 PM by SciNote »
Bob
Current: Yamaha PSR-E433, Roland GAIA SH-01, Casio CDP-200R, Casio MT-68 (wired to bass pedals)
Past: Yamaha PSR-520, PSR-510, PSR-500, DX-7, D-80 home organ, and a few Casios
 
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Offline Argento

Re: It is possible to disable the one key chord on the ew410 ?
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2021, 10:18:05 PM »
For example, if you go from C major to F major, the F bass can either sound LOWER than the C bass before or HIGHER. This is not due to the fingering used, but to the programming of each individual style. (This also applies to larger / more expensive models.)

Ohh (i'm stunned), so, if i want to use ACMP , and want ex: a F chord higther than the C one, must search for an style that has that embedded (didnt know that) ... its all the same with all brands? (i was about to but a Korg Ka-50L, but decided for the Yamaha, base on my previous experience with the brand)

I hope my remarks bring some "light into the dark" ...

Oh yes!!, i was getting Crazy with  that lower/highter chord that i can't choose wich one, and can't find anything on the internet about that !! ... lol, im too old school!! :)
will never figure that for my own Chris (style based chords)  thanks!!

Now will use Bob's method XD
Alvaro
Yamaha PSR-EW410
 

Offline Argento

Re: It is possible to disable the one key chord on the ew410 ?
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2021, 10:29:44 PM »
However, if you do the "hybrid mode" that I wrote about above...
Like I mentioned above, you'd likely want to bump up your split voice by 1 or (more likely) 2 octaves so that the split-voice chords are not muddy-sounding in a deep bass register.

Thanks Bob, yes! will use that hybrid method if needed, like i said to Chris, thanks for your help, i will never figure that out without your help guys!,
Was unthinkering for me , that cant change chords octave on this modern keyboard, when i did that on that 40 years old (or more) Yamaha XD


Now a gazillion things to learn left... and off course practice ..practice and more practice!!!

Thanks!!!

PS: The PC DAW is another theme... never used one of those in my life (for what i see they're like a non linear video editor (like Vegas) that i used to some extention a couple of years ago..
For now i did get over the internet , Ableton live, for what i read  around, is the reccomended one for using during perfoming, that i think that will be the thing i will do (i dont think about music compositing, or complicated editing)
Alvaro
Yamaha PSR-EW410
 

Offline overover

Re: It is possible to disable the one key chord on the ew410 ?
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2021, 11:19:16 PM »
Hi Argento,

everything I've described so far is all about the sound of the automatic accompaniment. Bob, on the other hand, (also) talks about playing the Left Voice at the same time as the control chords for the automatic accompaniment.

Unfortunately, I don't know whether you can play the Left Voice (= Split Voice) on the EW410 when ACMP is switched on. With larger models this is not a problem, but the EW410 Owner's Manual says on page 26:

"With this operation [setting ACMP to ON], the area of ​​the keyboard to the left of the Split Point becomes the" Auto Accompaniment area "and is used only for specifying the chords. The rhythm part as well as the bass and chord accompaniment play back when you play chords. "

If I understand this correctly, you cannot play the Left Voice (Split Voice) at the same time with this model when ACMP is switched on.


P.S.
If you have ACMP switched ON and the Style is STOPPED (and Sync Start is switched off), you will hear a chord sound when you play a chord with your left hand. This is called "Stop Accompaniment". The Manual says on page 62:

"If you press the [STYLE] button, press the [ACMP ON / OFF] button to turn ACMP on (the ACMP icon appears), and play the chord in the Auto Accompaniment area of ​​the keyboard (with SYNC START off), the chord sound will be heard without Style playback. This is referred to as "Stop Accompaniment". The specified chord will be shown in the display, and affects the Harmony function (page 22). "

To the best of my knowledge, you cannot really change the octave setting of the chords heard in this "Stop Accompaniment" mode.


Best regards,
Chris
« Last Edit: February 09, 2021, 11:31:35 PM by overover »
Everyone always said: "This is not possible!" - Then someone came and ... just did it!
 
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Offline Argento

Re: It is possible to disable the one key chord on the ew410 ?
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2021, 11:40:59 PM »
Yes Cris, will try the different methods first ending (and re-reading) the manual in , and will try all the things/tips you and bob give to me in front of the keyboard (the music one, not the computer one !! lol), working atm :(
Alvaro
Yamaha PSR-EW410
 

Offline SciNote

Re: It is possible to disable the one key chord on the ew410 ?
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2021, 01:10:34 AM »
With regard to having the split voice sound at the same time that auto accompaniment is on, this may not be an "official feature", but it can definitely be done on my PSR-E433 -- I was just experimenting with it today because of this thread.  With the PSR-E433 manual I found online, I found a similar quote...

"When a Style is selected and ACMP is on, the notes
played to the left of the Split Point are used to specify
the chord for Style playback."

It leaves out the word "only", which is stated in the quote above for the EW410 manual.  But nowhere in the E433 manual did I see where it specifically says that playing split voice and auto-accompaniment together CAN be done, either.  But it can!

Very strange -- almost like an "Easter egg" feature.  Maybe they did take it out of the E463/EW410 -- I wish this post appeared earlier -- I was just at a music store a few hours ago and there was an E463 there!  I would've checked it out!

With regards to the "stop accompaniment" -- I think this is how I discovered this in the first place.  A few years ago, someone posted that on their E400 series keyboard (I forget which one), that when auto accompaniment was on but the style was not running, playing a left hand chord just got this organ-type tone, and he (or she) was wondering if it could be changed.  I think the general consensus was that it could not be changed -- If auto accompaniment is switched on, but the style is stopped, the left hand chord will always be that organ-style drone with a bass note.  And I think I was trying different things to see if there was a way to get a different sound, and somewhere in the process I was either told or I discovered that the split voice will sound if it is switched on and the auto accompaniment is on.

Now, with all that said, I just experimented with that again, and this is weird!  On my E433, if auto accompaniment is switched on, but the style is not running, then yes, you get this organ type drone, with a bass note, when you play a chord -- either easy-play style (1-finger) or real chords -- though I see now that it sounds more like strings, not an organ.  But when split voice is turned on, you actually get the split voice, along with the bass note, but NOT the strings!  And, the split voice WILL follow the same rules for the easy-play chords if you only hit one note (or combination of easy-play notes) -- for example, if you hit just a C, you'll get a full C major chord with the split voice.  And yes, you can change the octave of the split voice in this situation (though I do not believe that the octave can be changed for the default strings-type sound that is played if split voice is off).  So it looks like you CAN use the split voice to change the tone of the chords played when the auto accompaniment is switched on but the style is not running!

But when I then started the style, it did as I described above -- played the automatic orchestral background based on the notes/chords being played with the left hand, and added the split voice and would play the split voice each time the chord is actually hit on the keyboard.

Did they take this away from the E463/EW410?  I would doubt it, but I have seen Yamaha do strange things before concerning removing features from newer keyboards that the older ones had (Dual left-hand voices, anyone?  Go all the way back to 1993's PSR-510 for that!).

For Argento, I would say to give this a try and let us know what you find out!  I'm curious now!
« Last Edit: February 10, 2021, 01:18:50 AM by SciNote »
Bob
Current: Yamaha PSR-E433, Roland GAIA SH-01, Casio CDP-200R, Casio MT-68 (wired to bass pedals)
Past: Yamaha PSR-520, PSR-510, PSR-500, DX-7, D-80 home organ, and a few Casios
 
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Offline overover

Re: It is possible to disable the one key chord on the ew410 ?
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2021, 01:48:55 AM »
Thank you for your detailed feedback, Bob! :)


Best regards,
Chris
Everyone always said: "This is not possible!" - Then someone came and ... just did it!
 

Offline Argento

Re: It is possible to disable the one key chord on the ew410 ?
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2021, 02:56:47 AM »
Tried a little with the keyboard, its a really strange behavior (from my point of view), and nowhere near of what i expected when i bought the keyboard!! lol
Tested with:
Main Voice Piano Grand Live (voice 001)
Split Voice: FunkyBrass (voice 131)  (i wanted nothing even arminic between them to do the tests  ;D
Rythm: 60s Rock (020)

ACMP OFF / SPLIT OFF = as spected, full octave range, same main instrument Piano

ACMP OFF / SPLIT ON = too, as spected, full octave range, from low to high , on the left hand (Funky), and on the right one (Piano)

ACMP ON / SPLIT OFF = NO SYNC Start, no rythm playing, 1 key C, a pipe organ/or cello like Chord (CEG notes, i think) , as you touch a second key (or 3rd), the sound degraded to a "mudded" like one, even if you touch C on diffierent octaves at the same time), the notes don't do a full range from low to high, but do a loop back to the same octave freq (from C to C), both sounds the same. same behavior that with rythms running, but i dont know from where that pipe organ/chello comes from?

ACMP ON / SPLIT OFF = SYNC start on / rythm running, expected behavior, One/Multi key (they're the same/or sounds exactly the same) ex: C alone , or CEG chord, only 1 octave range on the rythms, the instrument(s) are 60sRock one, in this case an electric guitar (a little "heavy", that 60s rock on the guitar, to my taste, but...) ... normal behavior... that "organ" like sound , can't be found anywhere??

ACMP ON / SPLIT ON = Sync Start off, appears to be the same as Split ON/acmp OFF, but.. no full range from low/left, to high/right (on the split point), only one octave range on that Funky. (both C sounds exactly the same, but when you press both at the same time they do a "lower" on the scale sound, like C, but one octave lower (same with the rest of the Keys (both As, = A (i think) on a lower octave .... not expected behavior (bug/ and/or undocumented feature)

ACMP ON / SPLIT ON = Sync Start ON, same as sync start off, but this time with instruments running on the backround, can make chords with the funky, dont follow the rythm, only one octave range (both Cs sound exzctly the same... same "both Cs" extrange behavior ??!!

I think i cover all the possibilities here?
Alvaro
Yamaha PSR-EW410
 

Offline SciNote

Re: It is possible to disable the one key chord on the ew410 ?
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2021, 04:43:51 AM »
This sounds almost exactly like I would have expected, based on my E433.  That "organ/cello" like sound you're getting when you have ACMP on but the style not running are the strings drone chords I described on my post above.  You can't see where it's coming from because it is a fixed, preprogrammed, default sound that is set to play when the ACMP is on, split is off, and the style is not running.

As expected, it sounds like you are getting the split voice (the Funky Brass) when you have the ACMP on and the split on, whether the style is running or not.  And just how you said that you can make chords with the Funky Brass that do not follow the rhythm -- that is exactly what I would expect.  That's what I mean when I say that, when you have ACMP and split on at the same time, the split voice will sound as you hit the keys/chord with your left hand -- The split voice chords just sound the moment you hit the keys, regardless of the timing of the rhythm/style.  It is up to you, the player, to hit those chords in a desired rhythm to go with the song you are playing, and that is how you use this "hybrid feature" to personalize the background orchestration of the song you are playing.

The only thing that seems unexpected to me is that you seem to be saying that the split voice (Funky Brass) is staying in the same octave, regardless where on the left part of the keyboard you are playing your chords.  Now, is that with single-finger/easy play chords?  If so, then yes, when the keyboard sees you playing an easy play chord, it will generate the actual chord with the split voice (with both ACMP and split voice on), and just like we discussed earlier with the full automatic orchestration always being in the same octave and inversions, the same is also true with the split voice when the keyboard is generating full chords from the easy play feature.

But try this... With ACMP on and split on, play a full, real chord -- like a simple C chord of the notes C, E, and G -- on the left part of the keyboard.  Then try playing it in different octaves and inversions (making sure none of the notes go above the split point), and I bet you will hear the split voice (Funky Brass in your example) sounding the exact notes you are playing.  And again, if you haven't done so, you may want to raise that split voice an octave or two so that you can hear it more clearly.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2021, 04:50:20 AM by SciNote »
Bob
Current: Yamaha PSR-E433, Roland GAIA SH-01, Casio CDP-200R, Casio MT-68 (wired to bass pedals)
Past: Yamaha PSR-520, PSR-510, PSR-500, DX-7, D-80 home organ, and a few Casios
 
The following users thanked this post: Argento

Offline Argento

Re: It is possible to disable the one key chord on the ew410 ?
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2021, 03:25:50 PM »
This sounds almost exactly like I would have expected, based on my E433.  That "organ/cello" like sound you're getting when you have ACMP on but the style not running are the strings drone chords I described on my post above.  You can't see where it's coming from because it is a fixed, preprogrammed, default sound that is set to play when the ACMP is on, split is off, and the style is not running.

Ohh that was that i didn't understand fully what you where referring to!!! lol
(I will save this fost for future reference too (im still learning the function of the keyboard)

The only thing that seems unexpected to me is that you seem to be saying that the split voice (Funky Brass) is staying in the same octave,
(.......)
 Then try playing it in different octaves and inversions (making sure none of the notes go above the split point), and I bet you will hear the split voice (Funky Brass in your example) sounding the exact notes you are playing.  And again, if you haven't done so, you may want to raise that split voice an octave or two so that you can hear it more clearly.

Yeah Bob, you're a genius!, When using ONE KEY chords the octave repeats itself on the same freq., BUT if i use FULL 3 finger chords the Chords don't repeat on the same freq (as i expected from the beginning), my mistake was making one finger chords on the tests.

I wonder why Yamaha don't enable an option to disable the "easy" 1 finger ACMP , and let use the full range melodic chords on the left hand ... i think that can't be too much complicated, only a single bit of ram to store that True/false on finger option, and maybe 2 lines of code to do a "IF one_finger=true THEN ... ELSE .. "
To me its a design desition (of the sales department) not a technical one... if you put more features on a "lower" level instrument, you don't get the incentive to buy a better (and more expensive one)... :)  , In here the Genos price is almost 10000 USD, with salaries around 200 USD (for the majority of the population), you need to work for 4 years (and don't expend a single dime) to buy that beast lol

Thanks for the help Bob & Chris!!!, can't resolve that from myself, thats for sure!
Alvaro
Yamaha PSR-EW410